[PS2] Xenosaga III: Also Sprach Zarathustra

Originally Posted by Guest

Whoa.. I just saw The Da Vinci Code and it hit me like a ton of bricks.

Spoiler:

I bet the developer's really liked Dan Brown's novel. I'm surprised no one mentioned the similarities between Episode III and that movie. Of course, it doesn't come until the end of the game, when we find out about KOS-MOS's origin. I remember T-Elos saying Mary Magdalene was the partner of The Messiah, but I don't think she meant Jesus. It was obviously chaos since they had that kind of relationship. I'm more curious about Shion's role as Mary's 'maiden', a rather insignificant relationship which I believe deserved alot more detail. It'd have been much more interesting if they connected her to an actual person, with a real name.

Urge to replay Xenosaga III has increased by 72%.

(I just got the game, so that's why the late entry)

I'll do it as a spoiler just in case there are those--like me--who couldn't get it until now.

Spoiler:

I read the DaVinci Code before the movie came out, and the theories used in it are CENTURIES old. I had heard the theories myself and wanted to see how Brown had presented them to his readers. He did a fairly decent job--although bits of the story were contrived for entertainment purposes....

Wilhelm calls chaos "Yeshua"--which means Jesus. And Mary Magdalene was the companion of Jesus. And KOSMOS translates into order and chaos...well...chaos. So, who was everyone watching in Lost Jerusalem? Remember, Margulis was told they had worshiped a man they THOUGHT was the Messiah.

The person they were watching could have been nothing more than a man spreading the word of God--you know, a preacher. And since chaos was there, he could have helped the man along by performing those miracles that we know about.

Just something to ponder...

As for the ending. I thought it was a rather neat "trick" by the company. Think about it. People have been speculating about the Xenogears/Xenosaga character connections (not to mention certain building similarities *wink wink*), and reincarnation kept popping up. Living a life over and over and over....So, we can just go back to the beginning and keep playing over and over and over....

And, one last thought. About Allen:

About damn time!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I don't know how many people don't know about that part of the game (although I knew before I even bought the game), so spoiler tags might be good.

And how else were they going to explain the similarities to Xenogears with the characters? If you think back to what was said during that time, it all makes sense.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Okay....

So you do know what Xenogears is?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by MOLD

Ermm..... no... heheh... Heard of it. But never actually made sure I knew what it was. Feel free to explain. ^^;

Go here and look at it, and tell me if there's a familiar-looking image on the front page.


http://www.square-enix-usa.com/games/xenogears/

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

BK--huh, wha? What do you mean "retelling?"

MOLD: You found the connection. That's why Jin was where he was at the end of the game.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Okay. I see what you mean now. More of a "based on" approach than an actual retelling.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by B.K.

From the Xenosaga Episode III: Perfect Guide:

Spoiler:

17. What is the Maiden of Maria?
Shion's previous existence, the Maiden of Maria-- what kind of person was it? In the era of ancient Lost Jerusalem, the Maiden of Maria existed at what kind of position? And what kind of ability did she possess?

{captions}
1) Maria, as the actualized existence of the power of Animus in the real-number domain. She was the partner of the Messiah in the era of ancient Lost Jerusalem. (EPIII)
2,3) The graveyard of Rennes-le-Chateau. In the era of ancient Lost Jerusalem, Maria died when she divided the power of Anima into the Vessels of Anima, and this is where her body was laid to rest. (EPIII)
4,6) From the sealed Lost Jerusalem, only the land in the vicinity of Rennes-le-Chateau appeared in real-number domain space. (EPIII)
5) The hypersphere that surrounded Rennes-le-Chateau. (EPIII)


<<The "Apostles">>
　　　　"Apostle" means a person who devoutly endeavors in holy work. In the era of ancient Lost Jerusalem, there were 12 Apostles for the man who was called the Messiah. Because this number of people was used also in connection with later eras' religious authorities, nowadays after thousands of years have passed, it is difficult to confirm the exact number of people or exact members. There also existed many people around the Messiah who were similar to the Apostles.
　　　　Among the people such as that who encircled the Messiah, was Maria. She was the partner of the Messiah, and her existence, the same as chaos, was someone extremely close to the Messiah.
　　　　And then, in order to use that power of Animus in Maria, there was an existence that was also called Maria's Apostle. That was the Maiden of Maria-- Shion's previous existence.
[Refer to section: 15, 32]

