PLAY!/Eminence Split Thread

I personally think Seraph is allowed to post his/her opinion on this ordeal, Mr. Maul.After reading his/her posts, I lost alot of desire to see Play! concerts. If they don't care about the music, then what is the point? If the composers aren't happy, then the fans can't be happy.

When I went to VGL and heard MGS being played, it was awesome, the arrangement was so cinematic, it gave me hope and excitment that VG music can be take seriously like film music does. The Play! version was rather pathetic by comparison. And hearing how disrespectful they are has shown their true colors, if it came from the composer's mouth, wouldn't we rather side with them than with the producers who flash their fake smiles and promote their mediocrly arranged concerts to get money?

Seraph is posting because of what he/she believes in VGM, and while its natural he/she will want to promote his/her concert in better light, the fact remains that the composers were not happy, and neither should fans who go to these concerts. He/she is speaking in behalf of himself/herself, not for the concert, so why should he have to make the posts sound neutral or professional? This is a forum, not the concert's website. He only mentions his concerts to prove that he does have contact with the insiders of VGM concerts. Other than that, anything he posts its his opinions, which he is free to express as long as he's not flaming others.

There's a difference between spamming and stating one's opinion.

its a pity I lost my desire to go see Play!, they do have licence to alot of hot titles now... But if they can't keep the artistic integrity, than its not worth the trip or money.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I doubt any of the composers can say anything in public without offending Play!, when they probably wanna at leasy keep their relationships pleasant. No one can really tell the truth without having the producers shut them up or use other means to silence them. At least Seraph here is trying to spread the truth.

Perhaps he shouldn't have gotten to personal with he critisim, but I think its at least brave of him to post the truth, even if it means he will receive backlash for the way he posted. But don't we all have personal harsh opinions on others, and how they do things? If Jason has screwed around with people or other concerts like VGL through less ethical means, its kinda hard NOT to get personal.

Some restraint should be added, but I think getting the message out is more important right now, after all, how the hell can the composers tell us that they felt Play! screw them over, when the game developing companies probably support them? They chose their professionalism over telling the truth, while Seraph is doing the opposite. Personally to me that's quite admirable.

And do we know whether or not the composers ask for their opinions to be a secret? Maybe freelancers want people to know what happened.

I mean Seraph told me through PM how the composers were treated:

Quote:

The composers were invited but were not paid the airfare for their concerts in the US! This is unheard of, even a small money losing company like us pays for trips to Australia, usually business class with the best hotel in town. PLAY! only prepared hotel, not only that, they DO NOT pay for the composer any kind of fee, although Jason made all the composers stay for a 5 hour autographing session. Remember, Jason CHARGES PEOPLE for shaking hands with the composers. The composers DO NOT get paid...

If Jason and Arnie did bad crap like that, it should be known, so someone can fix it. And I'd be pissed if I was treated like that. Seraph simply posted his opinions and nothing more. We all have our ways to express and speak, let Seraph do it his own way, at least when he targeted Jason he kinda deserved it. He speaking for himself on how he feels about Play! as a VGM concert. I don't see why he needs to act professional just cause he happens to have a concert of his own. He's not even a producer, he's the concert master and performer, and they do have rights to express their thoughts.He's not some shady producer who wants to badmouth others so he can get more sales, he's a performer who has heard of the dark side of the production of the concerts and wants to voice his views on it.

If what the above quote says is true, than Jason is being unprofessional .I think thats far worse than someone who happens to be in a concert series posting what he thinks. My violin teacher is the vice concert master in his orchestra, and he has opinions on everything, and its not like his producers or agents can tell him to shut up, the only professional concern is his performance, and judging from Seraph's position and job, thats his only concern in the profession as well. If they're not gonna fire him for "spreading gossip", why should we get all upset when he posts his personal views on a forum?

All I'm saying is that unless Seraph really gets out of hand, I dont see why we need to tell him to quit it. Perhaps a solution is for him to tell the FULL STORY in one post, and then not mention again in the future unless something new occurs, so we can know the truth without him reposting the same issues again, since that seems to be one of your major concerns with this. Other than that, there's no need to overeact to someone's valid negative opinion on other producers in other concerts.

Oh, one question, where did he badmouth Arnie Roth exactly? I don't recall his name mentioned in previous posts, only in my PM from him. What is this Blog you speak of from your previous posts and whats the url? Maybe if I read it then I'll know what you meant when you said he made alot of offensive comments, when I haven't seen any extreme ones here on this topic.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well I think Play! should at least fix certain problems that Seraph here has raised, I believe it is MOST of the Japanese composers who had bad treatment and experiences when asked to appear in Play!, not a few.

This tour may satisfy alot of fans, but at what cost? If Jason has indeed used deciet to gain all this, shouldn't it be known? If Jason is able to screw people at VGL, they certainly can do whatever they want with Eminence, I doubt its due to Eminience unprofessionalism that lead Jason's refusal, thanks to what I heard from his track record. And I still doubt fans will be happy if the composers aren't treated with respect, maybe not to the point of not going to one of the concerts, but in a long run it will have consequences, and will affect Play!'s image. How can we make sure VGM is known to more people if the peopl who work on them don't even take it seriously? Eminence has people who love VGM working on it, Play! has a bunch of professionals who don't give a damn it seems. VGM should be spread by people who care, not to make a quick buck.

And poor arrangements can lead to giving people bad impressions on VGM. It seems that Play!'s program tends to go up and down interms of arragement quality, the VGL one I went to was 9/10 for almost the whole show.

