Sex and relationships: a practical consideration

Basically, I need data on how the dynamic of a relationship changes once you've had sex. I'm fairly certain if you're far enough into the relationship, it doesn't have much effect. Likewise, I have the impression that if you have sex really early on, it muddies things up a bit, and then generally there tend to be issues.

So what I'd really appreciate is, if we could eschew the moral arguments for the moment, and stick to concrete examples of how actually having sex changes a relationship, if at all.

Ideally, what I hope to accomplish here is to gain some sort of idea on how first-date sex (for instance) would affect the odds of a successful relationship. I lack my own experience, so I'd like to try drawing vicariously on others.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well, I can't give you first-hand info, but a friend of mine was in a relationship for a year (and I thought it was a really good match, too). He blamed the breakdown of the relationship on the fact that they started having sex towards the end of the year, and after a while she just decided she didn't want to be in a relationship with him anymore.

Of course, there may be other factors in this, but from my friend's POV, he thought it was a result of 'taking it to the next level.' I might know another reason it could have been the reason, but I'm the guy's friend, after all. I won't say anything about it :X.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I don't think that there's a strait answer for this simply because I don't think any two people really have the same take on sex. For some, sex is the relationship. No sex, no relationship. For others, sex is just a physical act and they don't care too much about it. For yet others, sex conveys a deep emtional attachment to someone that cannot be expressed via other means.

Because of that, its not useful to try and formulate a blanket statement regarding how sex affects a relationship. No two relationships are really the same. Your partner might interpret the sexual act in ways that you never intended, or they might not give it a second thought. Your going to have to try and read the other person to figure out how they interpret sex before making a judgement as to whether or not its really going to change the dynamic of your relationship

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I'm in agreement with ElectricSheep here. No point in repeating what he said because it's more or less what I think.

Arkhangelsk - you're friend just didn't know how to fuck well. C'est tout.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

At the same time though, a broad sampling of the population and their experiences would give me a framework of expectations.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Relationships aren't driven by statistics and population samples. If you start making decisions in a relationship based on averages from statistical data, you're going to run into problems. You need to learn to treat the individual as a unique individual with unique individual needs, motivations, and feelings or you will meet unpleasant surprises.

The best thing you can do is learn to read the other person, even on the first date. If you have to be as blunt as bringing up the topic of sex on the first date, than do so. The last thing you want is to be surprised to learn that your partner thinks that sex is the holiest gift from God, second only to touching the face of Jesus Christ himself.

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Originally Posted by ElectricSheep

I don't think that there's a strait answer for this simply because I don't think any two people really have the same take on sex. For some, sex is the relationship. No sex, no relationship. For others, sex is just a physical act and they don't care too much about it. For yet others, sex conveys a deep emtional attachment to someone that cannot be expressed via other means.

I agree. I think this basically sums up the deeper discussion on sex and relationships. For a very broad view, normally having sex really early in the relationship--from the relationships I have seen--will either lead to boredom (since sex seems to be almost the farthest anyone could go besides marriage and children) or it will lead to the theory of "why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free". Then again, I have very strange friends that have done almost everything under the sun, but most of the time their relationships would end after sex.

Originally Posted by ElectricSheep

The last thing you want is to be surprised to learn that your partner thinks that sex is the holiest gift from God, second only to touching the face of Jesus Christ himself.

I could imagine someone writing a poem with what you said.

FELIPE NO

Well, so here's the thing. One can't really get any sort of really good data on this; its not like you can do the relationship twice over and see if it falls apart quicker with sex or without sex, sooner sex or later sex, more or less, whatever.

I've known people who had sex within the first week (having both been virgins previously), have stayed together three years, and are getting married in a month. I've also known people who were together two years and never had sex, and it was a huge issue that they hadn't. I think other factors are much more responsible for relationships getting "muddy" or not, like personal maturity. If both partners want a relationship and are ok with sleeping together the first night, there's no hard and fast rule that says, "oh, they're not going to make it."

I'm sure somewhere there's someone who's done a survey about it, correlating the first time a couple had sex to how long the relationship lasts. Do some google searches, tell us if you come up with anything.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Avalokiteshvara

Basically, I need data on how the dynamic of a relationship changes once you've had sex. I'm fairly certain if you're far enough into the relationship, it doesn't have much effect. Likewise, I have the impression that if you have sex really early on, it muddies things up a bit, and then generally there tend to be issues.

So what I'd really appreciate is, if we could eschew the moral arguments for the moment, and stick to concrete examples of how actually having sex changes a relationship, if at all.

Ideally, what I hope to accomplish here is to gain some sort of idea on how first-date sex (for instance) would affect the odds of a successful relationship. I lack my own experience, so I'd like to try drawing vicariously on others.

