[Wii] The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Discussion Thread

When did Nintendo transform into a bunch of f*cking hypers?

Remember the time before OoT was released? Every month there were tons of new screenshots. I always anticipated the moment when I got the next issue of my favourite Nintendo magazine.

The only advantage of the news flaw is that I don't get spoiled. I want to experience this game in all its glory. It's the first one I'm looking forward to so much since OoT.

How ya doing, buddy?

I just hope that they improved the graphics drastically since these shots here look like shit.


Unless they're going to release the game for N64 I won't tolerate that.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Reznor

You can have a short game with amazing graphics.
You can have an amazing game with shitty graphics.
You can have an amazing game with amazing graphics with an amazing 5 discs and amazingly long loading times.

You forgot the fourth option - amazing game with amazing graphics on one disc without long loading times, as seen in "Metroid Prime".

Disc space has virtually nothing to do with graphics unless you're talking about FMVs or prerendered backgrounds. But as we know Nintendo with their real-time cutscene politics there won't be any movies ("The Wind Waker" had two - the demo video and the epilogue with staff roll, but both are no real FMVs because they were just recorded ingame graphic scenes) and at most a few prerendered BGs ("Ocarina of Time" had 35 static and something like two dozen 360° prer. BGs, "Majora's Mask" and "The Wind Waker" had none). I don't really care if they use prerendered backgrounds or real-time graphics as long as it looks amazing and the controls are good. Look at Baten Kaitos: Prerendered backgrounds in 640x480, still beautiful.

Originally Posted by Lukage

I'm pleased to announce there is a new breed of Nintendo fans:

Those who have been corrupted by the new craze for graphics graphics graphics and more graphics.

How about talking about the videos or interviews regarding the reliability of the horse? Perhaps the boss difficulties?

Would anyone like to remember that these aspects are what matters in a game?

Gameplay

Ask anyone who liked Wind Waker. They praised the actual aspects of gameplay not bitched about the cell-shading.

Actually I hated some aspects of Wind Waker's gameplay (the tedious sailing, treasure hunting in general, looking for the Triforce pieces, the easy boss battles) yet absolutely loved all of its graphics. Graphics are not about realism - the main target should be perfection. OoT and MM had some of the finest graphics on the N64 because it brought the hardware to the limit, same with "The Wind Waker" (ever played the dungeon on Dragon Roost Island? You'll know what I mean, then). I just don't want TP to look like a buggy first-generation GCN game. I want Nintendo to create top-notch graphics for their last big GCN title and use more than 10 polygones inside a city.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by RushJet1

mario sunshine had pre-rendered videos.

though, i always wonder why? the gamecube could have pulled it off better without all those compression problems the fmvs had!

Yeah, "Super Mario Sunshine" being the big exception. But most of Nintendo's games only feature an intro and maybe an outro FMV.

Originally Posted by galen

Probably having something to do with the storage capabilities of the media. It's easier to store a video+audio all done than it is to have all those resources and load them up in real-time.

This is probably the second most important reason FMVs are used - they're more convenient than real-time graphics. As you said, real-time graphics have to store all voice samples, music tracks and SFX externally (wether it is one big streamed track or lots of small files depends on which method uses less disc space) and the sound has to be synched with the ingame graphics. The more FMVs you have, the more convenient will be the 60Hz to 50Hz conversion in PAL territories, for example (disregarding the fact that the FMV audio has to be stored in a 50Hz version on the disc).

Originally Posted by watkinzez

They weren't recorded. They were done real time in the game engine. The only difference was you didn't have to press 'A' to scroll through the text. Goes the same for the intro movie, just a bunch of scrolling images and some fade in and out text. Recording those for use on the disc would be a waste of space.

title_loop.thp
end_st_epilogue.thp
These are the two files in "The Wind Waker"'s movie folder.
THP is a GCN movie format that stores videos by separating the frames into pictures in a format quite similar to JPEG. Audio is stored within these frames, too.
title_loop.thp is the trailer that was shown at E3 (or TGS, I'm not sure) before the game was released. This one is played when you leave the controller untouched at the title screen (when the logo is shown in front of the ocean).
end_st_epilogue.thp is the epilogue and staff roll movie. It starts after the farewell scene from Hyrule. Link and Tetra being rescued by the pirates is a movie, NO real-time scene although it was recorded from real-time graphics. The same goes for the staff roll. The last scene where they all depart in search of a new Hyrule is real-time, though.
The intro ("The Legendary Hero") is of course no FMV - that would have been a total waste, indeed as its just the camera scrolling over some TPL textures.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Yeah, I think those big ones from IGN are the latest official screens of the game.

