Emo / Depression

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I can't help but think that all this teenage angst is a direct result of people having entirely too much time for self-reflection.

You might have a point, but that's only looking at one half of the issue that I believe that Lehah is trying to raise. On this particular continuum, we have agnsty teens at one extreme end. They don't actually have any real problems, for the most part. They have, in fact, a surfeit of money, free time, and material objects. They are adopting it as a style choice, much as Devo suggested. That's one extreme. At the other end, you have people who suffer from a genuine, and debiltating depression. It has only a limited amount to do with self-reflection, or self absorbtion, and it is largely a product of that persons brain-chemistry. In short, it's an illness, much like diabetes, and it's something that the person in question does not have the power to change, without help.

There exists a vast gulf between those two extremes, in which you find angsty teenagers who actually do have significant problems, and people who have, with the aid of medical science, learned to deal with their depression, to the point that it no longer lays waste to their lives.

I can only speak of one end of the spectrum, the end that I have personal experience of. I do suffer from clinical depression, or to be more specific, a mild form of bipolar disorder. I am fortunate. I know people who are much worse off than I am. Most of the time, as long as I am conscientious in managing it, it doesn't affect me anymore, but then I am at the end of what has felt like rather a long road.

I don't feel that I could ever have been accused of "teen angst", though, since it really only became a problem that I was aware of when I had left my teenage years long behind me. Since being angsty and being "emo" have been linked to having too much time on ones hands, I feel compelled to mention that my worst episode ever was during a time when I was working an average of 60 hours a week.

My point in telling you all of this is to put across my own opinion, which is that there does exist a substantial group of people for whom it's simply not something that they can control without help. A diabetic person requires insulin to maintain their glycaemic balance, and a depressive person requires anti-depressants to maintain the balance of neurotransmitters. It is really that simple.

I would also point out that my mother suffers from depression as well, so it's not something that the older generation is immune to. It seems to me that the older generation simply have a tendancy to suffer in silence. That does not, of course, mean that they are not suffering.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

Obviously I wasn't talking about clinical depression, although I do think that there are more depressed people now than ever. I'd have to look up the statistics on that, but I'm pretty sure that's accurate.

There are more people diagnosed with depression than ever before. That does not mean that there are more people suffering with depression than ever before.

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I totally stick by my theory, by the way. It could be something as simplistic as the fact that people used to be more physically active or possibly it's because they literally didn't have time to sit around and angst over their pitiful lives, but I guarantee you that none of our grandparents experienced this emo bullshit attitude that you see so much these days.

You have no way to prove this. Am I supposed to treat this as an argument out of authority, or is it some other kind of logical fallacy? It's definitely pure rhetoric, and nothing more, because there's no way to prove it.

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For one thing, their parents would have slapped the shit out of them and told them to get a better attitude.

If you think that this would help anyone, or cause them to change their attitude, then you're sorely mistaken. You have children. You should know better.

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For another, as I said before, they simply didn't have several hours each day to devote to being depressed.

Ya know, it's not exactly a time-consuming activity. My advice would be to quit this discussion now before you make yourself look bad.

Originally Posted by Cyrus XIII

No offense, but I seriously hope you will never raise children. Not that I'd expect you to beat them around on a daily basis but you simply seem to lack any empathy for the emotional sensibilities of other people.

Ya, seriously. Aside from the fact that I already know Alice has kids, I could not agree with you more.

Originally Posted by AlicenWonderland

Although I've very rarely spanked my own children, that doesn't change the fact that the world was a better place when kids had respect (possibly brought about by a healthy fear of getting their asses beat if they didn't act respectably) and accepted their roles as contributing members of their families and society.

That's the thing, though. They never had respect, all they ever had was fear. On the inside, they could have been loathing and resenting their parents, and their attitude might never have actually changed. Sure, if you wanna just gloss over the whole problem...

I'm not denying most of these kids just have an attitude problem, and aren't really suffering in any meaningful way. What I am saying, though, is that your ideas as to how best to handle that kind of problem will lead to bad results. Children aren't dogs, and shouldn't be treated as such.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I hate quote wars...they're so tedious.

Define "Quote War". I'm just quoting your post the better to contextualise my responsese.

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My sister was recently diagnosed with "severe depression," so don't assume I'm one of those people who doesn't believe in depression, OK?

I really don't assume that, Alice. However, I do disagree with you that you can bring about any meaningful adjustment to the attitude of a child who doesn't wish to change his attitude. You can't do it by discussion, and you can't do it by corporal punisment. All you can do is to cow the child, force them to toe the line, and force them to conceal their real attitude. If that's enough for you, then fine.

In order to achieve meaningful change, though, a person of any age needs to actually want to change. The best way, in my opinion, to bring this about is to show that person the rewards of change. For example, if the hypothetical child to which we are referring stops being angsty, and moping about in his room, he can get a job, and earn money with which to buy eyeliner and Linkin Park records.

For the record, I'm actually very sorry that I questioned your parenting skills. I still agree with Cyrus XIII that you "seem to lack any empathy for the emotional sensibilities of other people", but God knows that's not something which gives me cause to be so rude.

I actually do believe in corporal punishment, but not as motivator to change the attitude of a child. I believe in it as the ultimate sanction, for behaviour which is simply way out of line. For example, if I had children, and I found out that one of them had knowingly used a racist term of abuse, I'd be damn sure to slap his ass. However, I fail to actually see the wrongdoing involved in being angsty. Even if the child in question has no actual problems, I believe that greater results would be achieved as a result of discussion, rather than punishment.

Originally Posted by Alice

we're probably going to have to call a truce on this one.

Assuming you were addressing me on this one, I think that I've apologised sufficently for my own rudeness, and clarified my position to the point where mutual respect can exist, so... pax?

Originally Posted by daxy

Actually Emo is nothing else then a style of hair clothes and music.

A lot of my friends are "emo" but are not depressed in the slightest. They just dress in the type of clothes the majority wants them to wear and put their hair all "emo" and listen to bands like atreyu and you name it.

This is true. There are two subsets of "emo", which intersect to a certain degree. Emo and agnsty, or Emo-style. A former work-colleague of mine dressed in a very Emo style, but he was among the more cheerful and motivated people I've had the priveledge to know.

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