Religion: What it means to you

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I am aware of the conditioning that demands that if someone thinks outside of the "accepted model" they are to be cast out, ridiculed & punished. Some folks here find purpose in this.

You have only yourself to blame for the replies you have been getting. Time and time again you have been asked to back up your arguments with evidence and instead of doing so you have started claiming victimisation.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I was groomed to follow the footsteps of my parents by constantly being immersed in their hedonistic lifestyle. Eventually I did live their way.

How exactly were you groomed? I was immersed in my parents lifestlyes but as an adult I have never lived life according to anybodies beliefs but my own. You seem to be rather weak-willed.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

As a Christian, I feel that my religion offers a purpose that is superior to any other lifestyle in virtue.

Name one virtueous act that cannot be performed by an athiest.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

From my perspective the prevailing philosophy here is to persevere in becoming as crystal hard & numb as you can to life. I see it in the lack of concern for others in the posts.

My 'prevailing philosophy' is that there are a hell of a lot of people who have much tougher lives than I do, so to complain about anything in my life is just selfish. Instead of complaining about things, I do what I can to change them.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I ask what purpose do you serve in your philosophy?

Look at my previous post about secular humanism.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

My puropse has been to show a better way than you know, not provide some proof or cunning argument. Through our discussion my purpose has been aimed at your hearts just like the bibles teaching aims at the human heart.(Ezekiel 11:19)

You've never given me the slightest reason to believe in this. I refuse to make a 'leap of faith' for Christianty just as I refuse to make a 'leap of faith' for a deposed Nigerian offical who needs my help to launder money.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

The reason my purpose is aimed at your heart (the place in you that drives your desires & actions) is because even if I was to pray and an angel tapped each of you on the shoulder the proof would only change your mind.

You should take a basic psychology class, because your understanding of how things work is woefully inadequate.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I have seen it first hand with an agnostic friend of mine and read plenty of examples of it in the bible of how this tactic fails.

Examples please.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Christians often say they have sacred truths because they have experienced improvement from following biblical teaching.

Yet they remain curiously unable to substantiate these claims.

Please cut out the Argumentum ad nauseam because it is becoming rather tiring.

Quote:

Argumentum ad nauseam (argument to the point of disgust; i.e., by repitition). This is the fallacy of trying to prove something by saying it again and again. But no matter how many times you repeat something, it will not become any more or less true than it was in the first place. Of course, it is not a fallacy to state the truth again and again; what is fallacious is to expect the repitition alone to substitute for real arguments.

Nonetheless, this is a very popular fallacy in debate, and with good reason: the more times you say something, the more likely it is that the judge will remember it. The first thing they'll teach you in any public speaking course is that you should "Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em, then tell 'em, and then tell 'em what you told 'em." Unfortunately, some debaters think that's all there is to it, with no substantiation necessary! The appropriate time to mention argumentum ad nauseam in a debate round is when the other team has made some assertion, failed to justify it, and then stated it again and again. The Latin wording is particularly nice here, since it is evocative of what the opposition's assertions make you want to do: retch. "Sir, our opponents tell us drugs are wrong, drugs are wrong, drugs are wrong, again and again and again. But this argumentum ad nauseam can't and won't win this debate for them, because they've given us no justification for their bald assertions!"

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I've only stated what my religion means. I dont need evidence for that.

You have on countless occasions also maintained that you are right and everyone else is wrong. For that you do need evidence.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

John 15:19 If you belonged to the
world, the world would love you as its
own. Because you do not belong to the
world, but I have chosen you out of the
world-- therefore the world hates you.

The Hell Law says that Hell is reserved exclus-
ively for them that believe in it. Further,
the lowest Rung in Hell is reserved for them
that believe in it on the supposition that
they'll go there if they don't.
HBT; The Gospel According to Fred, 3:1

One of my best friends is a Christian. He was president of the Christian Fellowship at university and goes to church many days of the week. He is also universally liked by thiest and athiest alike because unlike some people he does not intentionally provoke people in order to confirm his own biases.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Sincere prayer to God. Not virtuous to an atheist but to the rest of the world its a thumbs up.

How has prayer ever helped anyone other than by being a rather childish placebo. I'm afriad you'll need to do a little better than that.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I have seen a few views of courage here in this thread, where is yours?

What in the blue hell does courage have to do with anything?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

What will it cost you to just ask Jesus to forgive your sin?

£1 billion, I will accept a cheque.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I'm am expert at this am I not? When patience for this thread finally collapses from fatigue I will know that God is finished with it. Until then I will state in every way possible what my religion means to me.

It's not something you should be proud of.

LSword, if you really want to non-fundamentalists to have any respect whatsoever for you stop being such a conceited, cowardly, infruriating, dense, passive-agressive, obstinate, idiotic, bragging, self-righteous, childish, foolish zealot.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Not in this context. We need a new thread.

Can you offer evidence for you position or not? Looks like I'll need to add 'evasive' to my summerisation. Contect has nothing to do with it, any argument need evidence that supports it.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

By its nature the gospel message is confrontational. Hence the reason why we are at this point. Ask your friend if he has ever been given a hard time about his faith.

