Firearms

So who here at GFF takes up our American right to bear arms? If you are not an American are citizens in your country allowed to own firearms?

I'm currently in the market for a .45 pistol or something of that nature for myself and a 9mm or smaller pistol for my fiancé. If I had the extra cash laying around there are a lot of other rifles/carbines that I would love to have.

So who owns what? Rifles, shotguns, pistols, maybe all of the above?

Also if you had the money what weaponry would you love to have?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Jan, if I had the money that would be what I would get. The 1911 is a very proven and reliable design.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Killy

Or screw reliability, style and the propability of doubt while you're facing a trespassers....

...just waste the SOB with a Glock 18C fully automatic;

If I were to buy a pistol, it would not be a Glock. I'd take a Berretta or Colt over glock any day of the week. Besides, there are far better machine pistols out there than Glock.

BTW style doesn't mean shit if when you go to pull the trigger and it jams.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

If you want a fully automatic weapon why not go with a submachine gun which is designed for that sort of abuse?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Zio

In the USA, only semi-automatic or below is allowed for a civillian. The rest are for the cops and the army.

Not true, you can own fully automatic firearms. You just have to jump through more hoops. My grandfather owns an old fully automatic .45 cal Thompson 1927. The assault rifle ban only applies to machine guns made after 1989.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Killy

Because they're sligthly heavier and harder to conceal? I prefer pistols, besides imagine the look on the guy's face when you start firing a fully-automatic pistol. Element of surprise, uknowhwatimsayin.

Auto 9mm glock = heavy recoil/awful accuracy... That is like firing a MP5 with out the weight and length of the weapon to help control the recoil.

I don't know about the laws where you live but here you can't get a concealed handgun permit for full auto pistols :/

I was speaking idiomatically.

It fires similar ammunition faster... That means more recoil. Personally speaking if I wanted something like that a Micro Uzi would be more fitting.

In a situation where I have to shoot at someone I want to kill them (preferably in one hit), not spray the whole neighborhood up with bullets. I'd love to have on of Mag Magnum Research's .44 mag or .50 Desert Eagle.

I can see the cool factor in something like that but cool will only take you so far and isn't the cool factor that will keep you alive in a life and death situation.

Jiraiya: SKS are neat and cheap too but for about 300 more USD you can get a semi auto AK47 which is a modern assault rifle.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Acro-nym

We all have the right to bear arms! I mean, these lumps of flesh hanging down from my shoulders can be quite a burden sometimes.

Seriously, though, I would have to say that the U.S. Constitution doesn't really allow for individual people to own guns. That being said, I feel that it should be perfectly okay for citizens to own guns. Admittedly, there would be less crime without them, but some people feel safer knowing they have a gun that, in a time of need, can allow them to defend themselves. I do not own a gun, simply because I have no need for one (and maybe because my parents wouldn't allow it). If there ever came a time where I did find it necessary, I'd get one. It's that simple.

You've got to be kidding me. So what happens when the other guy is armed? Are your arms going to protect you from a bullet? Are you the man of steel?

Citizen owner ship reduces crime, simply put; none of this bullshit I so often hear of leaving it to the professions. Don’t you ever wonder why people don’t rob homes in Texas?

NVM there is no fucking point in arguing if you have these absolutely baseless and stupid preconceived ideas...

BTW if you ever find yourself in a situation where you need a firearm you can’t just go get one. Make sure to tell the criminal to hold on while you go to the store and buy a gun. Good luck with three day waiting period!

Back to the topic!
So Mr. Acro-nym if you ever found yourself in a situation needing a pistol and convinced the stupid criminal to let you go buy one, what would be your first choice?

FELIPE NO

Harmonica: Yes the .50 Desert Eagle is way over kill... but the .44 mag desert eagle while not as a .50 it is still a huge nasty hand cannon.

Jiraiya: Not all AKs are made equally and because it is such a prolific design there is a lot of less than desirable AKs. BTW have you ever used an M-16A2? Shit those things feel like they will break in your hands and they are still pretty accurate.

x86: Smartass.

andkeener: You assume a lot. You can say what ever you want, but the fact is when I am put into a situation where I am in need of a tool that can save my life, I will have it. You make it out to sound like I am some hick out shooting everything that moves, sort of makes you out to be an ignorant ass :/

People who are anti-gun and choose not own a firearm now have very few options when someone breaks into their home with a gun and has the intent to murder. I never said that you'd never get shot by owning a guy but the simple fact is this Mr. andkeener, most criminals are cowards and want an easy target. If I have a gun and am willing to use it when needed, I am no longer a easy target, no in fact I am now a very dangerous target. This is the land of the free, you can say what you will, but don't come bitching when someone you know gets raped and murdered in their own home because they had no way to defend themselves. I rely on myself, what do you rely on?

