How do you see Video Game Music?

How do you see Video Game Music? Do you think it's beautiful because it's part of the game or it could stand alone at their own?

Let's say for example, Mitsuda released an album which doesnt have any connection to games. Do you still want to buy it? do you think VGM is separable from their game? or game is necessary to make VGM good?

Honestly I want to discuss this topic for long time. I see that VGM composers dont sell well outside the game field. Nobuo Uematsu for example, has been hailed by million vgm lovers for his beautiful compositions on FF series. But when I listened to his new-age album "phantasmogria", I'm deeply disappointed. The album doesnt bring nuisance he had in the VGM field. :doh:

I dont know whether other vgm composer has ever released their stand alone album alone before, so I took Uematsu's as example.

Discuss.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Several game composers have released solo albums that don't have any direct connection with games they've composed. You mentioned Mitsuda, well just relased a solo album called "Kirite" just last year which was very good. Norihiro Hibino has come out with a solo work called Akashi. Lastly, and possibly my favorite solo album by a game comopser thus far, Akira Yamaoka released iFUTURELIST earlier this year. All 3 of these albums are great.

Yes, game music is beautiful because it's apart of the game but I enjoy it just as much outside of the game as well.... maybe even moreso. Several years ago, I would not listen to a game album until after I played the game. However, now, that has all changed. Today, almost always, I end up listening to the soundtrack before I play the game. That goes to show how much I love just listening to the music.

How ya doing, buddy?

I have never played the games for the majority of the soundtracks that I own. That doesn't stop me from enjoying the music. If anything, I actually enjoy it more, because I don't have any preconcieved notions about what the music is supposed to represent.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Oh, it's definitely separable. Primarily, I enjoy VGM on its own. Sometimes, it's only because I have nostalgia for the game, though.

Personally, I've never understood the great hype about Uematsu. I liked his work in FFVI, but I was never able to get into a lot of tracks in the the other Final Fantasy games. Sure, it all works in context.. But I don't feel the magic when I listen to the albums alone, unless they awaken my nostalgia for the games.
However, I haven't listened to his work in Phantasmagoria yet. This actually my first time hearing about it.

I'm quite fond of Yasunori Mitsuda's work though, for example. While I haven't played games like Magic Pengel 2 or Tsugunai, I still love the music from those games. His non-VGM albums, like kiRite, are also fantastic.
The same goes to music by the Falcom Sound Team. While I've never played a Ys, Sorcerian, or Legend of Heroes game, I still thoroughly enjoy the music.

How ya doing, buddy?

I'm going to have to take the opposing view on this one. For me, the game is part of the music, and the music a part of the game. The music evokes the game, and in the ideal situation the game should shape the music. You can't look at a score like Disgaea, or Katamari Damacy, and say that the music is separate from the game. The style of the music is crafted to suit the game, and the primary reason I listen to VGM is simply to hear a better quality version, or longer version of the music in the game.

I was speaking idiomatically.

The way I see it, I get a soundtrack either before or never playing a game (eg Chrono Cross, which never made it to Europe...correct me if I'm wrong)
Or I get a soundtrack after I play a game with great music (Unlimited Saga - dull game, great music!!)

I find VGM very inspiring as I am designing my own series of video games - and each chapter has it's own genre of music that inspired it. So many tracks have inspired some of my character designs and stories it's not true

I also have my favourite composers - and I'll make it my best to hear as much of their work as possible to gain new inspirations! Kirite is a gold brick in my collection!

I also tend to find that if I play a game then listen to it's soundtrack, it kinda doesn't have the same effect on me - it's more nostalgic than inspiring - and I look for that when I get VGM. Final Fantasy is a classic example - almost all of the time you what track is from where in the games.

But I haven't played most of the games that I have soundtracks to - so yeah, I think they stand fine on there own, however, I find that some of non-video gamers find VGM boring. They preferr arranged albums or soundtracks that have a really good sound quality. There's only about two or three people I know who really like VGM in person. That's why this place is so great!

