Religion: What it means to you

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Why would we need to say the same?

I asked to see if you have experience. Living examples give me more than texts about them.

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

I mean, if I went around wielding a sword saying "BY THE POWER OF GREYSKULL...!!!" before everything I did, you'd think I was pretty fucking ridiculous, wouldn't you?

Yes, but only because "the power of greyskull" has demonstrated its self as an entertainment vehicle, not a method of solving problems.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

This is the very example of why people WANT to be religious. They like feeling like they're a part of something. Believe me, buddy - if you want to be a part of something and want support, there are a million ways to do it - not just through j.c.

I know, the drug culture I came from is full of people who want to be apart of something. We gathered together in mind spinning bliss but it didn't last & it left you feeling more empty than before. A life of following Jesus with others has not left me with that empty feeling.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

I'm an atheist. My life is chock full of morality, love, generosity, and loving my brothers and sisters in life. I don't need a book or a pretend man to do it, either. Do YOU?

Sure I do. Where I come from those things you listed were in short supply. Duo pointed out something I see in many atheists & agnostics-->

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

I don't need to find strength in a religious text. I already form strong relationships with those around me and find strength within myself, I've never really had any problems that required some mystical metaphysical force to solve.

Either you guys are real bad asses and can just walk over anything that comes your way or you really haven't had to go through much difficulty in life.

My prayer to God for you is to be blessed with something that is over and above what you are able to accomplish. Something so hard that it shakes your notion of what the world is about.

When that day comes then you will see what the poor folk through the ages have been talking about.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Capo

I could be a drug-addicted quadriplegic living on the streets, I still don't see how asking for help from some god you don't even know exists is going to help matters. Seems like a bit of a cop-out, actually.

I suppose thats the rub isn't it? "It seems" & "I think" are statements I often hear from the folks that really haven't had to make a serious reality check in their lives. I don't mean it as a slam, I know for a fact that ease and comfort kills spirituality.

The Christian faith got big because of suffering, thats something you can't ignore. I've read that even popular atheists admit that their viewpoint is most popular in the wealthy crowd.

I've heard my religion called a "crutch" and I don't have a problem with that. I openly admit that my flawed condition requires the use of a crutch to stand under the weight of my problems.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Capo

And I could just as easily turn around this completely unsubstantiated claim with another equally invalid one by saying that this is only so because, as it happens, the rich tend to be the most intelligent.

A brief look at church history would prove you wrong.
Annie Johnston Flint is a great example of a person who loses everything yet her faith in God increased.
Annie Johnson Flint's Biography
Do you have an example of a resolute individual who strove through equal adversity without faith in a God?



Try some volunteer work to get a different perspective. Visit a nursing home or a homeless shelter and clock in some time. I did, it helps.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Good for you. I'm glad you found what fills your hole of emptiness and loneliness.

Some of us don't have that hole, see.

You're admitting that Jesus is just a hole-filler. That's awesome in so many ways, it hurts.

This is true from a biblical point of view. You tell me to think, and I do. I have confirmed what the bible says in my lifes efforts, I know for a fact that the promises in the book are verifiabel truths. I just dont read the texts I test them out. This is the reason why I pray for folks so I can see my God at work.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by sprouticus

No, see what you're doing is preaching to US,

No, i'm sharing the different aspects of what my religion means to me. If its preachy I am sorry.

Originally Posted by sprouticus

If you want to pray for people you know privately, that's cool. No one has the right to tell you what to do there - pray to whatever for whatever. I actually encourage this shit, if it helps you.

HOWEVER. If you want to pray for them IN THEIR FACE, you're being intentionally provocative and deserve to be punched in the neck.

But I am just showing what my religion means to me. Often people just say what they believe, i'm showing it, whats the harm?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

If it works for you, that's awesome, and I am happy for you. Honestly. But you have NO RIGHT to tell others that they're not believing in the right thing.

I see your belief system is not too different than mine. By your statements you show what your religion means to you as well by your dedication in speaking for your view. You preach just like I do and you point out that no other way is right except your own.