Nope, he never has, possibly because he never goes around antagonizing people. I have personally had many lively debates with them and he has always done his best to argue his points with evidence and a minimum of logical fallacies. The reason that you find people become short-tempered with you may have something to do woth your personality rather than your beliefs. I can't ever remeber getting annoyed with someone because of their religious beleifs, but I often get annoyed at people who are annoying because of personality defects, persection complexes, zealotry etc...

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Its still virtuous to give a placebo if its the best that you have.
Dont complain about the remedy if it works.

Why not have a placebo that hasn't caused untold suffereing? Avoiding problems by convincing yourself that a giant invisible man will sort them out may work in the short-term, but in the long term it's not going to do much good.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

To embrace the concept of God & his promises with no proof requires courage. The Bible & Christian history is replete with examples of this concept put into action. Ask your friend.

Until you show how the bible is factual this claim is redundant. It takes 'courage' to repeatedly slam your testicles into a drawer too.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I found out long ago that a person reveals what they truely are under stress. With all your smarts this is what you are reduced to when you are pressed to the limit. Humanism is but a mask you put on but we know what you really look like.

Yup, mid-length ash blone hair (although I occasionally dye it red/pink), 5'10/11, slim build (although I'm working on that) and vaguely non-descript clothes, plus my trademark coat/second skin.

I don't see why you think that I am stressed as I have merely pointed some a few of your major character flaws and suggested that you improve them so that you are able to intergrate into society with greater ease and gain some respect from the fellow board members; because if their posts in this thread are to be believed, they don't seem to have much for you currrently. Constructive criticism never hurt anyone.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

The net offers each of us a considerable ammount of firepower but my goal has been accomplished several times over.

Yup, trolling.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I am evasive but its for a reason.

See above.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

My religion means having a personality that confronts the status quo.

And what is this 'status quo'? I've met hardcore, life-long punks who are less confrontational than you.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

(Matthew 5:13-14) The way I have behaved is patterned after many Biblical principals. Practice of these principals have become apart of my personality.

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.

So you're salty?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Your tirade of descriptive words about me is a revelation of what you believe but I feel it is lost upon our audience.

I'm saying, or in some cases repeating what everyone is thinking.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

but my tactic thus far is to expose the the "natural man" in action. I do this in order to show what a person looks like without God & His message. Painful as this process may be this is another aspect of what my religion means to me.

Am I the only one thinking 'Phelps'?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Look at what you think of your fellow man.
{conceited, cowardly, infruriating, dense, passive-agressive, obstinate, idiotic, bragging, self-righteous, childish, foolish zealot}

I don't think that about my fellow man, I just think that about you, and for good reason.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

These are just some of the colorful terms thrown my way. By labeling me with such terms you are in essence saying you are none of these things &
that you are an authoritative judge of human character and what it should be.

Nope, I'm just saying what you strike me (and I guess the majority of other people) as.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

In dealing with mentally inferior person (idiotic), your solution isn't to help but to browbeat your fellow man. Is this a brave act?

I tried to help you understand things like logic and reason but you refused my help.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

How about self-righteousness, and zealotry. Your stand has been as strident as mine. How are you supposed to demonstrate your intelligence if you don't model by example.

I've provided evidence for my positions and have said that I would change my mind if anyone could present some evidence that I was wrong. You have done the opposite.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

We can take this to the next level. When you are ready lets continue.

By all means continue to alienate others and embarres yourself if that's what your imaginary friend tells you do to. My imaginary friend tells me that you hanged yourself long ago and have done nothing but troll and give other Christians a bad name.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by niki

Maybe it has been said already in the thread, but I'm curious about what kind of Christian LordsSword is, and what you people are targeting exactly when talking about "Christianity".

I mean, even beyond the Catholic / Protestant schism, differences between Protestant sects can be huge. I know it's not a strict theologists discussion (lol), but still, I think it would be interesting to know what everyone has in mind when they use the word "Christian". It is, after all, a rather complex thing to define, don't you think?

My definiton is anyone who thinks Jesus is 'magic'.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by niki

Well, the thing there are a lot of dissensions among the people who do. Do you make any difference between them, or are all *religious* people the same, regardless of their religion ?

Of course there are differences between them. I was merely giving out my definion of a Christian. What people are like is not based soley on their belief system.

Originally Posted by niki

What of someone who doesnt actually believe Jesus was the son of God, but takes inspiration of his sayings to lead his everyday life ? Is he still religious, or can he be regarded as someone who would live by some philosopher's words ?

If he doesn't beleive that Jesus was magic but agrees with him on things like nieghbourly love etc... then no, he's not particularly religious. I agree with much of what Jesus said, in the same way that I agree with much of what Siddhārtha Gautama said.

Originally Posted by niki

Jesus' words are hardly condemnable, especially in our western societies that, let's face it, are heavily influenced by the Christian philosophy, at least morally. If you reckon Jesus' teachings are good, in the end, why does it matter that someone elevates his beliefs to the notion of sacred or not ?

