Opus Dei

A friend of mine seems to have been considering joining Opus Dei. She's 17, has a strong Christian background and is a Christian herself, and several of her relatives are Opus Dei members.

Now, I've heard many rumours about Opus Dei's (allegedly) questionable ethics and practices, but I don't actually know all that much. Its defenders claim they are a perfectly respectable organization within the Catholic church, while its opponents, often backed by former members' testimonies, say Opus Dei is little more than a sect.

Basically the question is whether I should urge my friend to stay the fuck out of that organization at any cost, or let it slide. She's a clever girl, but only 17 and sometimes a bit weak on the emotional side. Point being, she might be influenceable.

So... is this Opus Dei thing worth losing sleep over? If you have any advice, information or personal experiences to share, please post.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

The worst thing is, she will be joining this organization because of her relatives, not out of free will. While she will undoubtedly claim otherwise when you confront her with this, you should still make her aware that this is very likely not her own decision but some sort of a bandwagon she's joining.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Yeah, unfortunately I don't think it's possible for me to be the official Bandwagon Police in my circle of acquaintances. Some people are fine with being followers and it isn't my place to say anything about it. As long as it's nothing harmful.

If the bandwagon is a sect, though, then it is my duty as a friend to stop them from throwing their lives away. But we haven't firmly established that yet.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by ^___^

She's a clever girl, but only 17 and sometimes a bit weak on the emotional side. Point being, she might be influenceable.

Two things. If she was actually clever, she wouldn't be a Christian. "She might be influenceable"?. Once again...if she's 17 and still believes in imaginary people in the sky, SHE'S VERY GULLIBLE! Don't just keep her from joining a cult, undo the brainwashing she had since she was a kid!

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Don't even let her near that! At 17, she would definitely be taken in.... losing another person to the Christians...

I was speaking idiomatically.

What's with all the Christian-bashing (even if it happens to be sarcastic)?

I'm sorry, Face, but I don't know a whole lot, despite being Catholic. I know it was supported by John Paul II and that the group may be even more conservative than Catholicism is generally considered. I don't think it's a cult, though. And if it is, there are plenty of worse cults to join.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by ^___^

Yeah, unfortunately I don't think it's possible for me to be the official Bandwagon Police in my circle of acquaintances. Some people are fine with being followers and it isn't my place to say anything about it. As long as it's nothing harmful.

If the bandwagon is a sect, though, then it is my duty as a friend to stop them from throwing their lives away. But we haven't firmly established that yet.

Obviously the next step is for you to establish the actual purpose of Opus Dei. Is there any way you can find out additional information at all? If not, then I'm not sure what you could do to make her stay away. If she is a Christian herself, then it is her beliefs that choose her path. I would warn her about the dangers, but it's a decision she would have to make herself.

Is it just me or does this thread sound very anti-christian? Admittedly I have no faith in religion but still =s

FELIPE NO

You could always try, oh, I dunno, Wikipedia, maybe?

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by ionuk tomb

Two things. If she was actually clever, she wouldn't be a Christian. "She might be influenceable"?. Once again...if she's 17 and still believes in imaginary people in the sky, SHE'S VERY GULLIBLE! Don't just keep her from joining a cult, undo the brainwashing she had since she was a kid!

Fuck off and get out. Your unprovoked Christian bashing is disrupting the thread, and you're not being helpful at all.

Originally Posted by Bernard Black

Obviously the next step is for you to establish the actual purpose of Opus Dei. Is there any way you can find out additional information at all?

That's the thing. Since it seems to be a controversial issue, so far I've found a lot of contradictory claims and little actual information.

I mean, if I believe a site like http://odan.org/ word for word, then of course I'd be worried for her. On the other hand, upon reading the French Wikipedia article on the matter (haven't read the English one Capo linked to yet), it's a perfectly respectable organization and all that, and who cares about the rumours. That's the problem with the internet: anyone can write whatever they please, and how could I know who's telling the truth? I could always pick up a book like the girl's ex did, but we all know those things sell all the better as they are controversial.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

You should really try and ask for a specific reason why she wants to join Opus Dei. Because apart from her relatives being members, you haven't actually named one.

