Question for the girls

Striking up a conversation and winning her over with your charm and wit is much better because even goofy awkward attempts at charm are more appealing than someone cocky enough to think you'd give him your number with a single "Hey, how's it going" or some shitty variation of. Because yes, it is insanely bizarre and really has a 0% chance of success no matter what you look like. And that awkward pause between the asking and the rejecting is not the girl considering your gracious offer, but thinking how the fuck is she going to get away from you.

I've got to ask (not claiming you've done this before) but what is the catalyst for a man to approach a woman. Is it because she looks easy? You actually think you have a chance? She's so overwhelmingly attractive that you just got to ask? Because please don't tell me you men think it's actually going to work.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I just have to say that some girls like wearing makeup and dressing up a bit simply for themselves, not for unwarranted attention. It's like saying it's a rape victim's fault because she was wearing a short skirt.

There's a fine line between dressing up for attention and simply dressing up. The dressing up for attention girls get what they deserve but I'd hate to think I can't wear a fucking dress out in public without being bombarded by guys and then when I reject them, be called a bitch with a stick up my ass. Because believe it or not, the first thing going through my mind in the morning when I'm getting dressed is not "How can I clothe myself to crush as many man balls as possible today."

Should we all just wear burkas so we won't get any attention at all? Because that's what this is starting to sound like.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Devo

Never said people deserved what they got, but they know full well what they're doing if they have the looks and the style.

Exactly what are they "doing". Dressing like a girl? Dressing pretty? I've had friends attacked at clubs because of what they were wearing and have come across my far share of sleezes. Does that mean I'm not allowed to wear a tank top and tight jeans to a club, because men might take it the wrong way? There has to be a better solution to these problems than just "It's the girl's fault because of her looks and style."

Like I've said, there are some girl that dress up simply for attention. We all know girls like this, they get what they deserve but how do people distinguish between the attention whores and the ones who just dress how they want to dress for themselves.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Devo

No it means you shouldn't be surprised or annoyed when guys show an interest. Just act civil and say you're not interested. It's less about girls dressing up and more about how they act when they know full well dudes will approach. I've yet to meet a good looking girl with no confidence, so I'm pretty sure none of them are so naive to think they won't get attention when they go out.

There are some girl out there who take that chance and stomp on that guy's ego. There are some girls who politely decline. But when a man is pushy and insistent, is that deserved because of how she's dressed? "Well look at what you're wearing, you obviously want this attention." Also there are plenty of women out there who are drop dead gorgeous but have no self confidence. Why are there such high rates of eating disorders out there, a lot of women who are fine by themselves and really quite beautiful but don't think so themselves. I hate to sound trite but confidence is a state of mind, not a physical being. Because you can look like some Brazillian model yet still think you're fat and ugly.

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Many DO in fact want that attention, but when it isn't the right guy, they act high and mighty, and that's bullshit. Once again you're assuming I think all of them deserve what they get, when I'm talking about the ones who are attention whoring and have attitude issues.

I won't argue that there are women like that out there and I agree they are fucking cunts but how do you distinguish between them and everyone else. Because you are inevitably grouping everyone else with them simply on how a girl is dressing.

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The whole "i dress pretty for myself" is bullshit for the majority of the female population. I'm more impressed with women who can admit to dressing up to look good for everybody then people who act like it's an act of self-love. When will our sex just admit we succumb to the shallow standards men have set up for us?

Good god Devo, not everything revolves around men for christ's sake. I'll use myself for an example then. I LIKE dressing up in skirts and dresses, I LIKE wearing nice makeup and having good hair. Does that mean I want men yelling at me when I walk down to street? No I don't, it makes me feel self conscious and makes me wish I wore jeans that day so I didn't attract attention. It is a fucking form of self-love. Because I can tell myself that I look pretty and yes, that is empowering.

And don't say I'm suppose to feel good when an asshole leans out of a car and whistles at me. Because I can damn well sure say I don't.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Plarom

I was going to make that very same point, but opted out of it.

It is impossible to do on sight, but since this entire thread is based on visual observations leading to concrete assumptions about a woman's character, I figured I wouldn't get into it.

Regardless, I agree, you'll never know how shallow a girl is until you've witnessed it first hand. Looks are not proper grounds to judge a person, but it's faaar too easy to jump to conclusions simply from someone's appearance.

Personally, I'm more interested about WHY women will look at you negatively if you do display some courage and approach them. Why is it that the woman who wear makeup for attention are too proud to accept this attention in good graces?

I like this post. This whole thread is how guys judge solely on how a girl looks and perhaps vice versa. But the thing is, a lot of good looking girls out there who get hit on the most are the shallowest of the bunch, but men wouldn't know that because they're too damn busy asking for her phone number first and getting to know her second.

