Being too much of a friend to girls

I have this problem, it's not that I'm not friendly or think that I'm not showing my affection towards girls, it's that I just can't get over the friends part. I have no problem whatsoever getting to know them and having a friendly talk with them, but that's all there is to it usually. I do feel appreciated and at many times I can feel some kind of connection, that maybe the feelings could be returned, but I just can't go further unless the girl makes the move. I'm too afraid of them turning me down looking like an idiot. So I've recently realised that everyone just sees me as that friendly guy. Almost like they think I already have someone or that I'm not looking for a relationship while I really am. I just don't know how to get out of this situation, and it is really starting to get on my nerves. There is one girl that I've liked for some time, and I really think we have a lot in common, but I just can't get anything started as it seems like she haven't even considered me as a boyfriend.

Daah! Any tips on what I could do?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

You could act like an ass, so girls don't see you as their friendly brother. Always being this super nice guy kind of gives off this message to girls that "he has no backbone". Who wants to date a spineless weenie? Most people don't seem to like that. Or you could take a risk and not worry about looking like an idiot and actually ask girls out. There is a saying about love and looking foolish.

Also, ASCII noodle dance kirby in your sig, yeah, you got to get rid of that. I wouldn't dismiss it as a possibility that your sig alone is the reason you can't break out of the friend zone.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by nanaman

but I just can't go further unless the girl makes the move. I'm too afraid of them turning me down looking like an idiot.

That's it right there, mate.

Being scared is no excuse. Everyone who's ever asked someone out has had to face the fear of being rejected. The successful ones had the guts to at least give it a try.

Sitting around waiting for things to happen to you is a surefire recipe of getting absolutely nowhere. If you want something, throw out your passiveness, and, y'know, go out and get it, mmkay?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Yes. As Denicalis might say, GROW SOME BALLS MAN!

But yea, I have a trouble with being a bit too nice. I feel women see that as a sign of weakness but not all of them do. However, its true that if you want to find love, you have to look for it.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by RainMan

But yea, I have a trouble with being a bit too nice. I feel women see that as a sign of weakness but not all of them do.

I'm not sure it's so much "being too nice" as it is "not being able to stand up for yourself". I'm not saying that you're like that, but a lot of the time, when someone is considered/describes himself as "too nice", what he really means is "spineless."

I'm sure women (or men, for that matter), would have no problems being in a relationship with a genuinely nice, but assertive and self-confident person.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by russ

Also, ASCII noodle dance kirby in your sig, yeah, you got to get rid of that. I wouldn't dismiss it as a possibility that your sig alone is the reason you can't break out of the friend zone.

Nooooo, anything, anything but that

But seriously, I can't act like an ass, because I aint one. I feel like I just can't make a jerk out of myself just to get girls. But I guess somehow that it is partly one of the reasons I won't get anyone. Because I seem "spineless". I don't regard myself as that though, but I guess others really do. I'm one of those persons who wants to be in a good position with everyone so I just don't pick down on others I don't like particularly, and I don't talk shit about others and always try to take as much of an objective standpoint on things as possible. I really feel a lot of people hate people for petty things, and I wouldn't go talking shit about anyone like that for trivial matters. But it is somewhat a part of my faith and beliefs so it feels kind of hard to abandon that perspective of things too.

One of my problems with getting into deeper relationships with girls is probably because I want assurance. Like the girl searching body contact and wouldn't mind me doing it neither. It's like I need to get to a certain level of trust before I can actually ask a girl out, tell them that I like them. But then, I guess that is because most of the girls I've been with always has come to me first and making the move before I had to. So I guess I'm just inexperienced in a way to actually get to the state of asking a girl out by my own advancement. Oh well

I've really been thinking of asking this one girl out though, but I just can't think of any reasons why I would start "get interested" in her now (I've been interested all the time) since I've been seeing her only at school for like 1½ years just having this "upper to underclassman" friend relationship, and well it feels like she would reject me because I just don't really know her that well because I've rarely asked her about who she is and what she is like a person and so on so dahhh (and it really feels like it is to late for that). Aww crap I'm just scared of getting rejected I guess >_< It feels like the only time I'd ever be able to ask her out is when I'm a bit drunk and that just seems inappropriate, and she would probably think that I was a jerk once again for only being able to do it while drunk.



What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Good god. Grow a set of balls. Nothing on the face of the fucking earth is a sure thing. You need her to draw you a road map to know she's into you? Who the hell are you to put all the weight on her to make a decision? I mean, you want to know why girls don't dig on you? Because you're bloody spineless and acting like they should do all the work.