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by RyuFAN

I find that some of non-video gamers find VGM boring.

THat's true. Even some video gamers don't have any appreciate for VGM as well. I talked to a guy who called himself a RPGer. THe conversation led to VGM, and he said how much he love FF soundtrack. He asked if I own any of the FF soundtrack so he could borrow it, well, I ripped the whole 10 series's soundtrack into a DVD and gave it to him. The next day, he told me "I just need the soundtrack, I don't need background music, they're boring." I found out it was Eyes on me, Melodies of life and Suteki da ne he was talking about, and apperantly I've never talked to him about VGM anymore.
I feel guilty when listening to VGM without playing the game. The way I love music is it should carry and transmit concepts as well as ideas. If I don't know what that concepts and ideas are, it's not easy to fully appreciate the music. Of course there are exceptions. I really like some VGM that I haven't play the game such as Ys series, or Ar Tonelico .... but that feeling doesn't carry much warmth, soul, joy and like many of you mention, nostalgia as VGM that I already experienced from the game.

FELIPE NO

I used to be the same way, actually. A few years ago, I was quick to label a lot of VGM as "boring" unless it had interesting vocals. Listening to Guilty Gear music changed all that, though. Being a fan of heavy metal, Daisuke Ishiwatari's work was ambrosia.
Eventually, this led to the discovery of other game music and appreciation of the "background music".

It could just be that casual listeners need to check out more of what video game music composers have to offer.

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Originally Posted by eriol

How do you see Video Game Music? Do you think it's beautiful because it's part of the game or it could stand alone at their own?

It depends. You know why I like videogame music? Because, generally, as a whole, it's instrumental. Yet, this music covers all genres. If you try to pick up instrumental music in stores, your selection will likely be from Classical, New Age, Musak, or World Music. There are exceptions of course.

One thing that must be remembered, is that the music was composed for the game. It's not really supposed to take precedence, it's complementary. That's why I can easily listen to it while doing work, it doesn't overcome or distract as most artists' vocals do.

Not that I don't like vocal tracks, or non-video game music. In fact, I have a large collection of Classic Rock, and other music. The actual Cds, mind.

Originally Posted by bishop743

Several years ago, I would not listen to a game album until after I played the game.

That's actually what I do now: I don't download music for games I do not own, or haven't played extensively. For two to three reasons (or four, perhaps more).

1. I can recognize and place the music.

2. I feel better about having the music, if I actually own the game it is from.

3. I need to limit myself in some way, otherwise I'd forever be downloading music.

4. It gives me a reason to rip from my own collection, if the music I want isn't available.

As a result of this, I don't have any Final Fantasy music -is that strange?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by lightgem

THat's true. Even some video gamers don't have any appreciate for VGM as well. I talked to a guy who called himself a RPGer. THe conversation led to VGM, and he said how much he love FF soundtrack. He asked if I own any of the FF soundtrack so he could borrow it, well, I ripped the whole 10 series's soundtrack into a DVD and gave it to him. The next day, he told me "I just need the soundtrack, I don't need background music, they're boring." I found out it was Eyes on me, Melodies of life and Suteki da ne he was talking about, and apperantly I've never talked to him about VGM anymore.

Many of my friends also said the same. It's pity that in their mind "soundtrack" means "song sung by a lead artist in the game" which I think is totally wrong because background music is the essence of VGM:doh:

Just lately I offer my friend to copy my entire final fantasy soundtracks just like what you did and to my surprise, he was only looking for the vocal ones and didnt seem to have any interest listening the background music. In the end he only copied several tracks from mahoroba which I think is a pity because he doesnt respect other instrumental albums. He also underrate most of my vgm album which mainly instrumental, including Dragon Quest and Legend of Zelda. Final fantasy vocal tracks took all the hype.

Well of course it's all return to taste and subjectivity, but I could conclude that VGM music dont get the respect they deserve.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Unagi

That's actually what I do now: I don't download music for games I do not own, or haven't played extensively. For two to three reasons (or four, perhaps more).

