Building a Budget PC

That can hopefully play a number of newer games.

Not really sure how much I'm willing to spend on it right now, I suppose it depends on what I can get for different amounts of money.

I currently have a new case I bought a few weeks ago because it was a pretty sweet deal, a new 500GB SATA HDD, and all the accessories for my PC I'll neat (mouse, keyboard, monitor, speakers, etc).

I definitely want a dual-core processor, since I built a computer with one of them in the last lab I worked in, and it was possibly one of the best usability improvements for a PC since I started using Windows. So, yeah, definitely want one of them.

I figure since RAM is cheap right now, as might as well go in for 2GB of it (since there's no reason for getting 4, right?).

Video card is the hardest choice for me, since for the next six months, I'll only have a few hours (at best) to play games. My brother got me Orange Box for Christmas, so I'd like to be able to play that at pretty decent settings as well as possible some of the other new games (I saw my bro playing Bioshock on his 360 and that looks pretty neat).

So, umm, yeah. Recommendations?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

How much do you want to spend? That's the real important thing.

CPU: Intel E2160. Supposedly that thing clocks to 3.0 GHz with stock cooling, with very little fuss.

Video Card: nVidia 8600, if you want something cheap for 100.. ATI 3850 for better performance at 170. Ultimate price/performance ratio is nVidia 8800 GT, but it's pretty expensive due to high demand at around $250.

RAM: 2 GB from a reputable company. More is okay, but what's the point?

Take a look around at these sites:
TR's Christmas 2007 system guide - The Tech Report - Page 2
AnandTech: November 2007 Budget Buyers' Guide

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Well, it's kinda hard for me to set a budget right now, since I'm not sure how much a good computer costs nowadays.

Tell me if these pricings (without actually researching prices online) are approximately correct.

CPU: $120
Mobo: $100
RAM: $75
PSU: $60
DVD-RW: $30

That all comes out to around $400, so I guess I could spend $100-$200 on a video card. The amount I'd like to spend on that depends on how long the card should last. I don't really have a whole lot of time to play during the school year, though I should have a bit more time over the summer. Would I be better buying a more budget-line card right now since I don't need a whole lot to play Orange Box and then maybe in two summers go out and buy a new card that'll hopefully bring my computer back up to snuff?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Quote:

CPU: $120
Mobo: $100
RAM: $75
PSU: $60
DVD-RW: $30

CPU:120$ will buy you a descent mainstream dual core , much like the E2160 xiaowei mentioned.

Mobo: $100 , Good enough to pick up a GA-P35-DS3L mobo, can't go wrong with it for the price

RAM: $75 will get you 2GB easy. With MFR you can pick up descent ram for $25-30, 2x1024mb sticks

PSU: I'd go a little higher in price.. like say about $80. A good PSU is always needed, especially with a descent video card and any overlocking.

DVD-RW: I've seen descent ones floating around at $35

As for the Video card, a 3850 is probably your best bet then. A few places had them at $145 for awhile, but it's easy to find one at $159. The only things better would be the 3850 512mb version around $189, 3870 around $229, or 8800GT at about $245 (all approx prices i've seen). As always, you can find deals, such as the 3850 for $145, or the 8800GT I ordered a buddy for $205 on a boxing day sale.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Well, I guess my biggest question is how much real performance increase will I see upgrading from a 3850 to the 8800GT? I've never really built a top of the line computer, so I don't really care about running everything at top notch settings.

Is the extra $100 just going to net me an extra bunch of FPS that isn't actually needed to play a game?

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Depends what games you are playing, and on what monitor/resolution.

If you are playing Orange Box on a 19inch LCD monitor, the 3850 will blow the game away.
The only time the 256mb vs 512mb of video memory comes into play is 1440x900+ resolutions.

Heavier games though at higher resolutions will require the 3870 or 8800GT, but that is referring to crysis etc (which almost no card today can play well... 3 way 8800GTS SLI anyone?).

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Interestingly enough, I always thought DVD drives would get cheaper, but it seems they plateaued out around $35. My parents' desktop DVD drive was $37 and it was like a year or more ago.

The E2160 is only around 80 dollars and I would shunt money into a better PSU. Never want to skimp on that.

I say 8600 if you want to comfortable play Orange Box at a medium resolution.

FELIPE NO

Alright, so I went to newegg to do a bit of shopping and here's what I've got so far.

