[Classic] The Storyline of Final Fantasy VI *Spoilers*

The beauty of FFVI is that Kefka does destroy the world and yet the hopes and dreams of the characters allow them to pick themselves up and continue living. If it's the bleakness that bothers you, it's pretty obvious in the ending that life was returning to the world and that it would soon recapture its former glory. Rebirth is definitely a big part of what FFVI is all about. FFVI has a character-driven story. Some people can't deal with the absence of a linear plot to push things forward in the World of Ruin, but it's no secret that that aspect of the game is polarizing for how it differs from the World of Balance. Either it propels the game to greatness for how it dares to let the game be carried on the strength of its characters or it reduces the game for leaving you without the Empire conflict that played a role the first segment of the story. For me, the former has always been the case. I love the World of Ruin and how it serves to put the emphasis on the cast even more than the first half did. At that point you're pushing forward because you care about these characters and not because the plot is forcing to go you from scenario to scenario. Either way, it's a terribly old argument and one that I'm sick of talking about. I should think that you'd have gotten over your problem with this by now and come to a final decision, but I see that you're still uncertain. In the end you may simply have to accept that some people see something you don't. Everyone has their own way of judging and appreciating stories. However, if you're serious about trying to develop a new perspective on FFVI's story and aren't just searching for like opinions in order to validate and reinforce your own, then reading this might help:

http://mysite.verizon.net/respxabq/ethergeist/id25.html

Watching this might help too:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23185.html

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

I am asking for some more insight because the storyline is often brought up amongst my friends & people online and it is spoken of like it is equal to perfection.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

This thread is about how highly overrated I believe the storyline is especially given the things that left us hanging in the world of balance.

Yeah, okay. I hope you see the difference there.

Originally Posted by Borg1982

The characters in say, FF4, have their reasons to fight based upon what happened to them or their families. I can detect an extreme urge to go to the moon as quickly as possible and save the world.

I don't. The only one who had a personal tie to the goings on of the moon was Cecil. Just based on how much you love the game, you're giving FFIV credit for things it doesn't go for. None of the characters are driven by revenge in FFIV. (except for Edge up to but not after Rubicant) Ultimately, they're united under one 'save the world' banner like in every other RPG. That's why it has been explained to you the importance of FFVI shooting for something different. FFVI attempted to give each character their own story and motivation while maintaining a central theme to the story. I think it succeeded and perhaps you didn't, but your reasoning doesn't strike me as based on anything substantive. Only some skewed comparisons to FFIV. Not enough suspense? They had to scan their minds? Please. They didn't scan their minds for anything that wasn't tied in to who they were in the first portion of the game. The only exception is Setzer, whose story we didn't know about until Daryl's Tomb.

I'll give FFVI's story a 9.5 because nothing is perfect, but it was still more daring for its time than most RPG stories are today, even featuring interactive elements like the Emperor's Banquet scenario which haven't been reproduced in the era of FFVII clones. Few RPG stories can compete which didn't draw something from it. What do people generally regard as the best RPG stories? Xenogears? Suikoden II? Final Fantasy Tactics? I think FFVI can still hold its own against those, so yeah, 9.5. It's a classic, taking what FFIV tried to do in terms of creating a dramatic overarching story built around specific character stories and expanding upon it considerably. Just that it had an open-ended second half. That might make it a pain for JRPG purists, but I think it adds to the ageless credibility of the game. I think it means more for an RPG to pull something off in non-linear fashion so as to involve the player than for an RPG to be like a Xenosaga and hit you with a deluge of cutscenes.

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That...is some pretty crazy stuff, Forsety. I didn't know about that. Although I'd hate to think that some people would suddenly change their mind about the game because of it, which they shouldn't, it makes for some interesting discussion.

Edit: That Maria thing isn't certain though, is it? It seems like that one was solely Wiki info and not the word for word stuff that LockeCole translated. Just like the Thamasa thing.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

If the Maria thing is true, then it sure does make FFVII seem a lot more similar to FFVI than it already was, minus the 'mother earth' thing of FFVII. Not that it's a problem for me, since I like both games, but it could be surprising for people who like one and despise the other. Oftentimes having played one first seems to result in a lower opinion of the other. And usually the *largely irrelevant, but I digress* argument of post-FFVI Final Fantasy fans against FFVI is that Kefka had no motivation or backstory, which this would seem to change. It doesn't change the nature of the World of Ruin though, which is the other thing that irks some people.

