lincoln, a great man?

Great people aren't always good people, in fact that's mostly been the case historically.

Lincoln is one of our greatest presidents but he wasn't exactly a saint. That still doesn't mean he wasn't pretty awesome compared to his contemporaries and met a challenge that would cause most to burn out.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Dudes, the Confederacy totally would've abolished slavery because Robert E. Lee hated it. Seriously.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

A lot of libertarians like to rag on Lincoln because they think it makes them seem interesting, but more often than not you get the honest-to-God Confederate apologists like Von Mises Institute contributors.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Democrats were the racist party, though. The Dixiecrat schism occurred because Southern whites felt the party was getting away from them.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

So hey, I'm wondering what George Bush not actually doing much to help black people has to do with this thread.

I was speaking idiomatically.

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Why judge him and in judging him like his are we no better than the Ku Klux Klan groups that write hit pieces of MLK or Malcom X?

Of course we're better. Lincoln's long-term plan for race relations involved sending the niggers back to Africa, and we know how well that's turned out.

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A few things not covered in high school level history is freed blacks were allowed to own slaves and did so in great numbers. The main problem is people either unable to fit parts of history in their new age political correct world or want to leave out what they can't explain.

It doesn't have to be explained because there weren't any white slaves. Nothing about black slave owners challenges pre-conceived norms about the American slave trade.

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What I object to is when people judge history by today's standards.

My Renaissance professor keeps telling us that "The Dark Ages" is a prejudiced term, but I still can't think of any way that the period didn't suck ass compared to Rome.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I don't think surmising that Lincoln was a crafty dude constitutes a real interpretation of his character or a credit to his legacy. People can't stomach the idea that Lincoln could be kind of racist and also an abolitionist, but intellectual inconsistencies aren't uncommon for great Americans.

Jefferson was the biggest slave-owning hypocrite the country has ever known, who unlike some other slave owning founders didn't emancipate his on his death. Yet Jefferson still set a precedent for man's universal right in the States and had no illusions about his own status as a slave owner.

Lincoln was a free soiler before he was an abolitionist, and while some people like to speculate that he began to increasingly view blacks as equal it's not important. What is important is that what was accomplished during Lincoln's presidency, and by no small part due to his direct involvement, are the most important achievements in American history. Even Lincoln dieing at the time he did was arguably for the best depending on how you view his Reconstruction plan.

Trying to think of Lincoln a secret darkie lover tries to ignore the fact that he was human and a product of his times. Even John Brown, for all his admirable qualities was nonetheless a murderer. The fact that these people could do so much good despite being so seriously flawed is what I feel makes them great.

How ya doing, buddy?

don't flame me bro

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I don't want anybody thinking I'm a moderator or anything.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

"They're not gonna crush our freedom!"
-Captain Lavender (Abe Lincoln's Clone)

There's nowhere I can't reach.

He just didn't "get" the internet.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

So anybody notice all the proud Abe Lincoln memorial editorial cartoons after Obama's victory, I'm pretty sure Lincoln would be more stupefied than ecstatic.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?