Why sometimes Humans are worse than animal?

I just have had my class of conflict resolution yesterday... the docent gave decent example of brutal conflict happened in the world. He mentioned about the state rape done by Serbians toward Bosnians, or Nazi toward Jewish, Indonesians toward their local chinese.

Questions pouring in my mind... even animal wont do such things. Why humans sometimes are worse than animals? I remember my docent quoted a serbian soldier answer when he was put in trial for raping women: he did it so that the Bosnians would bring their seed and thus, there would be no pure bosnians anymore. wtf? I simply couldnt believe it.

How come these ppl who call themselves humans comitted such things heartlessly?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Conflict WILL always be part of ourselves. It's that simple. Also superiority, remember those atrocities done in World War 2? If you must know, humans are sometimes called "reasoning animals".

Even animals fight for survival. We humans just take it to another level.

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This is such an interesting topic.

Humans are, by nature, bloodthirsty creatures. Just read about the "shows" held in the Roman coliseum. Why do you think that almost all people will slow down to look at a gruesome accident on the side of the highway?

This reminds me of something I watched on the National Geographic channel the other day. A group of scientists studied chimps to find out if humans were the only species capable of committing a calculated, cold-blooded murder on another of their species and they found that chimpanzees will also do this. He followed a group of male chimps who had recently discovered that a young male chimp from a rival tribe had been sneaking over to mate with their females, and it was so disturbing (yet fascinating) to watch those chimps slowly and silently creeping through the forest so they could take the rival chimp by surprise.

When they found him, they all jumped him and took turns brutally beating him to death. They even ripped off his male parts in their anger. It was all so organized and premeditated and...creepy!

Anyway, that's my two cents.

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Lack of intelligence might have something to do with. And, I swear I remember reading somewhere that some species of money actually do gang up on their peers that they consider weak. Our so-called intellect just amplifies the nature of this. I might be wrong about the monkeys though.

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Originally Posted by SMX

Lack of intelligence might have something to do with. And, I swear I remember reading somewhere that some species of money actually do gang up on their peers that they consider weak. Our so-called intellect just amplifies the nature of this. I might be wrong about the monkeys though.

I don't think it is lack of intelligence so much as lack of empathy.

I was speaking idiomatically.

And dolphins play with their helpless prey, etc. etc.

Humans are just a lot more creative about it. Are we alone in feeling empathy, though? Do other animals restrain themselves because of a conscience? That's what I'd like to know.

How ya doing, buddy?

Well humans are sadistic by nature. I mean for example can you think of anyone who's never seen or heard about somethign terrible happen to someone they dislike and thought that it was good because they "got what they deserved?" So it's more a matter of what a persons standards of what makes people deserve bad things than the raw capacity for it that varies. Also the degree of what needs to be done to the people who deserve it will greatly differ from person to person.

Animals on the other hand largely have a specific instinct driven reaction to a specific thing so it's less up to a concious choice about how sadistic to be in reaction to something. Though I've known a few animals that are just plain mean and like to hurt and kill other things seemingly for fun in ways not common to their species so I don't think you can truly count all animals as innocent either.

But basicly some people are either naturaly rigged to not give a shit abotu deserving or are taught to be that way and so can the wonderful creative ability's we have to harming other's with no issues. After all if a dog that that likes to rip the limbs off of things and leave them to die had the capacity to do some of the horrible things we have the ability to do via tools or just our greater ability to think of painfull things to do to something they would.

FELIPE NO

Animals do not do it because they simply do not have the capability to do it. Give them a brain comparable to the human brain or close to it and watch some of them commit horrible acts. Animals are driven by instinct and that is it. They just live moment to moment.

Humans on the other hand have evolved enough that we no longer live like this. We no longer live by instincts as much as other animals do. We have the capability to choose and reflect on our actions. We have the capability to feel and express our emotions in ways more primitive minds cannot. We have the capability to judge on what is evil and what is not.

People are not born evil or good. They grow up and become a blend of both. Depending on the experiences they go through and how they react to them will judge how they react to future events. We have the power to do good or evil. We have the choice to do either.

Look at Dolphins. They suposedly have a mind comparable to ours and they seem to do the same things Humans do. Perhaps to them they just see it as playing? Maybe they just dont care. It's okay in thier eyes. They made that choice.

