Art vs. Narrative

There should be both, and both of quality, to make a good comic. A comic without art (or good art, that is consistant with what is being told) is garbage; you may as well just have a book. Same with a comic without story...you may as well just paint a single picture.

A comic needs both art and story to make it a good comic book.

That said, I feel that most comics nowadays generally are terrible. The mainstream comics (produced by the big two) are nothing new. Plus for the most part, very inconsistant. Switching artists and writers every few issues leads to the comic degrading because noone can agree on anything from one story to the next.

For the most part, the art is terrible, barring a few exceptions, and storylines are atrocious. The Ultimate comics are a great example of terrible stories. If Marvel (or any of them really...I'm just picking one right now)would actually hire people with talent, or who would actually produce with talent, maybe comics could turn around.

Sure, there are well drawn comics out there. Look at most Top Cow comics. However, when your mainstream comics are crap, it doesn't help promote the business.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I bought Image comics (still do, as a matter of fact), back when they were released. Most people generally look at them as being "crap". I like the stories, find them fun, but most of all the art was amazing, light-years ahead of anything in the big two. The writing was lacking, but the art was great, and is what sold the books.

It is true that either one can save the other if it's lacking in one area or another, but I do believe that both are needed for a comic book. To make a good comic, both are needed in spades. For art to be good, it has to show talent (proper proportions, perspective, technique), it has to make sense and be easily identifyable (look at the Ultimate Sinister Six mini. Terrible! If you looked at the villains faces, they were all virtually identical. You couldn't tell them apart in the flurry of dialogue without careful consideration, barring immediately identifyable features like Doc Oc's goggles. Those should not be needed to tell one person from another!), and it has to be consistant (a comic should not be started by one person, let's say Mark Texiera, who can do a wicked Ghost Rider or Union, then switch off to, say Carlos Pacheco or even worse, switch to different artists within a single issue). It makes the comic as a series far worse. Some art also looks good depending on the series it's being done for. A cartoony, anime-style Ghost Rider would definately just not look right. The art would suit the mood of the comic at all, whether it was good art in and of itself.

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Originally Posted by acid

Ultimate Spider-Man is still fan-fucking-tastic after 90 issues. And Ultimates 2 is easily one of the best comic arcs I've read in years.

And I find both generally to be as boring as shit. Just not exciting nor fun to read, taking forever to draw any sort of conclusion to any story. Sure, Image was overwhelming in it's "Xtreme action all the time", but you don't need to go to the polar opposite of that to tell a good story. Spidey I never could get into. It's simply telling the same old stories over again, but making Spidey far worse as a character than he has ever been (let alone killing off any semblance of a good Spiderman in the New Avengers...ugh). Ultimates would be alright if it were released as a TPB, rather than a single issue comic. I wouldn't mind nearly so much if it were released once every 3-4 months as a large volume.

Originally Posted by acid

Yeah. That Rob Liefeld. He sure was a great artist.

Ah, forever Liefeld to haunt our days. I don't mind him that much. He simply overexaggerated everything, but at least he was consistant...He does do nice detail, that's about all I can really give him...he's not near my favorite artist, that's for sure. I much prefer Texiera on Union, or Booth on Backlash, Finch on Ascension, Jim Lee on Gen 13/WildCATs/Divine Right, Portacio on Wetworks , Turner on almost everything he has done, McFarlane on Spawn, Campbell on Danger Girl, Silvestri on Hunter Killer/Cyberforce, Madureira on Battle Chasers, Kirkham on Strykeforce/Vice, Manapul on Necromancer, these are just a small sampling, and any of these destroy pretty much all of the artists working for the big two combined.

Originally Posted by acid

I mean really. What the fuck is that supposed to be. Captain America has shoe boxes for pecs and the girl on the left has a torso that is 8 miles long and a waist that is 4 inches around.

Like I said, I don't mind him, but definately not my favorite (and I had hoped to forget about the Cap image forever, heh). The women...nothing like exaggerating the breasts and butt so horney fan-boys will buy it...he just did it more than nearly all artists do in comics. Too bad really.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by vemp

I weigh them both. I read a book if the story and art are mixed appropriately, that's what makes a good book, a good book. I used to think that I should get books just because it's done by a good artist/penciller, since I'm an "artist" too, and neglect the story of the book as long as it's pretty. Well, guess what? I might as well browse the internet for pictures instead of getting the comics.

I agree, comics need both good art and good story to be a worthy comic. Of course, art is subjective, and what one person finds good, another may hate, but there are degrees of it. I do find that the mainstream comics nowadays have very bland art. There is just nothing that stands out from it, as well, a lot of it does not suit the subject matter. It's like having Braveheart, but instead of Mel Gibson, you use Dave Chapelle...

Originally Posted by vemp

Some people find some book's art ugly, and don't bother reading it, like Powers, Hellboy, Goon, BPRD. They don't know they're missing such a good read. I guess they're happy with just looking at the 'art' from The Gift, since they consider it 'overwhelming'.

With Hellboy/BPRD and Goon, I find that the art suits the comic style completely, and most importantly, the art does not change from issue to issue. Not only that, the covers are done by the same artists. What I hate most is getting a comic that has a cover done by, say Turner, and yet the inside is filled with some hack artist that looks like he has the experience of a 12 year old. It doesn't matter how well it's written, that just turns me off the book completely.

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