FFShrine

Yo!,

If anyone is a part of the FFShrine forums, could you please tell them it is NOT okay to illegally upload the Video Games Live album.

This thread came up in our Google Alerts:
Final Fantasy Shrine Forums

As one of the posters said... it's not like we're charging a lot of money.
You'll see some game concerts charge $35+ for thier albums. And lets not even start with the outrageous costs of IMPORTS! UGH! We keep the price as reasonable as humanly possible (under $14 on Amazon... $10 on iTunes FOR 18 songs!!!).

But the worst part of illegally downloading game music that is made available at retail is that none of the record companies or distributors out there ever want to release game music because the "paid for" numbers are always poor and they know that a lot of hardcore game music fans won't bother financially supporting the industry and genre they love.

As a game composer TRYING to convince all these companies that game music is loved and people are passionate about it (especially if the price is NOT ridiculous)... I can tell you that it sucks when they constantly say that game music fans aren't willing to support us.



If something isn't commerically available.... I personally have no problem with folks downloading it. It's when stuff is commerically available (especially at a reasonable price) that it gets to be something that I think people need to really stop and think twice about.

Thanks! Anyone else agree/disagree or have any comments/discussion points?

And again... can someone please go into the FFShrine forms and have them take down the link (and please don't download it before you tell them).



Tommy

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Tommy, the person who runs FFShrine is a transvestite (not a problem) who is a self-admitted pedophile (problem). We try not to mingle with them very much.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Didn't it also try to buy Gamingforce from Bobo?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

It's been removed.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

Anyone else agree/disagree or have any comments/discussion points?

While the original right holder or somebody in a closer position is definitely entitled for posting a message like yours, and it's no doubt illegal downloading will bring a potential damage to both record companies and artists, some people (like me) would end up purchasing far less albums if they didn't download anything. Not to dis you, but I'm actually totally indifferent to VGL, let alone buying a concert CD/DVD. I'd definitely be curious about Distant World, Press Start, and to a lessor extent, Chris Huelsbeck's symphonic concert and Play!, but for whatever reasons not about VGL at all. A download link could have be a nice chance for me to turn my attention to what's overlooked, if I had tried to download it.

Again, Tommy, your stance is totally understable. You and VGL should be protected. There is nothing I disagree with in your statement, even if with my different view on file-sharing in general than yours, my final conclusion is to continue to download whatever interests me.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Do you think this is the right venue for this conversation?

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Originally Posted by Taisai

While the original right holder or somebody in a closer position is definitely entitled for posting a message like yours, and it's no doubt illegal downloading will bring a potential damage to both record companies and artists, some people (like me) would end up purchasing far less albums if they didn't download anything. Not to dis you, but I'm actually totally indifferent to VGL, let alone buying a concert CD/DVD. I'd definitely be curious about Distant World, Press Start, and to a lessor extent, Chris Huelsbeck's symphonic concert and Play!, but for whatever reasons not about VGL at all. A download link could have be a nice chance for me to turn my attention to what's overlooked, if I had tried to download it.

Again, Tommy, your stance is totally understable. You and VGL should be protected. There is nothing I disagree with in your statement, even if with my different view on file-sharing in general than yours, my final conclusion is to continue to download whatever interests me.

With all due respect... I feel your logic is a little flawed for one main and very important reason...

The fact is... all commerically released CD's have 30 second sample clips of every single track. More than enough to make a decision on your purchase being worth it. Because of this, I don't think you would be right justifying that you download things illegally just so you can hear them.

In essence, what you are saying is that it is perfectly okay to walk into any music store and steal the CD right off the shelf. If you happen to like it, maybe you'll go back and give them the money. If not, you'll just keep it or throw it away. I understand the arguement of not wanting to waste your money on something you might not like, but that's why all music stores have listening stations and why paid digital downloads have samples of every song.

In my view, it seems that younger people feel absolutely no remorse for stealing just because it's digital and on the internet. I don't believe they see a connection at all to a physical product, therefore they feel it's okay and acceptable to steal from someone else.

Maybe people need to stop fooling themselves a bit stop and stop trying to convince themselves that what they're doing isn't wrong.

Just my thoughts.

I can honestly say that I've never downloaded anything illegally... and proud of it.

I've also never car-jacked anyone (except in Grand Theft Auto).



