Let's talk about Windows Vista

I wrote up a long post of impressions on Beta 2 on another forum I frequent, and because they were so long, I will merely quote them here for you to peruse at your leisure.

Originally Posted by killmoms

I'm running a copy of Vista Beta 2 on my PC right now, as a matter of fact. There are some interesting things here, but overall this interface is an example of how Microsoft simply doesn't get it.

My biggest complaint is the widespread lack of title bars. Microsoft has stripped the title bar label out of every Explorer window, and a number of other system related windows as well. If you have a bunch of windows stacked on top of each other, it can be maddeningly frustrating to try to figure out which is which without going down to the Taskbar, reading across the titles, and selecting the one you want.

The focus problems with Beta 1 have been somewhat addressed in Beta 2... now the title bar close button in inactive windows is no longer red, and the windows are made somewhat more transparent.

Of course, the transparency issue is another thing altogether... and it is overused. Sometimes entire windows have no actual solid surface, they're just one big expanse of background-blurring glass (and "clever" moving highlight). This is most noticeable on the "Gadgets" window. Cool for about 10 seconds, until you realize that it makes everything inside the window hard to read.

As of now, the DPI scaling for the interface is pretty much just as lame as XP's. Vista scales only in set increments, and you have to reboot to see the effects—which are lame anyway, since MS has not yet made higher resolution interface elements. Even worse, most interface elements scale up with no filtering, making them a chunky, blocky mess. The Quartz 2D Extreme hooks put into Tiger (and likely to be fully utilized in Leopard) allow for real-time, arbitrary scaling of the interface.

And then there's all the shoddy OS X ripoffs. The Windows Sidebar is a pretty pale ape of Dashboard. It has all the space wasting power of Konfabulator and none of the flexibility of Dashboard—"gadgets" are lined up in a single column. If you've got more than can fit, you can page between them. Plus, they can't vary in size, making some too big (clock) and others much too small to be used effectively (notes or the calculator). It's sort of like what Dashboard would be if, instead of dragging widgets out of the storage bin to use on the Dashboard desktop, they were all just stuck there. The new Win+Tab combination is like the dumb, useless younger brother of Exposé (as Sapphire mentioned). The Taskbar previews are pretty superfluous since, by the time they pop up, you've already read the entry on the Taskbar. If the whole thing was replaced by a more graphical, window-focused Dock (instead of the app-focused Dock in OS X) it might be more useful, but as is it's just more eye-candy.

The worst part is, Microsoft is failing to steal the most convenient features of OS X! Clone Exposé for real, call it Exposure, and deal with the lawsuit later! Steal spring-loaded folders from Finder! How about the concept of clippings? Clicking and dragging images straight out of one app and into another? Come on, guys!

Plus, as Sapphire also pointed out, there's very little in the way of consistency. Even in "Aero" glass mode, when you maximize a window, it suddenly becomes a dark charcoal grey, a la the Taskbar. Wha? Vista feels very un-unified, even worse than the multiplicity of styles in OS X.

The Control Panel is, at the moment, a royal mess. Not only are there a ton more of them (51 at the moment), familiar panels like "Display Properties" or "Add/Remove Programs" have been renamed to the much more vague "Personalization" and "Programs." These, as well as a couple others, divide the old panels up into several text "links" with descriptions... that merely open one tab of the old panels anyway. I hope they at least plan to make everything into the new style they're playing with, because at the moment it's frustratingly inconsistent.

These are just a few issues I've encountered. I'll leave performance judgments until later—obviously this is still just Beta 2, which leaves at least some time for improvements on that front (as well as improvements in the graphics drivers). It is interesting to see that Vista seems to have the same problems with window resizing as OS X did (and to a certain extent, still does).

EDIT: I didn't mention it above, but Merv is right—UAC warns you about EVERY DAMN THING. I turned it off within a half-hour of starting Beta 2 up. And for those who might be confused about my reference to Sapphire's Win+Tab observations, that's the one where it basically makes a slightly rotated 3D stack of windows and flips through them.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Magic

Not sure if this is accurate, but I remember a discussion in my Operating Systems class (last year) about how Vista was supposed to handle drivers differently. Whereas XP will throw up a BSOD if a driver fails, Vista is supposed to actually catch the error and keep it from bringing down the entire system. Anyone know if this is true? And aside from the UI, has anyone actually tried using Vista casually?