I don't see how someone like Seraph, who has spoken with alot of Japanese composers can be considered unprofessional, if he is one, than why do they allow him to use the music? It IS a possible scenario that Jason pulled a coprate monster thing, dicked him over and now Seraph isn't happy with it, and wanted others to know as a warning. A guy who has made further concert plans with more big name Japanese composers can't possible be a horrible, unprofessional childish man that you called him as.

And I doubt it was Seraph's intention to do a charade to make Eminence look better. He just points out things that Play! have done that wasn't respectful that they can greatly improve on. I think this all stemed from misinterpretation from what he posts. I FULLY understood what you said Mr.Maul, I just don't think that was Seraph's intentions at all. He like you, wants VGM to be known to more people, his concerts barely get much profit and money was never the intention. Dunno about Play! though...

BTW, you still haven't shown me this blog you accused him of. He hasn't insulted anyone in this thread as far as I know. Maybe in the PMs, but thats the point of PMs, you say things you won't say in public.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Maul Square owns the rights to all FMVs and images, No a SINGLE Square image was used in VGL BECAUSE Square didnt let them. And PLAY! doesn't have access to it either, at least not FF, how they managed to get KH baffles me, but thye sure didn't get FF, so that image of Rinoa off their site is illegal and false advertising. If they can't get their site together properly, how do we trust the rest of their management?

And the deciet I mention is something Seraph mentioned breifly in one of his PMs to me, said it was a long story. Whatever it is, Im sure it isn't professional or ethical from Jason. And I do believe that Seraph does have contacts to Jason and Play! If Jason found ways to bypass, it was probably unethical means, be it personal contacts or some sort of bribery.

Seraph may lack experience and may have flaunted to us what the composers have said, but he didn't publicly posted it, the others did. I mean, we all gossip, and if we have things we wanna say but can't mention names in public, its kind natural to say in private messages, I'm not sayng what he did was a good thing, but he certainly didn't flaunt it in public, just mention to each of us indiviually. And unless we have proof that the composers want it to be top secret, I don't see a major issue there. Again, I'm not saying it was right, it just wasn't as horrible as people seem to think. And if the composers do have a problem, well whats done is done, and Seraph will learn to keep certain things private.

Yes Seraph needs to be a bit more professional in certain aspects, I just dont think harsh critisim was needed to get that message across. Not to mention you could have easily turn some of your previous posts into PMs and send it to him.Like another poster said here, there's a lack of sentiment. Not everyone's born as a professional, but at least Seraph here respects the composers. The lack of trust thing isn't any issue unless the composers didn't want anyone to find out at all, which is doubtful to me personally, cause if it gets out, then Play! will have to fix themselves up or else their image and rep will fall. I think its more likely that Play! will wanna keep things quiet than the composers who were disrepsected.

Just be a little more sentimental and less patronising to him, thats the reason why there seems to be conflict around this topic, next time be a little more fair and check the facts before posting, (I doubt Wiki is the best source,since ANYONE can edit the content.) There has been misunderstandings, so we should all aplologize for that at least. Seraph's a nice guy, he just needs to gain some more experience, something we all need in any profession, we don't get it right at the start, give him a chance and time.

I'm sure Play! is a great fun event for gamers, I just don't think they're sincere or even care, and why should fans pay for such insincerity? I think its a good thing that Seraph has told us the bad aspects of Behind the Scenes, even though he should have kept some aspects private. But hey, we all make mistakes and we LEARN from them, no need to go all lectuerer and harsh on him. If you feel yo got yoru money's worth from Play! , awesome, but some of us rather support a concert that actually gives a damn and not a coprate mindset bend on making money.

Anyways, we should probably get back on topic, since most of us had our say already.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Just wanna say to Tommy that I thank him for his responses, I wanted to talk to you at the VGL LA Hollywood Bowl meet and greet, but I got shy...

And as someone who has gone to VGL, I can clairify that the majoirity of the show was symphonic, with some rock and synth thrown in there, but at least 85% symphonic.

Also a little note that it is very possible to creat a MGS symphonica arrangement with no synths or electronics, and still be better than Play!'s version. Starting the theme with just strings is like listening to some string quartet piece for a while and its NOT a good way to start a theme like MGS. I;m no arranger, but I listen to enough VGM remixes and other music to know what not to do with certain themes. If Play! had actually did a better job with the arrangments, Ill probnably go despite the dark stuff going behind the curtains. They didn't and that lack of either talent or actual effort proves that its not worht my money or time.

And the way they butchered KH1 and 2 suite? Dear god, they barely did any work, and the cut and past job with March Caprice inserted in the middle was awful, as a huge fan of KH this pisses me off.And Swing De Chocobo is an extended version of the FFX chocobo theme. Original arrangement my foot. The only reason people will go its if they don't get other concerts like VLG there, or they're desperate to hear a live version of their favourite game pieces, which means Play! still has plenty of market sadly. Not to mention they have a trump card called "Square Enix". And we all know how many FF fanboys there are.

Its sad to hear the deciet that went on at Play!, despite temptations to see it (They DO have alot of licence to alot of franchise, my boyfriend was little disappointed when VGL changed the program and Castlevania was cut, and my god if I had heard Akira played SH2...), I rather not support it, and since my boyfriend and his friends, as well as I, are trying to get into the game industry, we at least know what to stay clear of now.

How ya doing, buddy?

Ah I see, well I doubt we can go to the Brazil ones, maybe the one next time that's in LA will have Castlevania again, or perhaps in a city that close to LA. He also loved the Beyond Good and Evil game, so he was little bummed that it was shifted around as well. But we love the rest of the show, and ending it with Halo 3 with the original composers and guitar performer and the voice of Cortana was awesome. I'm not a Halo fan and even I got a kick out of it.

And having David Hayter introducing the concert was genius. Advantages of a VG show in LA huh?

Thanks for replying!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?