The 3rd Party in Cheating

Cheating takes at least three people, the cheater, the person who gets cheated on, and the 3rd party. Most people will agree that the cheater is wrong when they cheat. But, what about the other person?

The reason I’m bringing this up is because in one of my college courses there’s a girl that’s showing an increasing attraction towards me. However, she lives with her boyfriend of 3 years. Keep in mind, this isn’t a moral dilemma I’m having. I don’t care if people think I’m wrong for being the 3rd party in cheating or not. I don’t see anything wrong with it, as long as you don’t force yourself on someone. (which pretty much means it’s not cheating but rape)

However, a female co worker of mine disagreed, and we had a heated debate about it a little bit ago. Her position, if you know that someone is taken, you are wrong for being the 3rd party in cheating because you are willingly contributing to damaging their relationship. My position, if a girl comes to me (this chic actually took me out to dinner, and paid for it) then something is already seriously wrong with their relationship because people in satisfying healthy relationships don’t purposely go out and “keep their options open” with people other. That’s not my problem to correct.

She’s pretty hot, and I’m totally surprised that a girl like her is in a geeked out Unix class. So if things progress the way they’re going, I’ll probably end up sleeping with her. Or at least, fooling around with her. In such a situation, would you side with me and my actions/logic? Would you side with my co worker and say I’m wrong for thinking like this? If neither, what is your opinion on the subject matter?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I think that it would be improper for you to try and deliberately break up the relationship she has with the dude she lives with, or to pursue her without regard for her boyfriend, or whatever, but this does not seem to be the case.
Since they are in a non-commital relationship (non-marriage), I do not feel that there is anything wrong with what you are doing.

I however also understand your coworkers position of being a device to break up the relationship, and think that you should also be attentive to the feelings of the boyfriend.
Also, another point of concern, what if she is just messing with you, and has no interests in anything other than some immediate gratification?
Or, what if she is the bait to bring you into a threesome?

Well, that last option is rather unrealistic, but just do be aware of all the possiblilities, to prevent yourself from getting hurt (if that is even a concern with you... considering your personality)

There's nowhere I can't reach.

It's only wrong if you're friends with the guy. That is RIGHT OUT. If you don't know him, or even better, if you think he's a jerkoff, then bone it like you own it, holmes.

Also: Who cares if she has no interest in anything other than immediate gratification? That's the POINT.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I would just make it crystal clear to the girl that it's either him or me. Not both. As long as the cheater gets out of their relationship in a timely fashion, I see no issue with this.

I also think it's wrong to try and seduce someone if you know they are taken, but it looks like she's the one who was attracted to you in the first place, so all the more power to you. It's not your fault her boyfriend isn't doing his job properly.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Ever seen the movie "In the Bedroom"? :P Definitely wait until she has the sense to actually break up the guy before starting a relationship. Fooling around behind another guy's back does NOT end in happiness.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Why don't you try to get to know her better? Like Fjordor said, you don't really know what she's up to. Just because she's showing an attraction towards you doesn't necessarily mean that her boyfriend isn't treating her right. I also think you should steer clear for now. If she seriously has an interest in you, she will do something about it...like break up with her boyfriend. You'll most likely avoid trouble and guilt this way.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I've sort of always felt like you're not "taken" until you're married. If she were married to the guy I'd say you'd be completely in the wrong to do anything with this girl. But since she's not married, she's fair game in my book.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Fjordor

Also, another point of concern, what if she is just messing with you, and has no interests in anything other than some immediate gratification?
Or, what if she is the bait to bring you into a threesome?

Well, immediate gratification is kinda the point, as long as it’s physical and not emotional whoring. And my personal policy on threesomes is, no dudes, or out right ugly chicks. Other than that they get a little weird some times but I don’t need to avoid them.

Originally Posted by Brent

It's only wrong if you're friends with the guy. That is RIGHT OUT. If you don't know him, or even better, if you think he's a jerkoff, then bone it like you own it, holmes.

Hahaha, so true. Also, the guy isn’t a friend of my mine and I’ve never met him before. Of course if he was a friend of mine I wouldn’t bang her. As for being a dick, she never even mentions him in any conversations we have. The only time he came into the picture was when she accepted a call from him. He heard my voice in the background and they started arguing. At the end of arguing he forced her to say “I Love You” so I could hear it. She finally said fine and yelled I LOVE YOU at him then hung up. She also refers to him as “my male friend” off and on but is ambiguous with it.

Originally Posted by ^___^

I would just make it crystal clear to the girl that it's either him or me. Not both. As long as the cheater gets out of their relationship in a timely fashion, I see no issue with this.

I also think it's wrong to try and seduce someone if you know they are taken, but it looks like she's the one who was attracted to you in the first place, so all the more power to you. It's not your fault her boyfriend isn't doing his job properly.