By the way: The picture Infernal Monkey posted is a fake, unfortunately. It was created and used by Hyrule.net in order to show us that we anticipate the game. :eyebrow: Well, as if I hadn't known that before...

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Miyamoto: "Twilight Princess" will be "perfect".

How ya doing, buddy?

@David Deluxe: My post was originally meant to be more of a newsflash rather than an opinion of mine. Hell, I didn't even read the article (just the headline and the introduction in italics, hence the title).

@Rock: See RushJet1's post.

Twilight Princess is being hyped to no end, that's for sure. And trust me: I'm probably one of the most sceptic persons when it comes to hyping. But this is no Sony or Microsoft after all. Zelda is Nintendo's biggest franchise, they would be stupid to make too much promises (remember the pre-release time of "The Wind Waker", they never told us it would be the best Zelda ever and voilà, there you have it - decent game but no biggie) they can't keep. And I don't really care if it won't be a masterpiece like OoT (it'll help, of course).

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Originally Posted by Rock

The game would have been perfect for me if they had released it like, a year ago.

I'll quote Miyamoto here: "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever".

Please go back to page 3 and look at the screens I've posted. These are not even a year old and literally scream "improve me, improve me".

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by b-hc.net|andrew

I feel as if the game is going to come out on the Rev. No doubt... I mean it would be excellent if it was a GCN title... but with all of the waiting.... it could be the first big 'hit' on the rev... but then again it could be the last big hit on the GCn..... time is the only ting that can tell!

Nintendo promised several times that it will be a GCN only title (which doesn't mean that there won't be Revolution compatibility). They want to do this for the GCN owners that have long waited for the game.
I really don't think this will be converted to a Revo-title, unless Nintendo fusions with Capcom.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Helloween

I'm with Forsety. Nintendo has said that will be a Gamecube title, mind you they did deny Wii functionality initially, or am i mistaken.

I really don't want this to be true. I was so looking forward to wrapping my hands around this one for way too long to have to buy a new console to play it.

The thing is Nintendo never denied the Wiimote functionality, they just said that "no new info" about TP was released. And I really don't see a reason to make that game a Wii-only title. Someone else mentioned it a few months back - the strategy Nintendo is making now is best: Selling the new console with a great launch title as well as the old consoles still in stock.

Personally I think two different versions of the game will be released, one for GameCube and one for Wii, the latter version with Wii-functionality and maybe some graphical tweaks. If that's the case I'll get the Wii-version, even if the GCN-version will be released earlier.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Double profit. Call it the Capcom-strategy: Release a game for an old system. Wait a few months. Throw in some extras and re-release it for a new console. Laugh your ass off because of all the people buying it again.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Get the new trailer.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

EGM is reporting that the Wii-version of "Twilight Princess" will only be playable in widescreen mode. Is this... a disadvantage for someone without a TV supporting widescreen?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Nintendo 4 life

Epona was always scared of link as a child

And that's exactly the reason why she comes when Link play's Epona's song.

Originally Posted by Nintendo 4 life

u cant become a adult

Allrighty.

Originally Posted by Nintendo 4 life

you lose all your items each day

You lose the temporary items when a new circle begins and they are really easy to stock up again.

Originally Posted by Nintendo 4 life

the storyline at the start of the game doesnt seem like a big deal

It's more mysterious than OoT. Does any Zelda need Ganon to have a good story?

Originally Posted by Nintendo 4 life

bad way to stop being a shurb

Bad thing I don't know what the hell a shurb is. But I'm sure I could've been able to disprove that argument, too.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Forsety

That issue was fixed in the GCN version, but yeah... don't save there, or before opening the Eldin Bridge warp point (when the bridge falls) or you'll be unable to progress through the game. Two game destroying issues which the GCN version fixed it seems.