Predatory, slick. Learn the word. Adopt it. You don't have to be a rapist, but man, a little pursuit would not go awry. So long as you keep sitting back and wondering why they won't do all the work, you're going to die sad and alone, or in a relationship where you're a henpecked little jag-off husband for the rest of your natural life.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by nanaman

But seriously, I can't act like an ass, because I aint one. I feel like I just can't make a jerk out of myself just to get girls. But I guess somehow that it is partly one of the reasons I won't get anyone. Because I seem "spineless".

You're kind of missing the point, good sir. You don't have to be an ass or a jerk to be self-confident and assertive.

Put yourself in the shoes of the girl for a bit. Would you want to be with someone who had the confidence and strength to take care of himself (and the people around him), or would you want to be with someone who sits around passively waiting for things to happen to him and for people to pay attention to him? Note that this has nothing to do with being a jerk.

I'm really talking about the difference between a confident person and a wet noodle. Confidence isn't easy to build up, but it's perfectly possible to attain it without resorting to arrogance.

(Honestly, I'd like to find the person who came up with this "nice guy/jerk" dichotomy and dunk his head in a bucket of water. It's not a one or the other choice, you know.)

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Denicalis

Good god. Grow a set of balls.

Listen to the man! He knows his shit.

Originally Posted by Stop Sign

I'm not sure it's so much "being too nice" as it is "not being able to stand up for yourself". I'm not saying that you're like that, but a lot of the time, when someone is considered/describes himself as "too nice", what he really means is "spineless."

That's an interesting way of putting it and might be somewhat true. I find myself flustered around beautiful women a lot and usually put up a bit of an act so as to keep composure and spouting off gibberish and having a seizure. My methodology is either act 'nice', or over do it with confidence and come across as pretentious. I certainly don't think I've found the right balance yet.

It's probably just a bit of conditioning that I need to work with.

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I will be the first to say that as a girl, I refuse to ask out the guy.
I've done it a few times, and no matter how uncomfortable it is for you boys to do it, it's ten times as awkward for the girl to do the outright asking.

Also, I see that perhaps you are a musician? This explains a lot about the fact that you can't get up the nerve to ask a girl out...there are so many damned musician guys that are completely inept at asking out women in the music world (from a music major's perspective, that is). Even if a girl turns you down, chances are it will make her feel good about herself to be asked out. Unless she's a heinous bitch, I'm sure she won't put you down or make fun of you if she turns you down. And as somebody who has been asked out by a (very very close) friend, I can say that it didn't do anything to our relationship. I just explained why I didn't think we should be together, but that I still care about him and that was that.

I know how freaking hard it is to ask a girl out, but you need to do it. Sorry.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Being nice and being assertive can co-exist. Anyone who says otherwise is just defending their own spinelessness.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Arkhangelsk

I will be the first to say that as a girl, I refuse to ask out the guy.
I've done it a few times, and no matter how uncomfortable it is for you boys to do it, it's ten times as awkward for the girl to do the outright asking.

Also, I see that perhaps you are a musician? This explains a lot about the fact that you can't get up the nerve to ask a girl out...there are so many damned musician guys that are completely inept at asking out women in the music world (from a music major's perspective, that is). Even if a girl turns you down, chances are it will make her feel good about herself to be asked out. Unless she's a heinous bitch, I'm sure she won't put you down or make fun of you if she turns you down. And as somebody who has been asked out by a (very very close) friend, I can say that it didn't do anything to our relationship. I just explained why I didn't think we should be together, but that I still care about him and that was that.

I know how freaking hard it is to ask a girl out, but you need to do it. Sorry.

Yeah I'm a musician, so that mean I have something to put my blame on. YES

Well, I've never had a girl ask me out, that is not it (I'm not THAT lame), it's just I feel like I can't ask her out before she gives me a hint or that glimpse in the eye, that stroke on my back that tells me she wants me to. Like I need to be totally assured of it. I guess you're right though, I don't think she'll put me down or make fun of me as I know she ain't that kind of person, I'll just have to take the chance this time, so that I'll learn.

Ah well, it seems like I've been going the wrong way about things really being all too modest with things, not taking sides nor putting myself on a pedestal. But I don't really understand how I'm supposed to show off my confidence (I've got no probs with self-confidence really if I'd say it myself). Should I be telling people about my good qualities or what? Showing off my piano skills by playing the Minute Waltz? I dunno XD

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by nanaman

Showing off my piano skills by playing the Minute Waltz? I dunno XD

The majority of women will not give a ripe fuck about your music skills. They want humor, assertiveness, a sense of comfort, and possibly your penis (if you play your cards right).