Acro-nym: Both. I was being a smart ass for most of that so try not to take me toooooo serious even if I do disagree with you on a few things. Also I wanted to know what kind of pistol you would want, not that you would want a pistol :/

GarretThe Thief: The P-90 is pretty neat but the civi version of it, I believe it is called the PS-90 is butt ass ugly. They extended the barrel and give it a rather unbalanced look. There is a huge waiting list for the semi auto version of the PN-90(? I might have them backwards) besides they are expensive. I'd rather just have a SKS until the Assault weapons ban gets lifted (if it gets lifted... )

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Lady Miyomi

I'd LOVE to have a double-barrel sawed-off shotgun! I've been saying this since I was kid. However, I don't think my fam will like the idea of me actually getting one.

However, if I absolutely have to get one, probably something really small and easy-to-use.

My grandfather has a double barreled shotgun (12 gauge), he has fired both barrels at once before. He said it hurt like a bitch and made him stagger. He is 6'2" and at the time around 180-200lbs.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Zio

Um, if you come in, busting down my door and I happen to defend my family or I. Then how am I sterotypical hick?

I am rather curious why you jump the gun(no pun intended) on that if someone threatens my household that I have no right to defend myself?

And as well, he can't sue me for injuries when he was TRESSPASSING on my land and did damages to my household by breaking and entering.

Sadly Zio they can sue you if they live... Just because they broke into your home does not justify killing them. Now should they have a gun out then you could probably say it was self defense to blow the guys brains out. If I found someone in my home and they weren't armed I'd make get on the ground at gun point and hog die them, wait for the cops to show up and if the fucking had the misfortune of twitching wrong he's dead. No one should fuck around when it comes to their safety, none of this shoot 'em in the knees bullshit.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by David4516

I had to vote "all of the above"...

I own about a dozen firearms, including rifles, shotguns, and handguns, as well as a couple of old black powder muzzle-loaders.

My favorite rifle is the Winchester Model 94. I've got 2, both in .30-30, one was a gift from my grandmother, it stays in my gunsafe most of the time, where it will be, well, safe. The other is a beat up one that was made in the 1970s, it's kinda rusty and the stock is all scratched and dinged. I take this one hunting (that way if i drop it in a creek or something I won't care because it was a crappy gun to begin with). It also sits behind my door, with some 110gr JHP (Jacketed Hollow Point) ammo that I handloaded (yes, I make my own ammo). This is one of 3 guns that I keep loaded in the house...

I also have a CHL (concealed handgun license), and own 2 handguns that I'll carry with me when I leave the house, the only execption being when I'm at school. I really wish it wasn't illegal for a CHL holder to carry in a college...

One of my "carry" pistols is a Makarov, a russian pistol that is very similar to the Walther PPK. Many consider it to be "the AK of handguns". My other pistol is a small Beretta model 950 "Jetfire", in .25ACP. Sure, it's small, but it beats throwing rocks... and it's really easy to conceal. Theres an old saying "a .25 in the hand beats a .45 in the safe"

I feel that guns and the people who own them are very "misunderstood". We aren't rednecks or hicks, just regular people who either have an interest in hunting or self defense (or both). Guns are not for everyone, and I respect that, however I don't think that you should have the right to tell me that I can't have one simply because it makes you "uncomfortable"...

As for when you should shoot someone, that depends on your location. If you're out on the streets, I'd only shoot someone if I had not other choice (like, say, running away). I see it as a last resort.

However, if someone breaks into your house, things change. You don't know why they're there, they might just want your DVD player, or they might be there to kill you and rape your wife/mom/daughter/sister. If someone breaks into my home, I have to assume that they have the worst of intentions, I cannot afford to give them the benifit of the dout. If someone breaks into my house, I will kill them without hesitation. I have 8 rounds loaded in my Makarov pistol at all times... and if I have to shoot someone in my home, the police will find them with 8 bullet holes when they come to pick up the corpse...

I know that might sound kind of crazy to some of you, but you'll understand what I'm talking about if your family is ever in danger. I'm sure Alice knows what I mean. Great story by the way Alice, I wish more moms were that protective of their kids, the world would be a better place... keep up the good work...

