Sex. Before or after?

OK. So, you meet someone attractive. The two of you talk and become acquaintances. Due to good chemistry, the two of you become good friends. Eventually friendship turns into a relationship which of course, also brings into the picture, sex. At least that's how it's suppose to be according to...um...some people.

However, I have some friends that swear up and down that they've had relationships that started with a different order of events. Everything's the same in their case up to the acquaintance part. Rather than good chemistry induced friendship though, they got good chemistry induced sex instead, which led to friendship which then led to a relationship.

I guess it's possible for circumstances to unfold that way. But, my issue with the latter order of events is that you're basically applying emotional attachment to what can very easily be just a night of sex for the other person and nothing more. I suppose I just sort of think that it's a bit naive to believe that readily available sex can lead to a meaningful relationship. (Maybe that's a bit prudish and jaded of me. I dunno.)

So my question(s) to you guys is(err...are), do you think that just sex can lead to an actual and decent relationship? At what point did sex come into play in your current or past relationships? If the situation presented itself, would you engage in sexual activity with an attractive and potentially a great partner even though you don't really know much about them?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Sex factored in pretty quickly with my first girlfriend. I certainly was physically attracted to her, as she was to me. We've been going on for about a year and a half now. We certainly understand each other and have small quarells, but its nothing major. In answer to your last question, yeah I pretty much did with my current girlfriend.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I guess if you have sex with a lot of strangers, it's possible to find someone you're compatible with that way. It sounds more like it happens by accident, though.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I tend to agree with Monkey King on this one. I think it's possible, but not very likely. Especially since sex has a way of confusing things between people who don't have a very firm foundation in the first place. It's so easy to associate a person with sex instead of love if you're not careful.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I've known a few people who have started with just such a chance. My wife and I for example started with knowing each other (in school), sex, and then a long term relationship.

I was speaking idiomatically.

After, it is just what people should do, it shows how much you are willing to hold on to something that you can lose so easily with just anyone. I am surprised that people are just okay with having sex casually but then again, some people may just use it for pleasure than a sigh of love. Whatever makes you happy i guess. My opition still stays the same as; After.

How ya doing, buddy?

My opinion would also be after, though I dunno how much mine counts as I have never had a girlfriend.

But yeah trying to generate a relationship off of one night is kinda hard if I am thinking correctly. I won't deny that it can happen because obviously your first response said it did, but i do agree with the others that it is rare.

FELIPE NO

Ehh, it's not like there's a sharp demarcation though. Suppose I chat up a girl in a bar for like 2 hours discover that we love each other, or maybe that's the booze talking, who cares? Point is, now we're in love, THEN we fuck. Did we do the relationship thing forwards or backwards? Where's the cut-off on how long we have to interact before we're not strangers?

It sounds like you, Nakl, are applying some sort of arbitrary standard by which you must get to know someone to a certain indeterminate degree before it is ok to have sex with them. Declaring a relationship to exist is just about as arbitrary.

I guess I'm arguing that for any given period of time, there's always going to be a differential smaller in which the same events could occur. Suppose we lock eyes, and that's all it takes. We attain some higher state of thought and directly perceive each other.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I'd say it's highly dependent upon the individual and their past experiences. Some people view sex as the epitomy of a serious relationship while others may think it's just a thing you do with someone else and it feels really good.

Most amazing jew boots

Originally Posted by Technophile

However, I have some friends that swear up and down that they've had relationships that started with a different order of events.

[...]

So my question(s) to you guys is(err...are), do you think that just sex can lead to an actual and decent relationship?

Look at your friends' relationships and judge for yourself.

Of course you can have a decent relationship if you fuck on the first date. What sort of question is this? Most people do not find each other repulsive after having sex, I don't understand why you would have a problem with this issue. from the sound of your post, you don't quite understand why you have this issue either.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by a lurker

Look at your friends' relationships and judge for yourself.

Of course you can have a decent relationship if you fuck on the first date. What sort of question is this? Most people do not find each other repulsive after having sex, I don't understand why you would have a problem with this issue. from the sound of your post, you don't quite understand why you have this issue either.

