Holy cow: was anyone aware of Square's iron policy on copyright?

I was pretty impressed with how fast they responded, at least:

Originally Posted by Me

Greetings,
I am a music student in the Midwest currently enrolled in a music arranging class. One of my upcoming tasks is to take an existing piece of music and arrange it for a small woodwind ensemble. I am interested in taking Nobuo Uematsu's title motif from Final Fantasy II and using it for this purpose.

There will be a small performance of the final product, but within a classroom setting. After this there will be no further use of the music. I am writing for permission to use Final Fantasy II's melody for this purpose.
Thank you for your consideration.

Originally Posted by Their response

All content of our games is copyright SQUARE ENIX Co., Ltd. We regret to inform you that we do not grant permission to individuals to use any copyrighted content. Because we receive numerous requests, our policy is to decline any use of our copyrights. We currently are not granting permission to any one except our own business partners.

Well? Is that way too ridiculous or is that fair for a company such as Square-Enix? I mean they certainly have every right to deny me, but given the context of the request I personally think it's a little harsh. I kind of figured I'd get this kind of response going in, but it couldn't hurt to try. Does anyone know: are all entertainment companies like this? I have not written for permission from anyone else so I wouldn't know.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Fuck em, just do it.

Like anyone would actually know/care/be upset that it's from FFII and you didn't get permission?

I'm sure your response was just a standard automated message that they send out to everyone who asks about using their intellectual property. I mean, they don't shut down sites like OCRemix or VGMix.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I'd love to know the explanation behind the tons of Final Fantasy doujin music that is being sold in comikets and doujin shops every year in Japan. =/

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by JazzFlight

Fuck em, just do it.

Like anyone would actually know/care/be upset that it's from FFII and you didn't get permission?

My thoughts exactly but unfortunately part of the criteria for the project is to prove that we've gotten permission, if a copyright still exists for the piece.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Cellius

My thoughts exactly but unfortunately part of the criteria for the project is to prove that we've gotten permission, if a copyright still exists for the piece.

So edit the email and print it off?

I was speaking idiomatically.

As far as I know (In Canada atleast), you are free to perform copyrighted music so long as you are not charging money. Just do it.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Fuck.
Them.
Period.

Just do it. If someone from SE is there, complaining, just say "OSHI~ Coincidences :'D What is this final fantasy you speak of."

FELIPE NO

Forget Final Fantasy. Find a song from a game (series) that hasn't been arranged to death already. Also, this way you don't have to worry about S-E.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Kaleb.G

Find a song from a game (series) that hasn't been arranged to death already. Also, this way you don't have to worry about S-E.

Since you are arranging for a woodwind ensemble, you should tackle Lost Planet (Trigun) by Tsuneo Imahori. It calls for an oboe, two clarinets, a flute, and a bassoon.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Just perform it.

US and Australian Performing Rights Association cannot be stopped by square in terms of perfomance ^^

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Seraph: Cool to see another Aussie here

What's this Performing Rights Association you speak of?



Cellius: As a business law student, I'm a little well-versed in copyright and IP laws. because no such precedent case exists, I don't actually think it's proven that a game company can sue you for taking an original piece of game music and tweaking it. The Australian laws use phrase such as 'substantially similar' when talking about whether a work infringes or not, whcih leads me to hope the idiocy of laws like Australia's Copyright Act or even worse, the USA's DMCA, can be overcome by some common sense.

I've never understood the notion of being sued for enhancing/working with game music and not profiting off of it, or even stopping the company itself profit off it by releasing it as free. It's absolute madness, and shows how out of touch lawmakers are in our society.


Which brings me to the more obvious points- no matter how 'legally right' or even legally hopeful you or I might be, we don't have the resources a company like SquareEnix does.

And to be honest, under the relevant US laws (the DMCA) I think it's in all likelihood, copyright infringement. <shrugs> But I haven't lost sleep over that yet


As for your teacher, are they likely to contact SquareEnix and ask if you got permission? Sounds to me more like an 'honour system' where they simply put the onus on you, but never actually follow it up. Kind of like University/college assignment plagiarism checks.


At any rate, it's no 'iron policy'. It's actually a default policy of most organisations. You'd be horrified at some of the more stupid examples (I have a couple for you), SquareEnix looks tame in comparison with the email they sent you.

Regards,
- Spike

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Look at APRA.com.au

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Here's what to remember:

"Because we receive numerous requests, our policy is to decline any use of our copyrights."

As said by others, they don't have the time to actually THINK for a moment that it won't hurt them. IT's more of a "Let's see, we could spend ten minutes for a short discussion or 10 seconds with the standard response. Hmmm, 20 other e-mails huh? Response it is! Neeeeeext!"

I was speaking idiomatically.

I think it's more a "officially deny authorisation just in case ..." thing. They won't actually hunt you if you don't make profit with it or anything.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Well, also they can't prove it, since it's not like VGM sharing or anything where he's reproducing the work in any tangible form. So, that's not the issue here. But I can understand the problem with the teacher. But as I said, sounds unlikely that they'd check up either.

- Spike

How ya doing, buddy?

Yeah, I wanna say "fuck 'em, just do it" too.

But since the criteria is that you need permission, and as Kaleb.G said, you should be able to find something outside of Final Fantasy and Squenix. Plus it'd be interesting to see how other companies are with granting such permissions, at least at that level of simple e-mail (?) request.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Spikey

You'd be horrified at some of the more stupid examples (I have a couple for you), SquareEnix looks tame in comparison with the email they sent you.

