Hitoshi Sakimoto

I'm not going to comment much on this thread, but I do see why people wouldn't like Sakimoto's music. It took me a while to appreciate and some scores like FFXII and Vagrant Story required a really long journey. To me, Sakimoto is refreshingly unconventional and I find his musicality quite deep and complex -- a rarity in the VGM world. It's also notable that he's very versatile; I find all his works individually characterised and it's a good idea to check out his early Terpsichorean works (e.g. Revolter, Shippu Mahou Daisakusen, Magical Chase), some shooter works (Soukyuugurentai, Gradius V, Radiant Silvergun), and his 'exotic' works (Legaia Duel Saga, Breath of Fire V).

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Anyway, the stuff I do like by him are the obvious Tactics Ogre and FF Tactics, though the latter that was entirely composed by him is a bit hard to listen all the way through.

FFT and TO were both scored by Hitoshi Sakimoto and Masaharu Iwata. Iwata took sizeable roles in each and sounds very distinct to Sakimoto. Much more pronounced and accessible, I'd say, but a bit shallow overall.

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Comparing Mizuta to Sakimoto is pure insanity. Mizuta composes dull and boring music. Hell, even his upbeat stuff is dull and boring.

I completely agree with that. Mizuta's music is often incredibly dull and it has nothing to it -- never-ending ostinato + infantile melody with a few nice instrument combinations usually. His work on Promathia and Art Urhgan did nothing different even if FFXI itself was decent. Sakimoto is much more subtle, versatile, and interesting, in my eyes.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Taisai, you have very good points, but I totally disagree with this:

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Of course, Mizuta's instrumental use is easily wider than Sakimoto, who tends to definitely stick to orchestral music.

I highly recommend that you listen to Sword Maniac, Gradius V, Legaia Duel Saga, Magical Chase, or Hyper Street Fighter II Remixes. With these scores, it'll become evident that Sakimoto is well-versed in the fields of old-school (but hardly derivative) synth music, energetic electro-acoustic shooter scores, exotica, funk, jazz, and even an exotic form of rock. His popular orchestral works (FFXII, FFT, Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, etc.) are just one facet of him. Sakimoto is very versatile on both a discreet and subtle level.

While Mizuta's acoustic palette is impressively diverse, he can do little outside it and doesn't seem to respect the individual capacities of an instrument. I feel his instrumentation use can be formulaic and mechanical.

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In studying various Sakimoto tracks, I've noticed that he has two basic approaches: either place emphasis upon a strong melody; or place emphasis upon a strong mood. I tend to enjoy the "strong melody" work he does a lot more, as he's usually able to hold back on overwhelming listeners with the "wall of sound".

Personally, I've never noticed such a firm distinction. I think it's a big spectrum and I'd typically call Sakimoto quite a melodic composer despite how atmospheric most of his works are. He's much less outwardly melodious than, say, Nobuo Uematsu, but I hear a lot of melodic elegance and witty lyricism underpinning many of his works.

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However, aren't those titles far less popular games than FFs are? One reason why I adore Uematsu is that he has composed about 10 FF soundtracks in a variety of genres and has always pleased several million people. Even his experiments were also still accessible. On the other hand, when Sakimoto works on major games, he does stick to orchestra and indeed he confessed he had avoided to compose traditional folk music in FFXII. I personally think Gradius V wasn't so freshing, aside from Four to the floor (even which I think Sakimoto had rarely used). The orchestra + Roland XV-5080 synth + sampled beats isn't unusual Sakimoto. Nontheless I'd agree Legaia Dual Saga had some celtic, jazz, folk pieces and his earlier works sound different (Magical Chase and Sword Maniac included).

You referred to his instrument use as limited without indicating you were talking exclusively about his works. With those works, I think it's evident that Sakimoto can manipulate a wide range of instrumentation beyond just orchestral instrumentation. As for Gradius V, it's worth is debatable and I find it the weakest of his shooter scores, but I wouldn't say it was atypical. As early as his first work, Revolter, those electro-acoustic leanings were evident.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Taisai

Okay, so I'll blame Sakimoto for not having the heart to show his diversity in major works rather than for being poor instrumentals-wise.

He tries to use a moderately consistent ensemble of instruments within his works but varies them between them. I guess he feels this is more artistic and I do feel it adds to the authenticity of his OSTs that this is so. However, I'd love Sakimoto to declare to the mainstream just how eclectic he is some day.

Dubble - Masashi Hamauzu.

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Originally Posted by niki

I wonder in what proportions is Sakimoto's fame due to him working for Square rather than his actual composer talents.

By this, what do you mean? Are you saying that Square was responsible for exposing him to mainstream audiences? Or are you saying that Square aided him improving his musicianship in some way?

Either way, I appreciate where you're coming from, but Yasumi Matsuno was more significant than anyone else. Matsuno started at Quest with Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre before joining Square for Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story only to leave during Final Fantasy XII production. It's widely believed that Matsuno was integral to Sakimoto's refinement of his orchestral style. He provided plenty of feedback in the composer's first orchestral work, 1993's Ogre Battle, and also helped to define the approach of Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story, as well as allow him to express human emotion for the first time in Tactics Ogre.