Or does she think joining Opus Dei is required to be a "good" or "better" Christian?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

She's not old enough to join any sect - questionable or no.

Everything I've heard about Opus Dei is pretty innocuous, although I have no connection to them. Time Magazine did an expose on them recently, and frankly there isn't really much to expose. Some of the hardcore members do mortification, which includes inflicting pain on yourself, but it's nothing really serious and not required, I don't think. It's suppose to get your mind to focus. Same thing as laying on a bed of nails in other cultures, I suppose.

But yeah, she's too young to make any decision about... damn near anything. Tell her to get a college degree and then decide what she wants to do with her life.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I would suggest that she wait until she is 20 or so. Mostly because of the fact that ages 17 to 19 can be very much a soul finding and complicated time in someone's life. She needs to understand her self before she can be in a stable mind and be able to make this important decision.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by The Wise Vivi

I would suggest that she wait until she is 20 or so. Mostly because of the fact that ages 17 to 19 can be very much a soul finding and complicated time in someone's life. She needs to understand her self before she can be in a stable mind and be able to make this important decision.

Exactly what I was thinking. Even though I;m at that age too, I know that I'm very easily swayed by things. In fact I don't know what I am myself.

Opus Dei seems like a respectable cult organization. One of the things I'm worried about is the Cilice belt. This could be "The DaVinci Code" Talking (I didn't beleive in the Opus Dei par and I really don't believe in the Holy Grail part). Have her wait a while before choosing. I know that this may go against your code, but show her other religions also. Also make sure se knows what she is doing before hand.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Well there you exhibited an example of being gullible of believing what you see in movies or fictions like Da Vinci Code. The Opus Dei is not depicted accurately like that film, especially like our nortorious "Silas" from the novel. Rather they don't practice self mutilation, or cilice belt. Rather it is just some branch in the Catholic Church, nothing more exemplary such as from the film. Likewise you can just 'show' others new religion, you have to let it sink in. Even so, sounds like her family accepts this belief so it is prevalent anyway to the extent that she is accepting it. So why not let her look and see? I am sure she has a glimpse of what she is going into anyway.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Forget the Da Vinci code garbage, let's settle on the facts. They're an organization that believe the catholic church isn't quite conservative enough. The religion that opposes a woman's right to choose, gay rights and contraceptives in AIDS ravaged Africa isn't quite conservative enough. Are they a cult? Probably no more than the Kabalists in Judaism, or the catholic church itself, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. It's a sect bent on suppression of the rights of certain groups of people because they don't match up with the accepted "norm." That alone would make me iffy about it.

FELIPE NO

I have this feeling that this organization brings us back into the past when we had very little knowledge about gay rights, with no contraceptives, and no AIDS....

How can we learn and understand the world around us by avoiding most of the important issues in this world today? People act like all these things breaks the morals of human society... extreme religious groups such as this give nothing to support morals. Morals are not a general thing that everyone can follow or everyone can understand at the same level. This world is much more complicated than just simple rights and none rights, choices, morals... etc.

At 17, I would completely disagree in joining this group. She needs to understand the real world, its consequences and its facts before joining a group that is just plain against anything that would give freedom or choice on the individual basis...

I hope that made sense.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Well it is freedom of choice as well for her to join this group if it is her decision for the better or worse. Out of curiosity is she completely for it or shows some hesitance about Opus Dei?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by ionuk tomb

Two things. If she was actually clever, she wouldn't be a Christian. "She might be influenceable"?. Once again...if she's 17 and still believes in imaginary people in the sky, SHE'S VERY GULLIBLE! Don't just keep her from joining a cult, undo the brainwashing she had since she was a kid!

I'm pretty much with ionuk here. I'm not questioning the realism of God, supernatural powers, reincarnation, or even a way to change your fate/destiny by the level of fortune you can aquire from one super entity. But with issues such as religion(s), beliefs, and faith, I do question what was the original purpose of introducing such ideals way back then? Back when this stuff never existed. Yes, there was a time when religion wasn't something known or invented.

