Firearms

I live in Canada, a sane and sensible country where not just any idiot can arm himself for any old reason.

You forgot to add the options "Nothing" and "Firearms are illegal/uncommon in my country". Oops. So I won't vote for now. Oh, it'd be nice to add "Other weapon (specify)" as an option too.

Myself, I have a longbow. It's a Martin "Stick" which draws 40# @ 28". If I'm not mistaken, that's just barely legal for deer hunting (37#, I think... ?).

I'd love to collect bows, if only I had the money. I'd like to have at least one of each of the following styles:

• Standard recurve (like a Martin X200)
• Olympic-style takedown
• English longbow
• Native American flatbow
• Middle-eastern recurve
• Mongolian recurve
• Crossbow
• Repeating crossbow
• Ballista :asthanos:

And just for sh*ts and giggles, one of these days I'd like to make an atlatl with a friend of mine who does a lot of bowcrafting and fletching and has made one himself.

From the Wikipedia article on the atlatl:

Spoiler:

"The Aztecs reinvented the atlatl after the arrival of the Spanish conquistadores in their lands and they were used extensively during the resulting war. History shows that the Spanish feared the Aztec atlatl above all other weapons. Many unfortunate Spaniards were surprised to find the power of the weapon could easily penetrate Spanish metal armor, with the dart often passing completely through the unlucky target."

"Primitive" weapons are no joke. You know, firearms weren't created and used in the beginning because they were any better than longbows/crossbows in the first place. It's only because they require much less training to use. I'd dare say that in the right hands, an English longbow is more deadly than any firearm made up until the 19th century, keeping in mind that firearms were invented around the 15th century!!!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by tweeter

Gumby, I just read that you'd take a Berretta over a Glock... are you insane? They are pieces of metal and plastic glued together with a wholesome helping of feces... No really... they blow ass.

Glocks are pertiful. Our police here use .40 Glocks, ever since their Berrettas were discovered to be... less than reliable when in need.

And you, sir, wouldn't know sh*t if it came out of your anus sideways.

Glocks are even crappier than berettas. Not that I would ever buy a Beretta anyway. They're ladies' guns!

Gimme something that takes a standard .223 round. Doesn't seem all that intimidating until you see what a good .223 pistol can do.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Oh shit. Busted. Yes, I'm a raging serial rapist.


Also...
Which is precisely why we have a gun in our home.

Baseball bats are much cheaper and just as intimidating.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Gumby

Umm I don't know about you but a .223 pistol is horribly undepowered for personal defense... If recoil is a problem there are better pistols than something that isn't even 6mm.

What do you intend to defend yourself from? A gorilla? You don't know what you're talking about. The diameter of the round isn't all that matters. Hell, look at the .357 Magnum. It's "not quite 9mm" but it'll take down a rhino. The standard .223 is pretty well conceived. Little round, big kick.

Originally Posted by Gumby

AliceNWondrland: Don't worry about keener, he seems to think that we can all just let anyone do what they want once they break into our homes and that the big bad man is really a nice person and won't doing any harm to the people who are inside.

A 90lb meth-head is a "big bad man"??? What are you, in the lollipop guild?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by David4516

You're probably right. Most people will never actually NEED a gun. But having one is still a good idea. Why? Take car insuracne for example... you probably won't wreck your car, but you have insurance anyway. You might go your whole life without ever needing a gun or insurance, but that doesn't mean having them is a bad idea... It's about being prepared to deal with a bad situation. It's better to not need it and have it, than to not have it and need it...

What, you think someone's just going to want to shoot you for the fun of it, but give you ample enough warning for you to get your own gun out? Please.

Guns are used by criminals for threat and insurance. If you cooperate when you're being robbed or whatever, you won't get shot. I'd rather be robbed of $100, than pay $200 for a handgun and risk getting shot.

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Do you? Have you any real shooting experiance? I thought you were a bow expert, not a gun expert...

