Marines cover up massacre in Iraq

As usual the left wing press has rushed to judgement against the U.S. military over the alleged "Haditha Massacre". The press and the left have already tried and convicted the Marines invovled, portraying them as nothing short of SS stormtroopers. They've been described as cold blooded killers of innocent children. All this of course before all the facts have been brought to light. Do these brilliant leftists have access to all the ballistic evidence? Do they know what happened prior to and during this incident. Have they accounted for the fact that insurgents comminly use civilians as shields? No, of course not...it Mai Lai all over agian, and they're salivating over the chance to drag the military through the mud again. Oh, they'll say, but we have the accounts of witnesses...well lets look at the veracity of those witnesses.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...553969,00.html

Hmmm, seems like this town is a shithole of terrorist activity. No reason anyone from Haditha would lie about what happened. I'm not saying that The Marines are innocent, I'm just saying that we don't know yet, and that it's pathetic how the left wing press seems almost eager to convict them.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

And all of you are also rushing to judgement..based on what. Rumors? Press reports? Accounts from "unbiased" civilians? The investigation isn't over, all the facta aren't out yet you're all so damn sure these guys went on a bloodthirsty rampage.

Most amazing jew boots

Since so many of you have made up your mind already heres a somewhat different opinion

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060531/...s_iraq_terraza

or this from a Seattle TV interview with the marine who was next to the Marine who was cut in half by the IED

Crossan: We used to go out on patrols and have the little kids count the patrols and all that stuff and we couldn’t really do anything except grab them and throw them inside their houses…
KING 5 TV interviewer: Why would you do that? Because you were afraid that the kids were scouting for the insurgents or you thought they were in danger?

Crossan: There are little kids that scout for ‘em. ‘Cuz later that day we, along the main road there, we cut behind a few buildings and the next patrol that went out got hit. And that little kid that was just there and there was people all around. But the day that I got hit they were planning a major attack and it got spoiled, so, and there was like 20 some people, insurgents, that were gonna attack the cop that day.

Then we got hit by an IED and the cops sent out a squad of Marines, and the insurgents just started attacking then, just right off the bat and we just foiled it. We were just driving back from the cop. I remember taking a left and then a right, and then remember waking up from the ground for a split second. And then waking up in the helicopter and then finally knew what happened in the hospital.

KING 5: So after you were injured, also tell me, you lost one of your guys. What can you tell me about him?

Crossan: We lost Lance Col. Miguel Terrazas. He was a good guy. He was from El Paso, Texas. And he was my point man. He was pretty much the guy I went to if I needed anything.

KING 5: Was he driving the Humvee at the time?

Crossan: Yes he was.

KING 5. And so you were sitting next to me?

Crossan: Yes, I was in the passenger side. I know in my heart if I was there, I possibly could have stopped what happened, so. ‘Cuz I know that the other team leaders and even staff sergeants…they both, they all kinda, listened to me and I just gave ‘em ideas and all that stuff. Things just went smoother. But I just don’t know.

KING 5: How do you feel about the villagers involved? Um, you know, do you have emotion as you think about them or not really?

Crossan: No. Because half of them were bad guys. You just never know, so. It really didn’t cross my mind.

KING 5: There are reports of, you know, little children being killed and women being killed.

Crossan: Little kids I can see being bad and even some of the women, but just over there, you just can’t tell who the bad guy was..."

or this from an imbedded CNN reporter

It actually took me a while to put all the pieces together -- that I know these guys, the U.S. Marines at the heart of the alleged massacre of Iraqi civilians in Haditha.

I don't know why it didn't register with me until now. It was only after scrolling through the tapes that we shot in Haditha last fall, and I found footage of some of the officers that had been relieved of their command, that it hit me.

I know the Marines that were operating in western al Anbar, from Husayba all the way to Haditha. I went on countless operations in 2005 up and down the Euphrates River Valley. I was pinned on rooftops with them in Ubeydi for hours taking incoming fire, and I've seen them not fire a shot back because they did not have positive identification on a target. (Watch a Marine's anguish over deaths -- 2:12)

I saw their horror when they thought that they finally had identified their target, fired a tank round that went through a wall and into a house filled with civilians. They then rushed to help the wounded -- remarkably no one was killed.

I was with them in Husayba as they went house to house in an area where insurgents would booby-trap doors, or lie in wait behind closed doors with an AK-47, basically on suicide missions, just waiting for the Marines to come through and open fire. There were civilians in the city as well, and the Marines were always keenly aware of that fact. How they didn't fire at shadows, not knowing what was waiting in each house, I don't know. But they didn't.