Spoiler:

If your friend is so easily influenced, then would it be possible still to lure her to the dark side? I sense a strong force amidst us. I must have this power.

Seriously, if your friend is so easily influenced, then this Opus Dei thing may not be a wise choice to do. First of all, how much does she know about the organization? Just "Oh, they're well known, so that obviously means they're reputable?" Or, "Well, everyone else is doing it?"

Being well known can be good or bad, as you know. You can be well known as a famous criminal, or well known as a good sumaritan.

Really now, if I were to meet her and display a colorfully colored cigarette, think she would smoke it when I say,

"It isn't narcotic, it's actually revolutionarily new. This product simulates the activity of a regular cigarette smoker, but in fact, you are simply insulting their "good intentions" to think smoking is at all a good thing. You would be supporting the cause to stop smoking. People will receive this ploy as, 'Hey, I'm smoking a cigarette, but it really isn't and you don't know that. I'm deceiving you and you don't even know it. You should feel insulted, but too bad you won't be able to. Hah!' "

[Once other smokers realize you aren't getting blackened lungs, wheezing problems, and seriously yellow'd teeth, they'll come-to and realize that smoking cigarettes allows people like you to make fun of them in this fashion. This will make them stop instinctively since they really don't like being insulted.]

Spoiler:

But in truth, she will simply be deceived by me and become intoxicated as well as addicted. What could Opus Dei do in my position, if I were to meet her and offer this grand idea/deal?

I think you and your friend should research more about Opus Dei. News, history, policies/rules, events, etc. Perhaps even attend a 'supposedly' major eveny (as claimed by them) and see how active or communitive it is.

Edit: Not to mention, if her family is participating, then it's likely no matter what we do or say, she'll end up joining anyway. Family is the ultimatum in influence.

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Originally Posted by Mojougwe

Spoiler:

I'm pretty much with ionuk here. I'm not questioning the realism of God, supernatural powers, reincarnation, or even a way to change your fate/destiny by the level of fortune you can aquire from one super entity. But with issues such as religion(s), beliefs, and faith, I do question what was the original purpose of introducing such ideals way back then? Back when this stuff never existed. Yes, there was a time when religion wasn't something known or invented.

Spoiler:

It looks like someone needs to re-take World History.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Spoiler:

You don't need world histroy, or anything else, to know that time had been actively been allowing things to happen before you yourself was born. So, based upon that fact, religion must also have had some kind of influencial origin. Such as, some doof hallucinating on heroin or something back then. (Think about it, Christianity must of been created from the world's first drug users.) People of those times didn't know what drugs were. They didn't know what heroin is or what it can do. But they must of ate some of it seeing as it's a plant, similar to cabbage by the fact it's edible. Poisonous? Who'd of ever considered that concept if they're hungry for food. "Ahh, what a plesant breeze. Yet, I hunger for something filling. Aha! What may that be over there? My eye spots something tasty looking. No spectators or officials to blunder my quest, advance I say, advance!"

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Mojougwe, you have no idea at all what you're talking about, do you?

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Eh, there's not much more to say other than what has already been said (on-topic anyway...) I'd say, best thing is to try to convince her to hold off on joining until you've both done some research together, and she can give you a solid list of reasons as to why she's joining. Pros and cons are always useful for making people see things logically.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Opus Dei is basically the masons for Catholics only a little more out in the open and easier to join. Although they do have their own set of fairly hardline beliefs, these days they act far more as a networking group than any form of religious sect.

They aren't likely to start demanding money off her or any weird cult shit like that and many Opus Dei members have got pretty nifty jobs as a result of membership. Personally, I think joining any society like the Masons or Opus Dei or St Vincent de Paul is pretty gay, I'd rather make my own way in the world and not owe too many people favours but there's unlikely to be any harm in her joining.

Step back from all the conspiracy theory bullshit and they're little more than a social networking society. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you mate.

FELIPE NO