Tommy

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

With all due respect... I feel your logic is a little flawed for one main and very important reason...

The fact is... all commerically released CD's have 30 second sample clips of every single track. More than enough to make a decision on your purchase being worth it. Because of this, I don't think you would be right justifying that you download things illegally just so you can hear them.

30 seconds are almost never enough to make a value judgement on an entire song. Songs go through different stages, they have good parts and bad parts (or good parts and not quite so good parts), and often the good parts are only effective in context. A better way to give a taster of an album is to provide a stream of several full length tracks. Even then the buyer is making a gamble, but they have the guarantee of liking at least part of what they've bought.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Kolba

30 seconds are almost never enough to make a value judgement on an entire song. Songs go through different stages, they have good parts and bad parts (or good parts and not quite so good parts), and often the good parts are only effective in context. A better way to give a taster of an album is to provide a stream of several full length tracks. Even then the buyer is making a gamble, but they have the guarantee of liking at least part of what they've bought.

Yes, I agree... but this already happens as well. Aside from specific game music related internet radio stations (AOL, etc.) there are also things like Pandora. Here is a list of the some of the top video game radio stations:
Video Game Music Radio Stations - Free Internet Radio
(There are 53 just on this list alone!)

So listening to game music as a stream already occurs... therefore once again making it not okay to blatently steal something from someone else.

In this day and age there are also many online reviews of products (both professional and by fellow purchasers) to further give you specific information. Especially at places like Amazon.com and iTunes.

I don't believe there is any current circumstance that exists that would justify stealing from another person. Because in the end... it's still stealing without permission, it's taking from others what is not yours to take, it's ruining the opportunity for the genre to ever grow AND at its most basic level... it's against the law.

Tommy

Jam it back in, in the dark.

As interesting as it is to read a discussion on this subject that actually involves someone who's losing money as a result of piracy, having it on a forum that was entirely built on illegal filesharing is rather ironic.

Although I agree with Tommy, if something is commercially available you should pay for it, unless you have the bollocks to walk into a shop and steal the actual cd. Thievery is far too easy these days which is why so many kids think it's ok.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

The questions on whether video game music would be even CLOSE to as popular as now without its complete piratization in the past, need to be asked. Uprooting vgm from its heritage and the beginnings - free online availability - and commercializing it has more or less ruined all quality in the past five years. The dream is dead.

This is an interesting topic, and it should be born in mind that Tommy and many others involved would make ZERO money for their wonderful efforts, if someone hadn't downloaded the music of the games where the music comes from and hadn't come to the concerts to see the entertaining shows. That's where they got the incentive to buy the cd of the show in the first place.

Maybe a thread split from this to talk about the subject?

[I personally don't care about VGL's song selection (especially on the cds), so at least there's one person who won't be downloading.]

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

And here we are again, setting 'theft' and 'copyright infringement' on the same level, which these two terms are clearly not.

How ya doing, buddy?

Of course not. Copyright infringement is a much more serious crime ($62,500 per song) than mere larceny (about <$100 per CD stolen)!

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Kishin

The questions on whether video game music would be even CLOSE to as popular as now without its complete piratization in the past, need to be asked. Uprooting vgm from its heritage and the beginnings - free online availability - and commercializing it has more or less ruined all quality in the past five years. The dream is dead.

This is an interesting topic, and it should be born in mind that Tommy and many others involved would make ZERO money for their wonderful efforts, if someone hadn't downloaded the music of the games where the music comes from and hadn't come to the concerts to see the entertaining shows. That's where they got the incentive to buy the cd of the show in the first place.

Maybe a thread split from this to talk about the subject?

[I personally don't care about VGL's song selection (especially on the cds), so at least there's one person who won't be downloading.]

With all due respect...

I completly disagree that "comercializing" video game music has ruined it. I'm guessing that this kind of statement and thinking comes from more of a "hardcore" perspective... and I can appreciate that. For example, I've spoken to some hardcores who are genuinely annoyed that game music is no longer such an "underground" thing as it once was. Its these same folks who generally despise the fact that "casuals" enjoy listening to songs like One-Winged Angel and that all game composers who were not born in Japan are talentless hacks.



Some people may like to pretend that all game music before the mid 90's was absoutely amazing and all modern game music sucks. I say this... there was just as much (if not more) more annoying game music in the 80's & 90's as there is today (and I should know... I made some of it!).



