Gal Pal problems.

Sounds like you suffer from typical nice guy syndrome to me. I’d walk away and let them handle their own shit. The more you deal with shit like this, the more bitter and psychotic you get. Find another chick to replace her.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Okay, I’m going to give more detailed advice and try to relate to the nice guys way of thinking again, then.

Aequitas, your problem is simple. It only seems hard to you because you’re in it, and thus – whether you’re consciously are aware of it or not – you analysis, or more so your ability to take action, is affected by your emotional connection.

Lemma: You like girl.

Delima: If anything happens between girl you like, you might lose friend(s).

The first choice of action is obvious, its Friend(s) vs Possible Girlfriend/FWB. You ultimately have to decide what you want the most and deal with the consequences of doing so. Nobody but you can tell which one it’s best to go with. However, know that no matter what you do, even if you do walk away, there will be consequences to deal with. You just need to stop thinking about it and actually take action. Thinking about it over and over again will make you go crazy. If not with this particular scenario, then some time in the future with another one. There are people that have been there done that already enough to know, and I’m one of them.

If you let them deal with it on their own:
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You might feel like a heartless bastard at first, but that’ll go away eventually. Actually, they’ll probably increase proportionately to you being the consoler. You can still be friends with them but avoiding playing the counselor role. Or at least, balance the counselor role. Your needs are important too. How often does the female friend genuinely help you out, emotionally? I’m assuming an appropriate balance doesn’t exist, because if it did, you telling her how you feel wouldn’t be an issue. Regardless if she was taken or not, it probably would have came out by now unless this just started happening. Ultimately though, find other girls and explore with them.

If you pick playing counselor: (what you’re doing now)
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Your feelings for girl probably won’t go away. You might manage to suppress them, but that’s going to lead you down the path of bitter hate that eventually 99% of all nice guys get too. You need to stop supplicating to her emotional stupidity. I’m not going to get into breaking down the psychology here. But I seriously advise you to read the following link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy_syndrome

Read the links on the “Essay” part as well. Don’t get in denial and view the information in a scientific manner while sequentially attempting to debunk its basis while at it. The point is to show that there’s hundreds and thousands of guys that go through this shit and it’s mostly rooted in insecurity complexes among all parties.

If you continue to do this, and you get emotional enough, you probably will do something incredibly stupid because of it and risk loosing them both as friends anyway. Whatever happens, know that suppressing your feelings will, eventually, blow up in your face. Either get over her properly (find happiness somewhere else) or go for her:

If you pick going for the Girl
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Know that while you are jeopardizing your friendship with the guy, emotions are not constant. They change, a lot. It’s possible that the guy might be mad, only at first. It might be possible that their relationship might be at a point where they already know it’s about to go to hell, and he just kind of accepts it. You just have to deal with the fact that you can’t possibly think of or predict every possible variable and thus must take a risk. Your focus shouldn’t be avoiding risk, but dealing with them as they happen.

In all honestly, I think it’s highly unlikely that the girl is going to regard you in a romantic manner considering all the blatant warning signs. However, if you’re at this point, you need to take action and test that. Do not communicated with words, communicate with actions. IE, don’t try to rationally explain to the chic: “hey I like you.” This only works when the female holds you in a very high romantic regard to the point where what you do doesn’t really matter anymore. If this was the case, you would know it by now, trust me. Instead, test your water with her. You need to escalate physical contact and judge how receptive she is with it. A rough idea of escalating physical contact would be:

In order from ‘harmless’ to ‘I want you’

- Greeting them with physical contact, like an arm hug (bodies don’t meet)
- A joke that somehow integrates touching them lightly
- A playful/witty mannerism that involves higher physical contact like rubbing
- Light tickling/poking
- Greeting with hug (involves close and direct body contact)
- Heavy ticking/grabbing
- Joking that involves suggestive contact
- Suggestive ticking/grabbling

A flashing green light would be her trying to provoke you to do any of it. A green light would be her playing along with you. A yellow light would be getting irritated, or avoiding it. A red light would be freezing up, jumping.

If you can get to the suggestive part, get her alone somehow, preferably emotional, and just kiss her. If she goes with it, stop eventually then rationalize the kiss with her and the friend later. If she pulls back, then it’s time to explain that you having feelings. Remember that if a person is at the point where they willingly want to cheat in a relationship, that’s not your fault, but is the fault of a rocky relationship to begin with. If dealt with maturely, sometimes it’s ultimately for the best. If the guys is really your good friend, though understandably pissed, he should eventually be able to put himself in your shoes and see what why you did what you did. It’s called forgiveness.

Out of all of this, the most important thing is that you need to take some type of action. Although it seems backwards, when dealing with emotions, a lot of the time what you do isn’t nearly as important as the fact that you actually do it. Stop trying to avoid making mistakes and learn to deal with them when they happen.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by LeHah

Look don't even bother telling her you like her. She knows it - she's just stringing you along because she knows you don't have it in you to just grab her hand and put it on your trouser snake. See, because you're such a nice guy - you won't try something stupid like kiss her or masturbate using her panties.

She's doing this because she's deranged like her boyfriend, just in a more subtle way.

Women are shit. Holla.

Probably the truth here. Considering your age she might still be somewhat naive and not really be aware of how she’s going to manipulate you get what she wants. (One day you’ll actually see just how much typical females do this crap) But the point is that, like most young ignorant females, she knows you’re going to deal with any stupid emotional crap she throws at you. You’re her safety net. Instead of improving herself, her quality, her situations, she’s probably just going to fall back on her safety net. In other words, she's going to use you, her emotion whore.