I couldn't resist getting involved in the original discussion with some lamer who thought Glocks are good.

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I do NOT recomend .357 for Rhino hunting. I wouldn't use a .357 to hunt anything bigger than deer, and even then it's not a great deer round.

Sorry, I meant .357 Magnum.

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Also, .357 is actually a larger diameter than 9mm by 0.002 of an inch (0.357 vs 0.355)

I wouldn't know. I always thought .45=9mm.

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Ever shoot a .223? They don't kick much. At least I don't think so anyway, recoil is a realative thing. I've shot real kickers like .338 Win Mag, so .223 doesn't seem like much to me...

Nope.

But I have heard a story from a friend who was in the military and someone in his squad tried out a .223 submachinegun. Like you, she didn't expect much kickback, but her arm actually got windmilled around almost backwards by the kickback, and her squad leader nearly caught a bullet in the head - got a real nice scrape across the side of his helmet. He beat her unconscious and she was RTU'ed that same day.

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You're kidding, right? If I had my choice to fight someone armed with a bat, or someone armed with a gun, I'd fight the guy with the bat. I'm sure you'd rather fight the guy with the bat too...

Yeah, and the bat costs pennies whereas the gun costs $$$ and requires a permit, etc. And when your kids are sleeping in the next room over, believe me the bat is the better option.

My point is, I'd rather defend my house with a bat or kitchen knife than barehanded. A gun isn't a viable option in a sane country.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by David4516

Often times the criminal will kill you anyway, so as not to leave any witnesses...

Wrong. Criminals don't want to get caught, but they REALLY don't want to get caught for something big. It goes without saying that it's much, much worse to get caught on murder than is for theft. But that's okay. Your solution to every situation is to carry a gun. You're no psych major.

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My point is, how do you know that they arn't good if you've never actually tried using one? I don't like Glocks either, but I still think that they are "decent" pistols. And yes, I have actually shot them before...

Because I've heard stories over the last fifteen years. And because I've played Counterstrike, for what little that's worth.

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Thats what I'm talking about... just because a round has the word "Magnum" in it, don't go thinking its super powerful or something. One great example of this is .22 Magnum. Yes, it's a "Magnum", but it's still pretty weak compared to most non-magnum rounds...

A .357 magnum will split a car's engine block. That's what it was conceived for in the first place, actually...

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Why not? I think the gun is actually the smarter way to go...

And what about old people for example? A 70 year old isn't going to be able to protect themself with a bat, a gun really is the only option they have. Same goes for people with disabilitys...

True. And that's where you get into the realm of "special consideration" and not "hey everybody should own a gun".

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by tweeter

God this is what I missed about this forum... All these people who think that everything can be solved peacefully or with as little force/violence as possible.

God this is what I missed about this forum... All these retards who misrepresent your point of view.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Gumby

ArrowHead: I suggest you get some real experience before you judge a firearm.

I can't. In Canada you can't just decide "well fuck I'd like a shiny new handgun" and go out and buy one. This is a civilized, sane country.

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BTW CS doesn't count as experience with a weapon.

Owning a weapon doesn't make you all-knowing. It makes you armed, and predisposed to violence over thought.

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Also did you know that the reason why we use 5.56mm (.223) ammunition in the military is not to kill, rather it is to disable and force the enemy to use two other men to carry the wounded off the battle field

Duh. It's one of the oldest tactics in the book - wound, don't kill, because killing only takes one man off the battlefield but wounding takes three off.

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in my opinion unless you are in a fire fight

Stop right there. I live in a country where firefights just don't happen. Because we just don't let any wacko buy a gun!

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in a life or death situation you want to end it as fast as possible... not have to shoot the other guy 3 or more times to take him down.

I guess you've never been shot. Being shot will make you think twice about what you're doing, to say the least.

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You hear about those FBI agents who had to shoot someone crazed on PCP more than a dozen times to take him down? Oh btw they were using 9mm ammunition. Another reason why I prefer .44 mag or .45 ACP, should I ever have to use it I know it will not take 12 rounds to disable or kill someone.

