Are RPG's getting worse every 5 years? (List your top 10 RPG's ever to help!)

There are a lot of RPGs that I like, so it's tough, but I'll try in no particular order:

Final Fantasy VI
Chrono Trigger
Earthbound
Super Mario RPG
Final Fantasy Tactics
Ogre Battle 64
Star Ocean 2
Deus Ex
Legend of Mana
Valkyrie Profile

I grew up with the 16-bit era (started with 8-bit, but I didn't have much of an awareness of the RPG genre at the time), and even going back to play RPGs that I missed from that period, I still find myself enchanted by the older approach that leaves some room for imagination. I like the idea of going out to a mysterious dungeon and essentially making the story happen. Even today I get more immersed in games like Breath of Fire V and SMT Nocturne that essentially use gameplay to tell the story rather than inundating you in dialog. I can't say that I'm fond of the interactive movie approach of many RPGs today. Ironically it's what is likely my favorite RPG (Final Fantasy VI) that did something to push things in that direction, but that one had the right balance in my opinion. So it comes as no surprise to me that some folks from today who claim to play for story find themselves annoyed with the World of Ruin. For me the World of Ruin is essentially what propels the game to greatness with its more open ended approach. (not that the first half isn't awesome, but the freedom of the second half brings balance) Unfortunately it was only the first half that had far reaching effects in the genre. It should've been for the better but Final Fantasy VII (which I do personally think is a pretty good RPG regardless) has ensured that a perversion of the good things which now do more to take the player out of the game for the purpose of putting the story first have had the greater influence. For me to find myself immersed in an RPG, the game needs to find a way of letting me push the story foward here or there without making me feel like I'm just on rails with the only input being the clicks through waves of dialog and cutscenes. It can be as simple as a game having some fun skill systems to tinker with in the meantime, but although it's hard to pin down what I'll really like or won't care for, I know that I gravitate towards RPGs that use their stories to serve the gameplay and not the other way around. It's the interaction between the player and the game that makes gaming special, and RPGs should be at the forefront of this by using the set up of the story as an opportunity to create exciting gameplay and an immersive world.

I surely have a soft spot for the late NES to late 16-bit range of RPGs the same as you. So I do have this feeling that RPGs as a whole haven't been quite as good since. But there are still standouts from the generations that have come after that deserve mention as well. So I won't go as far as to say that RPGs are getting worse. Just that they seem to have to do more to keep my attention for some reason. I think it varies from person to person depending on which RPGs they played first and on their individual tastes. The same as I see many PS1 RPG fans claiming that PS2 RPGs have been disappointing, we'll likely see PS2 RPG fans at some point claiming that PS3 RPGs don't seem to measure up.

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Originally Posted by Lord Jaroh

Maybe console games will get better in the future, or rather, there might be more of a "blurring" between the genres, so we end up with better games overall. That's my hope.

FFXII seems to be doing just that. I have high hopes for it and with Famitsu scoring it 40/40, things are looking up.

I forgot to list Grandia. That should make my top ten as well. Not..enough..space...

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Monkey King

The difference? They don't wallow in it. Cecil is forced pretty quickly to get over himself, unlike Squall or Fei who spend the entire game being unlikable emo bitches.

Good point. I always compare that type to Cyan. Cyan lost just as much if not more than Cloud but does he get caught up in some angsty revenge quest for the duration of the game? I think not. He experiences the self-loathing and such, but he tends to handle things in a more mature way, and he doesn't treat others like garbage just because "my suffering is greater than yours and you could never understand".

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I love Super Mario RPG because I think it's a great game in any era.

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Originally Posted by GoldfishX

One reason I'm in love with Suikoden V (and the series in general) is there's so much more (well-done) character interaction, plot twists (including the many "holy shit" moments) and gameplay options than even the best SNES RPG's.

I wonder if Suikoden V can somehow turn out to be better than Suikoden II. I'm six hours in.

I'm sure you already know how I agree that Valkyrie Profile and Star Ocean 2 are great games. However, the somewhat rudimentary gameplay of Suikoden has always been serviceable to the story, which means that it'll never be able to impress me very much by itself.

The greatest thing about Suikoden for me has been the soundtrack of the original game.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

Just get past the playable opening and you'll see...:biggrin:

I guess I'm pretty close to things opening up more then. I'm up to the final match of the Sacred Games. (actually, I got past it, but I didn't like Belcoot losing; does the possibility hinge on what you tell Marina that night?) I'll play more of it tonight.

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Originally Posted by Jagged

Eh, You do realize that your comparing a 50 year old man man to someone who's barley out of this teens, not to mention your taking account upbringing and lifestyle, right?

Funny how Ramza didn't angst all the time despite being a younger fellow. Since when is maturity directly proportional to age anyways? Some of us don't prefer for heroes to wallow in self-doubt and be carried by others. I don't care how realistic and compelling someone else thinks it is. I think emo characters like Squall are excessive and unrealistic in how they treat others like crap and yet manage to engender concern and compassion.

Originally Posted by Jagged

Let's not forget that Cyan did let death's of his clouded his judgement as he refused Sabin's help at first and would have attacked Celes and Terra had none of the returners stopped him because they were once associated with the Empire. Even after the battle at Narshe he still didn't trust Celes and did not let go of his grieving until you did his subquest.

