[General Discussion] Do RPG's Get Better With Age?

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Maybe if you cut your teeth on FF VII, I can see why the new movement in RPGs isn't horribly disappointing to you.

Hey now, I cut my teeth on FFVII, but I haven't been able to bother with most of the PS2 era RPGs because of how mindnumbingly dull and generic the stories (and worse, the characters) are.

I've never minded traditional stories. Evil power threatens world, warriors unite to save us, shit happens in between. Nothing wrong with that, but if you fill it out with characters that are either completely unlikeable or just so dull you don't feel any one way about them, what's the point? If you don't care for the characters in an RPG, what on earth is there? Certainly not the brand new exciting spin on the old turn-based battle system (though I guess there are RPG "fans" that go for this).

As for the topic itself, I'd say it's a yes and no. With age (both yours and the game's), you learn to respect new things the game does right. The subtleties and ingenious ideas, attention to detail and visual design, they all open up differently as you age and as you are able to see how other titles fared.

However, as you age and grow ever the wiser, many titles will reveal how shallow or stupidly written they are. A somewhat thrilling yarn will suddenly not seem quite that fun anymore when you notice how little sense the actual story makes or how much stupid dialogue its cast spouts. The fetch quests and forced plottwists suddenly become transparent and predictable.

But then, it's this that makes us able to differentiate between the truly good and the not so great. The best games grow on you, and that can only happen with time.


EDIT:
Speaking of the direction RPGs are going, I do have some issues with it. RPGs used to be like good books. You read and read and were whisked away by the worlds, the characters and sweeping epic storylines. Then I guess FF7 happened (which I still love) and RPGs shifted away from literature and towards cinema. In their attempt to be more movie like, we didn't get dynamic pacing, brave and inventive storytelling and visual methods, but instead got stuck with non-interactive cutscene movies and voice-acting.

This is all great and good if done well, but most of the time it's not. It's an issue with every other game genre these days as well. Somewhat to do with my age and gained experience with.. well, everything, I'm no longer satisfied with the level of voice acting or writing in games. Many people think it's fine, but you can't half-ass it like that. The more you aim for the movies, the more crucial aural experience becomes, the more important dialogue and its delivery becomes. And dubbing just hasn't kept up.

Many people will certainly argue RPG dubbing has improved a lot, but this is really like saying Medal of Honor series has "improved". FFXII's dub was not "great", it was adequate. MGS3's dub was not good, neither was Persona 3's, or Rogue Galaxy's, or whatever else people have recently praised. That they're merely "better" than the previous not-so-good effort isn't really that much. You need only to re-listen to the likes of Half-Life 2 or Grim Fandango to see how far dubbing still has to go.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

You cite Half-Life 2 and Grim Fandango, but how many players these days are going to play an archaic game like Grim Fandango, much less appreciate Half-Life 2 for its voice acting when most people just make a concerted effort to enjoy the game itself over the voice acting? Dubs aren't going to progress because business knows its money gain is going to be assured as well as the fact that they have a consumer respected product on their hands. And the fans dig it.

Well now, do people play archaic games like JRPGs for the voice acting? Of course not. But story focused games like RPGs have to put mood and experience over all else or there's no point. Characters, dialogue and audio are therefore a big part. Whether a number of fans accept what they're given (I've yet to hear anyone outside GFF talk about their favorite dub actors, besides Cam Clarke and David Hayter) or not, it doesn't diminish the importance. Much like a large amount of people don't know the names of the actors or directors in movies they've seen, I suspect even less actually notice which ones do the dubbing in their RPGs.

You say that because people don't play HL2 or Grim Fandango exclusively for the voice acting that they shouldn't bother with quality in the first place. I don't need you to tell me WHY things are the way they are, practically everyone can deduce the situation. The recent generation of consoles have proven the resurgence of graphics over content improvement argument. Bang for buck is fine, but RPGs could and should be in the more refined category of games.

It's true, a large amount of HL2 players won't appreciate the care and talent that's actually went to designing it, the setting, the style, the score, the writing and audio achievement. In a way that'll only strenghten its worth as a pioneer, to show what the genre can and should do. Much like a very large amount of RPG fans will never "get" FFXII and just how much it does right and amazingly well. Does this somehow diminish its value?

I bring the subject up because the topic asks do these games improve with age, and I've found these are the aspects that I notice more often than I would have years back. Hell, I adore Grandia 1, but I doubt I could play it nowadays if it was the first time through.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Rotorblade

No, I'm saying they aren't going to bother with quality in the first place. Specifically, your definition of it. You want to essentially argue about taste? Expect high fives from everyone who will agree with you and the ignorant masses to scratch their heads or feel insulted.

Yeah, I can see they aren't going to bother when Valve, Bungie, Lucasarts (at least used to), Bioware, Production Studio 4 and ilk are already bothering. I don't quite understand where you get off touting this "hey, it's cool, I understand the market" attitude of yours, as if knowing games are a big business somehow makes it better for us to recieve sloppier work.

If it was only for money talks and "we must make more of what we know will sell", we wouldn't have gotten R-Type Final, Vagrant Story, Rez or the like in the first place. Many studios still take pride in their craftmanship, and it's somehow wrong to hope more will follow?

Quote:

And why is that? Again, what do you want from RPGs that should be recognized and catered to over Average Joe? Be they from Japan or wherever else RPGs are being made. Yes, people will share your sentiment, but you should be so lucky that the developers at large would start using it as a basis for every title to come out.

Are you seriously pointing fingers and soapboxing about how people shouldn't hope for care and love in the games they buy? Why would you try to act out this kind of role here?

And how is it pretentious to notice years later something you thought awesome isn't quite that awesome anymore? What the hell is the matter with you? Why am I asking so much questions?

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