PCSOs Not Trained to Save Drowning Children

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Manchester | Police defend drowning death case

Quote:

Police chiefs have defended two community support officers (PCSOs) who did not enter the water as a 10-year-old boy drowned in a pond.

Jordon Lyon leapt into the water in Wigan, Greater Manchester, after his eight-year-old stepsister Bethany got into difficulties on 3 May.

Two anglers jumped in and saved Bethany but Jordon became submerged.

The inquest into his death heard the PCSOs did not rescue him as they were not trained to deal with the incident.

Jordon was playing at the edge of the pond, known locally as John Pit, off Wigan Lower Road, in Standish Lower Ground, with his two brothers, stepbrother and stepsister on 3 May.

He was trying to support Bethany as she struggled in the six-feet-deep water before slipping from view.

Anglers managed to pull Bethany out but Jordon was out of sight before they could get to him.

The alarm was raised and the PCSOs arrived on the scene. Police said they could see no sign of Jordon in the water, so they radioed trained officers for help.

Greater Manchester Police said an officer was on the scene within five minutes...

In a statement after the hearing, Det Ch Insp Phil Owen, of Wigan CID, who led the investigation into Jordon's death, said: "PCSOs are not trained to deal with major incidents such as this.

"Both ourselves and the fire brigade regularly warn the public of the dangers of going into unknown stretches of water so it would have been inappropriate for PCSOs, who are not trained in water rescue, to enter the pond...

Paul Kelly, chairman of the Police Federation in Manchester, said PCSOs do not have the same level of training as police officers to deal with life-saving situations.

He said: "The message is clear and unambiguous - it's the government, they are trying to fool the public.

"They take a person and dress him up as a police officer but they just don't have the same powers.

"Every single police officer I trained with left training school with a life-saving certificate of some sort."

He said the PCSOs might not have been able to swim and in that case they should not have risked their lives.

But he added: "People throw themselves into rivers and ponds to save people every day because it's the right thing to do.

"This is an accident waiting to happen again."

Perhaps a British member can explain, but what exactly are PCSOs? Are they some kind of supplemental force to the police or what?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

PSCO's are just fake officers, or one's that are not quite good enough to make the actual force.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Yeah, PCSO's cannot arrest people or do anything really important.
You can read more about them here if you are intersted.

I don't know why everyone is making a big deal out of PCSO's not being able to swim.
According to the Metroplitan police website, even normal police officers are not required to know how to swim.

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Sounds bizarre that Britain would have a type of fake police officer. Is it just a way to save money and give the public a false sense of safety or something?

Kind of interesting that they have a "force" of failed officers...

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Quote:

He said the PCSOs might not have been able to swim and in that case they should not have risked their lives.

But he added: "People throw themselves into rivers and ponds to save people every day because it's the right thing to do.

Isn't the first thing they tell you to do in any sort of safety training to not risk your own life if you probably won't help the situation?

I was speaking idiomatically.

Do they have citizen's arrest over there? Maybe they could arrest people that way, lol.

How ya doing, buddy?

Originally Posted by RacinReaver

Isn't the first thing they tell you to do in any sort of safety training to not risk your own life if you probably won't help the situation?

But what about the right thing to do? What about compassion and reckless selflessness? What about the human condition?

...

Yeah, fuck it.

FELIPE NO

Well, if you dive in to save a drowning child and you don't know how to swim, then you're not being very compassionate to the person that has to try and come to rescue both of you.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

So I'm confused... were they actually unable to swim or did they just not have some certificate that says they're allowed to rescue people out of the water?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

It takes less than two weeks for anyone to learn how to swim. I learned in a week when I was 7. People need to get on the ball here, our planets surface is 70% water for christmas sakes.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by taiga

What about the human condition?

There is no such thing, stop watching Battlestar Galactica.

As for what happened, its messed up, but if they're not certified or trained then theres no point in risking their life to save someone in a situation they're not able to help with. Asking two people who can't swim to save a third is just stupid.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by The Wise Vivi

Sounds bizarre that Britain would have a type of fake police officer. Is it just a way to save money and give the public a false sense of safety or something?

In pretty much any part of Britain, the police have neither the money nor the manpower to do everything that they need to do. They certainly don't have the money to do the little things people used to expect like maintaining a visible police presense in your neighbourhood.

PCSOs are a solution to that... of sorts. They don't do any real good, but they make people feel better because they see a 'police' presense.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Where does it say these guys couldn't swim? All I see is that they don't have training for the situation. Which doesn't necessarily mean they can't swim.

Unless I missed something fairly obvious. :/

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Trance Machina

Where does it say these guys couldn't swim? All I see is that they don't have training for the situation. Which doesn't necessarily mean they can't swim.

Unless I missed something fairly obvious. :/

I agree.

If my job description didn't mention I had to swim, I wouldn't do it either.

How ya doing, buddy?

It may also have been a liability thing, as well. I'm not sure about Britain, but in America, if one person tries to help another, and something goes wrong, the person who tried to help can be sued. Unless there are 'good samaritan' laws in place, of course. Its dumb.

FELIPE NO

Just because somebody knows how to swim, doesn't necessarily mean they are able and capable to be a lifegaurd or even know CPR.

I can swim...enough to save myself. And that's all I'm doing.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

This still doesn't mean that you're not an asshole for not trying.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

Well they said the kid was submerged in a pond, meaning they wouldn't really know where he is. But the water was 6 feet deep? I mean I could literally walk through that shit, kicking around looking for Jordan. it's not like it's a deep as lake and you would need goggles.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Temari

It may also have been a liability thing, as well. I'm not sure about Britain, but in America, if one person tries to help another, and something goes wrong, the person who tried to help can be sued. Unless there are 'good samaritan' laws in place, of course. Its dumb.

Is that why on "The Incredibles" when he saves that guy who tried to kill himself , the saved person sued him?

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

aye. If you try to save someone, and screw up, then you can be sued for not knowing what you were doing, even though the person could have died if you hadn't helped.

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

So anyone who's not a PCSO can do whatever it takes to save someone without ramifications? Mostly people don't worry about not knowing the medical procedures, they just do what they can to help. Ironically, like Jordon.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Tortalius

aye. If you try to save someone, and screw up, then you can be sued for not knowing what you were doing, even though the person could have died if you hadn't helped.

Here in the States, most local governments have what's called "Good Samaritan" laws, where if you try to help, you're usually exonerated if a disasterous situation occurs. I just don't get how police (or even rent-a-cops) from an England, which last I checked WAS AN ISLAND, don't know how to swim. Even so, they're kids man, if I saw two kids drowning, I'd go for it for sure and just make sure I'm getting enough oxygen in the process.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Let's keep this in perspective here. A child is drowning, and the first thing some of you people worry about is "will I get sued?"

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Bradylama

Let's keep this in perspective here. A child is drowning, and the first thing some of you people worry about is "will I get sued?"

Crap. I agree with Brady for once. I feel so dirty. ;_;

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?