Dealbreakers

The ultimate dealbreaker for me is when the women I go on a first date with expects me to pay for dinner simply because, “I am the man.” I hate this, a lot.

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Don’t get me wrong, it’s not the idea of paying for a date I don’t like. It’s the attitude of the female in this scenario. The way I see it, if I barely know a person, why the hell should I be required to pay their expenses? If a female agrees to go on a date with me, I’m going to go out on a limb and assume that she wants to get to know me. As far as I’m concerned, unless there’s already some type of history between us where we willingly do things for one another, a woman expecting me to pay for the entire first date is roughly the equivalently of me expecting them to give me head on the first date

We’re not even on that “level” yet.

One time I went on a date and the waitress asked us, should I split the bill? And I said "of course." Then the bitch gave me this look. Never bothered talking to her again.

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I'm so glad that I repulse you Alice.

But for the hell of things, what if you asked some guy out to dinner? And yes, I've had girls do this before.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

So you basically think the initiator of the date is responsible for the bill?

Then, what happens when there’s no clear cut initiator? More than often, when I end up on a date with a girl, it's not a clear cut "hey can I take you out" kinda deal. More of mutual agreement that we should get to know each other better. Also, what’s so ‘progressive’ about expecting someone – that you barely know – to handle their own weight? I’d replace progressive thinking with flat out common sense, but I might be retarded.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

You do realize that traditionally men have paid for dates, right? I believe this practice originated back when men were pretty much always the breadwinners, but it's still something that a lot of the more traditional women expect. I'm of the opinion that whoever asks the other person out is responsible for paying the bill. If there's any uncertainty at all about who did the asking, I think the man should step up and pay. It's just good manners. And just because you didn't technically "ask" someone out, doesn't mean that you weren't the pursuer.

Keep in mind that I'm only talking about the first few dates. In an established relationship where both people have jobs, I don't think it's fair that one person has to always pay for everything.

You do realize that it was also 'tradition' for women to submit to and obey men, don't you? It was also 'tradition' and 'good manner' for us black folk to not even think about touching a white women. You don't just go and fucking keep the stuff that benefits you when they don't make any damn sense.

My problem is with the utter lack of any reasoning, not paying for something.

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Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

There's no point in either of us trying to change the other's mind. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not here to change how you see things. I’m just pointing out how mine actually makes sense while yours do not.

Originally Posted by kat

Personally I think it's good manners for men to pay for the first couple dates, I was taught its the mark of a good gentleman.

Since Alice won't/can’t, can you enlighten me on why its good manners? I can’t seem to figure it out.

At least outside of "I just want things to be like that logic." Which I find sickening.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Alice, if you can read, you would realize that I don't understand the WHY DO THEY BELIEVE THAT part of the traditional women. “Because it’s tradition” is not reasoning, or should I say, it’s very very bad reasoning. But I guess I just have to accept that some people don't incorporate reasoning into their beliefs.

Kat, let’s assume for hypothetical purposes that you go on a date with a guy like me. Remember, money isn’t my issue at all; it’s more so a personality conflict that’s my problem. IE, avoiding women like Alice.

And no Alice, I don’t mean that in a disrespectful way. Let’s get real here though.

Does the idea that the guy doesn’t want to pay for the first date has any realistic connection to his ability to provide for his potential family in this instance?

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by kat

In the context of first dates, it is "fair" to go dutch on a date but I don't think relationships are necessarily about what's fair and what's not fair. It's always a give and take, and I want to make sure that the man is willing to GIVE as well as TAKE. The question isn't of his ability to provide for any potential circumstance but more his willingness to. I hate to say it this way but I want to make sure that he has his priorities straight. You can have money and the ability to give your family everything you can, but if you don't have the heart for it, then there's no point.

That's why this isn't about dating a rich guy and knowing if he's rich on the first date and having him treat me out on a lavish dinner, but if you're dating a good, decent guy who is there for you and wants to take care of you, even if it's giving you the bigger half of the cookie. Because that's what you do when you like a person, possibly even love. Most women want the comfort of knowing that they come first for a guy. A way to verify it is if he pays for the first date, he shows you that you're important and you're special and that he sees you differently from every other girl he knows.

That's my take on it. I've had guys not pay for me and it's not the end of the world. Although ironically, I never got into a relationship with any of them. So I figure, hypothetical you and I would never make it.

That’s fine and I can perfectly identify with your train of reasoning here. However, I think the fatal flaw in this reasoning is that, considering the context of the date is “we barely know each other,” do you really think a guy’s wiliness to pay for a date is the equivalent of his willingness to give, specifically to you? Do you not see the compromise of sincerity here, considering the guy barely knows you?

I think you should put yourself in a male’s point of view to understand this better. As a guy, you come across so many females who simply expect you two behave this way that eventually it simply becomes protocol. Thus, the genuineness is destroyed. After you go through this, so much, it doesn’t become a matter of “I care about this girl I want to do something for her.” It simply becomes a routine of the game. With your male vision in tact, keep in mind that this gets so bad for some men that they would rather just pay a hooker, hurry up and get their dick sucked, and not be bothered with all the other crap.

Point being, as a guy who has been through the whole dating game time after again, how much money I’m willing to spend on you – when I barely even know you – is completely separated from my care for you as a person. This is why I told myself I’m not doing that shit anymore. It’s only genuine when I want to pay. Not when I feel like I’m coerced into following proper protocol because the chic is going to dealbreak otherwise. And let’s face it; rarely do I click with someone so instantly on the first date that I earnestly want to start giving them stuff. Personally, I think only the inexperienced do.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?