We may have some differences though. My religion means security to me.
What I mean by this is the fact that I measure myself by biblical standards.
Unlike the standards of personal preferences, other people or trends mine are written down and don't change with the times. Sure, people come along from time to time to impose their own views on the texts but the book says what it says and its messages have remained consistent over time.

Security comes in other ways as well. As a christian when I do what the book says and I get flack for it, I am secure in the knowledge that the book is dead on with its promises. I knew before hand that attacks on my views would come because the book said so.

I am made secure in the fact that my book is the only one that is consistent with science. The bible is the only religious book that is aligned with reality as we know it. (Isaiah 40:22) People have attacked the bible more than any other religious book over the course of centuries and ultimately have failed because its full of truth.

The bible & its message through religion mean security to me because views like yours bring me none. I can't be secure in personal strength because with time I will lose that and you will too.

Finally I am secure in the hope that I will see some of you on the other side. My book has accurately predicted things that happened in the past and so I trust in is future predictions. As the years roll by, many of you will forget what you typed here on this forum but you must consider that it may be more evidence to condemn you. My religion means security in eternal life with my maker and the folks who took his offer of salvation through Jesus Christ. It means patience, mercy & forgiveness which I have for all of you cause I know where youre coming from.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

My system works for me. Yours works for you. You have NO RIGHT to say what should and will work for me, as I have no right to say that to you.

I have no right? I stated awhile back that my religion means freedom for me. The world system quite often tries to put chains on people with the system of being P.C. but a Christian is not in the business of keeping freedom to themselves. A Christian is supposed to declare the freedom through Christ. (Mark 16:15, Matthew 5:16,
2 Corinthians 10:5)

Throughout history everywhere the church has gone, people have become free. Through Christian education & moral conduct the people of the democratic governments of the world have enjoyed freedoms that other religious systems don't have. Even our sciences have the Christian faith to thank because of the freedoms the belief system provides.

In the U.S. my freedoms come from God not people. THANKFULLY I have the right to speak which the admins of this forum respect. You have the right to ignore my posts.

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

Despite being so made that i cannot believe, I am according to at least one theory, created in the image of God. Which makes the image of God rather problematic does it not? The consequence of this is that even before I was conceived I was singled out in God's plan to be condemed for thought-crimes I did not choose to commit and could not have evaded. So regardless of what I may accomplish in my life in terms of spirituality and ethics I have an eternity of hellfire to look foward to. I suppose I can take some solace in knowing that God loves me.

Bollocks.

Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

Luke 11:34
Your eye is the lamp of your body. When your eyes are good, your whole body also is full of light. But when they are bad, your body also is full of darkness.

John 3:20
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

And you wonder why people dislike you folks as a group.

Originally Posted by Smelnick

Ugh. I hate people who quote single bible verses LordsSword. (Oh man, I just realized the irony of your name.)

I don't think the bible should be taken out of context that way. You shouldn't live your life by single verses. Take it as a whole. What is the whole passage saying, not the itty bitty little sentences within.

Originally Posted by GhaleonQ

Thanks. Also, my apologies to Lord'sSword, who, despite not being my theological doppelganger, I feel like I should be aiding.

Another thing my religion means me is to me is courage. In the face of incredible odds. The Christian is called to stand up against the pressure of others to conform (Romans 12:2).

My faith tradition started with nonconformance and continues to this day. As a black man I have my brother in the faith Martin Luther King jr. to thank for his nonconformance. I am made free because he too made a stand in his day to speak out and not give in.

I stand for the Bible, a document that has proven its worth, can be seen & researched by others and discussed openly to the benefit of all.

Many here don't have anything to stand on at all but their collection of rumor, here-say and shifting information that constantly needs updating.

To me my book is a proven source of virtue but I have yet to see if my opponents seek to show the source from which they define what virtue is so as to show grounds for their judgments against me and my statements.
(Luke 6:42)
What makes YOUR opinions better than the bible? I bet you dont even know where your views come from even though it means "supreme authority over religious views" to you.

I know the origin of my views and thus my religion means strength in all situations as well because it doesn't seek to hide behind tough statements and a forceful position to convince others.