Every game can't be 5 stars in the music dept. every time, and each era (past and modern) has in fact had its great scores and not-so-great scores. Personally... some of my favorite game music came from the 80's & 90's. But other franchises like God of War, Halo, Kingdom Hearts, Warcraft, Mass Effect, Bioshock, Shadow of the Colossus, Beyond Good & Evil, Afrika and many more are just as significant. Maybe not to everyone on a personal level. But it would be somewhat ignorant to dismiss them as "low quality" because of "commercialization" (i.e. successful and made more available to more of a mainstream audience).

In regards to the second paragraph stating that we would make "ZERO" money if people didn't illegally download and steal our material... this is just not true (it's only true among the "hardcore" thieves who will never pay for anything digital anyway). I have hundreds upon hundreds of studies and paid marketing research that says the EXACT opposite. Just VGL alone (along with the local promoters) spends millions of dollars each year on TV, online, newspapers, in-store retail, radio, etc., etc. to get the word out. Facebook ads (for example) have an almost $8 to $1 buy to spend ration alone. That means for every $1 that is spent on Facebook (in regards to video game music) it turns into an $8 profit. And we SPECIFICALLY do NOT target hardcore gamers. We go after families, non-gamers, grandparents, etc. Over $1 million dollars was spent on creating the VGL PBS Special that went over the airways to approximately 90 million people in the U.S. 80% of viewers which do not regularly play video games. Yeah we commercialized it... and the non-gaming parents, grandparents and kids loved it.

Watch this and tell me if you think the commericalization of game music has destoyed the quality of our field: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u_EWzmvI8E&feature=fvw

And make sure to read the hundreds of positive comments left by non-gaming moms, dads and grandparents.

And then take a look at the PBS YouTube Channel under TOP RATED where you'll find the 2 VGL Trailers at #'s 8 & 9. (link: http://www.youtube.com/user/PBS#p/u) This is out of more than 3600+ videos they have posted over the years. And then try making an arguement that "commericalization" is bad for game music and the quality is getting worse.

Millions of non-gaming people around the world can listen to something like that and have a greater understanding, knowledge, appreciation and most of all... RESPECT for the art of game music. And it was because of the "commercialization" that made it possible. If not for that, a few thousand people would have their illegally downloaded original CIV IV Baba Yeta .mp3 and all of your non-gaming friends making fun of you and calling you a nerd/geek/loser because you listen to it (without ever giving it a chance).

And again... let me state... I personally don't have a problem with anyone downloading music that isn't currently commercially available. A lot of my early music can ONLY really be heard this way... and I totally appreciate people spreading it around, putting it up on YouTube, etc. But NOT when something is put up on the market for sale.

I respect that you don't like the video game song selection on the Video Games Live CD, but I'm just curious to know... if you don't like music from Megaman, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Halo, Mario, Zelda, Warcraft, God of War, Sonic the Hedgehog and Castlevania.... what the heck DO you like!?!?




Tommy



========================================



Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by LiquidAcid

And here we are again, setting 'theft' and 'copyright infringement' on the same level, which these two terms are clearly not.

Websters describes "theft" as "the act of stealing" although I'm very aware of the United States Supreme Court case Dowling v. United States (1985) that bootleg phonorecords did not constitute stolen property and that "...interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud."

But for this discussion, saying "Can someone please tell the FFShrine to stop infringing on my copyrights!" just doesn't have the same pizzaz, punch and appeal.



T.T.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

To clarify something: I own a original copy of the first volume of VGL.

Two reasons why I bought it:
(i) A rip was available on the net, so I could sample the album. I don't like buying the pig in a poke, especially when I can't predict at all how the listening experience might turn out. If I know the arranger/composer from other works, I can do prediction to some extent. Wasn't the case back then.
(ii) I liked the majority of the album's tracks.

This also influenced my decision to purchase two copies of Christopher Tin's original album 'Calling All Dawns', one for me, one for my mom. But not before sampling the album for a prolonged time. And yes, you guessed it, from a rip someone posted on the net.

Without condition (i) I wouldn't have bought a large amount of album in my extensive collection. For me filesharing increases sales figures, because people have easier access to a much wider range of music. The probability that I might find something that pleases my ear increases with the range of available music.