Quote:

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write Black SATA Model LH-20A1S
$34.99

Antec Basiq BP500U ATX12V Version 2.01 500W Power Supply
$45

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT12864AA804 - Retail
$49.99 (After rebate)

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6750
$189.99

So the CPU's a bit higher than I said I was going to pay, but that's because I really have no clue what a good one is nowadays. It seemed to have pretty good ratings and everything, but I have no idea if it's worth the extra money over the ones you guys recommended around the $100 price point earlier.

Newegg.com - MSI NX8600GTS-T2D256E-OC GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Newegg.com - EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

Looking at those two video cards, thoughts on which is a better value? Having my game look HOLY COW SWEET isn't super important, since I've always had a less than perfect systems, but would it be a good time-wise investment?

Newegg.com - MSI P6N SLI Platinum LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

I'm liking the MSI board over the Gigabyte one since it has a firewire port onboard as well as two possible spots for PCI-E cards and three slots for PCI cards. It's got good ratings and everything, so any worries about that?

I think that should cover all of my bases. I'd like to try to order as soon as possible, since I'm having it shipped to me here at home (no tax on orders shipped to PA) and then my mom's going to use her office discount to ship everything out to me in California (8.25% sales tax, works out to save me a bit of money).

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Originally Posted by RacinReaver

Newegg.com - MSI NX8600GTS-T2D256E-OC GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Newegg.com - EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

8800 > 8600

I honestly would go for 8600 in your situation.

But like other has mentioned. 8600 is still good enough for games such as Orange Box.

but since you put 8800GTS as one of your option, you can settle cheap 8800GT for 40 bucks more. (But than you need better PSU ~__~ )

Originally Posted by Garret

Heavier games though at higher resolutions will require the 3870 or 8800GT, but that is referring to crysis etc (which almost no card today can play well... 3 way 8800GTS SLI anyone?).

3 Way SLi is too pricy

NVIDIA 3-Way SLI review roundup - Engadget

Originally Posted by engadget

No use kidding around: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 3-Way SLI kicks benchmark ass. Reviewers across the board found the setup to be far and away the best money can buy when it comes to graphics, but the price is certainly steep. Not only are the cards super pricey -- you're limited to the 8800 GTX and 8800 Ultra -- but you'll need a 1000+ watt power supply, and pretty much a fresh system from the ground up unless you're already running the nForce 680i SLI motherboard. PC Perspective crunched the numbers, and you're looking at about $2828 in costs before you even get to the case, hard drive, DVD drive and all that other superfluous stuff. That said, the third card really makes a big difference, since performance scales surprisingly well with the addition. You probably don't need this kind of power if you're not trying to game at full-res on a 30-incher, but if you don't mind dropping $3k on a system purely designed to play Crysis at Very High, then you just might have some 3-way SLI in your future.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Alright, I think I'm going to go with the 8600 and the Gigabyte mobo.

I'm still pretty confused about all the different options for the Core 2 Duo chips. How much does cache matter? Is a higher FSB more important than a higher clock speed? Which ones are good to try and overclock?

Sorry I'm asking so many questions, it's just I only build a computer once ever four years or so and tend not to upgrade a whole lot after that, so I'd like something that will last me quite a while.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

A front side bus (FSB) is a gateway to system memory. The faster the FSB, the faster the CPU can receive and send data. A slow FSB will bottleneck a fast CPU, because data must pass through the FSB to get to the rest of the computer. FSB is usually not important, because CPUs are (usually) made so the CPU won't out pace the FSB.

Cache, usually L2 cache, is basically memory for the CPU. The CPU will use pieces of the same data and instructions when doing a process. Instead of forcing the CPU to go through the FSB and pulling data from the RAM, the L2 cache is there for the CPU to access immediately. An L2 cache speeds up a processor. A higher amount of L2 cache is useful for CPU intensive work. So, if you're doing 3D modeling, high resolution photo manipulation and the like, a large L2 cache will be appreciated and make life easier. For most applications, doubling the L2 cache leads to a single digit improvement in benchmarks. Not economical.

I suggested the E2160 because it overclocks to 3.0 GHz easily and on a stock fan and costs only $75. It has had a reputation for doing so and there are plentiful guides to do so on the internet. For $75, you're getting a more expensive chip, just with less cache. The smaller amount of cache will not be a huge deal, because you're planning to keep the computer as general use and some gaming.