My religion is backed by centuries of researchable facts of its benefits to humanity. To those who are critical of the bible, what about your belief system? What is its track record? You probably don't care but I care about my belief system because at its heart it means caring. It means caring even if others hate me. My motivation is backed by caring for YOU your current state in life and your eternal position in relation to the God I believe in.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by RainMan

But see, this is exactly what I am talking about. This contradicts the hell out of itself.

But what is your basis for thinking that you are right? We all have gone to school and know that there is such a thing as a right & wrong answer to the basic facts of reality.
What body of knowlege do you turn to that says that I am wrong?

Originally Posted by RainMan

These FACTS change considerably with the changing of times. For instance, people were burned at the stake for saying the world was not the center of the universe in the sixteenth century.

No the "practice" of the Christian faith has changed with the times. At the start believers died because they would not deny their beliefs. That was biblical.
Doing the same to others is not sanctioned by the bible at all which gives me comfort because its message does not change unlike P.C. culture we live in today.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by GhaleonQ

Oh, and Lord'sSword, I'm on your side. Don't get me wrong, I'm a theological conservative.

Thanks, I knew if I stood my ground long enough the rest of my spiritual body (Romans 12:4) would kick into gear. Stories of heroes
in the faith has taught me this much and more.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Look, LordSword.

You presume (probably out of your own ignorance) that the Bible alone teaches "right and wrong." Morality, if you will. Do you enjoy being ignorant?

I recommend - seriously recommend - that you try reading up on other religions, if anything for education.

I have yet to mention my occult background. I have "practiced" several other belief systems (mainly new age) and that is a part of my life I am especially ashamed of. I did some bad stuff and I knew it was bad but my past belief systems never aligned with my conscience, this is the reason for my current position.

I am aquainted with hinduism, buddahism, islam, and even the satanic following. ALL of them require people to "earn" the favor of their associated deitys through "correct" living and or practice of the given system.

I continue to stress freedom time and again because the bible teaches the we can be free from such systems by accepting the fact that there is nothing we can do to earn our way into happiness & heaven. Its free when you give up your way, place God first and ask Him to save you through His plan through is plan through Jesus Christ.

How about you give God a chance with a simple request for forgivness of the bad things you've done & a request to be saved through Him being in charge.
You will get immediate evidence from your decision as I did because you are given a gift (1 Corinthians 6:19).

Those other systems left me wanting and empty because there is never enough you can do and we are left with no evidence of any eternal reward for efforts.

Originally Posted by RainMan

As far as 'truth' goes, what is that exactly? I just don't like someone else implying that truth is an absolute term that isn't defined in the mind of the individual.

Here is a great source on truth: http://www.ankerberg.com/Articles/_P...y/TD1W1099.pdf

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Which religions other than Christianity have you practiced? Not the Occult. Genuine, widely-accepted religions.

None but you put me in bind. I could spend more than a lifetime trying to get just one system right. Your request is not humanly possible to carry out. My request takes only a moment. If I am wrong what will it cost you?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

What do you think the 10 Commandments are? What do you think RELIGION is?

A guide that shows how badly we need a God to save us.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Do you honestly think that Christianity is EXEMPT from this? Your deity essentially says: "If you do not follow my rules, and if you do not love me, you're gonna PAY, boy."

But His love is not earned though some act on our part.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

What are you smoking, LordSword?

I was big on pot, but now I am high on God.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

What do I even say to this.
Do you understand anything you read, LordSword? Go back and read that.
"You're free if you do everything God says."

I'm free in my country so long as I obey the laws. Whats the difference?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Start recommending shit I should try to get on your god's good side, and I start to lose it.

If my God was not real you have no reason to get mad. Why get angry at some loonie who lives in a make believe world?

Your problem is that on some level this discussion is important to you cause you do believe there is a God, my book says you do as well.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

MY recommendation? Get educated. Start respecting other people and THEIR choices. (How many times have I said this to you, LordSword. You're absolutely RIDICULOUS)

My religion means war in all aspects of life to me. From the moment I wake up the war is on against everything that seeks to undermine my walk with God. Most often the fight is against myself but in times like this, its a struggle of ideas. I continue the fight cause it makes me a better Christian.
People who come against me force me to practice my faith better.