Of course this also spreads the money that people spend on music and that's probably what the major record labels don't like at all: People are no longer 'restricted' to the music that your hometown's record shop is selling, or what the mass media are playing all day long (did I mention that I have no TV at my home?). We see (formerly) big artists complaning about decreasing sales and everyone blames filesharing on the net. I instead suspect that people just found better alternatives there and are now buying different music.
I used to buy every album that 'Meat Loaf' released, but I stopped after 'Bad Out of Hell III'. Why? I found better alternatives with the help of the net (I can't thank blah enough for recommending Kalafina to me).

So why haven't I purchased the second volume, which we're talking about here? Because condition (ii) isn't satisfied. I already explained this on VGMdb, but I'm going to repeat it here:
- Constant cheering is a no-go for me. I want to hear the music that the band/orchestra/soloists are playing. I don't want to hear the audience throughout the whole track.
- The arrangement are weak and emotionless. Thomas Böcker's Symphonic series has raised the bar for arrangements a lot and I honestly don't see any improvement here compared to Volume 1.
- Too much copy and paste from Volume 1

Just stating my personal opinion here.

FELIPE NO

I only listen to vgm from games that I've bought and played. In a lot of cases the quality of the music was a deciding factor in paying for the game. In buying the game did I not pay already to enjoy its music (and graphics, and gameplay, and...) at my leisure?

I know this doesn't apply to live and arranged soundtracks.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

With all due respect...

I completly disagree that "comercializing" video game music has ruined it. I'm guessing that this kind of statement and thinking comes from more of a "hardcore" perspective... and I can appreciate that. For example, I've spoken to some hardcores who are genuinely annoyed that game music is no longer such an "underground" thing as it once was. Its these same folks who generally despise the fact that "casuals" enjoy listening to songs like One-Winged Angel and that all game composers who were not born in Japan are talentless hacks.

"commercializing" game music only fuels the piracy. The people you're having a problem with are those 'casuals' who spend hundreds of dollars on games each month yet see game music as a free bonus and are only willing to pay for live concerts and events.

Also, the majority of game music composers still hold no rights to their music, so I assume they condone the sharing (sharing to some, stealing to others) of their works and are happy for as little as fan mails and positive feedback.

I can't speak for anybody, though, and I totally respect your stance. It's just the target audience of VGL that has to be sensitized for these issues, not this place.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Originally Posted by LiquidAcid

So why haven't I purchased the second volume, which we're talking about here? Because condition (ii) isn't satisfied. I already explained this on VGMdb, but I'm going to repeat it here:
- Constant cheering is a no-go for me. I want to hear the music that the band/orchestra/soloists are playing. I don't want to hear the audience throughout the whole track.
- The arrangement are weak and emotionless. Thomas Böcker's Symphonic series has raised the bar for arrangements a lot and I honestly don't see any improvement here compared to Volume 1.
- Too much copy and paste from Volume 1

Just stating my personal opinion here.

Yo,

It's a live album which is the companion to the live show and DVD/Blu-Ray. The cheering and excitement are part of the draw for a lot of people (especially ones who like the energy and excitement of a live experience as opposed to same old rehashed studio arrangements). So if you don't like live recordings, then I understand that you probably wouldn't like this album. That being said, your explanation of hearing the "audience throughout the entire track" just isn't correct. Once the couple of seconds of excitement and cheering at the very beginning of the song are through (mostly before the songs start) it is very much on the same quality level as any studio recorded album. The link I gave above of the Civ IV music I think is a perfect example.

Weeks were spent in the studio getting the mixes just right. Separate ones for the album, for the TV show and for the DVD/Blu-Ray. But again... everyone is different.

In regards to your subjective comment/opinion about "weak arrangements", that's cool, it's your opinion. I'm not going to try and change your mind. If you think the Civ IV music link above is "weak" then clearly we're on different pages musically... and that's okay. I would never expect people to have the same exact music tastes.