Originally Posted by Dhsu

Ever seen the movie "In the Bedroom"? :P Definitely wait until she has the sense to actually break up the guy before starting a relationship. Fooling around behind another guy's back does NOT end in happiness.

Quote:

Why don't you try to get to know her better? Like Fjordor said, you don't really know what she's up to. Just because she's showing an attraction towards you doesn't necessarily mean that her boyfriend isn't treating her right. I also think you should steer clear for now. If she seriously has an interest in you, she will do something about it...like break up with her boyfriend. You'll most likely avoid trouble and guilt this way.

I should make it clear that I’m only in it for the possible sex. Nothing against her personally but I’m really only in it for the sex with every girl I meet, at first. The problem with trying to get to know her (well) first is that when I do this approach, and I do end up actually liking the chic, they through me in the friend zone and I definitely will get hurt. I’ll never put myself in that position again. Now upon just messing around, if she happens to be kickass enough to point where I actually want a relationship, the only way I would even consider putting the boy/girlfriend title on us is if she didn’t live with him anymore and we worked things out maturely and not impulsively. If not, then it’s not like I don’t have other chics to experiment with. But like I said, that’s not even my goal.

Originally Posted by AliceNWondrland

I've sort of always felt like you're not "taken" until you're married. If she were married to the guy I'd say you'd be completely in the wrong to do anything with this girl. But since she's not married, she's fair game in my book.

Considering that I have no respect for marriage anymore, I’d go about it the same way, married or not. Now, if she had kids involved, then I’d be a little bit more critical and careful about what I do. Still, it wouldn’t be out the picture.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I think she has to choose. She can't "have her cake and eat it too". Like the others have said, someone will end up getting hurt in this relationship. You'd be better off if she became a free agent, rather than sneaking around behind his back.

Do you know if she has cheated before? That would be another factor to consider. You could be the "right guy" for right now, but later on, she might end up cheating on you. That would not be a plesant feeling either, so don't do it to this guy.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Guys, I don't think he wants to persue a serious relationship with someone who cheats on her longtime boyfriend and housemate.

Bitch is accountable for her own relationship, not you.

I like the folks who say "wait until she breaks up with her boyfriend". Let's assume the threadmaker wants a serious relationship with her; if she was in such a hurry to break up with an entrenched man to date this johnny-come-lately, what specifically makes you think she is a safe bet?

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Hey dude, I know what being cheating on feels like. But, when someone cheats on me, I get mad at them, not the person they cheated on me with. The way I see it, if I’m in a supposed committed relationship, and my girl cheats on me, she is the one that did me wrong because she is the one that made a commitment to me and broke it. I don’t care how good the guy was with seduction, no intoxication = you have a choice.

Besides Watcher, your post assumes that I want a relationship. I just want to fuck around, pretty much. So basically, since I’m an emotionally detached fuck-off, the only person that’ll probably get hurt is the other guy. I don’t really expect her to leave the guy all together, although she did tell me that she moved out and they don’t live together anymore. The beauty of all this is that she’s relatively new to my life and doesn’t associate with any of my friends. So, even if some shit like her getting attached to me happens, if I don’t feel like the drama is worth it, I’d just blow her off, with ease. If some shit happens like me getting attached to her, I'll just next her and focus on other chicks, with ease.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I hope you keep your dueling pistols in proper order, son. Because a certain guy is not going to be very happy with you... you do realize how many violent crimes are committed over women, right? You're walking on thin ice, bro, so don't delude yourself about it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

You're going to an awful lot of trouble for someone you say you can get with "with ease".

You say you can get with chicks so easily, so why focus on someone who could most likely cause you trouble some time down the track?
Why not just go for someone you KNOW won't come with hidden strings attached?
Even if you are an emotionally detached fuck off, he won't react to someone cheating on him the same way you did.
Jealousy is a very dangerous emotion to deal with.

Unless you actually get off on that sort of thing (fucking around in secret), save yourself the trouble and go for someone else.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by SMX

Besides Watcher, your post assumes that I want a relationship. I just want to fuck around, pretty much.... ...If some shit happens like me getting attached to her, I'll just next her and focus on other chicks, with ease.

Sorry for making that assumption. I have a friend who is sorta going through what you're going through. And she's after an older married man... Not to pass judgement, but I don't see the point messing with someone who is with someone (generally speaking, not referring to yours). If you're only after someone to fuck around with, find someone else that's not attached (as suggested by someone else).

Trust me, even if you think neither of you will end up getting attached to the "relationship", you're mistaken. Relationships tend to blossom in these situations.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by doodle

I hope you keep your dueling pistols in proper order, son. Because a certain guy is not going to be very happy with you... you do realize how many violent crimes are committed over women, right? You're walking on thin ice, bro, so don't delude yourself about it.

Possible, yes. Not something I’m really fearing though. I guess I’m used to violence and that fact that I might get shot, robbed, or something just minding my own business. Coming up in the ghetto and all, guess I’m pretty desensitized to the possibility.