I am fan of the R-type games and many here remind me of the drive it takes to play. One man, one cause against so much opposition. Some here tell me to basically sell out and try some other "religion" but where is the compromise of their part. Its a war but not against you guys, my struggle is against the very reality that has been given for you perceive.

What authority says I am wrong anyway? I asked this a few posts back and got no answer. You (the reader) dont know & don't care, your happy where you are being plugged in to something thats sucking the life out of you.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

You dolt, there is no "right" or "wrong" opinion, provided no one hurts one another OVER their opinions.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

You're stomping all over everyone who doesn't believe in what you believe. That's so wrong, I can't even begin to explain. You seem not to understand though.[/b]

My religion means direction for me. My guide, the Bible, offers direction on what is right and wrong. It also gives guidance on defining the sources of right and wrong. What authority says its wrong for me to disagree and dialogue with people with opposing views.

I've sat down face to face with Muslims, Atheists, Jehova Whitnesses and hashed it out with them and they respected me more when I had answers for their questions and questions about their views. We even launched belief proposals against each other as well and walked away with no ill will. Often they are honorable opponents with well reasoned convictions because they have rule books too. You have no source of rules leaving you with no defense, no structure and no direction thus I offer you my own. Structure is the basis for all freedom in every discipline imagined. Please consider mine.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Then, you say that we're having our lives sucked out of us.

Who the bloody FUCK are you to judge how I lead my life?

You seriously embody most of what I hate about evangelism. Congratulations.

Our bodies are not made to cope with the stress of anger. I was raised by an angry atheist and have met many more afflicted with the same malady. Anger does suck the life out of you and it makes you a prisoner in its own way.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

I stand for the Iliad, a document that has proven its worth, can be seen & researched by others and discussed openly to the benefit of all.

I stand for Das Kapital, a document that has proven its worth, can be seen & researched by others and discussed openly to the benefit of all.

I stand for Mein Kampf, a document that has proven its worth, can be seen & researched by others and discussed openly to the benefit of all.

At last, after my long journey someone who is actually grounded in something we can all check.

As you know the word "religion" has many definitions. These describe my view of atheism:

Dictionary.com-->Religion
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience

Please tell me what Atheism means to you? I have covered many aspects of my beliefs but the atheists here have not. The atheistic views of my religion have been made quite clear. Can you take this discussion in a different direction?

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

You're right, many of us only have those silly, unreliable things like reason and logic and intellectual honesty and literature and scepticism and morality and ethics and science and politics and economics, mere piffle when having a discussion about humanity and its role in the universe.

I can say the same. My book does not demand that I blindly accept what is written. Proverbs 4:5, Proverbs 4:7 & Luke 11:10 are just a start.
As a person who depends on the concept of a God, I am not without historical proofs. I stated that my book has true prophetic messages that have come true. I also have the lives of faithful people throughout history and in my current situation that say that prayers do get answered.

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

Even virtuous men can perform just acts for wicked reasons. If you need a religious warrant to keep you from murdering or stealing or to perform good deeds in the name of your faith, then very clearly this should not be confused with morality.

The bible does not teach believers to do good works by their own will but through the will of God. If a believer knows the will of God (by studying the bible) that person wouldnt do wicked things.

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

Science, reason and the others I listed above are to be wholly credited in finally giving humans the understanding and courage of stepping away from that horrible period we call the dark ages and leading us into the age of enlightenment. Something we can all be grateful for. Thanks to science we no longer have to burn women to death for casting spells on neighbours and people like J. K. Rowling can even make a very good career writing novels depicting fictional wizards.

Science started with God in mind->
"The laws of nature are but the mathematical thoughts of God." (Euclid, 365 - 275 BC)
Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Science as you know it only denys God these guys believed why wouldnt you?Famous Scientists Who Believed in God

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Look, you lunatic.

We've said over and over again: atheism is a lack of belief. We don't believe in ANYTHING. We live without deities.