<<Maria's Death>>
　　　　If the Maiden of Maria is necessary in order to use the power of Animus-- Maria's real form-- when the power of Anima was divided, the Maiden of Maria probably used that power.
　　　　The ability of the Maiden of Maria is the ignition that allows the release of the power of Animus, and it is also the released power's control. By that meaning, the manifestation of the power of Animus requires both Maria and the Maiden.
　　　　At that time, the power of Animus scattered throughout the UMN, and Maria's real-number domain existence died. Her body was buried at Rennes-le-Chateau.
　　　　Ages afterward, Maria's consciousness was revived in Kos-mos, and she spoke that long ago she ended up allowing the Maiden to die. Does this indicate that the Maiden of Maria also died along with Maria at that time? Or did Maria die, leaving the Maiden behind, and afterwards, the Maiden fell into a situation that lead to death? Either way, it is perhaps that the death of Maria and the death of the Maiden are not unrelated.
[Refer to section: 15, 25]

<<The Maiden's Death>>
　　　　Before the death of Maria. Shion's previous existence, the Maiden of Maria, met with death. But it is unclear what kind of event it was. However, the consciousness of Maria that had awakened in Kos-mos regretted that she was not able to protect Shion who was once the Maiden. In other words, it is thought that after chaos' power was divided, in the interval until Maria died, Maria lost the power of Animus, and right before her eyes, Shion's previous existence, due to some sort of incident, met with death.
[Refer to section: 25]

<<Apostle and Maiden>>
　　　　The Maiden of Maria constantly accompanied Maria. It was just like how the Messiah's Apostles accompanied him.
　　　　In other words, just as the Apostles were present where the Messiah was present, so too was the Maiden where Maria was present. If an image of those times had been left behind, maybe a figure of the Maiden of Maria could have been confirmed.
[Refer to section: none]

Thank you. That confirms what I thought.

Spoiler:

KOS-MOS' eyes always turned blue when she used her power to help Shion--Mary protecting her Maiden. This is why Shion was necessary to awaken Mary. Remember in Episode II--Shion (and Allen) were put in danger just so KOS-MOS would awaken and go after Shion. The more Shion was in trouble, the more times Mary would emerge until complete. (At least that's what they hoped).

FELIPE NO

Maybe no direct connection, but in reading the database, the creators sure are hinting at something.

And let me clarify this--I thought about this after I typed the above.

Bandai/Namco/Monolith really CAN'T do a direct connection--since Square owns the rights to the Xenogears story. However, they can hint as much as they want--unless Square says: "Hey, let's do a crossover thing."

Then the story will be re-written.....(which has already been done. Kevin was wearing the pendant when he died in Episode I, so how did he give it to Shion?)

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by B.K.

Spoiler:

chaos lost his physical body during the dimension shift. I assume his conscious still exists in the Unus Mundus. Wilhelm still exists too. He lost his physical body, but his consciousness still exists.

Spoiler:

Which, of course, can give Wilhelm what he wanted. That eternal repetition he was talking about. Reliving the lives over and over, which Shion told U-DO she wanted to do....

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Winter Storm

Your memory fails you I think. This was already explained in episode III during a cutscene. Before his death, way before actually, him and Shion sat out in thier living room and had a "moment" together. This is where Kevin gave her the pendant.

Ah, no. YOUR memory is failing you. I played Episode I just a week ago, and during the cutscene where Shion is holding Kevin's body, the pendant is around his neck.

I'll have to find a picture of it.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Winter Storm

Ohhhh wait. I understand what you're saying now. My bad.

My point was the story's already changed. In Episode I, Kevin was wearing the pendant, so seeing Shion with it in the game made her either a thief or it was willed to her. The whole idea of Kevin actually giving it to her made the whole story more poignant.

Inhert--that's the problem right there. Square owns the rights to the story, and unless someone buys it from them, they can't do anything directly with it. That's why the Xenosaga series is riddled with "hints" and "clues." It's not a direct connection, but the makers aren't letting anyone forget the work done on Xenogears, either.

Now, if Square would re-do Xenogears, so I can actually PLAY disc 2, I'd be very happy.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I always thought I and II should have been one game, but I can understand why they were split up.

I enjoyed II's battle system myself, since the skills you attached made them super strong in many battles (and forget MOMO--use KOSMOS). Don't use Shion, unless you plan on using the combo with Jin......