The bridge of Eldin game ending glitch ist not real. It has been debunked through several tests and is not even existing in the Wii version. No matter when and where you save at the Eldin Bridge, you'll always end up on the right side.

Was the cannon glitch also fixed in NTSC GCN versions of TP? I tested it two days ago on my PAL copy and was very happy it wasn't there anymore (still I have sympathies for those who saved there on the first print - maybe you should sue Nintendo or something).

FELIPE NO

Toru Minegishi was the leader of the composition team with Asuka Ota and Koji Kondo just providing a few tracks.
Actually I wouldn't be surprised if the overworld theme was by Kondo because it seems far too good of a composition for Minegishi.
I really disliked most of TP's music because it was repetitive and somehow most of the tracks seemed "random". Some arrangements of classic tracks are also really bad (e.g. Ganondorf's Theme).

Michiru Oshira orchestrated the two trailer tracks known as "The Legend of Zelda: Orchestra Piece #1" (E3 2005) and "The Legend of Zelda: Orchestra Piece #2" (E3 2004). The game itself doesn't feature orchestrated music (thanks Nintendo for once again lying to us about that).


Now that I've played through the game, here a few thoughts:

Spoiler:

PROs:
- graphics are for the most part absolutely gorgeous (although there are very often framerate issues in the GC version, do those appear when playing the GC version on the Wii?)
- great items (Spinner and Ball & Chain are so much fun to use)
- wolf portions very well done (not boring at all which I thought they were)
- pretty much confirms a split timeline after OoT (guess it takes place after the child ending in OoT)
- Midna as a well thought out deep character (who would've thought that?)
- fantastic boss battles (Stallord was my favourite)
- overall length (about 55 hours for the first playthrough)

CONs:
- no character development of Zelda and Ganondorf
- no trading sequence/real sword upgrades (would've been nice to transform the Master into the Golden sword or something like that)
- inconsistent German translation (I know, not really a problem of the game itself but how could Nintendo release that? "Death Mountain" --> "Fire Mountain"?? "Farone/Eldin/Lanayru" --> "Phirone/Eldin/Ranelle"?? Are you retarded? I've learnt in fifth grade that proper names are not translated - you destroy the whole Farore, Din and Nayru connection that way)
- the music synthesizer is way too bad - the GameCube could do so much better (I was very disappointed when I first entered Hyrule Field and noticed that the Main Theme sounded worse than on the official soundtrack)
- a lot of the music is not composed very well, arrangements sound not as impressive as the originals
- framerate issues in many areas
- story is completely absent in the latter half of the game (Why does Ganondorf kidnap Zelda? Because it's tradition? Why were Zelda and Midna's hearts fused? Was Midna given the Triforce of Wisdom by Zelda for a short time?)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Spoiler:

I guess she destroyed the Mirror of Twilight because of two (possibly three) reasons:

1. "Light and shadow can't mix, as we all know."
2. She was probably afraid of someone breaking the mirror again - she knew of the evil might of the mirror shards that could transform people into monsters and didn't want that to happen again.
3. At the end it seemed like she had some feelings for Link ("I... See you later." or the scene in the Gerudo Desert in which she touches Link's face so gently) and she just didn't want the two of them falling in love with each other after all. Either because it's just not right for a Twili to be together with a Hylian or to be considerate of possible feelings of Ilia/Zelda.


Also, here my new timeline theory:

TMC - FS - OoT (Child Ending) - MM - TP - ALttP - OoX - LA - TAoL - TLoZ

TMC - FS - OoT (Adult Ending) - TWW - PH - FSA

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Oh, Grubdog said there is no timeline. Must be true since he used capital letters.

Originally Posted by Cellius

It's this ridiculous contrivance that some people buy into in a poor attempt to justify a sensible timeline for the games. They claim that time was split at the end of the game, so there's a timeline that follows child Link and one that follows adult Link. Stupid. I wish people would stop trying to organize the Zelda series into a single line by making up shit and just enjoy the stories as individual, unrelated adventures.

Making theories about how exactly the games connect is actually a game itself I play everytime after beating a Zelda title. More fun for me.