That's just good development. They explain right after Cyan gets enraged at the sight of Celes that although the Empire may be evil, not all of its people are. At the Emperor's Banquet, the right choice for Cyan is to let Kefka stew in prison for a while rather than just kill him. That's different from Cloud who even by the end of the game still focuses on "settling the score" with Sephiroth.

Originally Posted by Jagged

It's why he's emotionless assassin who would kill your party if the price was right, without batting a eyelash.

I'm sure that's why he helps you escape the Floating Continent. And there's no proof that he commits suicide at the end of FFVI. That end segment is there to show how he finally decides to let go of the past.

Originally Posted by Jagged

Kain angsted for more than 70% the game and was responsible for a lot of the parties hardships because of it. He let Goldbez control him through his jealously of Cecil and Rosa which almost got Rosa killed. He doesn't began find redemption for himself until the end of the game.

I agree that Cecil shouldn't have continued to put up with Kain's treachery after being betrayed by him on numerous occasions. However, the poison of angst didn't completely seep into the series and begin to bring it down until FF7 with its typical anime rivalry business. Mind you, I still think FF7 is a very good game for a number of reasons, but it's a shame that FF6 was the last of the series to have a great cast.

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Originally Posted by Jagged

It doesn't stop his distrust in her even after the battle at Narshe when she fought against her own comardes, and was ready to believe what Kekfa said about her, and this after Edgar said that.

It's only natural. Locke still wasn't sure about her either once Kefka made the claim, and the two had a closer relationship than she ever had with Cyan. It just shows that the characters are human and that Kefka is one devious bastard.

Originally Posted by Jagged

I don't ever remember that or, any of the questions at the Banquet being Cyan's choice or, any of the other Characters for that matter. All of them where more player choices than to anyone specifically in your group.

Gestahl apologizes to Cyan directly at the banquet. Not sure if you have to have Cyan in your active party for it to happen though. Anyways, the point is that by the end of the game Cyan is more concerned with moving on than with avenging the deaths of his wife and son. In FFVII I almost feel bad for Sephiroth when Cloud kills him. It just didn't seem right for him to savor the vengeance like that. It wouldn't have been right for Zidane to have finished off Kuja in FFIX either. It's unheroic.

Originally Posted by Jagged

As Shadow himself states, he only helps you because the Empire betrays and leaves him to die. He was only interested in getting back at them.

There's more to Shadow than meets the eye. He claims to not care but goes out of his way during certain events to help you out. But you know that already. I think it's meant to be understood through subtle behaviors that he does still have a heart in there somewhere even though he seems so cold. The way he tries to comfort Terra a bit (even if it comes off as cold, which is simply his style) during the boat trip to Thamasa, for example.

Originally Posted by Jagged

Yes he does decide at thar point to let go of his greving after holding on to it for so long through the game by killing himself and hoping to be reborn into a better life. This what I understood from his comment.

You got the idea about rebirth, but I think they keep it vague because you're not really supposed to know whether he lives or dies. Or rather, it's not important given the nature of the storytelling throughout the game. You know, with the theme of hope and all.

Originally Posted by Jagged

Nope. Angst has been part of series every since they started having actual plot, i.e since FFIV and onward. I don't see the issue with this through because conflict created between your party aside form villain makes the story more interesting and realistic especially you characters were once former enemies of each other.

See Monkey King's post before about wallowing in angst. Of course angst has its role. But characters didn't begin to swim in it until FFVII. FFVI had the right balance between dealing with your emotions and dealing with reality. FFVII steers more towards stereotypes with brooding fellows like Vincent and that shady Tifa. The "who am I" bits seem to get taken too far sometimes. If the end result is a contrived plot device like FFVIII's orphanage scene, then it's disappointment city for me. Obviously not everyone will agree with me, but I know some do.

Originally Posted by Jagged

FFX, pretty much like FFVI. Tidus hates Jecht for what he did, than anything with rivalry, through it's a bit of a "icing on the cake" so to speak.

How is that? FFVI doesn't make use of the villain=father cliche. I suppose you could draw some parallels betwen Yuna and Terra, but Final Fantasy has been recycling those character types since VI (and to a lesser extent, IV) anyways. Aeris is like Terra too.

Originally Posted by Jagged

Kefka sort of fit's here but he's got a personality that saves him.

And he's quite quotable too. Unlike Sephiroth who is pretty much the stereotypical anime badass and has legions of fans simply because he looks cool. I don't take the "some development is better than none" position either considering how muddled and confusing Seph's development is. The guy is practically a phantom throughout the whole game.

Originally Posted by Jagged

I strong disagree with you since FFVII and FFX had great casts with evry other FF game save for FFI-III and V having decent casts. This if we are just talking about the main series.

For me if we included all the games and I only could pick 5, it would look like this:

FFVI
FFX
FFT (through unfortunately only Ramza and Delita get development)
FFVII
FFIX

That's why they're called opinions, I suppose. I hardly think games like FFVII and FFIX have bad casts. I think FFVII's characters are likeable enough and FFIX's have good development even though I despise their SD designs. FFX though... I really don't care for that cast at all. Rather than taking the time to develop the characters and create real reasons for them to join Yuna's pilgrimage, most of them just tag along early. And those that do develop later on, like Wakka, do so in a rushed and unconvincing manner.

http://mysite.verizon.net/respxabq/ethergeist/id25.html

Just read that to find out why I think FFVI has a better cast than the rest. It's written by a fellow I know and a good read regardless.

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