Saved By the Bell isn't actually good.

Originally Posted by a lurker

Zero tolerance is what you can expect when parents get freaked out about the dangers lurking at your school, and want answers now.

I live right next to a high school and I was walking my dogs there a couple months ago as I did from time to time, and a cop came up to me. He told me that I wasn't allowed to walk my dogs on school property in the city limits. I said OK but asked him why. He said a few years before, some kid stepped in dog poop while at recess and his parents sued the school district and won.

These policies aren't about safety, they are about liability.

I mean, think about the third example: "Mommy! Timmy brought a knife to school today!"

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by RainMan

'No Tolerance' is "justifiable grounds" for taking away the rights of others.

Minors have very few rights.

Originally Posted by RainMan

This doesn't necessarily prevent a violent crime from happening as someone will go out of their way to break rules if the intent is there. There will NEVER be enough resources for ABSOLUTE safety for the students.

That's a more compelling argument, but it's really not the reason for zero tolerance.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Monkey King

However, they do so in a lazy, stopgap way that requires no real thought or effort. Rather than actually have competent school counselors, or look into whether a child is just expressing the typical teenaged angst, or anything that requires judgement on a case-by-case basis so that everyone gets the sort of attention they need, they throw down a blind catch-all policy that punishes innocent expressions while without really being vigilant for the warning signs of a troubled child.

It should be said that with the budgets public schools are under, the sort of case-by-case basis thing you are talking about would stretch an already thin system. And what competent counselor would want to work at a school that pays so little?

It's easy to blame people who work at schools for things that happen at schools even if it isn't their fault.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It's easier to err on the side of over-caution than to try and figure out the right thing to do every single instance anything comes up. I mean, how much spare time do you think the overworked school teachers and administrators have? Do you think they're really getting paid to put up with a bunch of bullshit kids who, more and more each year, treat them like absolute shit? And the parents are even worse.

The parents appeal decisions more and more through the court of law. I'd rather schools err on the side of caution than pay more in taxes for school budgets going increasingly to litigation fees.

Imagine if a school let something by that it could be proven it wasn't actively trying to stop! We're talking millions and millions of dollars.

Plus, as always, minors don't get the same privileges as old folks. That isn't just in school, that's basically in every single facet of life.

I chalk all this whining up to the age of the people having this discussion. Too much bias here, especially since every one who is whining also claimed they got in trouble. Most people complain about things they get in trouble for.

How ya doing, buddy?

It's not that it isn't wrong, but I'm talking lesser of two evils.

Edit: Taking anecdotal evidence is hardly a way to convince me that it isn't working. I mean, that website Styphon posted had 3 years of blog posts with about 4-8 per month. It's hardly an epidemic if, over all the bad things that happen, about 100 people got in trouble for ridiculous reasons.

Edit 2: Taking anecdotal evidence is hardly a way to convince me that it isn't worthwhile.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by agreatguy6

I hate 0-Tolerance.

Originally Posted by afairlyconfusedguy6

if only the justice system were "Guilty until proven innocent"

Oh, OK.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Crash Landon

I'm still allowed to be a conscientious objector, aren't I?

Nope. I meant to blanket my statement over every single person that has ever lived that objects to zero tolerance and to not exclude anyone even if it doesn't make sense.

(Or I could read every post in this thread again and see that many posts apply to what I said.)

(Or you could argue on the merits of what I have to say about the topic itself, but that would mean you'd have to address issues like liability and other areas where minors don't have rights, neither of which you've touched on.)

FELIPE NO