1. I can recognize and place the music.

2. I feel better about having the music, if I actually own the game it is from.

3. I need to limit myself in some way, otherwise I'd forever be downloading music.

4. It gives me a reason to rip from my own collection, if the music I want isn't available.

As a result of this, I don't have any Final Fantasy music -is that strange?

Yes, that is very strange!! :P Nah man, I'm just messin'. Like I said, I used to be the exact same way. But since I've become a great lover of vgm over the last couple years, and have developed a joy of just listening to the music, I don't need the game environments to develop an enjoyment. Sure, having played the game first allows one to make a connection and to create nostalgia down the road, but I'm not really concerned about that. That's mainly because I don't play games as much as I used to.

Another reason I listen to the soundtrack before playing the game is because I have to import the soundtracks from Japan when I buy them. More often than not, the soundtrack is released in Japan well before the actual game is released in the States. FFXII is gonna be a prime example. The OST will be released next week and the game won't hit American soil until November. Sorry, but I'm not gonna keep the OST in the shrink wrap for 6 months and not listen to it. I just don't have the willpower to do that. :P

There are a couple exceptions though. Shadow of the Colossus being the latest one. I actually got a chance to play the game before the soundtrack was released. Having played the game gave me a greater appreciation of the music, yes, but because of the amazing quality of the soundtrack, I would have been able to enjoy the music just as much without having played the game.

By the same token though, if I had listened to the OST first before playing the game, I would not have enjoyed the final battle theme at all. However, since I had played the game and heard it in it's context first, I felt that the piece fit like a glove.

So yeah, it can go both ways at times, but generally I don't have a problem listening to the soundtracks without playuing the game or before playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Bishop743

Yes, that is very strange!! :P Nah man, I'm just messin'. Like I said, I used to be the exact same way. But since I've become a great lover of vgm over the last couple years, and have developed a joy of just listening to the music, I don't need the game environments to develop an enjoyment. Sure, having played the game first allows one to make a connection and to create nostalgia down the road, but I'm not really concerned about that. That's mainly because I don't play games as much as I used to.

To be honest, I dont play anymore games (PSX was my last console) but I began to love VGM after listening to Dragon quest and said goodbye to my life as gamer.

Similar to Bishop, I'm also a proof that people dont need to play the games to enjoy the music. I havent played any of Dragon Quest series, Shadow of Colossus, Myst, Final Fantasy XI and forth, Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time and thousand more. I always listen to the music first before playing the game (especially Zelda, I play the game because the music was damn beautiful)

And thanks to the community here, I love VGM even more.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I just ended up liking VGM after playing too many video games. I hadn't really been listening to anything else nearly as much and thus I ended up listening to VGM even when I'm not playing games.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I haven't been playing a lot of video games as I used to, but sometimes playing game helps me appreciate it - Star Ocean 3 for example - I manages to get a hold of both soundtracks when they came out, but I never actually appreciated it properly until I played the game last year - I hardly touched it before then!

I found that with a lot of Sakuraba's works, but now I find I love Baten Kaitos (without playing the game) but yet again I still find it hard to properly appreciate Valkyrie Profile (another game that never made it to Europe) though find more favourites everytime I go through it ^^

And I have found that I have lost track with the mainstream music chart - I find it really embarrassing when I first meet someone, and almost everytime I get asked "So, what kind of music are you into?"

I hate being asked that due to the impopularity of VGM...especially in Britain

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I enjoy instrumental music in general, so VGM is a genre that doesn't leave my collection. I own several independent albums by game composers, and I've still found them enjoyable even if they weren't made specifically for a game.

I tend to listen to a soundtrack even if I haven't played the game as well. Sometimes I end up never playing the game.

FELIPE NO

Several options:

1. Play game. Like music.
2. Haven't played game. Like music.

So it works both ways. In general, there's more of an obvious connection with music from games you've played, as well as composers with more exposure than the rest and as a result, have fairly large cheering sections(read: Uematsu, Mitsuda, Sakimoto...maybe Hamauzu, but few of his games are popular). But it'd be foolish to turn down good music from a game you haven't played. Sadly, some people are like this.