To go forth in life knowing that there is no guidance or love from a deity is more difficult, I think, than thinking Daddy God is up there to hug and kiss your boo-boos when you're down. We chose this way because we feel it's better to be honest with ourselves. I can see why people would turn to religion in times of pain or doubt; it's a very comforting thought. But to me, it's a lie. It makes you soft and warm thinking "golly gee, someone out there LOVES ME." But it's best not to delude yourself: you're just feeling down and out, and you need that feeling. You CRAVE that feeling. You want to feel loved and accepted.

I eagerly look forward to what Jackyboy has to say. Atheism is full of deities but to make yourselves look "smart" by using different terms.

Origin of the universe & life according to atheists: Chance (or probability) Despite the lack of proof.
Who controls the destiny of an atheist: The individual. This view is shared by some cults too.


I admit it my religion means support to me as well. My support does not come only from my God. My book calls for believers to rally together help one another & help the rest of the world under specific guidelines. You call yourself "good" but what does this term mean when ultimately you the atheist live in a world defined by no accountability.

Who says what is good when everyone is free to determine their own tastes under your system? Abuse of other people is condemned by the bible but how can you define abuse with the lack of a consistent authority?

My support by other people in my religion is much like the Power Rangers. We need each other for strength and we depend on a power beyond ourselves to overcome adversity which is proven again and again with successful social reforms throughout history in many different countries.

Originally Posted by sprouticus

Oh that is such fucking bullshit. You can spin the "prayers get answered" thing so easily it's mindblowing. I've had a recent string of good things happening in my life lately. If I were religious, I could easily scam you simpletons into thinking that I prayed for my good fortune. And you know what? Morons like you would believe me without a moment's hesitation. Show me proof that "prayers get answered."

Furthermore, its a proven scientific fact prayer has positive psychological benefits lending additional strength in times of hard work & persecution.
The Science of Prayer and Healing
This is outlined in biblical texts and repeated often in Christian history especially with missionaries.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Smelnick

You're seriously trying to convert people. Wow.

Sure my walk with God means doing just that. Sassafrass and everybody here are helping me with their contrasting views. Go back to the start of this thread and look at how this has come along. There are plenty of folks out there who read our posts but dont add their own statements.

My true aim is to reveal the natural outworking of my beliefs and coax the same from others. In doing this our audience has a chance to see what our beliefs are in action and Lord willing be persuaded by my stand to trust in Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

O man. All I had to do was read "Power Rangers" and I had a laughter fit.

I knew you would like that! I'm glad I can bring some happiness to you. The Christian is given figurative examples in the bible to live up to despite the pressure of the REAL world. By changing our perception of our circumstances we can become greater than the reality that is presented to us by others. (1 Samuel 17 & Ephesians 6:10-19)

On many occasions I had the chance to team up with folks from different denominations for one cause or another. Even though we came from different traditions be they old young or disabled my breast burned with pride as we stood shoulder to shoulder in prayer and clashed with the issues at hand with a unified front.
Even now I suspect that prayers have been fueling my efforts thus far.

Thanks to my unseen team out there, thank you for your support.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by RainMan

You cannot distance yourself from other components of mankind, nor reality.

Sure we can. Don't we do it all the time with the dreams that fuel our goals.
Consider Stephen Hawking or any other diasbled person that does great things despite the "reality" that they live in. Religion isn't always the stregnth that heroic people draw from but it provides a guide for those who don't know where to start. Thats the intent of the Christian faith, its a guide for us when we realize our crippled condition.

Originally Posted by RainMan

You don't have the capacity to see how this way of thinking is causing rather large fundamental problems in the world, which is sad. The only way that man can improve his situation is to acknowledge reality, no matter how terrible it is. The only way mankind can change reality, is to bear the responsibility of living himself.

Sassafrass told me that there is no real ultimate authority for direction, but your statements sound much like his.

What is the source for this insight that provides direction? Have you checked the source? Why do you trust statements like the one you typed if you don't know the source?

I ask this because I have intimate knowlege of my source which is the bible. I can see it, touch it, and check it with all the other materials and people that are attached to its texts. I know its history, the histories of its followers & the results of its knowlege in practice and misuse. Can you say the same about your source?