Originally Posted by Tama8-chan

You're going to an awful lot of trouble for someone you say you can get with "with ease".

I didn’t say I can easily get with her. I said that if she becomes attached to me, or I become attached to her, that I can next her (as in get over/avoid) with ease.

And I wouldn’t call posting on gaming force trouble, because that’s about the extent of what I put into it so far. Aside from helping her with some class work, but I helped a lot of people in the class with work. I’m not stupid enough to believe that a girl is going to fall over me because I helped them with writing Unix scripts. I did that because I wanted too. And she showed friendly signs towards me before I helped her.

Originally Posted by Tama8-chan

You say you can get with chicks so easily, so why focus on someone who could most likely cause you trouble some time down the track?

When did I say that? I’ve been shot down plenty of times before. And in my experience, messing around with girls is going to cause drama somewhere along the line, regardless of FWB or relationship context or not.

Originally Posted by Tama8-chan

Why not just go for someone you KNOW won't come with hidden strings attached?

She’s not the only person I’m testing my options with. And you never know whether hidden strings are attached, hence hidden.

Originally Posted by Tama8-chan

Even if you are an emotionally detached fuck off, he won't react to someone cheating on him the same way you did. Jealousy is a very dangerous emotion to deal with.

We don’t know that and it’s not like this guy could easily find my where whereabouts anyway considering that I only got with her outside of college twice. (I don’t live on campus) Besides, if he’s crazy enough to attack me (with a weapon, because otherwise I’d just tell him to bring it on) he’ll probably do it regardless if they were together in name or not. Violent people don’t care about shit like that, I’ve been around enough of them to know. You take the same risk when you date someone, who isn't attached, and just happens to have that psycho ex that can’t get over her, and she never told you about him. If anything, getting involved would be more dangerous, which is something I seriously don’t plan on doing.

Originally Posted by Tama8-chan

Unless you actually get off on that sort of thing (fucking around in secret), save yourself the trouble and go for someone else.

Remember that the of this context isn’t, “omg I’m so into this chic.” She initiated contact with me first. She asked me out. In which, I’ve decided to see what happens with this. It’s not like I’m trying to steal her from her boyfriend. And it’s not like I’m even 100% sure that things will continue going the way they are. For all I know, she could up and be like ‘this is wrong’ and blow me off.

I didn’t really make the thread to talk about my person situation, more so people’s logic on whether not being the 3rd party is wrong. I just used this example as a filler. And the debate with my coworker got me thinking about how different opinions might be from mine.

Originally Posted by Watcher

Sorry for making that assumption. I have a friend who is sorta going through what you're going through. And she's after an older married man... Not to pass judgement, but I don't see the point messing with someone who is with someone (generally speaking, not referring to yours). If you're only after someone to fuck around with, find someone else that's not attached (as suggested by someone else).

Once again, it’s not like I deliberately go around looking for attached people. She showed signs of attraction towards me first. I could very easily be wrong, and just miss read her, no big deal. Now, I would half way agree with you if the 3rd party deliberately went out and seduced people who were taken. In such a case, I wouldn’t think the person is ‘right’ but still wouldn’t put as much weight on them as I would the person who’s doing the cheating. I’m the type that’s big on being responsible for your own shit. Thus ultimately, I still think it’s up to people in an actual relationship to make theirs work, and you don’t do that by cheating. While I understand that relationship goes through hardships and the desire gets real, unless you are physically impaired – to the point where you can’t think coherently anymore – your consciousness still has control over your actions. You don’t have to act off desire.

Originally Posted by Watcher

Trust me, even if you think neither of you will end up getting attached to the "relationship", you're mistaken. Relationships tend to blossom in these situations.

You’re right, this does happen a lot. However, I’ve been in the situation of “it’s time to leave the fuck buddy because feelings are developing and pursuing something serious simply isn’t smart” before. If this did happen, (which I don’t think it will, because there’s another girl that I want waaaaay more than her now) it’s not like I wouldn’t be able to deal with it.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Brent

That is RIGHT OUT.

FIVE!

In my experience, the third party always feels guilty, which to my mind means that it's not the right thing to do. Especially in cases where the third party is actively trying to lure the cheater away from the other relationship (as opposed to the cheater persuing them), I would say they're equally at fault.

It's more a question of honor than anything else. People who have absolutely no issues being the third party tend to be assholes. =)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by nadienne

In my experience, the third party always feels guilty, which to my mind means that it's not the right thing to do. Especially in cases where the third party is actively trying to lure the cheater away from the other relationship (as opposed to the cheater persuing them), I would say they're equally at fault.

So right and wrong should be based mostly off emotions? And, I find that honor usually = gross lack of independant reasoning, and submission to weakly founded axioms.

Jam it back in, in the dark.