Spoiler:

The split timeline is not "stupid" if you pay close attention to the events in TP. Ganondorf vowed revenge after he was defeated in OoT and wanted to kill the descendants of Link and Zelda. He would have adressed the two of them with a few words in TP if he was so eager to kill them. He doesn't recognise the Master Sword either.

1. Ganondorf gets into the Sacred Realm and touches the Triforce splitting it into three parts -> He kills the seven Sages (maybe the same Sages as in TP) because he feels threatened by them -> Adult Link awakens new Sages -> Ganondorf is defeated and sealed in the Sacred Realm in adult Link's timeline -> Hundreds of years later Ganondorf breaks the seal but since the Hero of Time doesn't exist anymore in this timeline the Godesses see no other possibility than flooding Hyrule -> Link collects his Triforce and defeats Ganondorf -> Link and Tetra set out to find a new Hyrule -> Events of "Phantom Hourglass" -> Events of "Four Swords Adventures" (could go in the child timeline as well but since the landmass changed so drastically it seems like this is New Hyrule)

2. Link, being sent back seven years in time, warns everyone about Ganondorfs intentions -> He never gets into the Sacred Realm altough he attempted to -> The Triforce is never split -> Ganondorf is sentenced to death and punished by the Sages at Arbiter's Grounds -> By some "divine prank" the Triforce is now divided into three and Link, Zelda and Ganondorf get their parts -> Ganondorf cannot be defeated, instead he kills the Sage of Water and is banished to the Twilight Realm afterwards -> Link visits Termina -> The Master Sword is moved to a saver place, the Sacred Grove, where a new Temple of Time is built ~ Skull Kid is ordered to protect it from intruders -> Events of "Twilight Princess"

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Originally Posted by Cellius

Spoiler:

Master Sword moved to a safer place? New Temple of Time constructed? Skull Kid ordered to protect this place?

You're making this up.

There is never any consistency in Hyrule's landscape between games. If the creators wanted to imply that more of the series was was related, then that would be a good place to start, but they're not doing that.

Not true. Just look at TP's map. The majority of the places are in the same position as in OoT with just the Kokiri Forest being a little more to the south and Zora's Domain a little more to the north. Ordona Province, the southern part of the Desert Province (with Arbiter's Grounds), Snowpeak and North Hyrule (Hidden Village - Old Kakariko) were not reachable in OoT.


Same for TWW. Nintendo tries hard to make the landscape consistence between the single titles lately.

If you look at the basic architecture of TP's Temple of Time you'll see it's not the same. Unlike OoT, the Door of Time in TP is the entrance to the Temple of Time, not to the Master Sword pedestal room.

It's plausible that it was moved there seeing as how easy it was for Ganondorf to reach the Sacred Realm in OoT.
Sure, the Skull Kid part was interpretation on my side. But it's possible: Skull Kid still knows Saria's Song which was taught to him by OoT Link. Just as possible as the White Wolf being the Hero of Time because of the songs you play for him.

Then again, why even partake in the discussion when you say there's no timeline at all?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It wouldn't have been necessary to mirror it in the first place. All this swapping is just stupid PR shit to make people buy the Wii version (or both). It wouldn't of made a difference to leave the game like it is on the GCN.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

For semi-official timelines, see Zelda Legends. The timeline articles are very interesting, too.

I was speaking idiomatically.

How could I forget about one of the biggest flaws in the game?

"But your wallet is full. So lets put it back for now."

Most annoying gameplay mechanic ever.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Cellius

What? So you'd rather completely waste all those rupees just so you can say, "Ahhh, another chest down!"

Errr, yes? I don't give a damn about having rupees but I want to beat every Zelda game at 100% (if possible) which includes opening all chests. And having to put the Magic Armor on everytime you want to open a chest was just tedious and annoying. One simple choice would have solved the issue:
Do you want to keep it anyway?
- Keep it
- Put it back

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by PsychoJosh

But, sadly... no. They wanted it done in time for the wii launch.

Then again... I really don't think they would have delayed it for another year.

The real problem is that the last year was not used primarily for tweaking the game but for creating the Wii controls. That's why the game seems rushed in the final dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Cellius

Spew that uninformed nonsense on IGN, but not here. There are so many advantages to using MIDI - especially in a game like this - that to complain about it only reveals your ignorance.

Is that so? Name a few.

Jam it back in, in the dark.