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[General Discussion] Top Down Shooters: A Lost Gaming Art Form
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Elixir
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Old Sep 9, 2007, 10:54 AM Local time: Sep 10, 2007, 04:54 AM #1 of 40
Ugh, Touhou. I nearly lost a close friend over that moronic game.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of SHMUPS, I just hate how every single top-down shooter made these days has to be a bullet hell, and in SHMUP communities you have to play them otherwise people think you're a weak little pansy who can't handle the spiciness of true challenge. The main problem with bullet hells is that they're less about strategically finding weak spots to shoot stuff and more about just surviving past a certain time limit, at which point the boss or whatever will be destroyed and you can move on. I'm just tired of seeing them..
Uh, no you don't. A person who likes shooters shouldn't provoke others who don't like certain types of shooters just because they don't play them - that's stupid. I play Pop'n, but not IIDX, although they're both in the same genre, and I don't get provoked because of it.

Also I'm guessing you haven't played dodonpachi daioujou, which REQUIRES you to know weak spots as well as dodging curtain fire plus chaining for lives you're going to be needing on stage 5.

Also wrong again, touhou isn't about waiting for spell cards to time out. They have a life bar, and you have to bring it down. If the card times out, you lose faith/points/cherry/whatever and you don't capture that card. It's called failing.

Although there's some spell cards which require you to wait for the timer to run out, yes, but they're rare. You mostly won't see them in the main story but probably in Extra mode. They're called "survival spellcards". Also, you fail those if you bomb or die.

Also, bullet hell pretty much revived the genre.



As for the topic, I'm pretty big on shmups myself. Best genre ever, favorite genre too and I love it. Bullet hell is great fun if you understand it and if you can read bullet patterns. Not so much if you can't. I tried getting into Psikyo shooters which are okay but they're really not my sort of thing.

I really liked Raiden DX but Raiden 3 was disappointing, so I don't care for IV. I own a few horizontal shooters like Gradius V and yeah they're okay, but I still prefer vertical ones.

I'll play most CAVE games and doujin shmups in general if I'm given the chance. I own 3/4 of the PS2 CAVE shooters and 3/4 danmaku touhou shooters. I think they were extremely good value for money.

Jam it back in, in the dark.
Elixir
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Old Sep 10, 2007, 10:00 PM Local time: Sep 11, 2007, 04:00 PM #2 of 40
Really? Yeah, I haven't played that game, and I've been meaning to, but from what the videos seen the bosses have no weak points. You just shoot at their huge bodies endlessly until they die. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that was the essence of bosses in bullet hells and CAVE games.
It depends on the boss itself. Like, for stage 1 of daioujou, weakening either left or right cannon until it's blinking red and killing it when it begins to rotate will drop two hypers instead of one. Although this increases the rank significantly and the first boss becomes quite hard.

On stage 4, bombing when the little spinny things all close in together (provided you're in the middle) will most definitely finish the boss off.

There's also stuff for other CAVE games, like Mushihime, where leaving the feet of the stage 2 boss but still killing it will rack up heaps of points, but it also makes killing it harder. There's times where you'd have to dodge without shooting to pull this off (and it's much harder if you're using W-power).

There's nowhere I can't reach.
Elixir
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 01:11 AM Local time: Sep 12, 2007, 07:11 PM #3 of 40
I told you so.

Also from that article:

Quote:
10:50 - Next, Xbox 360 games. PGR4, Ace Combat 6, Kingdom Under Fire, Assasin's Creed, Devil May Cry 4, Gundam Operation Troy. IT LIVES!!!!!!!, Gundam Musou International, Dynasty Wariors 6, Shikigami no Shiro III, Smash Court Tennis 3, NBA Live 08, Beautiful Katamari Damacy, Operation Darkness, Zoid Alternative, Guilty Gear 2 Overture, Soul Calibur IV, Bladestorm, Dark Sector, Medal of Honor Airborne, Atsmuare Pinata Lets Party, Apocalypse Desire Next, Fantasy Star Univers Illuminous no Yabou, Sega Rally, Halo 3, Lost Odyssey.
heh viva pinata sequel

Shikigami no Shiro III's coming to 360 and Wii. I have Shikigami no Shiro II for Gamecube (Limited Edition with cat figure) and it's a lot of fun. The game feels very polished from the Dreamcast version.

