Prospect of peace in middle east

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Israel is the most powerful nation in the middle east, and you suggest we could have stronger allies there?

No thanks. Most of those muslim nations hate us already, even not supporting Israel anymore would do no good.

A) Israel is the most powerful nation in the Middle East entirely due to American aid. It would cease to be that way should the US decide to work with another partner, and indeed, many other nations have so much more potential than a tiny country with only 6 million people.

B) Yes, dropping Israel would. Israel is the Arab world's biggest gripe with the US, even more than Iraq. Dropping Israel would go extremely far to help US relations with Arab states.

Granted, dropping Israel in favor of another partner is never going to happen, but even a balanced and fair relationship would do wonders considering the current state of affairs.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

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Sorry for out of the topic... are you really come from Saudi Arabia? Just curious.

I live there, im not actually Saudi.

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Looks like it's on again.

The Arabs and Jews have been at war with each other since the Biblical days. I can't see peace EVER existing unless there is
1.) Fundamental shift in the practice of Islam. Such as if Islam is a religion of peace, act like it.
2.) Muslims wipe out all Jews/Christians or vice versa.

Or the Israeli's agree to sit down with an elected government and talk about moving to the borders the rest of the world wants them at, 1967. It's doesn't need to be bloody, most Arab countries will be supportive and acknowledge Israel if it decides to pull back to the '67 borders and start acting kindly to its neighbors, instead of oppressing them.

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Uhh, that's kind of what I'm saying, is that if we stop supporting Israel, it will be a weak state. It will, inevitably, be overrun by the surrounding nations that want to stake claim to their land.

Iran would be a much stronger ally, economically and militarily than Israel. We'd also probably become ALOT more friendly with Saudi Arabia, due to the fact that we buy their oil and are at least on speaking terms with them. If we've got those two on our side, Syria will undoubtedly follow.

Israel has 400 of its own nuclear weapons, nobody is pulling any stunts.

Iran is a easy US ally if the sides started to act conciliatory. Iran's people are generally friendly with the US, and if the sides started to cooperate and talk a bit, I'm sure you'd find Iran capable of being a major US ally, its just a matter of one side taking the initiative. Rhetoric changes according to circumstances, and it would in the case of the Ayatollahs if regional issues changed.

Saudi Arabia is already the US's biggest ally in the region outside Israel. There would be less friction without Israeli/Palestinian issues, but at the same time, it wouldn't be as great a leap as people expect. The governments and private sectors of the countries cooperate so much already that the extent of it would probably surprise you. It is the regions major military and economic power (militarily, outside Israel, but economically, not), and is on good terms with the US for hundreds of reasons.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

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Also, the territories post '67 were seized by Israel AFTER Egypt, Jordan and Syria attempted to push Israel into the sea. In addition - Iraq, Sudan, Kuwait, and Algeris also mobilized its forces to attack Israel.

After defeating every attacking arab country on 4 fronts Israel seized the Golan Heights, Gaza Strip, Sinai Penninsula and the West Bank.

Israel fortified all 4 areas as they would serve as buffer as Israel would face continual assault from the arabs.

7 years later, Egypt and Syria commits a surprise attack on Israel known as the Yom Kipper war. The Egyptian/Syrian armies cross into the Golan Heights/Sinai Penninsula and were defeated within two weeks.

So no, I wouldn't expect Israel to give back those territories as they were acquired through self defense and for self defense. Besides, many of the people of that era have died of old age or have been incapacitated. (Note Ariel Sharron and Yassar Arafat). You have a newer generation of Arabs who weren't even born during those wars that are continuing to fight Israel.

And I dare say that Israel is pretty damn tolerent to its neighbors considering how often they instigate attacks. Israel didnt shell the west bank for the HELL of it, they are doing it to wipe out artillary positions from the Palestinians. If Israel was so reppresive, they would just simply wipe out every Arab within range of its borders. Something the Arabs tried to do back in 1967 and would do so today if they had the means of doing so.

They aren't tolerant at all. Invading one neighbor and starting another war don't qualify as tolerant at all. The very existence of the country was a broken pledge to the Arabs, and it shouldn't even be there in the first place. Arabs shouldn't be paying the price for the crimes against humanity of other nations during WW2, they weren't even involved in the war.

How ya doing, buddy?

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No I would not accept that the Six-Day War was a hostile act from Israel. They might not be on the 2006 World Atlas had they not fought that war.

The Suez Crisis and the invasion of Lebanon are both debatable events on how much an aggressor Israel is. Especially the former as it was a multinational attack force that several nations wanted to keep open for economic interest. I think with Lebanon, Israel dispropiately responded to militant attacks but the arabs *DID* start by shelling Israel.

The point that I am trying to argue is that Israel is in no way can be held in the same regard as the Palestinians and Arab nations as a "partner of peace" when it comes to achieving peace in the region.

Israel was still the agressor in all three cases. Israel was an agressor in Suez, whether multinational or not, that does not absolve it from partial responsibility. With '67, it still attacked and started the war, no matter what comes up, the fact is Israel attacked first. 1982 was shameful, Israel invaded and then proceeded to massacre thousands at Shabra and Shatilla, and massacred thousands more than the Palestinians ever attacked.

Israel can be held in the same regard, it has slaughtered far more civilians than any of the Arab groups have, and has consistently violated the rights of Palestinians while occupying their territory at the same time.


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Israel's responce to the beach massacres can't even be classified as a real apology. They've come out and started claiming that they weren't even responsible, and when discussing their actions, their purported apology was hogwash. It wasn't an apology at all, the Israeli government is just trying to find a way to start covering when they realize that they might have triggered another intifada.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?