I'm definitely interested in whatever new details might be found out from this thing. There must be more of those character history pages in there besides just Kefka and Celes. Maybe it'll cover more on Shadow's past than the mysterious stuff we see in the game. It might make certain the vaguely hinted relationship between Shadow and Relm.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Forsety

For sake of staying slightly on the original topic -- I gave the plot about a 8.5 as well. Nostalgia played a large part, but I can't give it any higher than that because I do realise there was a lot left unresolved and plenty that was just never touched on at all. The books Square shove out always do this, but at least in most of the games (FF7 and such...) the majority of what is mentioned is mostly confirmations for things people already suspected, rather than being entirely new information nobody would have ever guessed in a million years. (ex; Prime Minister Kefka?) Eheh.

What was unresolved? I thought the various character stories were tied up pretty well. Even the smaller stuff like Duane and Katarin. Sure, Banon disappears, but that's actually more excusable than Rowd completely vanishing from Suikoden II, if just because the end of the world makes it safe to assume a lot of things. I won't even get into the second disc of Xenogears.

Prime Minister Kefka is just a title. FFVI never had a political storyline that was THAT intricate, but then look at the Wutai versus Shinra war element of FFVII. That's pretty fuzzy and not touched upon much. FFVII has a lot of muddled elements anyways that make it difficult to determine the nature of the Sephiroth and Jenova relationship, which is why theories have always floated around. Not to mention the ambiguous and frankly unsatisfying ending, which actually seems to conflict with what they show in Advent Children. How about the Rinoa = Ultimecia stuff in FFVIII? I never gathered that from playing the game. What I might agree with is this notion of a close relationship between Celes and Kefka. If it's suggested in the game, then it's only barely so, and pretty much only through the way that Kefka gives Celes a chance to rejoin them and goes berserk when she stabs him. But again, it doesn't hurt the story in the game, though it opens up the floodgates of doubt as to what else might've been minimized or removed.

Just out of curiosity then, what RPGs would you consider to have 'the best' stories, or at least 'better' stories than FFVI which merit scores of 9 and over? I can think of a number of RPGs myself that have better or at least more 'complex' plots, but I can think of few that deliver their stories as well as FFVI. Even so, I think an 8.5 score is fair, depending on how you look at it. I look at the core plot as something seperate from the storytelling. FFVI has a simpler plot compared to some RPGs (however, the way it's structured is fairly complex), but the way it's told through its cast is what gives it its power, and is ultimately the most important aspect of a story for me. Other stories have more going for them in terms of the plot, but the storytelling isn't necessarily as good.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Rasputin

I personally don't think SIX's story is overated since I never really hear people raving about it.

Indeed. And yet there are always people asking, 'what's so great about it'? Damn anime whores eat up Chrono Trigger but criticize FFVI. It's not fair. I love Chrono Trigger, but why must it be the only pre-PS1 RPG that escapes any kind of criticism from the post-FF7 RPGer crowd? Because of the Lavos effect, which Jenova and Deus copied? Bah. Appropriately enough, the extra backstory of Kefka makes him seem more and more similar to Sephiroth in terms of his origin story and descent into madness. And I always thought their backstories were similar anyhow, what with how they were both experiments gone wrong and the products of evil empires bent on world domination.

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Maybe people who rave about SEVEN and TEN are just louder.

Ten might have a more 'clean and concise' *cough*cliched*cough* story in some respects than FF6, but that doesn't mean its content is more compelling (in fact, I think ten's cast is terrible), and there's nothing special about an overly linear JRPG storytelling approach. The Lete River split in FF6 is more unique than any storytelling device of ten. Yet ten has the dream of the fayth business and a giant tick supervillain, which apparently makes it great. Not to mention sliding down a wire and the legendary laughing scene. How rad.