I'd be interested in seeing some of these examples if you have them on hand.

I'm not especially keen on writing to other gaming companies. The project's due soon anyway and I can default to a classical piece that has no copyright. I think that these corporations' fascist policies on fair use contribute to the piracy, if only out of spite. Kind of a shame.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well, I've heard original FF8 and Xenogears music being used blatently in some old Taiwanese and Hong Kong drama serials. I really doubt the producers got permission from the then Square for permission (because they probably would have been rejected). As of today, I haven't heard any news in the papers about the drama serial producers getting into trouble.

On another note, there was this one time I did a very amateurish arrangement of an FF song for a project. Actually, it was an arrangement of some else's arrangement. My lecturer had no qualms at all since I wasn't in any danger of selling it for profit or something. And no, I didn't write to Square.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Elorin

Well, I've heard original FF8 and Xenogears music being used blatently in some old Taiwanese and Hong Kong drama serials.

Wow, in fucking series now? They sure got no shame ...

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by niki

I'd love to know the explanation behind the tons of Final Fantasy doujin music that is being sold in comikets and doujin shops every year in Japan. =/

Companies in Japan has loose policy regarding this doujin-culture, they allow the artists to make minor profit and produce spinoff fanproduction to encourage the birth of new professionals and also helping make their franchise more popular.

Tt seems the Square Enix has different policy overseas, considering One Ups must pay license for their albums while there are tons of unlicensed, arranged SE albums in the japanese doujin markets (and the japanese websites. Type site:jp "mp3" "Final fantasy" and you will produce a lot of japanese music doujin groups).

But well, perhaps if Cellius lived in Japan, the story would have been much different. Squere Enix in USA seems has different perception of managing their artist's copyright with the Headquarter in Japan. Perhaps you should have sent email to Square Enix in Japan instead the one in the States!

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by niki

They sure got no shame ...

I think the Xenogears songs were "Light from the Netherworld" and short catches of the Blackmoon Forest theme for the Taiwanese period serial. The Hong Kong serial (about modern day vampires) used FF8's "Fithos Lusec Wecos Vinosec" almost everytime this villainess with big hair appeared. It was very hilarious. I think "Succession of Witches" was used in some spots as well for variation but my memory's a bit foggy.

And yes, I have some problem understanding double standards in Japan and the rest of the world with respects to VGM fan arrangements for profit or otherwise.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Elorin

Well, I've heard original FF8 and Xenogears music being used blatently in some old Taiwanese and Hong Kong drama serials. I really doubt the producers got permission from the then Square for permission (because they probably would have been rejected). As of today, I haven't heard any news in the papers about the drama serial producers getting into trouble.

Ohh someone who has seen what Ive seen! The Taiwan drama called Justice Bao ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judge_Bao ) used alot of music from Resident Evil 2, like Ada's theme and the RPD police hall theme. Liber Fatali was used in a HK drama called "My date with a Vampire 2", which I believe is what you were refering to. Alot of anime music was used in the past as well, and FFX's Chocobo theme was used in a Jockey horse racing commericial for the Jockey cable channel 18 in Hong Kong.

I have never heard of Xenogears being used though, what show was that, or what scene was it played on?

The reason they do this? Simple, an average veiwer is not gonna regonise the music, only the gamers will, and I know alot of guy gamers in HK may regonise some FF music, but probably won't notice or bother with it too much. HK TV producers know they can get away with it cause its not that well known, and probably through some copyright loopholes as well. The only time such people were caught was a Taiwan recording company that used the theme song from the game "Air" and put it in some new hot shot singer's album as a piano track.

Fans send letters to the Company Key who made the game and they got in trouble, all CDs were recalled.

If it keeps happening, Im sure fans will start sending letters to tell them to knock it off. But a music CD probably has more evidence than a TV show, unless people bothered taping it.

I made a topic on this subject, we could try to carry it on there, any other VGM you heard from the Taiwan or HK shows?

http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/ge...ia-events.html

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Square has no right to deny you this. See § 110 of Title 17 (U.S. Copyright Law):

Quote:

Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, the following are not infringements of copyright:

(1) performance or display of a work by instructors or pupils in the course of face-to-face teaching activities of a nonprofit educational institution, in a classroom or similar place devoted to instruction, unless, in the case of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, the performance, or the display of individual images, is given by means of a copy that was not lawfully made under this title, and that the person responsible for the performance knew or had reason to believe was not lawfully made;

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by ElectricSheep

Square has no right to deny you this. See § 110 of Title 17 (U.S. Copyright Law):

Fuck these bastards. Just to see how they'd respond, I decided to reply to their email with the information in ElectricSheep's post (among other things supporting fair use):

Quote:

I am disheartened and annoyed at your refusal to grant me permission to use this musical excerpt for educational purpose. Please refer to blah blah blah; etc... I expect a personalized response from one of you at Square-Enix addressing this issue. If you still refuse to grant permission for this not-for-profit and private study, then I would appreciate an explanation for this obvious neglect of fair use policy.

To which they immediately replied with the exact same message as before, but with a curt sentence at the end:

Originally Posted by Nazis

This is the final response and final answer to this issue.

I have a feeling I won't be paying for anything with the S-E logo on it anymore.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Heh, I really wonder if it is the final response and answer to the question.

Jam it back in, in the dark.