Originally Posted by RainMan

Have you never heard that pride is a most dangerous sin?

You've only convinced others that you have some serious psychological issues and are at the very least, a zealot.

Pride a sin? If you believe what the bible teaches in this area, why don't you be on my team? You would do great.
Whats wrong with zeal? My book is full of them. They had zeal because what they often fought for what is true. Consider for one minute the notion that I believe what I do because I have enough evidence and millions of other people in the world do too. ALL of us can't be wacked in the head. That the reason why scientists have gone so far as to make books on their findings in this area.

My religion means evidence!! Not just blind belief! The founders of my faith died because they would not stop telling people about their evidence.
I dont hope in some ritual, statue, or even myself. My hope is in the power that has changed my life and the lives of some of my friends and family.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Ahahhahaa o my sweet baby JESUS, you're fucking PRECIOUS.

"Hey guys what are your sources? MINE IS THE BIBLE."


The Bible is not exactly a great reference unless you're in a religiously-inclined discussion. The Bible isn't a source of fact so much as it is a source of inspiration.

Originally Posted by RainMan

My source is reality so I think its a bit foolhardy of you to continue trying to preach your points on which is a more formidable moral compass. You know little of my sources and in the end YOU are the one who requires sources, not I.

So you are saying that you have no source for direction but your own will. You can do whatever you want when you want ect.

Sassafrass & Rainman, is this the reality that you use as your source of direction?
I am confused I only want to understand. You insist that I am going the wrong way on the highway of life yet you give no map, you dont even point in some direction. You two are of no help at all yet you say you know whats right. By your words and lack of help you make me depend on my book even more. (John 6:67-69)

Originally Posted by RainMan

Sure thing. You still didn't answer my question.

Until you are ready to cut me some slack I will. You stand in judgment of my statements as if you are some kind of authority but in my view you are not. Are tough statements the best you have in helping others?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

What reality is that and why would it mean that they can't do great things?

What you believe affects what you can do. Some folks are told that they won't amount to much, they are told that their stupid, they are told they have psychologcial problems and these statements become real because they are believed.

You know helpful words help and hurtful words hurt. This is why the bible is of great use to me.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

There are around 4 billion people who aren't Christians; are they all 'wacked in the head'?

No, people have always wanted direction in living, the Christian walk does just that.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

So you don't have faith then?

Sure I do. I also have faith in my friends too. Not because they are my friends but they have proven themselves to be faithful.

The resulting evidences of John 14:16 is enough to sustain my faith.
Answered prayer is enough to sustain my faith.

Many of you say my experiences are not real. What makes you so sure?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Wrong......

No, we didn't say you're going the wrong way. I have said AT LEAST A DOZEN TIMES that you are, by all means, entitled to believe whatever you want to believe, PROVIDED you don't IMPOSE ON OTHERS, AND THEIR BELIEFS.

This is the parth that confuses me.
Its ok for you to impose on others what YOU believe but I cant?

You've done it in bold capital letters again & again!

Do as I say but not as I do. Sounds like my drunken, angry atheist father, you must have read the same book he did.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

At which point in time did *I* personally impose ANYTHING on you?

Bold text, harsh statements & coarse language to start. Your repeated recommendations come across like some drill sergeant.

My religion means respect. I am called to refrain from yelling, cursing, or anything that makes me harm the message I am encouraged to send which is "believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life". You show me by the way you send your recommendations of what you mean by "a good person".

The rules of respect I follow do work & I hope I have done a good job in modeling them thus far. As for passing judgment on the practice of my beliefs and on a God you don't know, you show me your version of respect of other people and their beliefs. You have no respect because you have no foundation for defining such a concept. If you do you dont show it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

O, so to you, bold repetitive text is harsh. Well, maybe if you read the first time things were said, I wouldn't have to make points flash like neon bar signs.

Suppose I did read your posts. Consider that I know how you would react.

You dont believe my testimony or that of the bible. Your recommendations have been taken into account. Ok.

I still have a book to follow and not your statements. Sorry. My religion means following the texts in my book the bible & not the words of people.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

Why don't you just get one of these.