I bet any strife regarding sex is a function of how old you are. If you're still stuck in that phase where virginity is really important, either to you or your friends, it might make things weirder. But once you grow up, it's expected. No one's going to wait around for your ass if you're still ambivilant about sex at 25, except other people who feel the same.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

It's hard to make generalizations on this matter because every person and every couple is different.

And regardless of how old you are - where you come from also plays a factor. I'm not talking about race or ethnicity but about people pasts. If they've unpleasant experiences w/ the act before than chances are you're better off not going that route.

But as it is in any relationship - sitting down and doing some talking, genuine bonding will serve to some good and save you from some regrets.
I know it did that for me

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Quote:

Posted by ElectricSheep
Relationships aren't driven by statistics and population samples. If you start making decisions in a relationship based on averages from statistical data, you're going to run into problems. You need to learn to treat the individual as a unique individual with unique individual needs, motivations, and feelings or you will meet unpleasant surprises.

People say this, but it's funny how most relationships inevitably wind up falling into very predictable patterns. Relationships supposedly aren't driven by statistics, but then think about how many divorcees you know. It's a function of the personality types of both people involved, but there's a lot less "unique flower" type stuff going on than people like to think. Human beings are simple creatures at heart.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Mucknuggle

Arkhangelsk - you're friend just didn't know how to fuck well. C'est tout.

You said it, not I.

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How much first hand experience do you have, Monkey King?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Quote:

Posted by a lurker
How much first hand experience do you have, Monkey King?

A little more than you think I do, but you're just trying to poison the well in lieu of making an actual argument.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Your argument is "people aren't unique snowflakes." If you think that's a counter to what Electric Sheep was saying, you fail in reading comprehension.

All I'm saying is that, if people behaved as predictably as you figure, we'd have a lot easier time in economics* than we currently do.

* The study of people vs wealth, which is arguably more important to folks than sex, in case you were going to ask what that has to do with anything.

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Quote:

Posted by a lurker
Your argument is "people aren't unique snowflakes." If you think that's a counter to what Electric Sheep was saying, you fail in reading comprehension.

All I'm saying is that, if people behaved as predictably as you figure, we'd have a lot easier time in economics* than we currently do.

Really. Are you actually trying to make a point here, or just trolling?

My point is that no, people generally do not have unique individual needs, motivations or feelings. ElectricSheep is trying to make the argument that no two relationships are alike, making it impossible to draw any conclusions from relational trends, and that's just not so. People tend to fall into fairly predictable behavioral patterns. Whether a relationship will hold together after having sex does depend on a few factors, but there's fewer variables than people like to think. No one likes being told how easily they fit in a labeled box, but that's the unvarnished truth.

Every rule has an exception, naturally, but those aberrant couples have such non-standard relationships that they're probably not even asking whether or not sex is going to affect their dynamic.

Incidentally, the advertising industry says that yes, people ARE that predictable. Economics is hard mainly because there are too many stupid people holding positions of authority, not because economists have a hard time figuring out how people will act.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Question... How many relationships have you been in and how old are you? because you are going about this the wrong way... You are thinking of charts and graphs and demographics.

A relationship is unpredictable... So to every person sex will have a different affect.. Sometimes it improves the relationship, sometimes it fucks it up, sometimes it doesn't make a difference.

I do agree with Monkey that people aren't unique snowflake but people are insane for the most part...

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I'm practically 23 and I'm, for all intents and purposes, completely inexperienced in this type of relationship. I can't say for certain what my reaction to a real sexual experience would be in the context of a relationship, except to say I'm coming to view it as analogous to the amputation of a gangrenous limb. Seems the best way to deal with THAT is to get it over with as fast as possible. With lots of alcohol.

Clearly this is not the most healthy of outlooks. I am attempting to balance the above desire with Plato's definition of a perfect love, which is to say, sex-less. And I really can't explain why I have that as the operative model of romance. It was my hope that looking at how others had managed would give me some idea. I was in error.

And with that, I have likely condemned this thread to angst.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Quote:

Incidentally, the advertising industry says that yes, people ARE that predictable. Economics is hard mainly because there are too many stupid people holding positions of authority, not because economists have a hard time figuring out how people will act.

The advertising industry is irrelevant here. The Advertising Industry caters to millions of people at the same time. I don't think that Avalokiteshvara is planning on engaging in a sexual relationship with millions of people at the same time.

When you are describing a population, you use statistics. When you are describing less than ten people, statistics breaks down very fast and is not very useful.

How ya doing, buddy?

Sex is to some the last frontier in a relationship. To get to that point, you will learn a lot about the other person. After the deed is done, the person loses appeal because you KNOW them too intimately and you want a change of pace.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Monkey King

My point is that no, people generally do not have unique individual needs, motivations or feelings. ElectricSheep is trying to make the argument that no two relationships are alike, making it impossible to draw any conclusions from relational trends, and that's just not so. People tend to fall into fairly predictable behavioral patterns. Whether a relationship will hold together after having sex does depend on a few factors, but there's fewer variables than people like to think. No one likes being told how easily they fit in a labeled box, but that's the unvarnished truth.