For me, I always rented a lot of games and got to sample a wide variety of music through them (I made a lot of tapes back in the day), so in sort of a natural expansion, I listen to a good variety of VGM and have a lot of cases that fit both examples (nostalgia for the game and non-nostalgia for the game). There's plenty out there for people who want to explore. I have no plans on playing Rumble Roses XX or Makai Tenshi Jibril anytime soon, but I still blast their music.

As for solo albums...Sure. I dig Kikuta's "Lost Files" album and it has no game context (though I assume there's backstory to the six "Lost Island of Souls" tracks).

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Very interesting topic; I've been thinking about that as well for some time, so here's an occasion to let out some thoughts and questions I came up with.

First, to answer your question on if VGM can live on its own outside a game, I'd say a clear "yes"! But I'd add a nuance: I consider there are two reasons why someone can enjoy VGM; either because listening to it brings back memories (nostalgia) or because he actually enjoy the music, as GoldfishX said.. It can also be both reasons at the same time, but enjoying the music without having played the game it's from is a definitive proof to your question. As for myself, the majority of the music I listen to is from games I never played, and I play less and less as time goes by, like some others, so this tendency will increase.

On the other hand, there are people who only like music from games they played. I understand it, but find that it's a sign of a lack of open-mindness. But when some of these people also go as far as listening only to VGM and not enjoying any other category of music that exists, that's extreme! In my case, I listen to many other things, from mainstream/pop/rock, to new age, to symphonic, to jazz, to pretty much anything. I'm not saying this makes me better, but it's hard for me to conceive those people actually are music fans, because they are not. Maybe they don't want to in the first place? Anyway, everybody can be happy with what they want. Let it be...

Now, I'd like to reverse this and talk about how people who never got into video games see VGM. RyuFAN mentioned that it's hard to include VGM in a discussion with someone who's not into it, and I'm also feeling the same. Sure, you can still mention it, but each time I try to, I feel insecure. I have this conception that most people have a bad opinion on video games and the people who play them (see "nerds"), and by saying you listen to VGM, I guess you'd be put in the same category, which isn't right because you can enjoy the music while not playing the games as we said. If you have a strong self-confidence, you can still go ahead and live with it, but unfortunately, I'm lacking this quality and am stuck. But I'm still thinking, and these days, it's about what actually is of interest in VGM, musically-wise. This would give me arguments to explain to someone why it can be enjoyable. There are so many possible reasons for someone to enjoy it that I'm often getting lost. Also, not eberybody enjoys the same kind of VGM, so that adds to the difficulty of coming up with a clear answer.

The people who played to video games in the past make up the huge majority of the VGM fans. Even though some can listen to music that they never played the game of, and then believe it's because they actually like that kind of music, while it's true they have that taste, it doesn't come out of nowhere; their ears have been used to that kind of music and sound while playing games or listening to VGM. That's why, for example, an old lady of 65 years old, who's a music listener, won't go out and buy the soundtrack of Raiden. So, what defines musical tastes? I guess it falls down to what you have been exposed to and also in which context, so it can create an emotional relation, sometimes subconsciously. So yeah, it's possible to enjoy the technical aspects, but I believe there's always an element of how the music makes us feel to explain our tastes. For VGM fans, it's mostly because of their gaming past, but you could take someone that was raised in New Orleans many years ago and he might enjoy jazz from having heard it so often. Another person might not like it though, even with the exposure, so I guess the answer is more complex. There's also mass influence, especially in mainstream/pop music. You see so many people who listen only to this, that I'm wondering how many actually do it because they like the music and not for the conformity confort it can bring. Yes, the music can be good, but there's absolutely nothing else that is enjoyable to them? Wow, that fascinates me! I actually consider those groups as "sleepers" or "sailing ships", cannot thinking by themselves and going to where the external influence guides them. This doesn't apply only to mainstream fans, but to anybody who have very small taste limits, even in VGM like I said. Still, listening to many things can lead into a lack of focus on the things that we like the most and then start to waste time. What's better to do then? I guess a compromise between the two, as always...