I was speaking idiomatically.

In the "wise" words of many cheerleaders out there, I pass on wisdom to you.

Be agressive.
B-E agressive.
B-E-A-G-G-R-E-S-S-I-V-E.
Be agressive.

Honestly, if you don't make the first move, they'll NEVER know that you want them. I suppose as long as they know that you want to be more than a friend to them, they'll understand.

What's the worst that she could do to you? Her saying no is probably the biggest thing that might happen to you. Otherwise, you're still friends after you ask.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I won't repeat what has been said here because you can just read those posts again. You should read those posts again, actually. But I will add one thing.

You can ask people what to do with girls a million times and get these kinda answers (at best! A lot of people won't give the kind of no-bullshit all-truth answers that you see from Deni, Stop Sign and others in this thread), but the most effective method of learning is still apprenticeship.

What I mean by this is: become friends with guys who know what they're doing with women. Not only are those guys usually super fun to hang out with, they will rub off on you. And I don't just mean "oh he hangs with that cool guy, so he must be a cool guy too" (that ALSO happens). I mean they will teach you things, you can see them work, and you will pick up their mannerisms.

And yeah the asking out thing. What is she gonna do, cut you up? Kill your parents? No. Then what, exactly? You cannot be hurt by ANY woman. They are the weak gender for a reason. We ARE the predators, but to catch prey, you DO have to hunt.

EDIT:

Quote:

I will be the first to say that as a girl, I refuse to ask out the guy.
I've done it a few times, and no matter how uncomfortable it is for you boys to do it, it's ten times as awkward for the girl to do the outright asking.

See this? That's how weak women are, they can't even ask a man out. Rejection from someone like that (and this may be quoted from Ark, but she's not alone--almost all women won't ask a guy out no matter what) is meaningless.

EDIT2:

Oh yeah and the friend zone thing--I don't know about anyone else, but in my experience, once you're in you never get out. Ever.

FELIPE NO

I think I've really gotten some insight on this matter now. I just need to go to the offense with this thing Because it seems that is really what is missing. So I'll bring up my courage and start showing what my intentions are. And if it doesn't go the way I want it, heck it'd still be better than nothing. And then, well, I have more than one candidate to be honest so... Could just keep on trying if I fail

But dang, I totally brought up my courage for going through with this just like for an hour or two ago when we both were going to orchestra practice, or that's what I thought because when I got there she wasn't even there Oh well, I'll start with it tomorrow and see how it goes.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Instead of thinking about making her happy, think about putting your penis in her. That should help with going on the offensive

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Immortal

Instead of thinking about making her happy, think about putting your penis in her. That should help with going on the offensive

And if that fails you can always slip her some rohypnol

There's nowhere I can't reach.

A few things:

1.) Eventually, you have to show some initiative. Yes, there IS the risk that asking someone out and them saying no will create some awkward feelings, but that's just how the world is. And many times, if you are told 'No', say that you understand (in a mature way), then it will create only temporary awkwardness.

2.) Being nice != having no opinion. Yes, when I was young, I agreed with EVERYTHING girls told me because I wanted to be nice and not create arguements. Over time I have found that it is OK to disagree on someone. Like, not something like "I like Vanilla Ice Cream-not Chocolate", but seriously disagree. For one, it shows you are an individual with your own tastes, opinions, and ideas (which is greatly wanted). Another, it shows that you will stick to your beliefs and not be wishy-washy if someone says something else. You don't need to get into a yelling fit with someone, or curse them out, but you CAN be firm on your opinions. Think of it this way: If you always agree with the girl you really liked on everything even if you didn't, what type of relationship would that be down the road?

3.) You don't need to talk down people to have things work out. If anything, you're showing a bit of courage by refusing to give in to peer pressure. If you WANT to state your opinion, you can, but you don't have to. Realize some will get annoyed by this, but ignroe that.

4.) As said, (although I will slightly disagree on), once you're in the friend zone, you can't get out. Almost anyways. I actually know of friends who were good friends for quite a while, had no interest in each other, then do date, get married, have children, etc, etc, etc. Not saying it happens often (so don't hold your breathe), but it's not impossible either.