Yo David, have you ever read the provisions of the weapon ban on school property in your state?!? I don't know which state you are in but here in Oregon you are exempt from that law if you have a CHL. So unless you state has managed to pass a ban on them it is legal to care a handgun to school with a CHL. I suggest you read the law if you haven't already and don't let any of these shit head politicians/sherrifs tell you otherwise!

We have an organization OFF (Oregon Firearm Federation) that is fighting our corrupt state government from doing things that are illegal by its own laws. There might just be something like that in your state, so you might want to look into it.

OFF Website


andkeener: A firearm that is readily available in a home is a means to defend yourself against an armed intruder. What do you think happens when someone breaks into your home who is armed and has the intent to rape and murder your family, oh and guess what your family doesn't own a gun because they are "dangerous". To bad, sorry now rather than having the ability to fight back and win you have no chance what so ever. I find your logic to be stupid. Lets change the subject of your argument to armor. If I wear armor by your logic it will provide me no more safety than if I were naked. Remember andkeener a firearm is a tool, it can be used for many things but what most law abiding citizens use their firearms for is hunting and self defense. Putting restrictions on firearms only limits the private law abiding citizens from getting firearms, not the criminals. Criminals will always have the ability to get guns, never are they legal ways either.

Ok no more of this hick/firearm bashing. We are here to discuss what firearms the population of GFF owns and or wants. NOT whether or not you think gun ownership is stupid or only for hicks. So please stay on topic from now on...

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by andkeener

My point exactly, guns are a very primal way to deal with things. If you feel it 'necessary' to have one, thats fine with me. But I don't think that is the case in many (I'd say most) parts of the country.

Do you really think that people that break into houses do it just to kill someone? As long as you/a loved one haven't done anything to provoke someone to that state (for example: shoot someone they loved), don't you think the intruder would just take what they want and leave with out harming anyone if it wasn't needed? Maybe I'm just naive in thinking people don't want to harm others unprovoked.

I'd disagree. It is a very effective way to defend you in the properly trained hands. Would you rather people "talk" more to criminals and be more sensitive to the needs of the criminals in this world, maybe try and under stand why this man is in my home with a gun pointed at my head?

You really need to read this.

You sound like a man boy just asking to be killed. You think I am going to just stand there and let some piece of shit steal what I have worked so hard to get? You're a fucking idiot to think that any man would let that happen. Yes Mr. andkeener you go head and let those who move a hand against you to do whatever they want to you. Hope you don't mind being ass raped at gun point when they find you cowering in a corner because you are to chicken shit to stand up for yourself. Good luck with that.

Double Post:
Fuck, pretty soon this is going to end up being thrown into PP at the rate it is going...

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by tweeter

Gumby, I just read that you'd take a Berretta over a Glock... are you insane? They are pieces of metal and plastic glued together with a wholesome helping of feces... No really... they blow ass.

Glocks are pertiful. Our police here use .40 Glocks, ever since their Berrettas were discovered to be... less than reliable when in need.

Glocks are grabage in my opinion. I'd take a Colt 1911 over either Glock or Berretta any day of the week.

Originally Posted by ArrowHead

And you, sir, wouldn't know sh*t if it came out of your anus sideways.

Glocks are even crappier than berettas. Not that I would ever buy a Beretta anyway. They're ladies' guns!

Gimme something that takes a standard .223 round. Doesn't seem all that intimidating until you see what a good .223 pistol can do.

Umm I don't know about you but a .223 pistol is horribly undepowered for personal defense... If recoil is a problem there are better pistols than something that isn't even 6mm.

AliceNWondrland: Don't worry about keener, he seems to think that we can all just let anyone do what they want once they break into our homes and that the big bad man is really a nice person and won't doing any harm to the people who are inside.

Originally Posted by David4516

Gumby, I'm an Orygun resident as well... I live in Beaverton...

Illegal wasn't the right way to word it... The problem is that if I get caught with my handgun on college grounds, I get exspelled(spelling?). It's not really a "legal" issue, but an issue with school policy...

Reading this thread is alot of fun, because it's easy to tell who has real world gun experiance, and who learned everything they know from movies and counter-strike...

You do realize that by having a CHL you don't have to tell anyone that you are armed right? Not even police have any more right to know if you are packing. They may say otherwise but I suggest that you read that link I put up for OFF. There is a lot of good information. BTW I'm down in the capitol , I didn't realize there were any other people here who lived that close to me.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Wow a lot happened here since I last logged on...

