So glad we defeated the Taliban!

Originally Posted by Wesker

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...095003,00.html

But apparently it didn't change things a hell of alot.

This shows the fatal flaw in the George Bush/Tony Blair philosophy of bringing democracy to the middle east. You can "liberate" these people from their various dictatorial regimes, but you can't liberate them from their own religion. This is why the Iraq experiment will fail, as will all attempts to bring democrary, a western concept, to a people with a 7th century mindset.

To begin with,it would be too naive to think that Bush/Blair are attacking countries to introduce democracy.
Their steps were fundamentlay flawed and evident,if you didnt noticed it earlier and now this petty piece of article opening your eyes,thn all i can say is
"Bravo kid".

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Wesker made this topic just to bash Islam,he is just looking for chance to bash even more ,where as Adamgian is trying to defend needlessly.

The issue is trivial,who gives a DAMN fuck to a afghani.

And this issue has ended so i dont see any point of continuing this debate.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Wesker

If American lives are being sacrificed to bring "democracy" to these Muslim nations, I'd prefer to see them act in a more civilzied fashion.

If Americans are going to stick their noses into someone else's mattersand issues etc,the people will get agrravated instead of being civilised specially the way US adopts that is, killing and destorying nation in the shroud of DEMOCRACY REVIVAL.

I ask you,if your father and mother would prefer solving problems of their "family" by themslef or they would rather suggest some stranger to come to your house and intervene in your matters(beating you if necessary).
How will you react?

Afghanistan is Fucked since long ,a guliible nation,with fucked up citizens and US is responsible for that.
Now don't even expect them to act in civilised way.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Cal

I'm not sure you're aware of this, Wesker, but people who don't live on your contiment generally severely disagree with Full Spectrum Dominance.

My take is that people like wesker are not in any mood of accepting this even if they are AWARE.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Wesker:I guraantee you that there no. of gays are more in Chriastians/Westerners than extremists in Muslims.
Going by above rule, i am not stupid to declare all chriastians=Gays.

Change your fucking attitude towards Muslims ,you are reeking of hatred even if you dont say so.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Adamgian

No, it just means Western governments are better at enforcing what they believe are proper human values and rights. The issue is relative depending on which rights you discuss.

Also, the US and the economically powerful nations have an obligation to prevent human rights abuses globally regarded as vile and reprehensible, but not one to interfere when the issue is the result of a different interpretation of the values of a nation. In particular, I reference the difference between genocide and execution for adultery, or in this case, apostacy.

The fact of the matter is, a nation has the right to chose its own laws, and the US has no right to tell them whether or not they are justified. If a majority of Afghanistan believes that he should be executed and the system of laws in Afghanistan leans towards that, then I'm afraid hes a victim of that. Curse and damn their laws all you want, I won't be hesitating, but at the same time, its simply not our decision.



No, what they display is the manner in which a nation regards respect to others. Low crime is representative of the values a nation holds dear, and if it is one of less execution and robery, that will translate into a system of laws and a judiciary that supports some of the rights the West espouses.

Look at things in the broader context and not their direct relation, or you'll be blinded by the sheer depth and complexity of these issues.



Marked for emphasis. Again, what you're saying is entirely relative, and the fact of the matter is, we turned Afghanistan into a Democracy, and it is no longer our decision as to what their laws are. If American lives were lost to bring a system you disagree with, great, just make sure the US doesn't start anymore invasions of soverign countries if the results will be less than satisfactory.

Fuck it ,man i know Islam and i know that no where its written in Islamic Principles that behead those who change thier way from Islam,infact God will takecare of those people in life hereafter.

I hate to see nations like Afghanistan having no concept of what real Islam is, yet claim their validation.Such stupid nations spoil the whole image,futher giving , guys like Wesker an "Excuse" to bash and pluck out problems in the religion even more.

When i heard the news of this man, i knew and still believe that its a conspiracy,the issue is "made" to be "heated" up.

Really, there are more Human rights issue to deal with in US herself(child pornos at large,no?) than infiltrating policies of other nations.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by lordjames

You frustrate me to no end because you have such a narrow frame of mind. The U.S. or any other country has every right to criticize the human rights practices of other countries if they are, in fact, wrong. And the fact that a law exists in a country (that has been under tyrannical rule for the last decade) that states that he should die because he subscribes to a religion outside of Islam doesn't make it right, and since Western powers are lifting this country out of its post-war ruins, we have all the leverage to enforce those human rights in Afghanistan and therefore we ultimately do have the right to make that decision.

Relativism fails by its own justification. The view that everything is relative is a relative p.o.v. and therefore cannot be regarded as truth.

US has right ,and what if US is wrong and other nation wants to criticize US?
Can they ,ofcourse they can't.
US is disliked by many countries aroud the wrold 'cause of its inhumane policies not "just" by Muslim countries and its a well known fact not a "relative" concept and you know that.

So "first" a nation herself should be wise and clean,before pointing fingers at others.

Dont fuck others if you like to fuck yourself.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon

I like how you're telling a Muslim that you know more about his religion than he does.

I have read and researched everything about Islam ,and what i know (Adamgian will also agree),is that Islam i NOT like other religions.

Accept it or leave it,the commands have to be followed in their entirety,and if not thn even if you will "call" yourself Muslim,which evry muslim does,in reality you are hypocryte not Muslim.

Its just like "you can call yourself Jew but you can only be REAL jew, if you will be born from jewish mother".Reform jews dont believe this but Orthodox ,yes.

The problem lies wihtin the religion itself and defiant parties against Islam using that for their own goals,some are even bent to wipe out Islamic beliefs,we all know that.

What Muslim normally think he does is right in the light of his religion, is actually a sin and totally wrong.

I very well accept Adamgian when he uses word complex,its indeed complex for punkass non-muslims to understand this Religion.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Adamgian

Under Islam, apostasy is considered treason, which is punishable by death. Whether or not you agree with that is a completely different issue, but that doesn't mean it isn't what is said. I for example strongly disagree with that principle, however, I won't deny that it's there, and I sure as hell won't support actions to carry it out. .

Punishable by death ,you can PM me where its written,why PM?
Because i know it will require research.
If its in Holy book,Hadis etc tell me,i am willing to accept but don't say i am not agreeing and on what grounds you are bouncing.

"I wont deny its there"

where exactly?

And do tell me, what Sect. you belong too.
Sunni,Shia,Ismaili
or sub sects of Sunnis and Shias???

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Originally Posted by Adamgian

The entire principle is based on a contentious hadith that is translated as "Whosoever changes his religion, Kill Him."

Where its written
I know there are Chapters and verses
So what chapter no. and verse no.?
I dont believe in heresay,you have to be authentic when claiming such thing.

Why i asked sect. 'cause,Sunnis and Shias have different Hadis.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by Wesker

Yeah!..those punk ass non-Muslims are a bunch of morons! Only butch tough assed Muslims can understand anything.

Yeah rite,so try to become the later ones.

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Yeah don't "look harder" ,and advice others to "assume" that its written that way(thats where most muslims falter).

Islam isn't about assumption.

Jam it back in, in the dark.