Villains in RPGs, that you just couldn't wait to put in their place.

The dialog between Algus and Miluda is great. Algus says it's the will of heaven that commoners should be born animals to be used by nobles. Miluda says that God would never say such a thing and Algus responds: "Animals have no god!".

The thing with Krelian is that his intentions were more misguided than evil. He just wanted to unite humanity with God in order to prevent the kind of senseless tragedy that struck Sophia (and the suffering that resulted from it). He didn't believe that human beings could ever truly solve their own problems without help. The problem is that he commited many horrific acts in pursuit of this goal. He definitely got off too easy though. I think Miang was probably more hateful. Especially with how she manipulates Ramsus and then dumps him. That part was just plain mean. She also enjoyed teasing Grahf. Plus Miang is the queen of kills in 'gears by far. (indirectly)

Shakahn was an ass through and through the same as Stein (Bishop Stone). Another ass was Rhade from Ogre Battle 64. No redeeming qualities.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

The thing is Miang wasn't really human to begin with. In the end she was merely an extension of her own creator (Deus).

True, but then everyone on that planet is spawned from the Deus system anyways. Abel was the only exception.

It's precisely because Krelian was shown to be human rather than a monster that it wouldn't have felt right killing him. At least not for me.

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

Hmm, I don't remember that line. Was this during the fight with Miluda?

Yup. It's worth it in FFT to purposefully extend some fights to read the extra dialog. It gives you more insight on some of the characters.

Originally Posted by Gechmir

Luca/Rugal Blight from Suikoden II. Most evil fucking badguy ever thought up. In all my years of gaming, I have yet to see a more twisted bastard.

Luca was brutish and also a sucker for reasons known by those who have played the game. Plus proclaiming himself "the true face of evil" in his final moments was a bit much. Still, he was fun to watch and it's a shame that he doesn't get more screentime.

Who do I think is the most twisted? Kefka Palazzo, of course. He wanted to destroy hope itself.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

Not just Abel; Anyone who was decended from Abel as well.

Of course. Kim, Lacan/Grahf, and Fei. AKA "Anonelbe".

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

Ha ha ha, now I really have to play this game. In the end Luca is just a normal human right? Guys like him are the most despicable; being a normal human, all it would take is a good sword to the neck, but because he's as crafty as he is crazy, you can never get a good enough chance.

He's not quite normal in that he's ridiculously strong. It takes quite a bit to take him down. The whole sequence is pretty cool.

Originally Posted by SOLDIER

Is he the main bad guy in Suikoden II by the way?

Sort of, but not in the grand scheme of things. I know that sounds confusing, but you'll know what I mean if you play the game. Just trying to avoid spoilers here.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

Megavolt, don't you think "destroying hope" is a bit much as well?

What I meant is that Luca takes the time to inform us of the obvious. Kefka is flamboyant, but only within the context of the game. He never straight up says "I'm evil!", because that would be silly. When Luca said what he said there, it's like the writers were telling the players, "this is the ultimate evil villain and we're going to tell you directly to make sure you know". We knew that Luca was evil through his actions, and for him to inform us like that seemed a bit unnatural and pretentious. It was only that line though. When he tells a villager to squeal like a pig, that works great because it's completely within the context of the game. It's just a minor nitpick and I otherwise consider Luca to be awesome for the purpose he serves in the game. I wish that Luca had stayed around longer though. Luca and

Spoiler:

Jowy

made for an interesting duo the short while they were working together.

You know who really bugged me in Suikoden II? Leon Silverberg. The guy is a total arrogant prick. I wanted to get at him more than I did Luca. He was so damn pompous and condescending. Especially in his conversation with Shu near the end of the game.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

What made you think that it was like that? Luca was certain of death at this point, but made sure not to go out with a whimper by making a lasting impression. He talked about how many hundreds it took to kill him while he murdered people by the thousands. As he says, his malice was sublime-- to the point where there was no better description of "sinister". He was the true face of evil.

I know what the intent was. My issue is with a small part of the execution. I couldn't help but to grin in disbelief at that kind of boasting. It really seemed like the writers were stroking their egos there. I can only hope that you understand what I mean even if you don't agree.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

The funny thing with Leon is that he was more of an antihero than a villain.

That's true moreso in the first game, I suppose. In the second game he's the one who unleashes the final boss on you, and even if he's only the enemy tactician (which in Suikoden II seems to mean more than it did in Suikoden though; he and Shu really seem to get more liberty in making decisions for each army), it still bugs me that the guy gets to avoid all accountability and slip away. He has no integrity at all. He just jumps in with whichever side he thinks is going to win.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

Leon unleashed the Beast Rune so that the party could incapacitate it; not because he had some sort of wish for revenge.

I never said he wanted revenge. He throws it at you as some sort of final challenge. He says something like, "let's see if you're really worthy to lead this country". Anyways, that example was only to show how Leon is never held accountable for his actions. That point still stands. The people who were truly loyal and truly believed in the rightness of Highland paid a hefty price. Leon did not.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

Leon's modus operandi is to end war as quickly as possible, with the fewest casualties. Like

Spoiler:

Jowy

, he sided with Highland because it seemed like the quickest way to end the war.

Leon seemed to think that Highland was best equipped to lead the country into the future. (you should edit that big spoiler there) Obviously he was wrong. Of course he'd never acknowledge that or be there to take the fall with his supposed compatriots.

Originally Posted by Generic Badass

He has a lot of integrity.

Leon doesn't even join you in the first game until it seems for certain that you're going to win the war. I didn't see any moral soundness in him. He wasn't about to fight for what was right against difficult odds. He's only there to lend a hand to whoever seems stronger to him. And he obviously has no qualms with planning cowardly traps like he did in the meeting between

Spoiler:

Riou and Jowy at Muse.

Integrity? I don't see it. Leon was totally ruthless.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I'm going to explain things in the simplest way I can, and if you still don't understand, then it's not my problem:

Leon's unfeeling approach to things is exactly what is wrong with people like him and why people gravitate to people like Riou who aren't jaded and haven't lost their sense of self. Riou might be naive, innocent, whatever you want to call it, but he never sacrifices his basic humanity for the sake of "doing whatever it takes". That's what makes him a true hero, and why his counterpart, despite doing what he did with the belief that it would end the war more quickly, ultimately took the wrong path.

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