I guess you completely blacked out during the part where I said

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my issue with the latter order of events is that you're basically applying emotional attachment to what can very easily be just a night of sex for the other person and nothing more.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Technophile

I guess you completely blacked out during the part where I said

my issue with the latter order of events is that you're basically applying emotional attachment to what can very easily be just a night of sex for the other person and nothing more.

not at all. You must've forgotten saying this:

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Rather than good chemistry induced friendship though, they got good chemistry induced sex instead, which led to friendship which then led to a relationship.

Which sounds about right to me. People don't stop developing relationships with someone once they have sex, and furthermore it's hella faulty to think the only interaction these two people have is sexual. They admit and you admit that they were friends before becoming an item; the only difference is that they are also fuckbuddies during the time. What's the disconnect here?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Technophile

do you think that just sex can lead to an actual and decent relationship?

I believe it can if you have some sort of spirtual connection from it. As in, 2 souls combining and that whole deal.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by a lurker

not at all. You must've forgotten saying this:



Which sounds about right to me. People don't stop developing relationships with someone once they have sex, and furthermore it's hella faulty to think the only interaction these two people have is sexual. They admit and you admit that they were friends before becoming an item; the only difference is that they are also fuckbuddies during the time. What's the disconnect here?

The disconnect here is that not all relationships have clearly defined or drawn lines. For example, one person could genuinly have his or her heart in the relationship, while the other person just goes along for the ride just to get the sex till they get bored. Yeah, I suppose this can happen to anyone regardless of how things start out but, I'd imagine that the chances of such a thing occuring are a lot lower if both halves have put in the time to actually get to know eachother (platonicaly) first. I really don't think that a speedy and prompt friendship produced from sex can usually be a good basis for a relationship. Maybe I'm just too pessimistic.

Another thing. You previously made a comment about how most people don't find eachother replusive right after sex. That's true I guess. But once again, if all person-A wants is a sexual encounter and isn't interested in person-B's everything else, what will happen after the sex? Person-A will pretty much find no reason to hang around. (Till maybe in the future when the desire for round-2 comes back.) Now this is all well and fine. However, if person-B went into this hoping and expecting a full out relationship that's suppose to start from that one sexual encounter, then there's the problem!

Also, if you go this route you never know what the other person's sexual history is and what little, surprise gifts you may end up with.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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once again, if all person-A wants is a sexual encounter and isn't interested in person-B's everything else, what will happen after the sex? Person-A will pretty much find no reason to hang around. (Till maybe in the future when the desire for round-2 comes back.) Now this is all well and fine. However, if person-B went into this hoping and expecting a full out relationship that's suppose to start from that one sexual encounter, then there's the problem!

Then B is deluding himself by thinking there is a relationship there, and if he is bothered by this, should probably stop the encounters. I know you're trying to paint A as opportunistic, but B is the one who's making something out of nothing, here.

Do you feel that your friends are all B?

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Also, if you go this route you never know what the other person's sexual history is and what little, surprise gifts you may end up with.

B has no one to blame but himself if he doesn't use condoms.

FELIPE NO

Also letters of the alphabet should totally not be having sex. That's how we ended up with 'w'.

I mean really guys, what. ;(

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

I know it's possible for there to be a relationship after a couple people have had sex almost right after meeting each other, especially if they're both looking for the same thing. I have to agree with lurker on the part where, if one wants the relationship, and the other just wants the sex, there will be issues, but overall if things click so well that they screw on the first date, there is definitely the option there of a good relationship.

Personally I'm not into the whole sex at first sight thing, although had some circumstances been different a few months ago, I may have been in that situation. ;p So as much as I think it's possible, I still think it's a riskier maneuver(sp?) if you're looking for something long term.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by a lurker

Then B is deluding himself by thinking there is a relationship there, and if he is bothered by this, should probably stop the encounters. I know you're trying to paint A as opportunistic, but B is the one who's making something out of nothing, here.

Do you feel that your friends are all B?

I totally agree with you here in that B is at fault and just deluded provided that A makes it clear that sex is all he or she wants which isn't always the case. Two of my friends in this situation have semi-long term relationships where the other person is in town about 5 months outta the entire year, while my other friend's in a totally differen town with her b/f so I don't really have a clear grasp on the dynamics of their relationships.

