On learning Japanese, and also, how many of you know/master it?

I majored in Japanese for 3 years (+ one year in Gifu, totaling 4 years of active studies) and cleared level 2 of the JLPT. I was going to take a shot at level 1 last year, but overslept and missed it. It wouldn't have been such a big deal had it not been for the fact that it costs a lot of money to enter AND it's held annually, only once a year. Better luck next time :P.

Anyway, I am pretty confident with my Japanese, but I don't think I'll ever to be able to truly MASTER it since it takes considerable time to study the many layers that conprise the Japanese language. Beyond many different levels of politeness you need to fully understand the dialects as well before you can even start claiming that you're a master, that not even mentioning the fact that you need to learn about 2000 kanji before you can read an ordinary newspaper! Above this, there are many ways in which you can personalize your own identity using personal pronouns etc., one of the more interesting aspects of Japanese IMO.

The kanji part in itself takes ages to memorize and learn and I'm still, after 4-5 years time, struggling with it because it takes more than just memorizing the 2000 kanji by heart. Just knowing the form of the kanji isn't enough! You need to know the different "on"(Chinese) and "kun"(Japanese) readings for each one of them and if that wasn't enough some kanji are read in special ways that, sometimes, won't even appear in your dictionary if you search by using convential methods. You just have to learn them by heart, IF you are lucky enough to encounter them, that is.

But enough about the Japanese language in general and more about me. As I mentioned before, I've been to Japan for roughly one year, in Gifu. I was an exchange student and I didn't start out very well since my Japanese skills were under average and there were times when I couldn't find the words, simply because my vocabulary wasn't all that great. Sure, I knew how to present myself in front of a group, do some simple shopping, order stuff at the restaurants and make simple conversation with the natives, but it just wasn't satisfactory and sometimes quite frustrating.

But then something happened. Due to the fact that most Japanese don't speak English very well and also partly because I was determined to improve my Japanese, I gradually got better. I went from being one of the worst in my class to being one of the very best and I succeeded many of my classmates. I tried to use my time wisely and spent as much of my free time as possible on making new Japanese friends, learning stuff from them each and every day and I still talk to them over MSN or the phone etc. so as to keep in touch and, at the same time, prevent the deterioration of my Japanese.

I can honestly estimate that I must have improved 100 times during my year as an exchange student and my Japanese is still improving. My skills are now good enough to be able to, for instance, play RPGs in Japanese (yay, native language for the win!) which I enjoy a lot, being a video gamer (yup, I've said it) since childhood. I can engage in deeper conversation and I'll actually be working as a translator, translating spoken Swedish/English into Japanese, for about a week starting next month. These are only references for you to understand how much I've progressed and I am in no way trying to brag about my skills (even though I am damn proud of myself getting this far).

Originally Posted by ultima

Although they aren't as cute as in the legends so I don't know why you'd want to.

Hahaha, right you are. In fact, 80% of all japanese girls I've seen have, in my opinion, been quite ugly. Some are pretty hot, but must people will probably get turned off when they realize that not all japanese girls look like idols.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Being able to take Japanese in high school is, like, cheating.

How ya doing, buddy?

I try to hang out as much as possible with the japanese exchange students that come here every year (about 25-35 a year, a pretty decent number if you're studying Japanese since chances are high that you'll meet at least some of them). Also, my gf is japanese so that really helps, too. I've been able to keep up, and improve, my Japanese even after I stopped studying it actively.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

3) I'm sorry, but just dating a Japanese girl or watching shittons of anime just isn't going to help--best those would do for you is get your ears used to the syntax of the language spoken.

Although I can agree on the anime part not getting you very far, dating a japanese girl will actually get you more than just "used to the syntax". You'll get instant feedback on all your questions AND you'll learn new words in the progress. It's actually, and practically, one of the most effective ways to learn Japanese(or any other new language for that matter) in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Shorty

True, that is if she's helpful to your studies and you're showing effort / you're willing to learn. I'm just saying, if. There are plenty of people I know married/dating Japanese women and their wives/girlfriends (my co-workers, mostly) admit that although they are willing to teach, there's a certain glass ceiling point of the learning curve. For most men who haven't spent significant time in Japan, I find that just dating or being married to a Japanese woman isn't helping them much; it takes considerable amount of effort on the guys' part.

Originally Posted by el jacko

I'm not sure I agree. I mean, they can certainly help, simply because it's a way to practice speaking the language, but nothing is going to make you learn better than taking several years of intensive classes, combined with a year (at least) in Japan. I really can't see any other way to learn the language aside from that.

I've been taking it for four years now (though it hasn't been very intensive until the past year, while in college) and I've developed the confidence to use what I have in conversation simply because I've had to speak to my teacher every weekday since September; had I not done that I wouldn't be anywhere decent.

Hehe, you guys seem to assume that I meant that you can learn Japanese effortlessly if only you get a japanese gf. I can assure you that is NOT what I meant. Didn't I say you get instant feedback? What I meant to say was that if you're studying actively, and you have a japanese gf/bf, she/he's going to be one of the best resources you have for learning the language properly. If you live in Japan while dating this person, all the better. In fact, I wholeheartedly agree, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned this before(I assume you didn't read it) that it is absolutely crucial, in fact critical, to stay on location in Japan for a longer period of time if you wish to truly master the language.

I agree, SOLELY getting a gf will not be enough to truly learn the language. It's similar to the principals and relations between happiness and money, actually. Although it won't make you happier to have a lot of money, it sure helps. It all amounts to how you use your resources.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by iamamoogle

I took Japanese for one full year (3 quarters) my first year of college, it was very enjoyable and I would also highly recommend Genki.

I had a hard time with katakana at first, but I think its because being on the quarter system, we had just rushed though hiragana and were expected to know katakana the next week... but I've got both of those down, I've just about lost all my kanji knowledge though and my grammar and conjugation is rusty.

Reading your text brings back memories. We also used Genki (1 term) at first and naturally went over to Genki II later on (2nd term). Although I wouldn't recommend it for experienced users, and it might even be missmatched for people living outside of the US due to the content being aimed to american youths, they are quite good for beginners and gives an overall coverage of the basics of the Japanese language.

Actually, I also had a tougher time with katakana than with hiragana. This mostly due to the fact that you don't use katakana as often since it's mainly only used in foreign(and some rare cases, native) names and when dealing with vocabulary lent from other languages. Giving a real-life example of this; I was overwhelmed the first time I played Katamari Damashii in Japanese since the god(forgot his name) speaks in katakana(!), rather than hiragana/kanji, making it really hard to read if you're not used to it. Aside from these rare cases though, there was no trouble practising and I quickly caught up with it. Memories, memories...

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