And I was with them in Haditha, a month before the alleged killings last November of some 24 Iraqi civilians.

So, all you Monday morning quaterbacks who have never faced a life or death situation except while playing a video game, perhaps you can manage to reserve judgement on these guys until we have all the facts.

Does anyone remember LT. Pantano..accused of murdering iraqis, crucified in the press..and found NOT GUILTY.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Bradylama

"
If you're saying that we should wait to draw conclusions when the marines have completed their investigation, then that's fine, but when ballistics evidence isn't sought until after the bodies are in the ground, eyebrows get fucking raised.

Thats what i am saying. The press and certain political figures have been calling these marines butchers for a long, time, long before any conclusions were reached. the bodies were in the ground long before any investigation was started so thats irrelevant.

As to the so called cover up. If the Marines engaged in a firefight and the insurgents used human shields etc, given the currwent climate, perhaps the commnders thought it best not to say these people were collateral damage, they'd get skewered then too wouldn't they.

As th whether or not you want to let me continue to post thats your decision. i haven't name called, trolled or attacked anybody. if you want to ban me for my opinions then so be it. Tolerance i see seems to only be a one way street. You call it a blind opposition to reason, i see it as taking a more cautious approach and listening to all sides involved.

Of course the administration would NEVER sacrifice a few marines in order to keep their agenda intact and molify their critics.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Where is your evidence? Site your sources. The investigation is not over, the Marines haven't been able to give their side or speak in their defense, yet its too difficult for you to give them the benefit of the doubt.

My name is Mark, not Billy, unless you're trying to make some insulting reference.

Here's another alledged massacre, complete with similar pictures and accusations, that has been proved false....but my assertions that the Marines just might be innocent is insane.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...2032795&page=1

I was speaking idiomatically.

This article highlights by opinions quite well

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/co...538&catcode=13

How ya doing, buddy?

I'm not arguing that there wasn't some kind of cover up, but that can have occurred for various reasons. It seems more likely to me that after the IED went off there was gunfire directed at the Marines, as this is standard operating procedure for the insurgents. The Marines probably returned fire, perhaps with less discrimination than usual, at the houses and other areas from which, even 1 or 2 gunmen, could keep the squad pinned down. After the action, the Marines may have checked these houses and had an "oh shit" moment when they saw the collateral damage. That scenario is far more believable than insane bloodthirsty Marines bursting into houses and indiscriminatley killing 1 year olds. But again, I prefer to give these guys the benefit of the doubt and refrain from calling this a massacre or a rampage.

Oh yeah, is there a reason why my signature has been removed?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by a lurker

Why did you put it back? Mods hate when you do that.

I didn't..it just reappeared.

I'm not inventing scenarios, there is just as much or little evidence to support what I've said as there is to support the rampaging killer marine idea. The whole point is is that all the evidence isn't out there, but that doesn't stop papers like the LA times from running inflammatory articles such as this one.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...ines-frontpage

Uncorraborated witness terstimony obtained by an Iraqi reporter from a hotbed of insurgency is apparently is treated as a true and verified account.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Niekon

You are trying to defend something that you know nothing except what Scarborough Country has spewed at your skull. And guess what? You drank it up without even questioning anything. Congrats... Jerry Falwell welcomes you to the fold.

What the hell are you talking about?? I'm just offering a possible alternative. I'm not defending the actions of the marines, I'm saying we do not yet know what those actions were and to call them rampaging bloodthirsty killers before we have all the facts is a reckless rush to judgement. And what the fuck does that idiot Jerry Falwell have to do with any of this?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by a lurker

It's true, you are. So perhaps you should stop it.

Everybody else: " The marines ransacked homes, went on a rampage, killed in cold blood.

Me: Wait we don't have all the facts, maybe it happened a different way

Everybody else: True, we don't have all the facts, but you should keep your insane ideas to yourself because they don't fit with the way we think things happened, the marines went on a rampage, yadda yadda yadda

Nice to see you're all so open minded, I'm glad you are all so well informed as to know exactly what happened. God forbid we give these guys the benefit of the doubt.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Even when the troops are cleared by an official investigation, there are still all kinds of allegations of cover ups and what not.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1002613009

Haditha may turn out to be just what everyone thinks and if so the marines should be punished, but putting alot of faith in reports from Iraqi sources isn't the best source to put your faith in. I for one do not think our marines go about shooting babies on purpose.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

No need to get insulting. I'm done with this thread for now. We'll see what happens when all is said and done. If its a rampaging massacre of bloodlust, as you're all inclined to believe, then I'm sure the marines will be punished, but if its something less, such as a collateral damage incident, I hope there isn't a call to sacrifice these guys on some political altar.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?