Would you like to offer up your own relationship experience as evidence for this. Or, if that is significantly lacking, perhaps you are making a lot of money helping out singles find their optimum partner, or helping couples reach the highest percentage of happiness they can statistically have with each other.

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Every rule has an exception, naturally, but those aberrant couples have such non-standard relationships that they're probably not even asking whether or not sex is going to affect their dynamic.

Actually, most folks beyond teenagers and deity-searching booknerds don't ask whether or not "doing it" is going to hurt their relationship. So that is true!

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Incidentally, the advertising industry says that yes, people ARE that predictable.

There has never been a product that has flopped.

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Economics is hard mainly because there are too many stupid people holding positions of authority, not because economists have a hard time figuring out how people will act.

lollin

I was speaking idiomatically.

Quote:

Posted by Avalokiteshvara
I can't say for certain what my reaction to a real sexual experience would be in the context of a relationship, except to say I'm coming to view it as analogous to the amputation of a gangrenous limb. Seems the best way to deal with THAT is to get it over with as fast as possible. With lots of alcohol.

It sounds to me like you just haven't had very good sexual experiences with the people you've dated. Are you sure it's not just because you dread the act itself? It shouldn't be unpleasant unless someone is doing something wrong. Maybe that's where you always realize you're not compatible with your partner?

Quote:

Posted by ElectricSheep
When you are describing a population, you use statistics. When you are describing less than ten people, statistics breaks down very fast and is not very useful.

Aren't we describing a population? He asked for a general idea of how most people handle sex in a relationship. I'm not talking about just the few people who have posted in this thread, here.

Quote:

Posted by a lurker
Would you like to offer up your own relationship experience as evidence for this. Or, if that is significantly lacking, perhaps you are making a lot of money helping out singles find their optimum partner, or helping couples reach the highest percentage of happiness they can statistically have with each other.

You really hate my analytical approach, don't you. I would cheerfully offer my advice to couples to help maximize their happiness - I know you're mocking me, and it's not working - but nobody ever seems to want it, and they make you get all these degrees to do it professionally.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Monkey King

You really hate my analytical approach, don't you.

Not so much as mock it. I mean, you're not telling us anything we don't already know, but you're acting like it's some holy grail of science x information gradient. It's not, otherwise you or someone else significantly more creative than you would be very rich by now.

FELIPE NO

Unless they've been completely desensitized by late night cable TV and pornography and rap music, most people see sex as an intimate act of bonding. That being the case, it is best not to engage in it until you've both committed to each other. All the studies show that a relationship that is based just on sex will not last. So you have to have a fairly strong bond to begin with and view sex as the icing on the cake and not the cake itself. Furthermore, whether people want to admit it or not, sex has a powerful emotional effect on people so it is harmful if done too early. Humans are both physical and emotional so you cannot have purely physical sex without emotion. This is why I think porn is so destructive, but that's another topic.

It's true that once you have sex, your desire for your girlfriend will deflate some. You've had her, the mystery and allure of the unknown is gone. This is another reason why there must be a real commitment and strong emotional bond. There has to be something besides the sex that makes you want to stay with her. If I were you, I would make sure you really do have the necessary bond before engaging in sex. Probably the best indicator of this is asking yourself if you want to marry her for life. If the answer is yes, there's no reason to rush. You can wait until you're married, and you should. Statistics show that people who engage in premarital sex are more likely to divorce than those who do not.

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Quote:

Posted by a lurker
Not so much as mock it. I mean, you're not telling us anything we don't already know, but you're acting like it's some holy grail of science x information gradient. It's not, otherwise you or someone else significantly more creative than you would be very rich by now.

Everybody knows it deep down, and this is hardly a new concept, but nobody is rich off it because people don't want to hear it. They much prefer the popular superstition of love being this magical force that overcomes all obstacles and hardships, and that each romance is a unique, delicate, beautiful things. People do not give up their superstitions easily; it forces them to critically evaluate their world, and the world is often a scary place. Far better to hide in your little safe place of misconceptions and half-truths.

I know I'm probably just spinning my wheels here, trying to beat people about the head and shoulders with the facts in the desperate hope they'll spontaneously stop being foolish. But it's far worse to stand there silently in the face of such raw ignorance and not try to speak up.

Honestly? I don't even care about the topic. I'm just trying to shake people up and put some honest thought into all these preconceptions everyone takes for granted. You can't just judge relationships by statistics and known behaviors? Why? Nobody ever asks why anymore, and that's the problem.

Jam it back in, in the dark.