ArrowHead: I suggest you get some real experience before you judge a firearm. The reason I don't like Glocks is that they are overpriced plastic garbage. I can get something far more reliable for more than 1/2 the price. BTW CS doesn't count as experience with a weapon. Also did you know that the reason why we use 5.56mm (.223) ammunition in the military is not to kill, rather it is to disable and force the enemy to use two other men to carry the wounded off the battle field, in my opinion unless you are in a fire fight with someone wearing Kevlar .223 would be horribly underpowered and in a life or death situation you want to end it as fast as possible... not have to shoot the other guy 3 or more times to take him down. You hear about those FBI agents who had to shoot someone crazed on PCP more than a dozen times to take him down? Oh btw they were using 9mm ammunition. Another reason why I prefer .44 mag or .45 ACP, should I ever have to use it I know it will not take 12 rounds to disable or kill someone.

David4516: Thanks for the rebuttals while I was gone. Seems you have been dead on the money so far. Have you ever heard of Hi-Point firearms? Seems they sell some dirt cheap and reliable pistols and pistol carbines. I've considered buying their .45ACP model. Can't beat the price at 129.99 retail.

AliceNWondrland: Yeah I don't see anything about murders :/ on a side note though we had some a few gang shootings a while back and this is Oregon!

Also about the dog idea. I wouldn't trust my life solely on a dog, even a trained police dog. I don't like putting my life in the hands of others when they can't even count... ASVAB Score = -10. Not to say that it is a bad idea for home protections as we have had our little lab/shar pai mix chase off an addict. Unfortunately he went to the next unlocked door which was our neighbors who had two teen aged girls asleep in bed . Needless to say it didn't end well.

Harmonica: A gun is never overkill for home protection, only the use of the gun could be overkill. i.e. someone breaks into your home and you pop out with a pistol or shotgun pointed at them and they run. If you shoot them running away that is murder. However if they in turn start to point a weapon at you or reach for anything and you shoot it is self defense. Remember, the only time when it is legal to kill someone is when they have 1.) Committed a felony and 2.) you are now fearful for your life or the lives of loved ones.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

You seem to think that because your country heavily regulates firearms that people don't have them. Remember, regulations on firearms take weapons out the of the hands of the citizens, NOT the criminals. Get a clue.

Quote:

""Bigger is better" stupidity. You know, if someone really wanted to do you in, he'd run you over with his car. So what are you going to do now, hide an RPG under the back seat?

This situation in itself is stupid Arrow, someone who wants to rob you is not going to run you down with a car. However someone who wants to murder you might just do that. Most criminals when you pull out a pistol are just going to run because you are now dangerous to them, they have lost control of the situation, and in all reality most criminals are cowards. Besides the fact that a shot from a .22 or .223 isn't always going to disable a criminal, a shot from a .45 will most certainly do a LOT more damage and unless the guy is wearing armor he will be down in a matter of seconds from blood loss.

Quote:

Owning a weapon doesn't make you all-knowing. It makes you armed, and predisposed to violence over thought.

You seem to be very ignorant on what it means to own a firearm here. I was taught at a young age to respect firearms, they are tools not toys. You seem to think that because I own them I am more likely to go out and start shooting people. I have said otherwise. I know when such measures such as a pistol or other form of defense are needed. Don't mistake those who own guns as mindless hicks who shoot up everything they see, this is not the case. I am not more predisposed to violence than anyone else. The difference is that I now have the ability to defend myself against an armed criminal. Something an unarmed citizen lacks.

Quote:

Looking at the statistics of how many children accidentally kill each other with their parents handguns, I beg to differ.

No, if properly used and handled a firearm is not overkill. Most of those situations are the fault of the parent for not giving their child a heathly respect/fear for a gun. You might want to beware those statistics, they like to include all those gang shootings into their statistics to over inflate the numbers.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Iwata

i think gun regulations are in need espically in regards to such weapons as shotguns. After this weekend's massacre up in seattle were an acquaintance of mine was killed by a shotgun. Seriously, why are shotguns legal? you really can't hunt with them without maiming the animal to the point of the meat being unusable. All they are is people killers.

I'm sorry that you have to suffer the loss of someone you know. But as ArrowHead has already said in more or less words, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." It is these sorts of knee jerk reactions that get stupid and pointless laws passed that only stop law abiding citizens from gaining firearms, NOT criminals. Cutting legal avenues of weapons will only cause a rise in deaths like this.