I have the bible on audio CD. My study of the scriptures has come along way with that.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

You obviously have a different definition of evidence than everybody else.

With all the different systems of belief in the world, do really you mean everybody, or just people who live up to your standards?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

If you can prove that your prayers are answered then by all means prove it.

I would love to. My prayer is for another person with the same message as mine will approach you in person. This person will be more adept with the bible than I and more educated to boot. Most importantly despite your current stand, you will want to listen to what this person has to say.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

I still don't understand what your fathers atheism has to do with anything.

I have seen many here respond just like he did in this discussion.
It the way an atheist acts that I am keen to. His brother my uncle has the same mentality. I have mixed it up with atheists for a long time and see the same predictable pattern. Even if they are aware of it they still cant help themselves.

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

I have a slight lean towards nihilism in that I don’t believe life has an objective meaning or purpose. I think it is a nonsensical question anyway. I am as close to certain as I can be that the universe was not created specifically for me so I could be here right now neither to participate in this discussion nor to play Guitar Hero 2 when time permits. As for the process of evolution which brought me here, it too did not intend for me to be here. Evolution does not know I am here. It won’t notice when I am gone. The stars look down, that’s all they do; they don’t care. My body does not contain an immaterial soul. At the instant of the destruction of my brain my consciousness will end with nothing beyond: no eternal hellfire, no heavenly paradise. We’re the only species on the planet that knows it is going to die. If I manage to hold out long enough I will witness the death of everyone I will have come to love.

Thank you very much. I appreciate this frank & honest answer. Of all the people I chat with you are one of the very few who has been so open.

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

Instead of falling into wish thinking, I decide to take on this astonishing fact with some intellectual and moral courage.

What is courage in the face of a meaningless existence?

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

It's entirely incorrect to label atheism as just another religion. Everything I described above may be a necessary condition for atheism but it is not a sufficient condition.

It is still another belief system that affects a persons decision making. True there are different shades but often people shape their belief system to fit their comfort.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

What response was that? The majority of the respondees only seem to be quite irritated that you fail to offer any evidence for your position despite repeatedly saying that you have some (although your lack of understanding of what evidence actually means might explain this). Your posts have painted you as a person who is amazingly stubborn and pig-headed....

Judgemental posts like this. So consumed with winning you compromise what you say with the way you say it.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Pangalin

Do you even understand what "courage" means? Courage is about steeling yourself to press forward in spite of great fear and foreboding. Believing firmly that existence is utterly meaningless and still resolving to grind through it is deeply courageous. If you firmly believe that in the end everything will be all right and we'll all get mai-tais in Heaven, you don't need any courage because, for you, there is nothing to fear.

Well the Christain does have plenty to fear but we do have a reason to have courage(salvation through Jesus).
Its not easy going out out and taking it on the chin for Jesus. In some countries being a Christian is illegal. I believe I will get my reward but standing up for what I believe about my maker does in some cases require incredible courage Such action has killed other believers and could kill me too.

Originally Posted by agreatguy6

Honestly, I have neither faith in religion nor in science.

I'm Buddhist, but it doesn't really seep into my life.
Things ARE.

Do you have a particular deity in your belief system?
What shores up your convictions if you have any?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

Could you rephrase that in english perhaps.

Sorry its the Yoda in me creeping out again.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

I feel that if someone seems to be (knowingly or not) trying to wind people up by insulting their ethics and declaring themselves to the the only one in the right without a shred of evidence for their stace, then I feel I have the right to be judgmental.

I am challenging the ethics of others and searching out the source of everyones beliefs. Its been open season on my position from the start but I have refrained from name calling.

The best proof we can wrestle with is this. (Ecclesiastes 3:11 releates to this)
People throughout history have been concerned with the afterlife and spiritual concepts. No atheistic culture has ever been discovered & even in our modern time, belief in such concepts has survived the most thorough mental conditioning & violent repression. The notion that the human condition has a spiritual dimension is widely accepted.

Generally on the matter of an afterlife religions have these two basic principals.
1. A persons current life and actions affect their spiritual condition before & after death.
2. There is some kind of mechanism that sorts people out on the basis of some kind of system.