Seven is whole different animal. I like it a lot, but there are definitely problems in the details of the story, and I don't think the writers themselves were sure of where they wanted to go with it, which is evident in the cliff-hanger ending. And Red XIII with kids? I thought he was the last of his kind? So what explanation do newly revised Ultimanias have for that one?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Forsety

Celes and Locke's romance subplot which pretty much died entirely after their scene in Albrook. Though I know there are some hints of feelings between them on the solitary island if you let Cid die, since she has his bandanna when she attempts to kill herself, I'm not sure that's canon since you can save him anyway and it's still just an extra scene proving she liked him rather than any actual resolution involving their feelings for each other.

I kind of like that they never confirm it. I thought it kept it sincere. How the FF games went overboard with the love stuff afterwards is something I don't get. The only exception was IX, which I thought handled its love story pretty well, but I still have more of a soft spot for Locke and Celes. It may never have progressed beyond a sort of close friendship or puppy love, but it was convincing, and I think everyone can believe based on what they saw that Locke and Celes got together afterwards.

Originally Posted by Forsety

My main reasoning for a 8.5 rather than a 9 or a 9.5 is simply that the cast drove the plot up to a point, and then as with many people, I had a slight issue with the way the WoR was setup. No longer was it really driven by the characters but instead with generic dialogue shared between the whole cast (Having Edgar in the team, or having Relm, it didn't matter as instead of a specific line from the character it would be a generic text string that all characters shared -- it was obvious because such lines were simply in quotations rather then actually following a name.)

Ah, the World of Ruin... Well, it had to be that way I suppose given the nature of being able to recruit who you wanted and in whatever order, and the nature of the open-ended gameplay. I didn't mind the "Let's take Shadow to Thamasa!" type stuff. Each character did have unique lines of dialog for their sidequests, and it was still their personal struggles that took the spotlight. Just that instead of being driven by the characters and the predetermined pacing, it's driven by the characters and you. There's one notable exception to what you're saying though, and that's Gau's concluding story, where characters play specific roles and have specific lines while they're dressing him up and such. Also, I believe that Celes is the specific character who talks with Locke after he tries to revive Rachel.

Originally Posted by Forsety

As for better storylines, it's hard to tell. I loved the way FF6 was setup, and because they are remaking FF4 on the DS (with added plot and a stronger emphasis on the love triangle as well) I have some hopes that maybe they'll remake FF6 and at least attempt to rectify the last half of the game by adding a little bit more substance to the storyline. It wouldn't hurt to see some flashback scenes involving Celes and Kefka, to show a slight humanization of his character at least in regards to one of the main characters.

I fear that there may be more to lose in the process if they aren't careful, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

Originally Posted by Foresty

Games with better plot progressions though... maybe Tales of the Abyss, as much of a problem as I had with some of that game it at the very least had a pretty solid storyline start to finish, which involved the entire cast and never banished one to being worthless as the game's plot progressed. I'm sure that's why many games focus on smaller casts at any rate is it's easier to keep a character written stronger in the storyline so that you never feel someone is "dead weight".

Hmm, I haven't played that one. As for Persona 2, I've only played a little ways into it. I imagine that one has to slog through Innocent Sin in order to get the full effect though, right?

Originally Posted by Forsety

Final Fantasy 6 had a lot of great characters but it had it's share of dead weight without a doubt. Especially as the game went on and their plot threads were resolved, they lost their meaning and it became hard to keep them written in the storyline because of it.

One of the reasons that I do hold the game in high regard is because the characters manage to remain involved in the story. They all maintain an investment beyond just being there to support a lead character. In a game like Final Fantasy Tactics, a lot of the guest characters are involved in the story, and then when they join your team, they simply stop being involved. Or in Xenogears, the second disc focuses so exclusively on Fei and Elly that you'd hardly know the supporting cast was there anymore if it weren't for them picking up their Omnigears. FFVI does a pretty job of giving every character some kind of individual focus, even if some like Relm and Strago (who suffer from appearing late in the WoB story, but they're functional) are weaker than the others. FFVII, which has a smaller cast of characters, actually has a harder time keeping characters like Barret and Red XIII involved in the plot throughout the duration. It was terribly odd for me when I got to the Northern Crater and Tifa asked to be placed in the party. It's like, "okay, the game needs her for the next scene and they couldn't think of a way to justify it". Freya and Amarant are pretty much dead weight in FFIX as well, and Quina is, well, Quina.

