Hitoshi Sakimoto ~discuss~

Discuss what you like/love/hate about Sakimoto's work

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I love his main themes.

I love the layering of strings and trumpets he uses.

I hate how most of his songs aren't that memorable.

I hate how most of his songs use the same instruments.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Opening up a big can 'O worms, eh? This thread should be retitled "Hitoshi Sakimoto: Fight!"

I love most of Hitoshi Sakimoto's music. I love the FFT, VS, and BOFV soundtracks. The music is good, the compositions are interesting, and unlike what Jazz said, they are all memorable. Either that, or I just have an extremely good musical memory.

The simple fact of the matter is that with Sakimoto, you either like him, or you don't, and I have nothing against those that don't. (Hell, I used to be one!) Except for GoldfishX, though.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I like his ambience in Vagrant Story and some of FFT(A) stuff he's made, but otherwise, not.

For me, his music lacks something important, which makes it all sound the same: meaningless, emotionless and filler. I think it's the lack of a distinctive lead sound, a melody in other words. Without a melody it's usually just a wall of sound doing nothing, especially when Sakimoto decides to use massive string sections.

Dunno, I think my view of music has something to do with it. I just can't appreciate half-assedness in music.

Again, every time I question a Sakimoto fan about their reasoning behind being a fan, they go all berserk on me and saying stuff like "you just don't get it" and such. Has anyone come across said group-defining behaviour?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Anybody who thinks Sakimoto's songs don't have melodies clearly isn't listening hard enough. (Ok, a lot of them don't, but a great deal of them do.) I'm saying this not as a rabid fan, but as someone who actually has them all memorized. Even extremely dissonant songs such as Tieger and Neesa have a clearly defined melody.

I can name a bunch of songs just off of the top of my head that have extremely strong melodies

Tieger and Neesa
Joshua 2
Ultima: The Nice Body
Random Waltz
Ovelia's Theme (! X 2)
Dullahan
Remembrance
Remembering
Truth

There are more, of course. Listen harder next time.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Everyone has got their opinion, but Sakimoto is capable using other instruments - some of his piano pieces are some of his strongest works (Stella Deus BGMArrange - Sky Ray (has a piano intro), BOFV - A Small Journey)

Vagrant Story, I feel, is his masterpiece

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Kishin

Without a melody it's usually just a wall of sound doing nothing, especially when Sakimoto decides to use massive string sections.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. It's this "wall of sound" kind of thing, where all the music echoes and you're not sure where the clear melody is trying to get out.

I have the same problem with Motoi Sakuraba (basically the king of echo right there).

But don't get me wrong, it's great in-game, as it creates this amazing atmosphere. Out of game, though... it has to be a major theme or I get bored.

FELIPE NO

He has a few tracks that are excellent and worth mentioning on their own, but i find the majority of his stuff sounds very similar and not much stands out from the rest. His stuff provides a good feel to games but on their own its harder for them to appeal.

How ya doing, buddy?

Classical and mediaval theme would be the first ones appeared when I imagine about Sakimoto. His compositions for FFT are amazing, which makes the soundtrack become my absolute favorite. I havent listened a lot on VS, I dont like the darky atmosphere about the music.

Final Fantasy XII is his masterpiece. There are several tracks that couldnt bore me enough after I listen it thousand times. He's even more classical than Hamauzu I think! I especially love his compositions that using harp and string.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Hamauzu and Sakimoto have there different styles - They are my top two composers

Though I can understand why ppl would like Hamauzu more because he has elements that are not as strong in Sakimoto's work.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I have to say that I am a fan of Sakimoto. I don't think he gets enough respect for being the accomplished, veteran composer he is. He's been in the game almost as long as some legends like Uematsu and Sugiyama. However, while most of his fans chime in about how soundtracks such as Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy Tactics are his greatest works, I have to disagree. My favorite works by him are Radiant Silvergun and Gradius V. I'm dying to hear how he handles a 4-disc Final Fantasy soundtrack (only 13 days away!!). If the FFXII OST turns out to be gold, maybe he'll finally start getting the fanfare and recognition that some of his peers have been getting seemingly forever.

How ya doing, buddy?