"Bigger is better" stupidity. You know, if someone really wanted to do you in, he'd run you over with his car. So what are you going to do now, hide an RPG under the back seat?

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Harmonica: A gun is never overkill for home protection

Looking at the statistics of how many children accidentally kill each other with their parents handguns, I beg to differ.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Iwata

i think gun regulations are in need espically in regards to such weapons as shotguns. After this weekend's massacre up in seattle were an acquaintance of mine was killed by a shotgun. Seriously, why are shotguns legal? you really can't hunt with them without maiming the animal to the point of the meat being unusable. All they are is people killers.

I'm more inclined to say that a man killed your friend, not the gun that he was holding. Shotguns are not as bad/pointless as hanguns.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I don't like handguns because they can be concealed, and because the vast majority of them are, like Iwata said, "people killers".

I'd say shotguns aren't quite so bad because 1) They can't be concealed like hanguns can and 2) As mentioned earlier in the thread, shotguns can be good for home defense, because buckshot is not as likely as a bullet to go through the wall and injure/kill someone in the next room.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Darkk Child

Wow... alright David4516, the first portion is for you.

I don't know the exact diameter of the rounds, but I do know that I noticed the .357 sig sauer pro had noticeably better kick than the 9mm that the Navy guys had in the booth next to me.

I would really like to have a fully automatic pistol, and to be honest, it probably doesn't matter how large the rounds are. I'd settle for a fully automatic 9mm at this point. I fell in love with the one that John Travolta was firing at the end of face off. I even liked the pair Brad Pitt was firing at the end of Mr. and Mrs. Smith. At this point, I just want a fully automatic pistol

You do know that those are just props, right? They may look identical to real-life firearms, but the real thing may fire very differently from the film version.

(If you want to see really "off" gun props, watch Terminator 2: Judgment Day. The "T1000" character has some sort of standard-issue police pistol, but the sound effect they used in the post-processing sounds like something with a silencer on it. :P)

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Gumby

The mexican flag is decieving :/

Personally speaking I think a .45 would be the largest handgun I'd ever want to own... Plenty of power with out the bone breaking recoil.

If you hurt yourself from the recoil of anything smaller than an anti-tank rifle, then you must be holding it wrong.

Anyway, I'd love to see any of the dumbass gun nuts in this thread draw and shoot an english longbow, or talk their way out of a scary situation. Sadly, too many Americans these days are so quick to rely on mechanical implements. So many of their bodies and minds aren't good for sh*t.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Gumby

umm ArrowHead I didn't mean that literally...

Duh. You made a stupid statement, I gave it an appropriate response.

Originally Posted by Numbnuts

Also wtf are you trying to do? Brag about your use of a bow?

No. I think archery is great fun and its sad that so few people have any interest in it.

Anybody who can both a) draw a bow powerful enough to throw an arrow 250 yards plus and b) hit a man or deer sized target at that range, should be proud of himself. To have the same bragging rights as a firearm user, it'd at the very least have to be a fast moving target at that same range.
Frankly, any moron can hit a stationary at 300 yards with a rifle. There's just no sport in anything that doesn't take skill.

Originally Posted by Numbnuts

Sorry bud but I am not impressed at your use of an outdated weapon.

I'm not impressed with anybody's use of a weapon that doesn't require any skill or thought to use. And here's news for you buddy: Crossbows are still in use by some military special forces. Why? Because a crossbow is still quieter than a firearm with a silencer.

Originally Posted by Numbnuts

How heavy of a draw do you use on your bows?

My current bow is 40# and I'm very comfortable with it. To tell you the truth, I don't know how powerful I can go. I'd have to guess around 60# before I have to a) shoot a lot more or b) hit the gym.

Originally Posted by Numbnuts

Why do you have to be an ignorant asshole, Ay?

Speak for yourself.