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B has no one to blame but himself if he doesn't use condoms.

Except that condoms somtimes do tear and break. Yeah, I know, it's kind of unlikely to happen, so it's kind of a petty concern when condoms come in the picture, but it's still a little worrisome.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Look, the point is this: do you know people who have had successful relationships that started off differently than your ideal? IF so, then you have proven that your ideal is not the be-all. It doesn't matter how much scorn you have for sluts or for relationships that aren't marriage-bound.

And you can have breaking condoms and STDs in relationships started by your model. Do you think that people who only have sex in the confines of a relationship don't have sex with many partners - what I'm trying to say is, do you think every relationship is a several-year long affair? Or that a cock-hungry slut will be granted some primitive immunity from STDs by only sleeping with her men once they've had a few dates? I'm not sure where you're trying to go with that whole STD thing, other than Bad Things Happen To Bad People. That's extremely judgemental of you, when you admit that you don't know a whole lot about other kinds of relationships in the first place.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by a lurker

Look, the point is this: do you know people who have had successful relationships that started off differently than your ideal?

I know people yes. But, given the circumstances, I don't know much about how good or bad their relationships are. That's why I created the thread.

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And you can have breaking condoms and STDs in relationships started by your model.

Broken condoms yes. If both partners come into the relationship clean, and stay honest and monogamous though, then there's not much room for STDs.

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Do you think that people who only have sex in the confines of a relationship don't have sex with many partners - what I'm trying to say is, do you think every relationship is a several-year long affair? Or that a cock-hungry slut will be granted some primitive immunity from STDs by only sleeping with her men once they've had a few dates?

Of course not! Look, I realize that people can change their behavior and suddenly skank it up or cool it down through different stages in their lives. The point is that if you get to know the cock hungry slut before you actually get with her, you'll at least know what you're dealing with and what risks you'll be taking on when you get with her.

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I'm not sure where you're trying to go with that whole STD thing, other than Bad Things Happen To Bad People. That's extremely judgemental of you, when you admit that you don't know a whole lot about other kinds of relationships in the first place.

All I was getting at with the STD's thing is that the sex first route, besides being emotionally risky, is riskier physically as well. Nothing more and nothing less. I don't know why you took that as me somehow thinking less of people who are more gungho when it comes to sex, or just have a more active sex life than others. It's not that I think sex is bad or that people who have lots of sex are immoral. I just think that it's a risky act. It can have a lot of extra unwated feelings attached to it or leave you wanting something that was never there if the conditions aren't clearly drawn out beforehand. It's a sensative issue. Stating that it's risky certainly does not make you some high and mighty prude who thinks lowly of the more adventurous folk.


I don't exactly feel that the "sex after" scenario is better. (If I was certain of that, I wouldn't have made this thread). I guess I have issues with both. I do feel though, that it is, at least, safer than the "sex first" scenario. (Even though you're less likely to enjoy being with as many potentially good people). I guess in that sense, some might say it evens out. Also, now that I think about it more, I'm thinking it's a strictly case by case situation. I still feel that you're more likely to be dissapointed or end up caught in something you didn't anticipate if you go with the second route. Y'know, High reward only with high risk. That whole spiel. Maybe I'm just not as bold as others.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

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I know people yes. But, given the circumstances, I don't know much about how good or bad their relationships are.

It doesn't matter if your friends are willing to subject themselves to relationships they are not quite happy in. If they were unhappy enough to leave, they would leave; otherwise, I don't know, it must be a 'successful' relationship. Any more arguing over it is a kinda creepy attempt at rationalizing your morality with this sort of thing - it sounds kinda like you want to get into a quality of relationship pissfight. Why do you want to do that?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by a lurker

It doesn't matter if your friends are willing to subject themselves to relationships they are not quite happy in. If they were unhappy enough to leave, they would leave; otherwise, I don't know, it must be a 'successful' relationship.