Your final comment about cutting and pasting from Volume One is also incorrect. Again, I'll use the above Civ IV as an example (totally new arrangment, singers, vocals, etc.). Also brand new to the second album was Mega Man, StarCraft II, Chrono Trigger/Cross, Lament of the Highborne, FF7 One Winged Angel, Sonic the Hedgehog, Mass Effect, Mario, Zelda and Martin Leung's FF piano arrangment and Mario piece (which btw, were recorded in a studio for the album... not live). That's 12 brand new songs right there! The same pieces that appeared on the first album (God of War, Advent Rising & Castlevania) were brand new recordings... and mostly becuase the album is a companion piece to the DVD & Blu-Ray.

Rock On.

Tommy


==========================================


Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Kolba

I only listen to vgm from games that I've bought and played. In a lot of cases the quality of the music was a deciding factor in paying for the game. In buying the game did I not pay already to enjoy its music (and graphics, and gameplay, and...) at my leisure?

I know this doesn't apply to live and arranged soundtracks.

It's a valid point, but the answer to the question is "not really". When game (or film or television) music is released for a CD an entirely different process is used, money is spent on re-arranging, editing, mixing, mastering, album art, additional or extra tracks, re-mixes, etc. It's very rare that a game or film soundtrack is the same exact thing as the game or movie you bought. VERY rare. It also has it's own marketing budgets, distribution channels, etc.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most game composers (unlike the film and television industry) do not make royalties on the game and in a lot of cases they give up certain money just to keep a percentage of the soundtrack rights in hopes that people will support them.

Tommy


===================================


Additional Spam:

Originally Posted by Teioh

"commercializing" game music only fuels the piracy. The people you're having a problem with are those 'casuals' who spend hundreds of dollars on games each month yet see game music as a free bonus and are only willing to pay for live concerts and events.

Also, the majority of game music composers still hold no rights to their music, so I assume they condone the sharing (sharing to some, stealing to others) of their works and are happy for as little as fan mails and positive feedback.

I can't speak for anybody, though, and I totally respect your stance. It's just the target audience of VGL that has to be sensitized for these issues, not this place.

I'm not having a problem with anyone. In fact the only people I've seen pirate our products are the hardcore game music fans. Lets be clear, 50% of the crowds we get at Video Games Live rarely even play video games. They probably have kids, friends or boyfriends who do, but don't necessarily play games themselves (although after seeing our show they definitely start to take a bigger interest). We sell hundreds of albums, DVD's & Blu-Rays at our live shows... always. If what you said above was the case... this wouldn't happen. All the casuals would just go home and try finding it for free. Again, we've done a TON of market research on who comes to Video Games Live, who bought the tickets and why... etc., etc... I can't speak for other game concerts and I'm sure because of the nature of those shows, the audiences are very different and not as mainstream I would imagine (which is TOTALLY fine and awesome... just not what I'm interested in accomplishing as my goals).

It's not an entirely correct statement to say that most game composers don't hold rights to their music (Mitsuda-san for example owns all the music to Chrono Cross). In most cases these days the composer will try to keep some kind of the music publishing or bonus percentage paid outside of the video game (which, unfortunately for illegal downloads is never much).

As I stated previously we all love the idea of people hearing our music and passing it around for free... as long as it's not for sale. But a pat on the back and a positive e-mail doesn't pay the bills. I'm very good friends with many Japanese composers and most of them make very little money unfortunately. They think it's funny how everyone around the world thinks they are big rock stars in Japan and make tons of cash. It just isn't the case. And I'm speaking about the BIGGEST Japanese names... names you all know and love (and I'm sure have illegally downloaded their music). j/k



Seriously though... I'm not trying to convince people here to change their minds. Quite frankly, given the circumstances of this particular forum... I somewhat feel like a hen in a den of wolves regarding this subject.

And I'm not trying to be preachy or have some kind of "holier-than-thou" attitude (although I understand it may come off as such). I just thought that the folks here may be interested in some information that may be contrary to their current beliefs and behavoirs. It's all good.

We all have a great understanding, respect and love for game music and that's the most important thing.

Thanks for listening.

Tommy

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

It's a live album which is the companion to the live show and DVD/Blu-Ray. The cheering and excitement are part of the draw for a lot of people (especially ones who like the energy and excitement of a live experience as opposed to same old rehashed studio arrangements). So if you don't like live recordings, then I understand that you probably wouldn't like this album. That being said, your explanation of hearing the "audience throughout the entire track" just isn't correct. Once the couple of seconds of excitement and cheering at the very beginning of the song are through (mostly before the songs start) it is very much on the same quality level as any studio recorded album. The link I gave above of the Civ IV music I think is a perfect example.