So, what would you say to convince someone that VGM is actually of interest, even if he never played games? Starting by saying that it's mostly instrumental and that it holds some unique styles that probably won't ever be heard anywhere else could be a good start. It's very diverse too, although there's much of it that is electronic music. Many pieces have a fast tempo too, some people don't like that. I know there are other good points that can be used, so thrown in your idea!

How ya doing, buddy?

I haven't really got into much discussion with people on the subject outside of this forum, as it's already been stated or implied, that lovers of VGM like us are pretty much a minority.

I agree that whether or not someone likes VGM depends on the kind of music one is exposed to as they grow up. I, for example, had a pretty wide range of music I heard as I grew up. When I was a kid I remember sometimes hearing songs my older brothers were playing, like stuff from The Cure, U2 or R.E.M., while my parents would play something like The Phantom of the Opera and other classical-esque music on the home stereo system. The seed for me was planted with respect to VGM with Mega Man 2. In later years, games like Gradius 3, Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana and Star Fox are what really did it.

I've found in my experience that VGM covers a wide range of different kinds of music, so with my level of music exposure, it kind of makes sense to me. As for whether I wait until after I've played the game or not to download the OST, it kind of depends. Sometimes I'll play a game and hear a song (or songs) that makes me want to get the OST. The earlier games I mentioned are good examples of that. There are times too, however, where I might every once in a while decide to explore a bit and try an OST of a game I haven't played but is related to other albums I already have (i.e. it might be a sequel in a series, or composed by an artist who I have some music for and like). It's a bit rare for me to try something completely new in the sense that it doesn't really relate to what music I have, but it happens every now and then.

In answer to Rimo's last question, since my VGM library (and VGM in general for that matter) is pretty diverse, I would try to appeal to them with an album or albums that fits more the kind of style they enjoy. For example, if they're a techno fan, maybe I'll try Einhander or something. Or if they're more metal or hard rock, maybe I'll give The Black Mages a try.

I also think OC Remixes are a good way to bridge the gap, too. If they play games (or at least did), chances are you might have some remix of an original song to a game they used to really like, done in a style they enjoy, too.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

For me it's rather simple. I can listen and enjoy VGM without the game context, but I never come to a final assessment of how I feel about the music without having heard it in-game. It's just the nature of soundtracks. They're designed to go hand and hand with the context and that's how they should be experienced. As such, I don't think it's closed-minded at all for some people to prefer listening to music they've already heard in context. I know I do.

As far as independent stuff goes, I've sampled some of it, but my preference will always be for soundtracks first and foremost. I just feel like the combination of context and music can sometimes touch upon something greater. I'm not talking about nostalgia either.

I disagree with anyone who thinks that VGM could be better off without the context though. I've had some arguments in the past about it and I haven't changed my position. Even if the game totally sucks, there's something to be said for having a more intimate understanding of where the music is coming from and what the composer is trying to achieve. Otherwise you find yourself coming to a final judgment on something without having all the pieces. This isn't to say that I don't enjoy some soundtracks to which I haven't played the game (I absolutely have and do; there's a certain general love for VGM that extends towards music from games I haven't played), but the measurement of success for a soundtrack is in how well it works with the context rather than by how the music stands alone, so I never push my opinion on a soundtrack to a game I haven't played beyond a certain point. I think the best solution is to have two seperate evaluations of the music. Like this site: http://www.filmtracks.com/ One rating for how the music works in context and another for how it works in album form.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Well when I was really young I never really liked songs with words. So the scores from good movies like Rocky and Dragon:The Bruce Lee Story.

Since majority of the VG songs have no words it brought back why I liked that type of music, you can put your own interpretation on it instead of having what the song means told you by the singer.

And yes I think VG songs can stand on their own, but people have got to give it a chance first...and that's hard.

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