I think both motherboards that you have chosen seem like good options. I do know the Gigabyte one will have an CPU upgrade path, as it can use the 45 nm CPUs that Intel will eventually be selling. I am not sure about the MSI one, so do some digging for that one. If you want the extra ports, by all means get it for that. I'm curious what you'll use the PCI-E and PCI slots for? TV Tuner? Wireless Card? I hope you're not planning to SLI or Crossfire, because it's really not worth it right now.

You're power supply looks okay. 500W is good and it's from a major brand.

Have you thought about a media card reader? Most of them are around $15 and come joined with a floppy drive and sometimes a USB port or two. They're a bit lower on the quality line, since major manufacturers don't bother with them. Don't be afraid to RMA if they come busted or die quickly.

P.S. Do you have a case?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Ahh, cool, good to know about the cache not being that huge of a deal since it's a pretty big increase in costs. I don't really do any video/audio encoding, though I might do occasional massively large office things (50000 x 20 cell spreadsheets in excel each with a bunch of calculations to do isn't outside the norm for me ), but I can always just do that at my office computer if it becomes a problem.

I've got a TV tuner that I'm going to plug into one of the PCI slots, as well as an extra firewire card that came with my old mobo. And, well, it's always nice to have an extra slot or two lying around incase I need to sometime change to a wireless card. Also, didn't realize it earlier, but the Gigabyte one has 3 PCI slots too, and since I have that firewire PCI card, then I don't really need to spend the extra money on the MSI board.

And, yeah, I've got a case that I bought last month that should be fine for everything (got it on a nice black friday sale).

I don't think I'll be upgrading CPUs any time in the future since I usually stick with whatever's in there until my computer's done. If anything I might just charity this computer into my office in two years and build myself a semi-new computer then.

Should it matter that for the CPU you recommended ithe FSB is 800MHz and both of the mobo's we've been looking at are 1333/1066MHz? Can I just set it to the higher setting and have it work out of the box anyway?

Thanks for all the help on this, looks like I'm almost ready to start ordering!

Oh, and any reason for the E2160 instead of the 2140? $10 difference isn't a huge deal, just wondering if there's any reason for the 2160 or the 2180 over it.

Also, as of right now, for the PSU, CPU, DVD-RW, video card (the 7600GTS), RAM, and mobo for $400. Man, I remember back when a midrange CPU and mobo set me back $315 and it was a great deal.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

The CPU's lower FSB isn't important since you'll be changing that. To overclock the Core 2 Duo, you'll be upping the FSB manually in BIOS. Here: Legion Hardware The screenshots show the steps. It's a different motherboard, but it should have corresponding stuff in different menus.

Why the E2160? I don't really know. All suggestion say e2160. Don't know why.

7600GTS? You mean 8600 GTS?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Whoops, yeah, meant the 8600GTS.

I saw one review of the E2140 that mentioned the heat sink being crappy, so maybe the E2160 comes with a slightly better stock one.

And...guess it looks like I'm ready to get my credit card. Thanks for all the help.

Additional Spam:
Well, right when I was ready to check out both the video card and the mobo went out of stock, so I swapped out the mobo to the one we had been talking about earlier and switch to this video card: Newegg.com - XFX PVT84JUDD3 GeForce 8600GT XXX 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

I had them shipped to my office at school, so I probably won't get them until next week, but I can't wait to put the whole thing together. Hopefully I'll even get most of the rebates back. =/

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

So I got all of my parts and the computer's working beautifully (already played TF2 and HL2 for quite a bit).

The only thing that's not working quite right is I can't get the overclock up to 3.0GHz. The default FSB is 800mhz, and I can set it to 1066 without any problems, but when I bump it up to 1333 Windows will stay stable for 5-10 minutes, then I'll bluescreen and crash out. My temperatures are perfectly fine (low-mid 30s in C), so I figure it's got to be something else. I've never gone about overclocking before, are there some other settings I can try tweaking?

Edit: I also get some weird error message during the BIOS stage talking about how a chip is 200mhz and the speed it's set to is unsupported, so the speed will be reduced. This only happens when I'm overclocking. Is this normal?

FELIPE NO

You may need to up the CPU voltage in the bios a TINY bit when you are overclocking to make it stable. What is it currently set at in the bios?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

It says it's at 1.320V. How high would I be able to bump it up?

Also, could I use intermediate FSB speeds instead of just the "normal" ones at 800, 1066, and 1333? Like, if it's unstable up at 1333mhz, could I go somewhere between 1066 and 1333?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Yes. It's perfectly okay.

There's nowhere I can't reach.