Basically, I think FFVI handles its large cast pretty well, all things considered. It's not perfect, but nothing is, and it could've been worse. Look at Chrono Cross.

Oh, and Banon becomes Duncan. Strange that Banon was written out (Arvis disappears too), and then Duncan, a character who may as well have been all but forgotten, shows up with the same sprite but a different color pallette. I'll admit that Banon vanishing was a bit odd, but fortunately the themes of the game do go deeper than the surface story of Empire versus Returners. If it was anything but the end of the world, I might've had more of a problem with it. But the fact that the world does get totally rearranged was drastic enough for me to accept that Banon and co. simply ceased to be of any importance. Our characters had nothing left to rely upon but their own strength and that's how the story continued.

FELIPE NO

Just to make it clear, I'm a fan of FFIV. The cast is probably my second favorite in the series and the story keeps you hooked until the end, which is exactly how a linear RPG should be. I just don't compare it to FFVI that much. Only to say that I feel IV, V, and VI are the best generation of Final Fantasy. My favored Final Fantasies are VI, VII, XII, V, and IV. (and Tactics, if you want to consider it) I care little for the rest, decent though some of the games may be.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Borg1982

I think my final thought regarding the point of this thread -- although not a closing comment (keep voting, sharing thoughts!) -- is that some people were looking for FFVI to do certain things when they witnessed the awesome world of balance plot. For those people, what they expected simply didn't happen. Other gamers understand that's how the storyline unfolded, and thus they chose to immerse themselves into the characters' storylines in the WoR. And so, the end result was more of a philosophical feel than a straight up "save the world, get revenge, find out the truth, and celebrate when its over" type deal.

That makes sense. I think that the core story and themes of the game which Terra and the cast represent (but especially Terra, whose story begins and ends the game) are enough to keep the game consistent and cohesive through the two differing halves. Some people don't. I think I would actually like the game less were it not for the open-ended second part, but others would've liked it more if it had retained the same kind of pacing as the first half.

The philosophical bit is not unlike how it is with appreciating FFXII, which has quickly established that one as a love or hate title.

Originally Posted by Forsety

I think one of the things I did appreciate about the WoR (despite my gripes with other aspects to it) was simply that it dealt maybe a little more realistically than most of the other "omg we saved the world!1!1!" RPG plots, in that they had to simply save what they could -- it wasn't a cut and dry "everything works out perfectly in the end as long as we try our hardest!" ending and I appreciated that. Sometimes you just have to deal with the hand you are dealt and I think the characters just did just that, and quite beautifully I might add.

Definitely. I don't think that any FF game has been as bold since then. FFVI didn't just dangle the doomsday threat like every other RPG does. It dared to go there and the characters benefitted from it. Whether or not the plot benefitted from it seems to be the main issue in the discussion over just how good the storyline is. Either the sacrifice was for the greater good or it just made things worse. I might be biased as a gamer, but I'm glad that the videogame aspect of the game was permitted to carry the story a bit. Something that bugs me about many RPGs as of late is when the experience feels like it's on rails. Even Jade Empire turned out to be quite linear. So even though some self-proclaimed story fans (not that I want to reignite the age old story versus gameplay argument) cry bloody murder over the WoR, I think it gives the game a sense atmosphere and realism which it otherwise wouldn't have attained.

Originally Posted by Forsety

It also made the villain look a good deal more menacing that he was actually able to do something, rather than be stopped at every turn. He went a good deal further than most villains ever did (and still to this day ever have done) which was very cool IMO.

Kefka is surely one of the most effective and memorable villains ever. He's not a deep character, which I know makes some people mad with rage over trying to understand the hooplah, but if actions speak louder than words, then Kefka is still one of the standout villains in the genre for accomplishing what he did and doing it with style. If he seems cliched now it's because things were different when he first came around. All we had before Kefka were armor-clad dark warriors with glowing eyes who spent the whole game stating their vague ambitions and evilness before you shut them up. Kefka broke the mold. After that I think Magus is the first villain I can remember to have a fully fleshed out story.

Jam it back in, in the dark.