Originally Posted by Gumby

You know what I'd love to see? A bow hunter take down an elk at 300yards in one shot.

You know what I'd love to see? A rifle hunter track an elk and get within 40 yards to take the shot. Fat chance, though. Rifle-bearing "hunters" (club-footed retards) tend to sit around and hope the game comes to them. That's not exactly "hunting". That's "camping".

Originally Posted by Numbnuts

Remember Arrowhead this is a discussion of what firearms we want, NOT a place for you to bash on Americans or guns.

It's a discussion on firearms, period. I think citizens do not need to carry guns, and I like the finesse of older weapons. And I'm perfectly within my right to express my point of view. If you can't stand what your love for guns says about you, then just ignore it and move on. Don't antagonize me.

Originally Posted by Numbnuts

Hey MysteryRidah, you need to take your stupid anti-gun opinion to the PP, this is not the place.

Well he is right about gun violence though. As long as guns that are made to use against people (i.e. handguns) are legal, people will be shot! It's like if you legalized cocaine, hundreds of thousands of people would become addicted. But somehow cocaine is illegal. Hmm.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by David4516

Explain to me how shooting a longbow is a useful skill?

Its more sport than anything, but it's definitely a survival skill. You can take down game as big as a bear with a bow and arrows, so you've got both food and defense taken care of.

Some might say this only makes bows as good as firearms for survival, at best. So I should point out that bows arrows can be made from scratch and can be used an indefinate number of times, whereas a bullet fired is a bullet forever lost and you can't just make a rifle.

Originally Posted by David4516

Just because I'm American doesn't mean I'm some fat, lazy slob.

Just because your countrymen are Americans doesn't mean they're fat, lazy slobs either. They're fat lazy slobs because they're fat lazy slobs.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Jiraiya

I dont know where you live but up here everyone bow hunts. I know more people who shoot a bow than shotgun (cant hunt with rifles here).

That's awesome. You're in an ex-Confederate state, right? (The tradition of bowhunting arose as guns were banned following the civil war.)

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Manis Tricuspis

Listen man are you like Level 20< ? Because we need a ranger for our party and the last guy ditched us to go hang out with some girl. No munchkin stuff, plzkthx.

Funny thing is I mostly RP Barbarians.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Gumby

bow hunters almost always take a sidearm with them because of the bears and other large cats in this area.

(I quoted this from Manis Tricuspis's post... did you edit it out of a previous post or something?)

Anyway if you were trying to poke fun... meh. I think a sidearm when bowhunting is a good enough idea in a dangerous area as I'm assuming yours is. … A bear would be too big/strong to take down without a strong bow and arrows made for the job, and wildcats would be too quick for most people. Hunting is different from being suddenly ambushed by a predator.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Gumby

So which is it? Handguns are pointless as you said earlier in this thread or as you just stated (completely contradicting yourself I might add) that a sidearm is good defensive tool used while hunting?

What the shit? I concede a point to you and this is how you thank me? Go fuck yourself, Bubba.

Originally Posted by Gumby

I'm not really sure I would want to try and hunt a large brown bear with a bow. Seems rather ineffective to hunt an animal that can take three .45 rounds and still keep coming at you.

No you probably wouldn't. You don't have the patience or the skill, being the clubfooted, hamfisted gun-waving retard that you are.

Lay some bait and wait until he's laying down by the bait, then shoot him behind the shoulder. That's how you hunt bear.

It's not the gun that's ineffective, it's the untrained and uneducated shooter who's holding it.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by David4516

It is POSSIBLE to kill an elefant with a .22

That doesn't mean its the prefered way hunt one...

I might understand using a bow to hunt smaller bear like Black bear... but you'd have to be nuts to go after brown or grizzly bear with a bow...

Nah.

http://www.bowhunts.com/grizzly.html

With a 70# bow or better, using broadheads like Zwickeys', you're set.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Manis Tricuspis

Hold on, hold on

So these guys, they go HUNTING

But they're afraid they might run into something dangerous

So they bring weapons other than the ones they USE FOR HUNTING

Because those weapons are apparently not good for killing animals with, so:

Why hunt using those weapons in the first place?