One of the overlooked works of Sakimoto would be his Tactics Ogre and Wizardry X. They are nice actually.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

I can name a bunch of songs just off of the top of my head that have extremely strong melodies

I think those are all from his better soundtracks that I already mentioned? ;)

I was speaking idiomatically.

I dig Sakimoto. My only complaint about him is that his work is uneven. Sometimes you get great soundtracks like Vagrant Story or BoF5, and sometimes you get the "wall of sound" effect like in... well, FF12. Sorry, didn't care for his work there. I had trouble following the harmony in Radiant Silvergun, too, actually. When he's on his game he's great, but a lot of times the actual music gets buried.

"Wall of sound". Now I have a proper term for why 90% of Sakuraba's music drives me crazy. I like it now, but I was hours into Valkyrie Profile before I could actually hear anything in the soundtrack. Distinctive melodies aren't a sin, man.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I'd probably list Sakimoto in my Japanese Top Four, alongside luminaries like Uematsu, Mitsuda, and Shimomura.

This is largely becuase of the nature of most of Sakimoto's music, which tends to be orchestral, melodic, and densely "orchestrated" (even though there's no actual orchestra involved; I'm talking about how different sections play off one another and hand melodies around). While this can equate to a "wall of sound" in some cases, it's certainly not the sort of music that trades coherence for volume, like Sakuraba's Battle Theme.

Someone might describe "Tieger and Neesa" from "Vagrant Story" as a wall of sound, for example, because it is quite loud. But despite the overwhelming percussion work, the piece is still very melodic--so much, in fact, that the melody is reprised in "Limestone Quarry" in a much softer form.

Sakimoto, for me, is at his best when he's gone baroque--music that has a slight old-timey Renissance feel--or when he's putting together martial action music. Most of his best work (can't speak for FFXII, since I've only heard a few tracks) has been in this area; I'm less impressed with albums like "Gradius V" though they have their moments.

Of course, if you're a fan of contemporary pop or rock styles, there's very little of that to be had in Sakimoto's body of work. If orchestral and/or melodic material is your thing, though, Sakimoto's a treat. He's like the best of both worlds, combining complexity and a degree of experimentation with strong, traditional melodies. I find it a bit frustrating when composers are all complexity with no melody (Hamauzu) or all melody with no complexity (Kenji Ito); so Sakimoto is in many ways a best of both worlds for me.

Oh, and in my now-abandoned project to equate every Japanese VGM composer to an American film composer, Sakimoto = Danny Elfman.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

I find it a bit frustrating when composers are all complexity with no melody (Hamauzu)

Now I think that's a little unfair. SaGa Frontier II and Unlimited Saga (And CMD) are all full of wonderful melodies. (IMO, the SFII soundtrack is one of the most consistently good soundtracks out there; every song has something to offer.)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I have to agree - how does Hamauzu have no melody!?

SF 2 and Unlimited Saga are truely amazing, and ff7doc has it's strengths to

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Not a fan...I don't exactly dislike him or hold anything against him, as I can listen to the occasional track from him (Radiant Silvergun and Stella Deus both seem to have some pleasant tracks on them), but an entire disc or soundtrack worth of his material tends to trigger the mechanisms in my body to find another CD. The occasional FFT track is fine...An entire disc of the stuff is too much (or for that matter, hearing one of those themes for extended periods of time ingame tends to grate my nerves). The only soundtracks I can say I really dislike from him were Gradius V (a disappointment, given the pedigree of the series) and Vagrant Story, where I can name exactly one track I actually found tolerable or interesting (Ifrit...maybe the second part of Staff Roll). Legaia Duel Saga is probably his best work, from what I've heard. And he did some fine old-school stuff...Bubble Ghost for Gameboy and Chip Chan Kick for PC-FX are a welcome departure from the ultra-serious Sakimoto material we normally get. And I got a kick out of hearing him arrange "Battle on the Big Bridge", although that's probably the extent of my interest in FFXII. Everything else just kind of falls between "Eh" and "Meh".

And I think Piccolo fits Kishin's descriptions of Sakimoto's biggest fans perfectly. Heh...:wave:

How ya doing, buddy?

Quote:
I find it a bit frustrating when composers are all complexity with no melody (Hamauzu)

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

Now I think that's a little unfair. SaGa Frontier II and Unlimited Saga (And CMD) are all full of wonderful melodies. (IMO, the SFII soundtrack is one of the most consistently good soundtracks out there; every song has something to offer.)

