[] Gym Battlers Open

Originally Posted by Josiah

I appreciate you wanting to have some input on this

I don't.

Look, Sane Brain, you weren't an active participant. Yes, you stumbled upon this long after registration closed. Unfortunate but that's life. Other than being a spectator, you had absolutely no role in this event whatsoever. We edified the rules and bracketing format well before your arrival; everyone understood the rules and was accepting. I rather resent you bopping along and arbitrarily superimposing your own convoluted systems onto our event as if you're the grand arbiter of Poke-law and we're mud-harvesting peasants of the craft. Modifiers, half-points, SEKRIT BONUSES, whatever - it's more work and tabulation than we ever needed. Winners? Losers? Does it matter? It was entirely for fun. There doesn't need to be any ranked conclusion because nobody came away a loser for enjoying the time spent battling.

If you wish to run a tournament with as many clearly defined paradigms for calculating placement, please feel free. If the rules are fair, I'll participate and not make a peep over the structure. After all, your tourney, your rules, right? But when you're not involved, it's mighty damned presumptuous to act as if your methods are the best and as if everyone else is defying you by saying that the current outcome is satisfactory.

Most amazing jew boots

The Elite 4 idea is okay, I don't have any problems with it. I don't want to drag things on forever, though.

I had an idea for a different sort of tournament: Pokemon Draft

The concept works like so:

Sign-ups are posted for, say, a week. Once the sign-ups close, each participant receives a randomized number. This represents their place in the "draft."

When the draft begins, the person with the lowest number selects first. He or she may choose any three Pokemon that are not banned from play. These Pokemon have been "drafted" and may not be selected by any other participant.
The second person then makes his/her selection of three, and those Pokemon are removed from the list also.

This process moves on down the line until the person with the highest number goes. In this case, that person gets to choose six Pokemon at once. His choices may not be ideal but he is given the benefit of selecting an entire team at once.

The person with the second highest number then chooses another three Pokemon. And so forth, until each participant has had two rounds in which to choose his/her team. The advantage of a low number grants a player the opportunity to select stronger Pokemon. The advantage of higher numbers is the ability to perhaps create the more cohesive team.

Once each person has selected their team, it goes to a normal bracket. All participants battle each other once, in a Three-Match set. The first game shall be 6 vs.6, and the remaining two shall be 3 vs. 3.
If participants are agreeable, Sane Brain may calculate and maintain the scoring should he wish. He has the zeal, and as long as people understand the modifiers he uses, I see no problems.
Once all players have battled each other, the winner shall be the person with the highest win percentage. In the case of ties, each player's KO'd Pokemon will serve as the tiebreaking statistic.


The concept of a draft may intimidate some, since there's the chance your favorites may be claimed early in the proceedings. That's an unfortunate reality but there's still a lot of useful Pokemon to work with. Consider that we had only 9 active participants in this past tournament. If we have approximately the same number (10), then once all is said and chosen, only 60 different Pokemon will be used. That represents most of the Overused and Borderline tiers - so you'll get something decent for certain. Even at a dozen participants, there's still a lot of room to work in.

Thoughts? Endorsements? Criticisms?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Kairyu

@ Crash:
Ohh, drafting was a format I've been wanting to try but one thing kept bothering me. Wouldn't the person choosing afterwards know what the first guy grabbed? I would think so if the point of the selection is to make sure everyone uses different Pokemon. Therefor everyone would effectively choose counter types.

Now, this isn't exactly a bad thing since the cycle continues all the way back to the person that made the first selection. But if there is a way to mask selections and yet still allow for everyone to choose a unique team then I'd say we're ready to try this out =D.

I'm not sure that there's a convenient method of drafting that doesn't involve knowing what was taken before you. It does seem like crucial information just for the sake of preventing the draft process from taking forever and a day. Imagine being the last to draft and having absolutely no clue what was chosen. How frustrating could that become? How long would it take for that person to find six decent Pokemon that weren't claimed?

I see the draft as a battle itself. You enter with a strategy, then amend that strategy as others make their moves. If people are drafting high on Dragons, then maybe selecting something with Ice Beam becomes a higher priority. Drafting to counter isn't necessarily a poor strategy but it may also result in a less cohesive team. Conversely, you might have a sneaky plan and not particularly care about a plentitude of Dragons. That person's priority is filling roles on the team. There's no one proven draft method.

But for the sake of logistic simplicity, I think a visible draft would be preferable. Everyone would know what each other participant chose, so the advantages would cancel out.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

That's a different method of calculating victory margins, I'll admit. I never would've considered using a Pokemon's cumulative base stats. It'd work and probably provide some compelling balances but everyone would need to understand, up front, that keeping a log of which Pokemon fell in what round will be necessary.

I suppose that as long as one combatant maintains this tab, it'll work out fine.

If you want to run the thread, Sane Brain, go ahead. I'm more of an idea guy anyhow; I enjoy seeing other people carry out my ideas to their fruition.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I have my doubts that everyone will be available simultaneously to do a live draft, Icy. Doing the process via PM might be the only feasible method.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I understand your point but the key to a draft is that it must take place in a certain order. If the next person in line isn't available for IRC, the entire process is made to wait anyhow. So PMs still remain the most accessible option.