I like recordings of live performed music, but I don't like when events are more and more reduced into a mere 'show'. Primary reason why you will never see me attending any of the VGL events. For me arranged VGM belongs into a concert hall with the main focus on the musical aspect. No fancy lightshows, no big screens showing game scenes and no 'games' to get the audience involved.

So yeah, I'm clearly not the audience you're targeting.

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

In regards to your subjective comment/opinion about "weak arrangements", that's cool, it's your opinion. I'm not going to try and change your mind. If you think the Civ IV music link above is "weak" then clearly we're on different pages musically... and that's okay. I would never expect people to have the same exact music tastes.

IMHO the Civ4 version of Christopher Tin's album is the most perfect one. Adding or removing anything kills the song, which for me lives from the interplay between the male vocalist and chorus. Adding more solo vocalist destroys this balance for me and therefore makes the arrangement inferior to the already existing ones.
This year's Symphonic Legends' arrangement of 'Aquatic Ambience' lived only from the interaction between strings and piano. And the balance was perfect. Just adding more and more components to an arrangement doesn't automagically make it better...

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

Your final comment about cutting and pasting from Volume One is also incorrect. Again, I'll use the above Civ IV as an example (totally new arrangment, singers, vocals, etc.). Also brand new to the second album was Mega Man, StarCraft II, Chrono Trigger/Cross, Lament of the Highborne, FF7 One Winged Angel, Sonic the Hedgehog, Mass Effect, Mario, Zelda and Martin Leung's FF piano arrangment and Mario piece (which btw, were recorded in a studio for the album... not live). That's 12 brand new songs right there! The same pieces that appeared on the first album (God of War, Advent Rising & Castlevania) were brand new recordings... and mostly becuase the album is a companion piece to the DVD & Blu-Ray.

Yes, but new recordings just don't cut it for me. That's what I'd like to see on some compilation album, like Yasunori Mitsuda's 'Colours of Light', which has most of the tracks remastered. And IMHO the CT/CT track was very disappointing, it sounded like it was 'ported' straight out of the OST.

And I'm well aware why this is done: To make segments of an arrangements instantly recognizable for the 'mainstream' audience. VGL is never going to include an experimental Metroid arrangement like the one from Symphonic Legends.

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

I'm not having a problem with anyone. In fact the only people I've seen pirate our products are the hardcore game music fans.

You've seen them? Sorry, but I'd like to see a concrete proof that these so called 'hardcore game music fans' pirate your releases more than the rest. What with this 'hardcore' term anyway? Maybe the 'casual game music fan' is just better at hiding the fact that he also illegally grabbed your releases from the net?

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

Lets be clear, 50% of the crowds we get at Video Games Live rarely even play video games. They probably have kids, friends or boyfriends who do, but don't necessarily play games themselves (although after seeing our show they definitely start to take a bigger interest). We sell hundreds of albums, DVD's & Blu-Rays at our live shows... always. If what you said above was the case... this wouldn't happen. All the casuals would just go home and try finding it for free. Again, we've done a TON of market research on who comes to Video Games Live, who bought the tickets and why... etc., etc... I can't speak for other game concerts and I'm sure because of the nature of those shows, the audiences are very different and not as mainstream I would imagine (which is TOTALLY fine and awesome... just not what I'm interested in accomplishing as my goals).

And I'm having a big problem with this statement. Massive market research always means that one is after enlarging the possible audience, making the whole event more mainstream. I oppose this trend, since this always involves lowing the quality of the whole event. We've seen this trend in the video game sector, or also in the movie sector. Games and movies are more and more 'dumbed down' to target a larger and larger market.

At this point I like to quote Thomas Böcker:

Quote:

Basically, I want to achieve something, I want to set new standards. I think this is what makes us different from a lot of the competition: that we are not a purely commercial production, but are aiming for artistic freedom. This is luxury, yes, but it was a long and hard road until there. No question that we are also following rules of the market; after all, we want to entertain and the success at the box office is necessary in order to continue with the series. However, with the loyal and open-minded fans that we have, we can try some experiments and prove to the world of orchestral music lovers that video game music is much more than movie soundtrack rip-offs and superficial entertainment.

