[General Discussion] Difficulty in games

I, personally, love a good challenge. If a video game is difficult to finish, I will try as hard as I can to complete the game in order to get a sense of satisfaction. However, there is a limit as to how much I'll play a game. If a game takes up too much of my spare time (to the point near obsession) or the game begins to downright infuriate me, I'll put it down knowing that the game just isn't fun to play anymore.

How difficult does a game need to be before you can put it down? How easy? How important is difficulty to a game overall? Do you enjoy the challenges that video games bring, or do you mostly play for the storyline, fun, etc?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

I like a good challenge when it comes to thinking games. The old adventure games for example or the puzzle games such as ICO or Soul Reaver of today. I never did finish it but playing Myst when I was a child was pretty rewarding when ever I figured out the puzzle I was stuck on.

What I don't like is the often overused cheap AI or flawed gameplay, controls, camera and generally any other cheese tactic used intentially to aggrevate the player. I think I swore once or twice playing ET for Atari. Fall in the pit float up fall back down float up fall back down float up fall back down float up falll back down float up... Yeah, I'm not having fun here.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

An AI that makes the game difficult at specific points can be irritating. There were some fighting games I've played that did this. One of the Soul Edge/Calibur games increased the speed of the enemy once I managed to decrease their life bars to a certain amount.

In general, I prefer RPGs that are challenging. I don't necessarily want to struggle through a game, but I also don't like simple puzzles or battles that are too easy. A final boss that requires real strategy rather than high levels is always interesting.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I like challenging games. I don't like games that are just "hard". A challenging game is one that requires you to put your brain and/or reflexes to work. A "hard" game doesn't necessarily challenge you...it just puts you against ridiculous odds without any sense of direction and expects you to figure out how to exploit the game in your favor to win. Generally those games are the ones where you can do crappy at one point and then great the next time you play it without changing how you play at all, essentially boiling it down to luck.

I think a game such as Ninja Gaiden has a good level of challenge. Sometimes it does seem a bit based on luck, but overall it's difficult enough to keep you on your toes without being extremely frustrating (at least to me), and requires you to understand the game mechanics in order to do well at the game. I actually can't think of any other examples at the moment...but in any case, I'd rather have a game that's too easy than too hard, but I'd prefer it comes in between the two.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by JackyBoy

I like a good challenge when it comes to thinking games. The old adventure games for example or the puzzle games such as ICO or Soul Reaver of today.

I absolutely loved Soul Reaver. It definitely had some of the best puzzles I've seen in any game. They were difficult at times, but logical. I was extremely disappointed that the block puzzles and bosses (my favourite elements of the game) were removed for Soul Reaver 2 because people were too stupid to figure them out.

The last few games that frustrated me with their difficulty were Trauma Center, Ouendan, and Trackmania Sunrise. Over time I've found games to be getting much easier, but there are always a few to remind you of how much you're being babied by most other games.

I was speaking idiomatically.

I like a challenge, but not one brought on by a game's limitations. If it's something like Resident Evil, where I'm fighting the controls as well as the bad guys, the game will generally have a short life in my system. Likewise, bad cameras, sloppy controls, poorly explained objectives aren't challenging...They're poor game design. Dying really doesn't matter in ones like that.

My ideal type of challenge is something that's in plain view, but it's always a question of whether or not I have what it takes to make it to the end. Old platformers like the original Castlevania series (none of the easy-ass Metrovania boredom) and Kid Icarus were ideal at this. RPG's where I come up just a little short in a fight, then spend 15-30 minutes rearranging equipment and still barely win are rewarding (some of the later fights in the Nippon Ichi games are particularly memorable, presuming you haven't over-leveled...One of those situations where every move counts and there are a ton of little aspects to keep track of). The Panic Mode of Super Buster Brothers was particularly memorable and older games with progressive difficulty (Galaga, Burger Time) are appealing. And I still wish I could go back to that first time playing through to the end of Super Punch Out...It seems really easy now, but it was both fun and challenging learning to beat the later opponents. And also, I'll admit I'm no good at schmups, but I welcome the chance to come back and keep playing just to get a LITTLE bit farther every time I play.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

I like games that give me challenges where I can tackle the challenge multiple ways and each way is uniquely challenging yet not impossible. It probably should take me a few tries to get it right, but it shouldn't take up all afternoon or all night to get the fight. Thats about where I draw the line at difficulty, I don't like shitty puzzles that take forever or ridiculous mazes that go on forever, I like challenges I can slice'n dice and carve up.