Take home message boys, try to get to know her first before asking for the phone number. Because you may realize, she's not worth your time. The proper way to pick up a girl is to get into a friendly conversation in a bookstore aisle of similiar interest, rather than stopping someone on the street and the first things out of your mouth are (???) ???-????.

And they look at you negatively because the decent girls are offended that you only want to get to know her because of how she looks, not the otherway around.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Devo

Whether or not you want it isn't the issue here. It's recognizing as a non-naive adult that you will get attention whether you desire it or not. If you can't handle such things don't go out at all. If one thing is unavoidable in this life, it's assholes who are going to catcall. It's up to you to realize they exist and they don't give a fuck whether you want their attention or not. Some women DO want it, some don't, but if the man approaches you with a sincere interest there is NO reason to flip him the bird, laugh at him or demean him in any way.

And just a question to ponder: Who sets the standards of female beauty?

Hey assholes exist, we can agree on that point. Do I let it bother me? Sometimes yes, sometimes no but it is a fact of life that they are out in the general population and fucking it up for everyone else. I deal with them, but I don't enjoy being told that I asked for it. Also I never said I flipped a guy the bird. Those attention whores and holi-than-thou girls may do but I do not get off by any means at stomping on a guy's ego because that is cruel and heartless and I am neither. The only issue I had with what you were championing throughout the thread was that if girls dresses a certain way, they received certain reactions and they should just suck it up and quit complaining because they asked for it. I really feel it's the man's problem, not the woman's and society has this thing where they love pinning it on the woman.

As for the last point, I think there are different standards of beauty. You have women lathed in the pages of Playboy who are, yes, very beautiful but you have someone like Rachael McAdams, who is this decent, wholesome pretty. Everyone has a type (some have fat fetishes and the like) so girls should just be themselves and hopefully, a man can appreciate that. But no one can deny that society deamns you to be a size 2 to be every remotely desirable.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Devo

And how is getting the phone number not a step in trying to get to know her?

Maybe I didn't make myself clear, initiate some sort of conversation and if she peaks your interest, then ask for the number.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Devo

And women love denying that they also contribute to this society, which is my fucking point. It's so easy to pin everything on the "male driven" society, when in fact women are more likely to criticize the appearance of another female.

Once again I have to tell you it doesn't matter if you ask for it because the men will give you attention regardless. If you want to sit here and act like the innocent martyr I won't let you parade that bullshit around. You and most other women are not so naive to think that when you go out there will be all gentlemen.

Hell even gentlemen will approach you if indeed you pique their interest. Whether or not you're a slut, if you dress like one, you give an impression. This does not mean "oh she deserved to get raped" but it DOES mean that you are revealing parts of your body to the male eye. If you want to live in ideal fantasy land where men don't let their sexuality encourage their actions, be my guest, but don't martyr yourself because you know better.

I would agree that women are most likely to criticize another female's appearance but 90% of the time, they internalize it more than men. They share it with themselves, their friends, their family but rarely, if ever do they share it with you, especially if you're a stranger. That's the nature of the beast, women are sneakier so their influences doesn't run as deep with other women. Because I don't know you're talking about my huge cankles since you never tell me.

I'm not denying there are men out there that are less than gentlemen, but why should the solution to the issue be just stop dressing the way you're dressing or stop looking the way you look. Is it simply acceptable for men to act like that and women to take it? That's what I'm asking because the answer to the problems shouldn't be, stop just stop dressing a certain way and putz around town in sweats and a hoodie because that's just the way things are so deal with it. I'm not trying to play martyr because I don't get nearly enough grief as a chick who has naturally huge breasts and can't avoid the unwanted attention or the pretty girl who can't shake off the creeps.

The world will never be rid of assholes but blame should be more evenly distributed rather than just shoved all into one corner. And I'd hate to demean men in such a way that they're sexual urges are so uncontrollable that as soon as they spot some cleavage, they go wild with desire and can't help themselves.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Elendil

The only alternative is turning the entire male population on this good Earth into homosexuals, which cannot be done. You need to stop being naive; standards of beauty were largely set by men, and you can't change how men think about women; it's built in (at least by some studies) at the genetic level.

You can't change how men think of women but there should be some say on how they're treated.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Smoodle

Same goes with women.

True, but I'd say that women are more often objectified than men.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Elendil

There is, it's the common code of conduct between people. Admittedly some people don't understand how to be polite between people of the opposite sex, or even the same sex; however, from the way you complain about the issue, I'm under the impression that you only hang out at singles bars and dress like a skank.

Who the fuck calls places singles bars anymore. What are you, 50 with an affinity to martinis? The nature of this thread is to talk of the extreme polar end of a matter, I'm sure everyone has great stories of nice people but how the hell is that going to add to anything.

You're right, some people know how to be polite, some don't. I guess you fall in the latter.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.