Anyway, that was another thing I enjoyed--you could also customize the ESes (?) in the game--depending on the co-pilot. That was a nice touch.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

In II, Jin is very useful. Since he doesn't have an ES in II, he's a co-pilot, and some of the combined attacks with others are POWERFUL.

B.K.: That's what I thought even before I saw the trailer. Don't forget, it also shows

Spoiler:

Jin and chaos' conversation at the Uzuki residence.

So, here's two questions for those who have played all 3 games:

Do you think Episodes I and II would have worked better as one game?

And do you think the "events" described as happening 6 months prior to the events in Episode III should have been made part of the game?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Winter Storm

LOL! Doctus much be extremely powerful to be able to do that to V4 KOS-MOS.

Well...the body WAS an android, you know. SO, of course she'd be pretty strong. I don't think they ever reveal who she really is, do they?

Quote:

I have to say though, the best scene to me is when

Spoiler:

Allen was telling off Kevin, all out of the true love for shion

Awesome awesome. To think he annoyed me much in the first 2 games.

I agree wholeheartedly! The words "About damn time!" came out of my mouth more than once. And how about

Spoiler:

Allen proving that yes, he can protect Shion, when he jumped on that Gnosis and beat it down? (Although, ironically, he had a machine gun in Episode I and protected her then against a Gnosis, too.)

Quote:

Leknaat I think EPII should have never been made if that counts.

No--doesn't count.

Quote:

Ok seriously I think it would have been better if the first 2 were all one game. For one thing, EPII was short lol. Albedo's role in EPI would have synched VERY WELL with his role in EPII. He's a great villain but doing that would possibly put him to the top of all villains in the RPG universe .

Oh, no--we can't have anyone top Sephiroth, now can we? But, as B.K. said, playing the first two games back to back helps. I did that when II first came out--to remind me of events, of course--but when I realized that after the intro, the game picked up EXACTLY where EP I left off--that's when I felt they should have been one game.

Or all three could have been one game split into Episodes. How many of us have played games with "3 months later" popping up on the screen? It could have been done.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

THIS is version 4:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6...os015qrmr1.jpg

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Cool, a thread on XS3.

I'm new in this whole Xenosaga-business, and I'm about three hours into XS3 (thought I might try out the series). I don't know, so far, the game only like a long dialogue, and I don't understand half of what's going on (empires here, armadas there). Jeez.

Actually, to update you on what Guest said:

XenoGEARS was made by Squaresoft at the same time that FF8 was in production. But, Square said--"No more money for Gears! We're giving it to FF8!" So, the second disc of Gears was full of narration with only a few playable parts. At the end of the game, you see: Chapter V.

Well, we got no more XenoGears, but the people who had worked on it at Square had left and formed Monolith--the people who bring you XenoSAGA. As Guest said, it was supposed to be longer, but due to money issues, and personnel changes (one of the main writers went bye-bye), they decided to stop at 3. (I remember speculation that XS3 was actually going to be for the PS3).

Now, legally, they can't call the game XenoGEARS since Square owns the rights to it, nor can they come out and outright say: Yes, they ARE connected--again, for legal issues. But, they can leave hints lying around leaving people to come to their own conclusions.

But, you TRULY need to have some familiarity with the first two games. There are too many references in 3 that don't make sense without it.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Try now. It's working for me, too.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Why only KOS-MOS? T-ELOS would be cool, too. Not life-size or fully functional, but cool, anyway.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Heh. I actually like that figure. I might get it myself. It would look so nice in between Auron and my singing hamster.....

Seriously, I do like it...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

We discussed this on the previous page, but I personally feel that I and II should have been one game. The second game picks up where the first one leaves off, so there's no gap. That's why there's little story development in II, and more character development.

In III, however, it all makes sense. I would stay with playing Episode II and then go on to III.

As for the depth of the story....Let me know when you finish, and I'll talk to you about my impressions of the story then. (It's not a cop-out, I just don't want to give anything away.)

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by B.K.

It doesn't. Xenosaga is a reimagining of Xenogears Episode I. They don't directly connect.

If anyone's interested, there's a group translating the Episode I Drama CDs and making a series of Flash movies out of them.

Xenosaga OUTER FILE ~ Home

"Testers: Moonstone and B.K."

Hmmm. Any relation?

I was speaking idiomatically.