Hint: It involves rolling D20s!

Stalking an animal and placing one good shot to take it down unawares is totally different from being attacked by it and having to fend it off in a panic.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Gumby

Untrained? Your a joke Arrowhead. I am exceptionally trained in the use of a firearm both through personal use of gun, gun safety training, and the fine training provided by this great nations military.

Where did I call you personally untrained? Duh, I didn't. You're just blowing hot air now.

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What I can see from your line of thought is this, you're a snob Arrowhead. You think because you spend time to learn a skill that you are better than those who choose a more effective way to hunting which you may not realize takes a whole new set of skills to properly use.

I'm the snob? You're the one who thinks the rest of us are jealous of you for owning firearms.

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This is not to say I am against bow hunting as I do love archery but for the purpose of hunting, home defense, and weapons of war a firearm out matches a bow and arrow in every aspect, except sound but even that can compensated for.

Well actually, at close range (which is how a bow is used in hunting), I'd expect that an arrow is every bit as devastating as a bullet, if not more. Of course it all depends on what calibre/type of bullet and firearm you're comparing to what arrow/head and bow.

As for "home defense", I stand firm in my belief that a firearm makes a home less safe, not more. Obviously someone with responsibility and extensive training like yourself can be trusted, but you're the exception rather than the rule. As for war, of course the firearm is superior to the bow, heh.

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Canada allows shotguns doesn't it? Have you ever been skeet shooting? That is fun. Then again from the sound of it you probably enjoy the hunt just as much as the act of shooting the animal.

As for skeet shooting, sounds like fun.

As for hunting... Actually, I haven't been hunting yet. More than anything, I just don't have the money for the bow, arrows and license that I'd need. And with the bow I use right now, I'm not so sure that I could pass the test.

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Ok no more arguing about bow vs gun, this isn't the point of this thread. If you would like to continue to debate this, take it up with me in PM.

Nah, I think I've said my piece. I'll leave you with this, though: drop your guns and practice archery exclusively for a year or two, and you'll have a whole new appreciation for your guns when you pick 'em up again.

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I don't plan on hunting a bear with a bow anytime soon. Besides the fact that I don't like the taste of bear meat. I think I will stick to deer and elk.

Shame. It's about as good a trophy as you can get. But I admire you for not hunting just for a trophy.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Gumby

I agree that having guns in everyone's home is not the best idea, some just aren't responsible to operate a gun safely, the same can be said about cars :/

Hehe, true... but I'd like to think that cars are a lot more useful than firearms. Unless the world ends and we all have to go back to hunting and fighting each other over food......

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However everyone that I know who keeps firearms in their homes are people who are very safe with guns, not bumbling idiots that shoot everything in sight.

That's kind of a black-and-white comparison, don'tcha think?

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While I'd love to put down a gun for a year or two just to use a bow but I can't. I'll be needing a rifle in less than a year when I get deployed.

Sheeit. :| Well, come back alive, bro.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Jiraiya

PS: Here on GFF I read the article about the dude who blew his hand off with a 40mm round and I know this should belong in that thread but this is firearms so...anyways. It says the man found it hunting, I dont know who hunts with a 40mm round or leaves one in the woods but anyways IF the man is a hunter, wouldnt he realize something like that would be live? If you shake it you can hear the gunpowder, I wouldnt mess with it.

Well, 40mm = 1½". I'm guessing those woods border on some military training grounds.

Oh, here's something interesting... MK19. Seems 40mm rounds in general are more like grenades than bullets, owing to their use against aircraft...

[Edit]Er wait... 40mm rounds are the grenades used on modern assault rifles like the M209...[/Edit]

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by David4516

Some pics I took on my shooting trip last sunday:
[Images snipped]

The closeup of the target... which one were you shooting that time?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?