I tried Shikigami no Shiro III for PC in October last year, but eh, it's very graphic intensive and I couldn't run it (funny how touhou is fine for me though).






I might buy it for Wii since I have the VC controller. I don't like the 360's dpad (no one likes the 360's dpad).

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.
Elixir
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 09:47 AM Local time: Sep 13, 2007, 03:47 AM #4 of 40
Wow that isn't worth watching. Not a single CAVE game mentioned, Raiden wasn't mentioned, and they actually mocked bullet hell shooters because "they actually like shooters where you can move."

I guess they haven't actually played through their precious #2 Ikaruga, then.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
Elixir
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 09:58 AM Local time: Sep 13, 2007, 03:58 AM 1 #5 of 40
OUTSPONDEDAlso, Elixir can catch the Touhou jab at the Ikaruga section of the feature if he wants to endure the torture./OUTSPONDED
It's not a touhou jab, it's a CAVE jab. They show a quick piece of fighting Hibachi (first form) in stage 5 of dodonpachi daioujou. First bullet pattern. Probably the easiest part of the whole boss too.

How ya doing, buddy?
Elixir
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 10:35 AM Local time: Sep 13, 2007, 04:35 AM #6 of 40
Considering all their picks are (mostly) mainstream, I highly doubt they even know touhou exists. CAVE are the only ones who still make bullet hell shooters for consoles. It's also very contradictory, seeing as how Ikaruga has about as much "ship movement" in stage 4 and 5 as the one they showed. And just as many bullets.

Even so it's unlikely they'd include a doujin shmup in their list of top 10 shooters.

Good to know you and them share the same train of thought. "It has lots of bullets! Let's show a clip of something with a lot of bullets!"

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Last edited by Elixir; Sep 12, 2007 at 10:41 AM.
Elixir
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Old Sep 12, 2007, 11:17 AM Local time: Sep 13, 2007, 05:17 AM 1 #7 of 40
Originally Posted by Rotorblade
Quite frankly all I've seen from you is constant confrontations in every thread you enter because it's obviously a great way of building character, post count, and a face all at once.

Kid. I don't come on these forums to be ridiculed constantly by some jumped up little shit who thinks he knows it all. If I wanted a "learning" thread, I'd visit wikipedia. No, like most people, I visit gamingforce because gamingforce is for amusing fun times! And bunny rabbits and kawaii rainbows and monkies of the infernal kind and such, not shit. Gotta educate myself after a hard day of work. New game? Fuck yeah, ESSAY TIME ON SAID NEW GAME.

Nobody's forcing you to respond to this thread at all. Nobody is forcing you to read anything and of course nobody's mature enough to lecture someone over PM instead of on the forum, kind of like 90% of your unnecessary response.


Fact here is that, they're saying their second favourite shooting game is Ikaruga which requires precise movement and knowledge of the stages, yet they're ratting on bullet hell shooters although they are the exact same damn thing. Now, I don't care if they used CAVE as an example or not. The lack of any CAVE games whatsoever in their list is a little suspicious. I mean really, no CAVE shooters at all? It's not like every single CAVE game ever produced which is a shooter is bullet hell. No.

In an case their list sucked, Tyrian didn't get a mention. Or Raiden /II/DX. Or Radiant Silvergun.

FELIPE NO
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Exploding Garrmondo Weiner Interactive Swiss Army Penis > Garrmondo Entertainment > Video Gaming > [General Discussion] Top Down Shooters: A Lost Gaming Art Form

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