FELIPE NO

Well, I like a good challenge, as long as it's not cheap...and as long as it's challenging for the right reason. As GoldfishX said, if the challenge is due to poor controls or some design flaw, that's no fun at all (although I never had much of a problem with the controls in the Resident Evil games, personally).

What I like is a game that presents what may seem like an insurmountable challenge at first, but one that can clearly be overcome by improving your own skill at the game. Good examples of this would be games like Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox, or Devil May Cry (well, the first one anyway...the only one I've ever played).

It's funny, I remember reading the reviews of Ninja Gaiden, and being somewhat dismayed by how difficult everyone was saying the game was. I was afraid I was just going to get my ass handed to me and get discouraged with the game. As it turns out, while it is pretty brutal early on, I actually found the game became easier the further along I got. It's actually not a tremendously difficult game, but rather a game that requires you to actually improve your skill in playing it. It seems a lot of modern games don't really require much skill at all...like after you play it for 5 minutes, you're as good at it as you'll ever be, and beating the game is just a matter of playing it long enough to get to the end, rather than actually presenting you with something that you'll need to actually make an effort to overcome.

Mind you, not all games that are easy are bad. I've played some very enjoyable games that were fairly easy...as long as it's fun, and doesn't get boring, then it's ok.

Most amazing jew boots

I prefer games that have a bit of a challenge, but as long as that challenge is based on skill and not statistics. Action games, puzzle games, and some adventure games are almost solely dependent on the player's level of skill, whereas games like RPGs require little more than the patience to sit for hours, leveling up your character.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

My 2 favorite challenging types of games actually lie on extreme sides of the spectrum, where the challenge is either in the gameplay (learning curve)(F-zero GX), or level design (skill/memorization)(Super Monkey Ball). Both games are among my favorites partially because of the challenge. I also love games like DMC that manage to "interweave" both together, like Devil May Cry.

I hated the nanotech upgrading done in R&C2 and in the subsequent games(although it was balanced out in Deadlocked, as the bad guys would "level up" as you progress very smoothly, almost making the idea of upgrades useless (this is a good thing)), which is why R&C 1 was always the hardest for me. I hate it when you can get better at a game by not actually improving your skill, and instead "level up" to become stronger, that's just tedious.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I hate challenges that are hard just because they are time consuming or based on dumb luck. I played Contra: Shattered Soldier for the PS2, and compared to the original Contra, it's hard for different reasons. There are several times you can die in C:SS due to something just falling on one half of the screen and instantly taking it out, or you have to jump across a gap right away, because it gets closed off after a second. In the original Contra, you'd see the enemy coming, and have time to prepare. The trick was usually timing a jump to not get hit by the enemy you saw coming. That is basing the difficulty on the player's precision. If a game has poor conrols or a poor camera, it is hard to get good precision, and the difficulty that comes with it isn't a result of a player not being skilled enough.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by NES Oldskooler

I absolutely loved Soul Reaver. It definitely had some of the best puzzles I've seen in any game. They were difficult at times, but logical. I was extremely disappointed that the block puzzles and bosses (my favourite elements of the game) were removed for Soul Reaver 2 because people were too stupid to figure them out.

It's not that people were too stupid for the block puzzles - they were too bored by them. For most of us a little variety is always welcome. When I finish a box puzzle and know that the next puzzle will almost inevitably involve pushing, dragging and stacking boxes - again -, I won't be looking forward to it, but dreading it because it has to be solved in order for me to progress, but it won't be fun.

On topic: I have neither the time nor the inclination to invest hours in figuring out how to defeat a boss, beat a level and so on. (Exceptions prove the rule.) Moreover, I'm one of the few wusses who actually like easy games. I get easily frustrated by hard sections, and when I'm fed up and turn the game off, I find it very hard to bring myself to pick up where I've left - somehow my motivation suffers a great deal, and at the end of the day I'll have seen only half of the game I paid full price for.

I tremendously enjoyed Tomb Raider Legend, for example. I'm aware that many found it too easy, but I prefer to play through a game in a short time (without smashing my controller) and frequently replay it than to spend an enormous amount of time just to figure out where the programmers hid the friggin' keyhole the key I just found is for.