In this area my religion means a type of security like insurance on a car. In the event of death I am covered. As for why I am covered by a Christian system, its founder made a statement of
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me
this statement and others like it in the Bible sets Christianity apart from all other religions. This statement of exclusive direction is in stark contrast to the other major religious systems being practiced today.
The Bible offers teaching in the area of specific direction tward the afterlife that other religious systems lack. Like any good insurance policy the Christian plan for salvation leaves no room for guess work. It lays out what is covered under the deal and the ramifications of not being covered.

I'm critical of the atheist because of the denial of a God on the basis of faith without some kind of back up plan.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

I assume you've never heard of the athiests' wager.

Yes but from the perspective of an agnostic friend of mine.
I countered this with the specific nature of the Christian salvation message.

ALL other religons say you have to "work" your way into heaven and yes, In times past this docterine has crept into the Christian community but it is not supported by the bible.(Ephesians 2:8-9)

The Christian message says merely "believe that Jesus saves you" (Acts 4:8-12 & Romans 10:9)

The atheist wager also does not hold water because it has no basis for assuming authority in spiritual matters. Not believing doesn't affect the two basic spiritual principals that have been understood by humanity since the dawn of civilization.

1. A persons current life and actions affect their spiritual condition.
2. There is some kind of mechanism that sorts people out on the basis of some kind of system.

The atheist must come to the realization that no matter what they think there is a universe with laws we must conform to.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

And how do you know that we are not merely labouring under the delusion that we have free will, when in fact all of our decisions are made by forces outside of our control?

Because the bible tells me so. (Deuteronomy 6:5, Jeremiah 7:23, Hosea 6:6, John 14:15) God loves me enough to give me the choice to love him. Without free will Heaven & Hell wouldnt need to exist.

Originally Posted by Magi

Wait, back up plan for what?

In case there is a God. Many people assume things but dont check what they know to see if its the truth.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Except for those that don't believe in an afterlife, such as Shinto. Stop overstating things, you zealot.

Yes, I am a zealot thank you. My argument to atheists is directed in favor of an afterlife.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Ah, no sir, that is hardly the catholic message. Not even the protestant message. Which branch of Christianity would you be speaking for, then? Belief in Jesus is not enough. Belief and atonement for sins, are. Which takes ritual.

And where is the biblical passage to support this assumption?
Ephesians 2:5 & Galatians 1:6-10 is my answer to those "christians" who say that I have to work my way into heaven.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Since the dawn of civilization? Which civilization would that be? Care to back this up with some historical proof?

I wish I had the time to name my sources but I dont sorry. I've read books in the field of archeology and this is a claim from the field.

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Stop talking about things you clearly have no knowledge of, you uneducated prat.

Here we go again with the name calling. We show ourselves to be educated when we practice concepts that we know are virtuous. If you are in need of a guide to learn & practice respect I recommend a NIV Bible. 1 Corinthians 13:4-13

Originally Posted by Denicalis

You're the worst sort of christian, Lordsword. You cheapen your religion with your zealotry, you hurt intelligent, logical christians with your bullshit, and you insult intelligent people by attempting to argue your points in such a haphazard, hackneyed fashion. You've heard the lady doth protest too much? You seem to scream your faith in every post you make. Who are you trying to convince, us or yourself?

Give it up, already.

By what standard do you judge me by? Obviously you have one to judge the bible as well, please show us your source of superior information. If you can't please, please reconsider your position.

Originally Posted by kinkymagic

Until you can give some evidence that the bible is a valid source of truth please refrain from using it as some sort of infallible guide in any serious argument.

I use it because its the best guide I have. The principals of living that are in the bible have improved my life and formed the foundation upon which my country was built. This is why I am so pro bible. The book is the foundation of "what my religion means to me".
Many of you judge the way I practice my belief as if you have a superior source of wisdom. Show me the source of your wisdom that places you in the position to judge others with such religious zeal.

You and others here are unified in this practice as if ALL of you a following the same source material, this seems like a religious practice to me.

There's nowhere I can't reach.