Depends on what you mean by "sucessful". There are lots of scenarios where someone would remain in an unfullfilling relationship. Sometimes, people will delude themselves into thinking the other person will change for the better, or love them, or that they'll grow to love them, so they stay. Some people are just afraid of being alone or single, they'll also stay. Others can fall in a sense of complacency and ,like the ones previously stated, will stay despite the unrewarding relationship. So, if by "successful" you merely mean that the relationship is still going regardless of how unrewarding it is, then I guess it is safe to call my few friends with the "sex-first relationship" relationships "successfull". Again, given the circumstances that I explained to you above, I don't really have a grasp of how happy they are with their significant others.

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Any more arguing over it is a kinda creepy attempt at rationalizing your morality with this sort of thing

How is it creepy that I'm exploring the idea of an uncoventional start to a relationship by pondering and debating about it on a message board? An example of creepy would be if I tried to inject myself into my friends' relationships by impersonating their other halves and stalking them or something. Examening the general type of relationships that theirs' seems to fall under and seeing how it'd apply to me, my life and values is perfectly fine.

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it sounds kinda like you want to get into a quality of relationship pissfight. Why do you want to do that?

First I'm judgemental, and now I wanna pissfight? Sheesh, what's with you and these outta-nowhere-assumptions? I'm just curious about the topic. I want to see how most people feel about it and if there are any members that fall into this catagory (and apperantly there are) what their experience has been like. That's all.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

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First I'm judgemental, and now I wanna pissfight? Sheesh, what's with you and these outta-nowhere-assumptions?

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Depends on what you mean by "sucessful". There are lots of scenarios where someone would remain in an unfullfilling relationship. Sometimes, people will delude themselves into thinking the other person will change for the better, or love them, or that they'll grow to love them, so they stay. Some people are just afraid of being alone or single, they'll also stay. Others can fall in a sense of complacency and ,like the ones previously stated, will stay despite the unrewarding relationship. So, if by "successful" you merely mean that the relationship is still going regardless of how unrewarding it is, then I guess it is safe to call my few friends with the "sex-first relationship" relationships "successfull". Again, given the circumstances that I explained to you above, I don't really have a grasp of how happy they are with their significant others.

Until your friends have broken up and told you all the ways you were absolutely right and they were absolutely wrong, it is downright condesending to tell me that they are probably victims at the mercy of their significant others. I'm sorry that you do not respect your friends' intelligence all that much.

I do like how you tell me my assumption was wrong right after having the quality of relationship pissfight. That's not how it normally works, sir.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by a lurker

Until your friends have broken up and told you all the ways you were absolutely right and they were absolutely wrong, it is downright condesending to tell me that they are probably victims at the mercy of their significant others. I'm sorry that you do not respect your friends' intelligence all that much.

Leave my friends out of this. It's not like you know us, so don't even attempt to come in here and try to ascertain the quality of our friendhsip based on whatever little information you've gotten. Doing so would be very hypocritical of you. After all, you're the one stating how I shouldn't "measure the quality of their relationships". What you don't seem to realize is that you keep making it a personal issue when it doesn't have to be. I mentioned my friends just to make a poin that I personaly know people who started out their relationships in this manner. That's all. You don't have to keep zooming in on them and using them as the be all and end all examples. This isn't about them. It's about relationships that start out in this manner, in general. Maybe once you realize this, the unfounded air of arrogance that you seem to be getting from me for God-knows-what-reason, will dissipate, and you won't be so judgemental yourself.

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I do like how you tell me my assumption was wrong right after having the quality of relationship pissfight. That's not how it normally works, sir.

First of all, your assumptions are wrong. For some reason, you keep thinking that I think lowly of my friends, which is hardly the case. Second, examining, discussing, heck, even debating, about a certain type of relationships is not a pissfight.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

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Leave my friends out of this.

You're the one who keeps bringing them up. I say, "if your very friends were able to start a relationship this way, then it is entirely possible to start a relationship this way." But you say "No, that's not good enough for me!" You mention your friends' experiences in the same breath as mentioning a dim kid who has no sense of self-preservation; you are drawing a very clear line and you can't fault me for calling you on it.

The point is, either it is entirely possible for such a relationship to start, or you feel that every single last one of your friends have retarded maturity and severe co-dependancy problems. It's your choice.

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Second, examining, discussing, heck, even debating, about a certain type of relationships is not a pissfight.

Too bad you aren't doing precisely that.

Jam it back in, in the dark.