So who are you quoting? I don't see that post in this thread...

You're not telling me that's a quote from Hamauzu himself?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I was quoting orion.

Quote:

And I think Piccolo fits Kishin's descriptions of Sakimoto's biggest fans perfectly. Heh...

Uh oh, now it's on. I'm sorry, but you just can't handle the 'Truth', heh heh.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

(IMO, the SFII soundtrack is one of the most consistently good soundtracks out there; every song has something to offer.)

Yeah, the same something. What percentage of the game's tracks have the main melody in it? 70%? The other 30% is victory themes, of course.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

Uh oh, now it's on. I'm sorry, but you just can't handle the 'Truth', heh heh.

I don't think I have to...The Truth Hurts and it's still bleeding from the beating it took in last year's BSE. All four notes will never be the same again.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by NYRSkate

Yeah, the same something. What percentage of the game's tracks have the main melody in it? 70%? The other 30% is victory themes, of course.

So? Each new rendition of the main melody (or the Feldschlact melody, in some cases) is interesting and well-composed.

Double Post:

Originally Posted by GoldfishX

I don't think I have to...The Truth Hurts and it's still bleeding from the beating it took in last year's BSE. All four notes will never be the same again.

Your inability to discern the song's actual melody is proof of your shallow listening ability. Can't you discern more than one or two layers of instruments?

Here's a hint: At the beginning of the song, there is a small seven-note melody that plays. At 1:40, this melody is reprised, only longer, and much happier and more gentle-sounding. At the infamous "four-note" part which begins at around 2:09, that same instrument continunes playing a beautifully exultant melody. True, the instrument is in the background, rather than the foreground, but the melody that it plays is extremely strong just the same. After that, the melody from 1:40 plays again, and the song ends.

Listen hard for it.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek

Your inability to discern the song's actual melody is proof of your shallow listening ability. Can't you discern more than one or two layers of instruments?

Sure. But the song has to actually do something to convince me it's worth listening to more in-depth. Would you bother taking the time to dissect a track through multiple listens that you got no enjoyment out of listening to? It failed long before I felt the desire to harp on the 4 lost notes, melody or no melody. And even then, I still thought it was the most enjoyable VS track from last year.

Same way people swear up and down about Sakuraba's lone 'Battle Theme'...They don't like them and the style they're done in, so they don't listen closer. I like most of them and I can tell them apart (even hum most of them) and which games they go to very easily. Even most of the Tales ones. Should people listen closer? Of course. Does anyone who swears by the 'Lone Battle' theme theory actually like the music they're harping on? I'm guessing the answer is a no.

Thanks to orion for the reminder about that above. :ninja:

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I don't see how Sakimoto and Hamauzu can even be compared seeming as how Sakimoto is classical oriented and Hamauzu is impressionistic. They both are quite good in my eyes, although I appreciate Hamauzu more . The only things I can think that just might put them in the same league is their skill to write and their versatilty.

Sakimoto's most creative works, imo, are Gradius V and Breath of Fire V. They not only had orchestra compositions, but electronica, and even combinations of the two. I am currently hooked to Gradius V at the moment. The compositions are rather catchy and there isn't a single track on the score that I dislike. FFXII seems to be mostly orchestral music, but it just might exceed FFT's brilliance.

Hamauzu is also just as versatile, but with some complexity thrown in. His scores for Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon, Unlimited SaGa (Disc I), and Dirge of Cerberus all show that he is quite the orchestral composer. But he also knows how to write electronica style music as well. His music from Musashiden II, Unlimited SaGa (Disc II), Dirge of Cerberus, and Final Fantasy X show that side of him. He can also combine styles as heard in the previously listed titles. He has written jazz, bossa nova, rock, electronica, and orchestral. His arranging has also proven successful. Piano arrange albums such as SaGa Frontier II Piano Pieces, FFX PC, and Sailing to the World Piano demonstrate his ability to arrange not only his work but also another composer's music. I find Hamauzu a much more refined composer in terms of versatility and creativity.

To wrap things up, both of them are great at what they do. It is clear which composer I like more, but they have their own unique ways of writing. Comparing their styles is completely unnecessary because they are like night and day.

Jam it back in, in the dark.