Originally Posted by Arrowhead

I'm more inclined to say that a man killed your friend, not the gun that he was holding. Shotguns are not as bad/pointless as hanguns.

Handguns serve just as much a purpose as shotguns do. I have no idea why you are so blindly biased against handguns but they are not only effective self defense weapons, they are also used to hunt small to medium game (sometimes large game by the brave...). A shotgun is great for home defense but you can't take a shotgun with you at all times.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Shotguns are a common weapon used to take down small and medium game. Just because you have never seen one used doesn't mean they aren't. Also if you had any experience with a shotgun you would know that we use buckshot on deer. BTW you aren't filling the animal with a lot of shot, large buck shot has less than 10 balls in it. Also before you eat the animal you pull out the shot, which is the same as when you dig out the slug of a rifle when hunting.

Also since people who want to bash on gun owners can't stay on topic here I have created a thread in PP. Go there if you have anything further to say people who own firearms or anything to do with how people shouldn't own guns.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Cal

What? Where are you booked for the honeymoon? Downtown Honduras?

Honduras is a Central American nation situated between Nicaragua and Guatemala.

What are you babbling about? I want something that she can use to defend herself because she is not a big person. How else do you expect a small woman to be able to defend herself?!?

Wesker: The M-1 is a pleasure to fire. Aw I'd love to own one, sadly though they are not cheap

Encephalon: As cool as it would be to own a .50AE Desert Eagle that is a waste of money. The .44mag Desert Eagle while still a hand cannon is far more manageable and practical for hunting and possibly home defense if you wanted to make sure that whom ever broke into your home was extra dead :/

Darkk Child: Geez, what would you need a .40 full-auto pistol for?!? Holy crap that would suck to fire.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

lol wow that is cheap. I don't think I could pass up an offer like that.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Encephalon

Well... It wasn't exactly legal, and there's a good reason why I don't own it anymore...

Doesn't Mexico outlaw any firearm that is in a caliber that the government uses?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Encephalon

I don't live in Mexico. I live in Central California.

Double Post:
Well... I've never thought it kicked as much as the .50, that's why it doesn't feel like it has such a heavy recoil... At least not to me.

That's why I like my Glock much more than I ever did the .50.

The mexican flag is decieving :/

Personally speaking I think a .45 would be the largest handgun I'd ever want to own... Plenty of power with out the bone breaking recoil.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Cal

Why are you obsessed with self-defence?

What makes you think I am? Safety is always an issue, no matter where you go. Since I can't be with her all the time to protect her I'd like her to have the ability and training to do so herself.

Besides the fact that I actually enjoy target shooting and hunting, I have a good number of reasons why I want and enjoy owning guns.

If you have any further arguements againsts gun ownership, take it to the PP. I started a nice little thread for all those that felt the need to argue in the wrong place.

How ya doing, buddy?

Naw Cal, I am not obsessed with guns. My grandfather is obsessed with them but not I. He owns more than a hundred different firearms ranging from derangers to an old tommie gun (which btw is a pretty bad ass smg) even an AR-15. I believe he has more than one old 1911 handgun. He is also armed at all times. I'd pity the man who tried to rob my grandfather.

Cal have you ever fired a gun before? Even if it was just for target practice, it is fun. While I never want to be put into a situation where I must use a gun against another person, I still would like to be prepared for such a situation.

FELIPE NO

I guess I take it for granted that in America we are allowed access to those sort of weapons. There are still a lot of restrictions but nothing like what the UK has.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

M-16A2 is really not one of my favorite rifles... I'm hoping when I get deployed I can get the M-249 instead

umm ArrowHead I didn't mean that literally... Also wtf are you trying to do? Brag about your use of a bow? Sorry bud but I am not impressed at your use of an outdated weapon. How heavy of a draw do you use on your bows?

Originally Posted by Asshead

Anyway, I'd love to see any of the dumbass gun nuts in this thread draw and shoot an english longbow, or talk their way out of a scary situation. Sadly, too many Americans these days are so quick to rely on mechanical implements. So many of their bodies and minds aren't good for sh*t.

Why do you have to be an ignorant asshole, Ay? You know what I'd love to see? A bow hunter take down an elk at 300yards in one shot. Remember Arrowhead this is a discussion of what firearms we want, NOT a place for you to bash on Americans or guns.

Hey MysteryRidah, you need to take your stupid anti-gun opinion to the PP, this is not the place.

Jam it back in, in the dark.