5.) Keep in mind that while some may not care about your music skills, some still may. It is a conversation topic. And there are those who REALLY like to discuss it.

How ya doing, buddy?

Okay, so I tried going a bit forward today, by being a bit more attentive and giving her hints. Unfortunately, it seems like now I really know there can't be anything with that particular girl, she didn't directly say anything, but the awkward atmosphere told it all. So it turns out I'm in the dreaded friend zone, and it seems like I won't be able to get out of it neither. And even though I thought we got along so well. Crap.

Even though I haven't changed completely I can say I still feel a bit different from yesterday. I realized I've pretty much been avoiding eye contact more or less with girls in fear of getting an awkward atmosphere so I tried my best doing the opposite today and got some promising reactions from some girls Man, it's almost like magic! I'll have to see if it leads to anything though.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Hm, it happens. Better to know than to not, ya know? Now you can refocus those energies towards others.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by nanaman

Okay, so I tried going a bit forward today, by being a bit more attentive and giving her hints. Unfortunately, it seems like now I really know there can't be anything with that particular girl, she didn't directly say anything, but the awkward atmosphere told it all. So it turns out I'm in the dreaded friend zone, and it seems like I won't be able to get out of it neither. And even though I thought we got along so well. Crap.

Even though I haven't changed completely I can say I still feel a bit different from yesterday. I realized I've pretty much been avoiding eye contact more or less with girls in fear of getting an awkward atmosphere so I tried my best doing the opposite today and got some promising reactions from some girls Man, it's almost like magic! I'll have to see if it leads to anything though.

There's only one sure-fire way out of the friend zone, and I give you this information in hopes that it might really help you out.

Step 1) Get a really hot girlfriend (or someone to play the part)
Step 2) bring her to functions you know the girl you really like will be at
Step 3) act all happy and such with girlfriend (or actress)

Eventually the girl you really like should come around. It's worked for me in the past, then again, I have some really hot friends who don't mind being my fake girlfriend either haha

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by russ

You could act like an ass, so girls don't see you as their friendly brother. Always being this super nice guy kind of gives off this message to girls that "he has no backbone". Who wants to date a spineless weenie? Most people don't seem to like that. Or you could take a risk and not worry about looking like an idiot and actually ask girls out. There is a saying about love and looking foolish.

Also, ASCII noodle dance kirby in your sig, yeah, you got to get rid of that. I wouldn't dismiss it as a possibility that your sig alone is the reason you can't break out of the friend zone.

As sad as it is, russ is right on. I went through a similar phase in my life, and toughening up made all the difference.

FELIPE NO

Quote:

It's like I need to get to a certain level of trust before I can actually ask a girl out, tell them that I like them.

I read this and I thought I'd share with you a revelation I had.

I'm the same way when it comes to relationships. When it comes to a random fling, I don't really care, but if I really want to be in a steady relationship with a girl, I need that trust thing. I need to build up a sense of trust and friendship before I'd want to go ahead with a relationship.

The problem with this is that when this happens, you often get lumped in the friend zone, with little to no escape. My revelation was that my entire, I guess criteria for getting into a relationship is a nearly impossible hurdle. It's a catch-22. I need friendship before I can be comfortable in a relationship, but that leads to being stuck in the friend zone!

I have yet to "overcome" this problem. I don't see it as a problem, more of an impossibly high standard. I know that when I DO find a girl who is a good friend and is willing to make the jump with me, it will probably be absolutely amazing. I don't see why it wouldn't be.

Basically, just do what everyone else here has said. Be assertive, be more confident, lay down some hints, and just be a little more pushy towards it. Eventually, just tell her how you feel. It may work, it may not, but in the end you tried, and that's always better than not trying.

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You don't get a girlfriend the very second you go on a date with them. It takes some time. This isn't the movies. This is real life.

Just ask them out and try not to worry about the outcome because sometime things work out rather well.
I asked a girl out to the movies who didn't seem to be attracted to me in that kind of way but surprisingly she said ok. She didn't really give it much thought at that time. She was like, "umm... sure, ok." She was thinking just a casual outgoing with one friend and not a date but then after that evening we started getting closer and closer.
I was anticipating rejection in the very beginning and I bet she never expected a relationship to grow from it.
So just try, because you never know.

And if she does turn you down then it's like nothing happened at all. You'll still be friends. It's not like, "Omg, she turned me down. We can't be friends anymore or she doesn't want to be my friend." Let me tell you, staying friends is a great thing.

Jam it back in, in the dark.