Humans kill other Humans because they can and choose to. That's just life. Give any other lifeform that choice and some of them will do the same. But maybe you'd like a life without choice? Then there would be no evil acts because there's no one to do them or judge them.

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Quote:

How come these ppl who call themselves humans comitted such things heartlessly?

Most of these systems work because society is structured in which citizens are expected to trust their authority figures. In this way, the person being ordered to say, kill someone, feels little responsibility in their actions since they're just "following orders."

One of the more famous psychology tests involves what level of pain you'll inflict on someone if an authority figure is commanding you to. A majority of the people involved in the experiment ended up inflicting (what would be) lethal shocks, even though the actor posing as the person being shocked would be yelling "let me out of here!" or "I have a heart condition, stop!" This is because A) the person administering the shocks couldn't see the person they were shocking, and B) the person "in charge" of the experiment was telling them to continue even if the person being shocked was protesting. You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

The results:

"He found that the percentage of participants who are prepared to inflict fatal voltages remains remarkably constant, between 61% and 66%, regardless of time or location (a popular account of Blass' results was published in Psychology Today, March/April 2002)."

And this number stays pretty constant, regardless of what country or government you live in. This means over half of the population of the world is willing to kill someone when an authority figure tells them to, period.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by Fjordor

I don't think it is lack of intelligence so much as lack of empathy.

Intelligence was in reference to how bad the cruel acts are. Tell me what animal can build an atomic bomb and precisely try to blow up a specific area for some asinine reason because of War Are Right mentality?

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Many people did such cruel thing to other only because stupid reason: "You are different than us, so that you should die". What Do you think about ethnicity? Is it a big problem or huge problem to be taken care of? Is that so important that people must kill each others because they are just not same?

I couldnt understand what those people had in their mind, really.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Oh and animals aren't blood thirsty? Humans are animals too. The female black widow kills the male counterpart while mating (sex). Many animals are cannibalistic by nature like the preying mantis. Lions sometimes kill off their cubs when deemed appropriate. During mating season, the males fight each other, often to the death for the female, like the elks. In many insect species, the female is "gangbanged" by hundreds of other males.

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I think that humans are ALWAYS worse than animals, because we are a revengeful, powerhungry, and aggresive race.

This whole train of thought goes back to the cromagnon era, where we aparantly fought over the women, the food and well maybe even a cave.

It's in our blood: Eat, sleep, fight, reproduce.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Let me put it this way. If I want a hug, I can simply go to friends house and hug his really nice and friendly dog. I better not try to hug my mom or something. Oh no, it's a crime to need humans! ^_^ Animals DO NOT mind you looking to them for some closure. A dog can sense when you're happy, or sad and they throw out all these hints to you to let you know "hey I'm here!". A cat will purr themselves to death to put a smile on your face.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by eriol

I just have had my class of conflict resolution yesterday... the docent gave decent example of brutal conflict happened in the world. He mentioned about the state rape done by Serbians toward Bosnians, or Nazi toward Jewish, Indonesians toward their local chinese.

Our education system at work. No wonder we have an entire generation growing up on the internet - our teachers are making them too scared to go outside.

Murderers roam streets, rapists are out and about, drug abusers are selling 9 year old girls to pimps. Yeah, well, thats a great selling point if youre the fucking mass media and looking to "scare" people into giving you ratings.

What about Mozart? What about Ghandi? What about Picasso?

Douglas MacArthur, possibly the greatest fighting general of the 20th century, wanted to outlaw war.

What about that, Mr Lantern?

FELIPE NO

While I agree with you, more things can be learned from historical FUCKUPS and scary events than from good, beneficial ones.

I mean, I hardly ever heard about Ghandi. But Jesus Fucking Christ, they never shut up about HITLER.

Good deeds often go unrewarded. Kind gestures are hardly ever recognized. It's always the BAD we're looking at, and it may explain why we're so vicious with one another.

I think we're worse than animals mostly because we CAN be. We're not busy enough fighting for survival anymore. We once were, and that violence to ME is excuseable.

But these days, people get REALLY BORED really QUICKLY. Idle hands are the devils playground or some shit.