Also, what you want to do is referred to by this as a ladder jump. Whether or not you agree with the site is irrelevant. The idea here is that you’re trying to jump from the friend zone to romantic interest. The only way you even have a remote chance of this working is if you take charge and do something to entice sexual interest that she never associate you with doing. Also, this definately will cause the most drama between everybody. Probably so much so that you don't have the experience to deal with. The good part, though, is that you'll probably get a lot of experience from shaking things up like this. Just dont' be dumb and start shit simply for the sake of doing it.

The only way I’d take this route personally is if I there’s was just this special connection there with her unlike anything I have not only experienced, but know damn well that I’ll only find once in a blue moon.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Aequitas

How will I be able to tell if she does show an interest in me / flirts with me?

Make a move, pretty much.

I'm not saying that you should make a move at this point, but the advice is in this thread is horrible. It's a one way ticket to the friend zone and blue balls land. You need to establish that you are a sexual being and that you want her. Don't be all dramatic with it either. You can still let her know that you understand her situation and identify with giving her some space and the whole ordeal with your old friend. But still, this shit has to get it out in the open. If you don't, and she's even remotely attractive, some other fuck off will.

Tell her what you're telling us. Just don't do it in a "OMG I LOVE YOU SO MUCH" manner. Rather, do it in a "Hey, I think something could happen between us, what do you think?" manner.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I actually agree Sass.

But the fact of the matter is that the typical girl - especially around his age - have two very different connotations to friendships and relationships. He's going about it like the typical nice guy and as such, will probably end up getting the kiss of death ("I just want to be friends") just like the typical nice guy. You DO NOT want this. It it gives you false hope and make you grow tired and hateful.

Therefore, as a guy since we have to deal with this shit, it's best to establish romantic interest first and make friends later.

I was speaking idiomatically.

True, but remember that romantic interest is not binary. In otherwords, it's not like it's an on or off state. It's analog. It varies, a lot. The only way she's going to come on to him is if the interest was SO high, and frequent, that she can't take holding it in anymore. There may be a low (even to the point where it's not really conscious yet) level of romantic interest that's there with the girl. However, he has to invoke this romantic interest by some means. Otherwise, even if it's there, she's going to pass him off as not liking her 'like that.' Some other guy is going to come along, and the cycle of him being the her emotional whore to the other guy is going to repeat.

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Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Ahahhahahahhahahaha, do you have a girlfriend, you fucking nerd.

(No. I really liked the metaphor. GEEK. ^_^ )

I'm a computer science dork, so I couldn't help. :P And just for the sake of saying it, no I'm not in a relationship. More like, I fool around with random chics that I happen to come across.

Quote:

Whats your reasoning, here??

I admit not all girls are unwilling to express interest, directly (no stupid ambigious signals), to somebody they like. But most girls keep it in and just sit around waiting for the guy to make a move, especially when they're young and immature. So, unless the girl is just SO infatuated with the guy, she's probably going to chicken out and not say anything.

Quote:

I would think spending plenty of time doing some rather ambiguous "friendlike slash date like" activities together would open a door to these kinds of feelings, yes.

The dilemma of every nice guy out there.

I thought like this once too. But after ending up in the friend zone with friendships that seemed so perfect for a relationship, I sat down and rethought my position. So basically I just stop giving a damn about females feelings or forming bonds with them (initially) and just did/said whatever I wanted. Sure enough, it got to the point where some girls started having secret crushes and got all giggly and shit over me. I have some theories on why this happens. But as a guy, after a while you just start to accept that being sexually enticing has to come first.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

Ah, jaded. I SEE. But you know this guy isn't like you - nor as experienced, I imagine, so why advise him like he was your peer, you know?

He’s not that much (physically) younger than me. I just happen to have a lot of experience. I admit I’m biased, I’m advising him this way because his scenario is extremely archetypal. It’d be different if it was more unique. But tons of guys go through this same exact issue. That’s why they’re sites, books, movies and god knows what else about it.

Originally Posted by Aequitas

When she had a crush on her latest (now ex) bf, she told me (in retrospect) that she was soo nervous about confronting him about it but after two weeks she built up the guts to ask him to the movies. So she seems to be the type that if she likes someone, she is willing to make a move.

Not so fast there buddy. Of course it’s possible that she might be the type. But there’s a big difference between telling somebody you have romantic feelings towards them and just asking them to the movies. It’s not nearly as heavy and thus easier to bring yourself to do. After all, some people actually just want to hang out.

Quote:

And SMX, How would you suggest I make it known that I am attracted to her like that? (I am probably going to wait a few weeks (4-6) before attempting anything, if at all. Depending on her current situation with the as---I mean ex.

Hmmmm…usually when I want to get physical with a girl, I just test the water before hand. I usually don’t have to really say anything till were done making out or whatever because at some point of time the “I want you part” gets so obvious that saying it isn’t even necessary. Just judge her responds to your (non verbal) advances and see what you can get away with. Something you should look for:

Can you maintain eye contact without her looking away?
Can you get right up next to her without her acting oddly?
Can you even touch her without her freezing up?
Can you (playfully) grab/hold/contain her?

Basically try these out. If the light is green you’ll probably know it because she’ll probably provoke you into fucking with her. Although I should give you far warning that it’s never FULL proof, ever. One time I had a ‘friend’ in my bed and pinned down with me on top of her. She kept saying “I bet you can’t find where I’m ticklish at.” So after trying for a minute I went under her bra going at it. She didn’t do a damn thing about it, but giggle. When I got around to asking her out, she STILL put me in the friend zone.

So, I guess the best answer would really depend on the type of person she is. If she’s more reserved, level with her one on one. If she’s more on the wild side, make a move on her. Whatever you do though, don’t be dramatic with it. Though honestly, I really don’t think she’s going to go for it. If you got the hots for her that bad though, I guess you might as well try so you can confirm it though.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?