As for the matter of circumstance, Matsuno is integral. Ogre Battle was so important in Sakimoto's Japanese recognition and, were it not for this Quest collaboration, he would never have followed Matsuno to score Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story (though his involvement in Treasure Hunter G was entirely separate). Interestingly, though, it was 1991's Magical Chase that started the Quest collaboration and it's thanks to Iwata, who had previously worked with Sakimoto on 1987's Revolter, that encouraged Quest to work with him.

Sakimoto is one of many of today's prominent VGM composers that have got to the top partly due to chance circumstances. However, the same applies to Nobuo Uematsu, Yasunori Mitsuda, Yoshitaka Hirota, Noriyuki Iwadare, Koichi Sugiyama, and many others I haven't done research on. The principle reason Sakimoto has stayed on top is because he's regarded as an excellent game composer by those who employ him, e.g. Matsuno. Apparently, the same can't be said for Iwata, though Basiscape has given his career a nice lift.

I disagree with Rain that Sakimoto isn't at all famous. He's got a lot of fans and is increasingly becoming a familiar name among mainstream RPG fans. He's had fans since 1993 and continues to have a growing fanbase.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by RainMan

I don't believe Sakimoto is a household name like Uematsu or Mitsuda.
I believe there are plenty of composers that get more recognition than Sakimoto so I am speaking of Sakimoto's fame via comparison to other prominent and well regarded composers in the industry.

Ahh so it's relative, not absolute like initially stated. I agree with you, though most of the composers that get more fame seem still set in the past to me, Sakuraba aside. I'm fascinated to see what all his 2007 works will be like and whether he'll manage to exert the same individuality between his scores.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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He didn't get to where he is because he worked with Squaresoft; Squaresoft was going to go bankrupt if Final Fantasy failed.

I was referring to the circumstances that made him famous, not the musical quality of his work. If it weren't for encouragement from a friend and Final Fantasy's success, Nobuo Uematsu would never be famous. Circumstances like these seem to underpin the careers of many of today's most famous musicians. It was often a matter of circumstance which individuals became famous.

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My point is that the VGM industry is full of little Sakimotos who just didnt have the chance to work for game series as exposed as he did.

Give me some names. I haven't heard a single game composer comparable to Sakimoto in musicianship.

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And Rainman and Maul, yes I do claim that Sakimoto would'nt have 20% of his current popularity if you withdrew his work for Square from his discography, especially the FF stuff.

I didn't disagree with that, but the reason he's working on FF goes much deeper than he got contracted by the company one day. It's all due to Yasumi Matsuno.

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Originally Posted by GoldfishX

As far as I know, Sakimoto's first super-mainstream work was FFT. I don't recall seeing his name prior to that (and I mean way back in 98-99-ish...

Actually, in Japan, Sakimoto became a popular name with 1993's Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen and 1995's Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together. He also won quite a bit of fame with Shippu Mahou Daisakusen and Magical Chase. In terms of Western attention, Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story were definitely the turning points. In some ways, the latter more so as it was a solo project whereas Masaharu Iwata has never received much Western attention despite his significance pre-VS in Sakimoto's career.

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Like niki said, it's the same for everyone. In reality, Yasunori Mitsuda would still be a niche name without the Chrono games (massive understatement), Uematsu would just have been "another composer" in the NES age without Final Fantasy (with questionable prospects moving forward without the series...Rad Racer and 3D World Runner have fine music, but nothing that supercedes anything in the NES age) and even a hack like Naoshi Mizuta would still be lingering in obscurity without a true FF game to his name (as he did with Capcom, as a third or forth string composer). Look no further than Noriyasu Agematsu and Masato Kouda, who are getting their chance with the Wild Arms series after years of niche projects (and Michiko Naruke, who was completely obscure prior to getting the original Wild Arms gig and now has raging fanboys emailing her to update her friggin website and worrying about her health). And hell...No one gave a fuck about Masashi Hamauzu or Junya Nakano until after FFX. I remember how tepid the response was when both were announced to be working on the next FF game. Both SF2 and Dewprism had their fans, but not in the ravenous sense you see both supported in nowadays (though maybe Hama more than Naka). And you still never see Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon or Another Mind come up in hardly any type of conversation.

Definitely. That's my point exactly, but expressed more eloquently and persuasively. Basically the reason I found niki's initial statement curious.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Sorry if I have continued to miss your point, niki. I believe you missed mine quite a few times too. Communications breakdown on both sides.

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I'm just not fond of these negative threads (anymore). It would be a nice change of pace if there were such active threads discussing different composers' abilities in constructive, not destructive ways. That's all.

I don't often care whether a discussion of a composers' abilities is destructive, but I find declarations like 'Hitoshi Sakimoto is an absolutely TERRIBLE composer' thoroughly irritating. Of course, I'm known for endless destructive ranting, so I'm a hypocrite too.

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Sure they talk about Koji Kondo at that school, but for goodness sakes, a few memorable tunes isn't all the Japanese have to bring to the table

While your reference to Koji Kondo is understandable, I find it a bit generalised that you think he's only capable of a few memorable tunes. I think Ocarina of Time is wonderful on a creative and technical level, even if it's not especially complex. It fits the game wonderfully too. Star Fox 64 and Super Mario 64 were also creative works, albeit less consistent.

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Originally Posted by Daniel DeCastro

Did I say thats what I thought?

Apologies for also making a generalisation. Given your statement and how people often interpret his work, I wrongly asusmed you were a Kondo basher.

There's nowhere I can't reach.