What is to say that all of his teachings are good? Look at how Lsword quotes from Scripture every chance he gets. Jesus might have said that you should love your neighbour, but he also said that everyone who doesn't worship him is going to hell.

Besides, if you'll accept Jesus' divinity on blind faith you'll probably accept a lot of other things too, things like creationism. If you're willing to ignore critical thinking and common sense for one thing you might as well ignore it for everything.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by LordsSword

It is equally stupid to destroy the basis upon which people make moral decisions without presenting an alternative. I stress that in presenting the alternative one must model it.

Sigh. Secular humanism.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I disagree. Christians have the proof of the empty tomb of Jesus and the documented stories of eyewitnesses who were tortured and killed because they said they saw him alive.

Where is this so-called 'empty tomb'? You do realise that bodies decay don't you. Since when was lack of a body proof that someone existed, apart from in Bizarro world. Also, who was tortured and killed because they saw him alive. Again you are using the bible as a non-fictional base but you have yet to give any evidence that is anything but a bunch of stories. How is the bible any different from say, The Epic of Gilgamesh?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

The community of faith that I belong to endured & continues to survive this kind of treatment to this day because the faith experience is real and we wont deny it even if it costs us our lives.

You have already been told countless times that persecution doesn't prove that you are right, (just look at the Phelps) and that pretty much all religions have been descriminated again. You're refusal to acknowledge any of these facts coupled with your desire to propagate any argument that supports your view no matter how innane or no matter how many times it has been challenged is why every other christian who reads your posts are hanging their heads in shame.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I'm glad somebody is keeping track. Its easier to learn something with repetition.

See my post on arguement ad nasueum. If anything you are actually driving people away from Christianity.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Look, people tell me give the proof, give the proof but i'm not here to give my side so you can play "duck hunt" and shoot it down.

Not proof (which only exists in maths), what we want is evidence. If it is legitimate evidence then surely we would be unable to shoot it down.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

This is what we are conditioned to do and i've done it myself, but I have learned from my mistake.

Since when was demanding evidence for extraordinary claims considered a fault?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

If you really want the proof you have to do it the biblical way. The book has easy to follow directions to get what God has to offer(Acts 2:38). When you get it, then you will have all the proof you will need. At least give this a try.

Give what a try? Do you mean I should go against all rational judgement and suspend my critical faculties?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Since many of you are "scientific" and are about testing and proving, just make the effort of one genuine prayer of repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord of your life. Then see if your view of the world changes.

How is this remotely scientific? Also, how could we make a genuine prayer to someone we don't beleive in? Could you make a genuine prayer to Eris?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

A simple experiment done in moments, then you can tell us about it.

For many of us this would be akin to believing that the moon is made of cheese. In other words, it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to accept something completely extraordianry without evidence. Don't blame us, it was God that made us this way.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Another experiment would be if you just cant bring yourself to mouth the words or even think about a prayer. If this is this the case, we members who profess faith in God can pray for you to strengthen you in this endeavor. Should you have the sudden inclination to pray, this second experiment will be verifiable to you.

I can mouth the words to a prayer, and often have done. Nothing happened. I'm afraid that the second experiment can't be called an experiment until you tell us how it is falsifiable.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

If you are not able to consider either of these two options of proof, be honest and admit you dont want any.

I hate to repeat myself almost as much as you love to, but you really don't understand what proof entails.

By repeatedly posting this rubbish I wouldn't be surprised if you have made everyone think less of your faith and less of you personally.

I think that this video is a perfect way of showing you how asinine your arguments about accepting Jesus and feeling him thereafter are.

In other words, the fact that you 'feel' god is not evidence.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Will do, it's just a shame he decided to take over the thread with his insane evangelising.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Missionaries still swarm the globe in an effort to do what I have done

What have you done except annoy people and give Christianity a bad name?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Show me a biblical verse to sustain your opinion.

Proverbs 11:2
Proverbs 16:18
Proverbs 18:12

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by LordsSword

Biblical correction is attached to following biblical teaching. Until you can obey the book dont pretend to teach from it.

Then why dd you even ask for correction if you weren't going to accept it? How many more insane rules are you going to invent? From now on you will not respond to anyone who uses the letter 'e'?

Sassafrass has the right idea, every time you quote the bible I will quote a better book that reveals a greater truth. This time it's Snow Crash.

Until a man is twenty-five, he still thinks, every so often, that under the right circumstances he could be the baddest motherfucker in the world. If I moved to a martial-arts monastery in China and studied real hard for ten years. If my family was wiped out by Colombian drug dealers and I swore myself to revenge. If I got a fatal disease, had one year to live, and devoted it to wiping out street crime. If I just dropped out and devoted my life to being bad.

Chapter 36.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

I was a dope head who got off drugs thanks to the bible. If you dont like the biblical message why dont you take my place and show people how to be "fine" like you?

Sounds like you've replaced one crutch with another.

Originally Posted by LordsSword

So the unreligious can say to the religious person:
"Hey you're practicing your religion in the wrong way! We dont believe your book but do as we say anyway!!"
C'mon folks, who is being unreasonable now?

Still you. You asked for biblical correction and then refused to acknowledge it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?