If it's a person's turn in the rotation and they want to send their choices via AIM, that's an option. But it won't make the next person up move any faster.

How ya doing, buddy?

Here's how I envisioned it all working:

1: Players sign up, and a total number of participants is determined.

2: Players are randomly assigned "draft" numbers, and will proceed to choose in numerical order; the player with the lowest number chooses first.

3: Player #1 goes first and selects 3 Pokemon. He may announce his choices in the draft thread or may send them to the coordinator via PM.

4: Once these choices are confirmed, the thread creator edits the "drafted" Pokemon into the opening post. Subsequent drafters will see that these Pokemon are no longer eligible for selection.

5: Player #2 makes his selections. The coordinator posts that person's choices as "drafted."

6: This process continues until all but the last player have chosen. The person with the highest number chooses all six Pokemon at once. Like before, these Pokemon are listed as "drafted".

7: The person with the second highest number chooses three more Pokemon, and the selection is announced publicly by the coordinator.

8: This process moves back down the sequence until the person with the lowest number chooses his last three Pokemon.

9: When it is a person's turn, that player has 24 hours to make his decision and notify the coordinator. Thus, checking in frequently is an important part of participation. We cannot wait for slackers.

10: If a person does not make a selection within 24 hours of the beginning of his turn, he is skipped and must wait until all other players have made their choice for that round. At that time, the slackers will be granted one more opportunity to choose, in the corresponding order of their draft numbers.

11: If a person misses both turns, or does not appear for their make-up selection, he is ejected from the competition. No apologies will be made. Any Pokemon that person may have chosen thus far will remain "Drafted", however, so as to avoid arguments over who would've/should've had the chance to take them instead. Screw you, you get no freebies.

12: Once teams are finalized, each person will have 10 days to assemble their team for play. It is not essential to have all Level 100 Pokemon, nor is EV training a must. However, it would be wisest to select your Pokemon based upon what you already have or can create in a very short time, not what you think is the ideal team.

13: Once the training period has expired, each player will be responsible for playing each other once, in a Best of Three battle. Because personal schedules and such can greatly vary, it will be up to each person to make contact with all opponents and set up battle times. Failure to do so will likely result in lost points in the standings.

14: Once all players have battled within the alloted period, the scores are tabulated. The person with the most overall victories is declared the winner. In the case of a tie, the player who lost the least amount of Pokemon is the winner. If that solves nothing, there will be a Sudden Death tiebreaker round consisting of one match - 6 vs.6. The victor will emerge as the champion.

15: People laugh and discuss the crazy shit that happened during their matches. Sane Brain goes crazy from consulting all his flow charts.

16: Punch and pie are served

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Sane Brain

But I'm not sure if Crash still wants to do his exact version, or if he likes my version of the draft more.

I think there's a tendency for each person to bear a slight bias toward his own ideas. However, the logistics are ultimately the call of the tournament organizer. As you've expressed a desire to mediate the proceedings, I'd defer to whichever system you used.

Just bear in mind that simplicity seems to earn more participation around here. (Of course, players probably won't have to do all the calculations themselves. But if they clearly understand how you arrive at your numbers, I think it'll put olks at better ease.)

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I feel Sleep Clause should work as such:

If a player has a Pokemon afflicted with "sleep" status, then any move by an opponent that would deliberately cause "sleep" on another of that player's Pokemon is prohibited. If the sleeping Pokemon wakes up, then sleep is a fair tactic once more.

This rule does not forbid a player from putting more than one of his own Pokemon to "sleep", for example, by using Rest.

This rule also does not forbid the infliction of "sleep" status by Pokemon Powers such as "Effect Spore" or "Synchronize."

----------------------------

I am also against being allowed to change movesets between matches. In practice, it would be as if a player had more than one, say, Dragonite. As the draft makes this a technical impossibility, the moveset should remain constant.

As for trading Pokemon, it's an interesting wrinkle but I don't foresee if being used much, if at all. Early drafters won't want to give up their powerful Pokemon, and late drafters will only want to "trade up" for something better - which they're not going to get. It's not as though anyone will be in a situation to trade 2-for-1...

Unless there's a supplemental draft round in which people may each select 2 more that can be used either as backups or as trade fodder. That is, Player A might give up his Gyarados for Player B's Forretress and Lanturn. Player A would have an extra reserve option, while Player B would gain a heavy-hitter. Could happen!

A supplemental draft would make things a bit more interesting and make trades a viable prospect, but it'd also draw the draft process out a bit longer. Double-edged sword, really.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Sane Brain

When I said, "trade Pokemon" I didn't mean trading Pokemon that you drafted, just trading in general, I guess. I don't know the limitations of trade viva wi-fi, I thought you could only trade Pokemon so I thought, for example, someone who drafted a Dragonite would trade his Metagross to the person who drafted Metagross in return for a Dragonite.

Ohhhh. Yes, I suppose that makes sense also.

Though I was beginning to like the concept of the supplemental draft, just for the scenarios it could present. Oh well, some other day.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.