(I also believe this very notion is responsible for a LOT of the depression and obesity in this country.)

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Originally Posted by Sassafrass

While I agree with you, more things can be learned from historical FUCKUPS and scary events than from good, beneficial ones.

Yeah but the title of this topic might as well be directions on how to squeeze an apple to get orange juice. Yes, you can learn a lot of stuff from not building walls to protect you from airplanes or not taxing tea - but come on.

Originally Posted by Sassafrass

I mean, I hardly ever heard about Ghandi. But Jesus Fucking Christ, they never shut up about HITLER.

And yet most people made a weird face when you mentioned the Rape of Naipan until 2 years ago.

How ya doing, buddy?

This place reeks of misanthropes. Lovely. You wouldn't have guessed it from a generation raised on Disney films.

Though, it's great, Eriol, for you to acknowledge these things, don't rebuke others who are not aware of it. (children, for example) More importantly, don't let your actions constantly revolve around those thoughts. There is a very fine line between being focused and being narrow-minded.

In regards to the animal>human debate: We're the only species painly aware of our impending deaths. That's enough trouble by itself.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by bioeng

This place reeks of misanthropes. Lovely. You wouldn't have guessed it from a generation raised on Disney films.

Though, it's great, Eriol, for you to acknowledge these things, don't rebuke others who are not aware of it. (children, for example) More importantly, don't let your actions constantly revolve around those thoughts. There is a very fine line between being focused and being narrow-minded.

In regards to the animal>human debate: We're the only species painly aware of our impending deaths. That's enough trouble by itself.

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Double Post:

Originally Posted by eriol

Many people did such cruel thing to other only because stupid reason: "You are different than us, so that you should die". What Do you think about ethnicity? Is it a big problem or huge problem to be taken care of? Is that so important that people must kill each others because they are just not same?

You have it right in the last sentence. Ethnicity doesn't matter other than being a classification. There would be cruelty and retardedness against folks even if we were all the exact same ethnicity, it would just be over who lives where (for example) or who believes what.

It's really simple, the atrocities people visit on other people are done so because, for whatever reason, the groups do not view each other as quite human. Lack of empathy, someone else said. Humans have a greater potential for horrific shit than other animals, because of our simple superiority. It might be something our species always struggles with, but that's not to say that there haven't been any improvement at all.

Patriotism is basically awful, though.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Human biology makes it such that we have animal instincs of survival along with a brain capable of conscious thought. It is clear that many animals compete with each other to survive. These fights usually involve a mate or a particular animal's territory or a asserting one's position in aparticular matter. Much human violence stems from those basic animal instincts, but the scope and scale, and the degree to which a human will go to succeed, is far greater because of our greater intelligence.

But, of course, in our modern society, it is very hard to justify violent acts because simply surviving is not a major part of a person's life. You can't justify killing someone who steals your food because food is readibly available. You can't justify killing a man who slept with your girlfriend because reproducing is not a high priority. Our instincts to do these things are obsolete in modern society; it's no longer a dog-eat-dog world.

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Originally Posted by LeHah

Douglas MacArthur, possibly the greatest fighting general of the 20th century, wanted to outlaw war.

He also wanted to invade and destroy China during the Korean conflict, which thankfully didn't happen.

Originally Posted by a lurker

It's really simple, the atrocities people visit on other people are done so because, for whatever reason, the groups do not view each other as quite human.

That's a good point. Usually groups, like Nazi's, dehumanized Jews and homosexuals in order to convince the population that it was OK to hate them. Same for slavery, blacks weren't viewed as "fully" human either.

I was speaking idiomatically.

We're just a glorified animal, and the argument that we can improve is horse shit. Human nature never changes.

edit: we're not misanthropes. Not trying to represent everyone, but I think we think this way because we are cognizant of what generations in the past have done.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by FallDragon

He also wanted to invade and destroy China during the Korean conflict, which thankfully didn't happen.

And what I'm refering to was after he was stripped of command. Whats your point?

FELIPE NO

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And what I'm refering to was after he was stripped of command. Whats your point?

That it isn't a good example for human achievement, because it was a case of talking the talking but not walking the walking. It's like repenting to Jesus on your deathbed after living your life as an atheist.

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