Original interview here: Game Music :: Interview with Symphonic Legends Producer (September 2010)

I'm deeply grateful that Böcker is opposing this sad market trend.

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico

As I stated previously we all love the idea of people hearing our music and passing it around for free... as long as it's not for sale. But a pat on the back and a positive e-mail doesn't pay the bills. I'm very good friends with many Japanese composers and most of them make very little money unfortunately. They think it's funny how everyone around the world thinks they are big rock stars in Japan and make tons of cash. It just isn't the case. And I'm speaking about the BIGGEST Japanese names... names you all know and love (and I'm sure have illegally downloaded their music). j/k

OK, so let assume that everyone on this world would stop illegal filesharing instantly. What would that change? Do you really think that japanese game composer's income would skyrocket?

I presume most of us know that what we're doing is against national and/or international law. But most of the legal text concerning digital copyright comes from a time where the internet wasn't widespread at all. So maybe the law is outdated and needs some reforming (Pirate Party *hint hint*)?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

YouTube Video

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

@LeHah: Luckily Tommy Tallarico isn't going on a rampage here, like Lukas Kendall from FSM did when he found out that the ST box was shared on ffshrine...

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by LiquidAcid

Luckily Tommy Tallarico isn't going on a rampage here, like Lukas Kendall from FSM did when he found out that the ST box was shared on ffshrine

And last I heard, you guys hadn't heard yet from the lawyers at Paramount.

I mean, if you're stupid enough to get caught e-stealing a major franchise property from one of the biggest movie studios in the world, I'd assume someone is getting a C&D order on your end.

How ya doing, buddy?

I like this thread, because an admitted pirate and snob is arguing with a man that literally made a career out of VGM. And he's pretending his opinion matters.

That's cute, LiquidAcid. You're cute. I want to pet you on the head.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by LiquidAcid

At this point I like to quote Thomas Böcker:

Original interview here: Game Music :: Interview with Symphonic Legends Producer (September 2010)

I'm deeply grateful that Böcker is opposing this sad market trend.

Yes, it's quite clear that you are a Thomas Böcker fanboy. Thank-you for pointing that out. And as I'm sure you're aware he isn't very fond of Video Games Live and the way we present our show. That's cool.

I've always applauded him for doing what he does in such a different way. And if he doesn't want to give us the same kind of understanding, credit and respect... that's cool too. It doesn't affect what I do in any way. We do between 50 - 60 shows every year around the world and are spreading game music to millions of new people... that was and is my goal... and so far we've been succeeding on a huge level. Clearly in order to do this I need to tailor my show and experience a certain way... and it's one that I'm completely happy and proud of.

You linked to an interview from squareenixmusic.com which people have sent me in the past and I have read. I'd like to also link to an interview that the same website did with me as well which talks a lot about some of the things you've brought up. May help in understanding my approach.

Game Music :: Interview with Tommy Tallarico of Video Games Live (November 2009)

Also (from the same website) I'd like to point to a review that Chris did when he finally saw our show. Chris (like yourself) is also a very hardcore game music fan and was a bit apprehensive in regards to what Video Games Live was and how it was presented. I think his fair review from that perspective will give you a better insight as to how the show is really presented. I mean, lets be honest.. if you haven't seen it, it's probably a little unfair to say that it's not for you and you don't like it.



Game Music :: Video Games Live (Cardiff, Wales) :: Report by Chris

But hey... not everyone is going to like the same thing. Totally understandable. It's just nice to be able to speak to other folks from around the world who are as passionate about this stuff as I am. As long as we can do it with respect and understanding.

Rock On.

Tommy

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Kishin

Uprooting vgm from its heritage and the beginnings - free online availability - and commercializing it has more or less ruined all quality in the past five years.

Can someone explain this argument to me? Asking for compensation for your work means you're the one to blame for an overall decrease in quality? It takes an incredible amount of gall to say, "Look, if we didn't have to pay for all of this music, none of this would have happened."

I am sympathetic to perceived problems such as the intentional simplification of music for mass consumption. But, the line between these problems and not giving away your work for free is not a straight one. It's insulting to lay all the blame on the artists as if it were a clear case of "selling out" in every instance.

It seems particularly irrelevant with respect to Video Games Live, the point of which is to rearrange and glorify music that has already been created.

Jam it back in, in the dark.