By the way, I appreciate games that give me the chance to level up more than I need to progress - in order to get so powerful that the rest of the game is just a breeze. It's a strange motivation, but it's a motivation nonetheless

Zorro

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I normally play for story, so i will do my darndest to finish a game for the sake of seeing the ending. For me to put down a game due to difficulty, it takes a certain level of retarded difficulty. The only instance i can think of off the top of my head is FFX2. I found it difficult due it's stupid battle system. I'll probably pick it up and finish it one of these days.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by Helloween

I normally play for story, so i will do my darndest to finish a game for the sake of seeing the ending.

Me too, but that's what cheats are for

Zorro

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Challenge is overrated.

As long as the game itself is fun, it's fine enough for me. Game length is irrevelant. Then again, I am a strange one.

I hate those games that are hard just because. You know what I'm talking about, the ones with cheap AI and stuff.

How ya doing, buddy?

I don't think that many hard games that try to be hard are hard because of cheap or flawed game design, actually. Ninja Gaiden (XBOX) is an excellent example that many have already brought up in this topic alone.

But you're right. New Super Mario Bros is easy as heck, but it's my absolute favorite DS game, and one of the best platformers I've played in a LONG time.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Challenges are good in games, so long as the challenge isn't because of some crappy AI or game physics that the development team couldn't be bothered to iron out. This really annoys me in games, and if my progress is hindered by these things then that particular game tends not to be played again.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

It really depends on my level of concentration that day, and the amount of time I have to dedicate to it. There have been times when the difficulty of a game have put me off for a week and then kept me hooked for a month until it has been solved. As for an easy game, I don't mind that in the slightest if I'm going back over a game, but if it's the first time of playing then I need something challenging to keep my interest.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Challenge is always good as long as it's not in the form of win.exe for the AI. And yes, I agree that I have yet to see a single RPG that had a challenging final boss in the sense of strategy required instead of high levels. Actually, almost all RPGs are beatable easily with high levels.

In a different sense, Mario Kart is "challenging" because of the Win.exe on the higher levels. They're obviously speeding faster than you could ever go at certain times or they have godly acceleration, or just immense luck.

Fighting games also suffer from the win.exe that does not constitute a challenge. All in all, godly AI does not constitute challenge.

The more challenging it is (again, excluding win.exe), the more I am inclined to play it.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Fighting game ai becomes downright frustrating in any game, especially due to most fighting games' increasing difficulty slope. Most notably, in the Neogeo fighters when the last bosses would read your input and perfectly counter your move with the move that is ideal for the situation.

Take for example Sissy from Power Instinct Matrimelee. The sword move will negate just about every jump attempt. The hopping frog drops your guard if it merely touches you and then from there she'll get in range and unleash a highly damaging kick metal combo. Abubo comes out whenever you are half a screen or less from her. etc. The perfect move for every situation.

Another related example, Jinpachi from Tekken 5. You can't dodge double unblockable fireballs at close range, and the dark stunner move negates anything and everything and can be used indefinitely as long as Jinpachi is not doing anything else.

This doesn't have to happen with just boss characters either. If the computer reads your inputs, then difficulty is maximum, as it's very hard to win against an opponent with an advantage like that, even if you try using save states.


Most RPGs though have never been too hard to get by.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Any game where I come close to dieing is usually the best choice for me. I am usually good enough at games that at the hard parts, I come a great deal close to dieing, or I am just completely slaughtered, no, I just barely died.

Fighters....bleh...

But RPGs and Puzzle based games, now those are something different. I really like Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past because of how challenging it was. Same with Star Ocean 3. THe puzzles were really obscure a great deal of the time, and I just get a good feeling figuring out what the hell the clue you found was talking about...but then there are a few that just make you feel like a dumbass....

How ya doing, buddy?

Challenge is essential in almost every game, but it depends on the genre.

There's no point having a difficult RPG, but a difficult action game will lengthen it's life, even if the story's short.

Most amazing jew boots

I enjoy a sense of accomplishment. Without challenge, that sense of accomplishment is hard to create.

Currently, I'm playing SW Legos 2, and I'm on the "Rescue the Princess" level. I have played through it 3 times, and cannot find a way to complete the level. I've searched every nook, cranny, etc. Fighting the imperials is challenging, but trying to find a way out of this level is frustrating. Whatever the solution turns out to be (I will check a FAQ because I don't believe in wasting my time) it will not, at this point, lead to a sense of accomplishment. Also, it will definitely not be "fun" to play through the level a 4th time, either.

Most amazing jew boots