Math-invention or discovery?

I was told there are some smart people here so I thought to bring a discussion I had with folks from another forum here to see what you think.
Me I'm not much of a math wiz but I get by. I figure math is a discovery since its all around us. After looking at the periodic table of elements this question came to me one day.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Kishin

The periodic table is fascinating.

I think so too. I saw many great answers to this question. I wish I had you guys to show me the ropes on the really complicated math principals. My strength is more in the creative arts and problem solving. I can make machines & envision complicated devices but numbers confound me.

Originally Posted by lord-of-shadow

Look at number systems with a base other than ten. Hexadecimal, binary, you could make up an infinite number of different bases.

That right there is proof enough to me that the system of math that we use to make sense of the world around us is a human invention. Yes, the laws of mathematics are simply there, but the system that allows the human mind to make sense of it is a human creation.

In my previous conversation I noted that bees use math in many ways. They make precise structures in their hives, maintain the hive temperature at optimum levels, and communicate navigational information using math but don't go to school to learn the principals. I find it hard to believe there was some "genius bee" that invented their math but the bee species as a whole didn't advance any further to take them beyond our current human advancements. Bees have been around longer than people and have had many more generations. Plus their work ethic is off the charts, the bees should be ruling the universe by now if they invented math first.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by packrat

In this discussion mathematics must, by definition, be limited to the way in which we as humans understand it. Otherwise, anything could feasibly be performing calculations, so long as it exists in this universe.

Well how about the distance to a pollen source? Bee navigation language factors in the position of the sun, time & space. Human pilots do the same thing with their instruments.
http://www.ivyhall.district96.k12.il...honbeefax.html

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.