Yes, I have. The fact that my long list of impressions are mostly UI based is not coincidental—that and decreased performance (and an annoying UAC) is basically all that's different in Vista at the moment. No WinFS or anything else particularly exciting or new. In my few days with Vista my primary reactions were to the most obvious things, namely that the UI was a step down, not up, and that my games ran significantly slower.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by evilboris

Dunno about you guys, but I'm looking forward to Vista. The GUI looks awesome, it's the first time I'm actually considering switching from the Windows Classic theme. That and the drop of GDI and using d3d acceleration is a reason in itself to use it. I don't care about the new features much, as long as it can be stripped down to work the way I'm used to it I'm OK.

Except GDI isn't really gone, that's the bitch of it. Whereas OS X could make a clean break from its OS 9's old QuickDraw roots, Windows can't drop GDI so easily—what about all the apps that rely on it now which people will still need to run? Running Trillian or Steam or Winamp on Vista is painful—they're drawing with GDI, and interactions between DWM windows and GDI windows are not at all graceful at the moment.

Besides that, like I said before, it seems Microsoft aren't trying to use DWM to speed up their interface or accomplish productivity-increasing things, merely add eye-candy—eye-candy that is functionality-impairing no less.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Magic

OS X has Classic and it still draws classic program windows with the OS 9 look. Theoretically, MS could do something similar while they push people to upgrade their software. Then again, there are businesses that have to buy emulators of their old computers because it isn't "cost effective" for them to upgrade.

Yes, but that's a bit different situation. Classic runs in its own little emulation pool. It's done gracefully, so it isn't "OS 9 in a box on the screen" like, say, VirtualPC or VMWare or what-have-you. Besides, Classic is dead now. Wasn't installed by default on PPC Macs that came with Tiger, and with the Intel transition it can't even run anymore. Microsoft doesn't have that luxury and it shows.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Don't hold your breath.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by KrazyTaco

In comparison, Apple's Mac OS X 10 is ony $130. Kind of why I wanted to know what the different Windows versions had included was to make a better comparison. Somehow though I doubt Windows Vista Home Basic is going to be anywhere near as good as OS X to be charging an additional 50. To be fair though, A OS X would typically require you to go out and buy hardware for it, which besides the Mac Mini (Still $600) always seems to be $1000 and above.

And the point there is really that Mac OS X in a box is technically "upgrade" pricing, since you have to own a Mac that came with a Mac OS license in order to legally use it. So, it isn't really a fair comparison. I'm sure if Apple decided to sell their OS for non Apple hardware (won't happen, but if they did) it'd be more than $129.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Ultima

Disable User Account Control. Directions here.

It makes Vista a lot more enjoyable, I hated it double checking everything I did. "You are about to enter a PORNOGRAPHIC SITE. ARE YOU SURE: Y/N" "I typed it in my browser, didn't I?"

All they had to do was make it reasonably protective, a la authentication in OS X or *NIX, but no, they had to make it overbearing and annoying. Now everyone's going to turn it off 'cause it's annoying, and one of Vista's foremost attempts at tightening security goes out the window.

FELIPE NO

I'm buying a copy of Vista Ultimate for $45 so I'll have a legal copy of Windows, but it's staying on the shelf until:

1. Apple comes out with Leopard. Boot Camp will be finalized, and I assume will come with Vista-certified drivers, hopefully even ones for the 64-bit edition, as I have a Mac Pro.
2. ATI writes some graphics drivers that aren't up to 25% slower in Vista than in XP on the same hardware. I thought Vista was an upgrade.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Microsoft Company Store for employees. No, I don't work at MS, a friend does. Hookups, baby.

Also, Merv, are you really so juvenile as to feel the need to try and provoke me in every thread I post in? It's just sad at this point. Please find some other way to get your rocks off. Thanks.

I'm buying a copy of Vista because, like I said, I'd like a legal license of Windows for the first time in many many years, especially since WGA has made it much more annoying to keep one's OS up to date if you pirate it. It also helps that I can get it so cheap, and I have a real job with a healthy income, so it's not a big deal to buy things anymore. Graduating from college rules.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Merv Burger

Is this shit even serious.

Yes, Megalith, it is.

Quote:

I haven't even done anything to you in months. I figure your posts speak far better for themselves than what I could do.

Yes, and yet you feel the need to step in with some ad hominem about how I just like to stroke Steve Jobs' cock every time I mention Apple. Yeah, I prefer Apple's products to others and it has nothing to do with my sexuality or the fact that "it's Apple, lol." I choose them because I prefer the way they design their hardware and software—they make products I enjoy using and feel have value. I'm also familiar with the other options and even use some in my own home.

Enough with the ad hominems. Apple users who like Apple annoy you. We get it.

There's nowhere I can't reach.