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Welcome to the Exploding Garrmondo Weiner Interactive Swiss Army Penis. |
GFF is a community of gaming and music enthusiasts. We have a team of dedicated moderators, constant member-organized activities, and plenty of custom features, including our unique journal system. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ or our GFWiki. You will have to register before you can post. Membership is completely free (and gets rid of the pesky advertisement unit underneath this message).
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![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
Shmups on the nextgen HDTV
Now here's an intresting question, what will come of the shmups on the nextgen consoles when played on HDTV's??
As you know the requisistes, at least for Xbox 360, for a game to be licenced is the support for 720p, full 5.1 surround sound and 16:9 widescreen. While the 2 first requisistes pose no problem the last one does, at least for vertical shmups. Horizontal shmups will have no problem, the screen will just be wider and that's it, the first 2 Darius used a hyper widescreen (12:3, over 2 times wider than a 16:9 TV of the same size) and that was never a problem. Now vertical shmups are another story, there are 2 ways to play a vertical shmup: 1. You play with the TV on horizontal orientation like Gigawing or Radiant Silvergun 2. You play with the TV on tate mode, that is you rotate the TV 90ยบ and play with vertical orientation Both these modes present a problem on 16:9 TVs, the first mode, the horizontal orientation won't be very playble since you'll have to much space horizontally but almost none vertically, it would take too much time to go from on side of the screen to another, the second mode is also problematic since you'll have to look higher than you would on a 4:3 TV to see the enemies coming. While these problems are no show stoppers they defenitely don't help the shmup cause, also these HDTV are noramlly (always?) LCD displays that are quite thin and they aren't build with tate mode in mind so tating then and making sure they don't fall is an added challenge. Many include a 'feet' but it doesn't allow rotation (unlike LCD PC monitors many), others include a hang on the wall holes but these are meant for horizontal orientation. Tating an LCD display and making sure it stays tated (and not crashed on the floor) seem kind hard... lots of duck tape might be needed ![]() So what do you shmuppers think about this? Will this be a problem or am I just posting nonsense? Jam it back in, in the dark. |
You're a tad naive if you think old-school shmups will somehow live on in next-gen consoles (outside perhaps Live arcade in ugly filter mode). SNK has said they like to support the Wii as it's most welcoming for 2D from the three consoles.
As for TVs, you'd think flat screens would be ideal for turning for tate, but as far as I can tell, a good number of flats still shouldn't be turned, for whatever reasons. Best bet is to get one of those large flat computer monitors that carry a 90 degree sticker on them, at least you know you won't break them. There's nowhere I can't reach. ![]() |
![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
![]() There's a nice looking shoot 'em up for the 360 in Japan, 'Senko No Ronde'.. ![]() ![]() ![]() .. Which will likely never see the light of day anywhere else! I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body? |
![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
Unfortunly as you said the game will prolly never leave the land of rising sun... Why do Japan hate us? ![]() I was speaking idiomatically. |
I simply remember SNK Playmore USA president Ben Herman saying how 2D games are not suitable for PS3 and X360 and seeing as they announced their support for Wii and DS, it's a tad obvious what they favor. Since it's so difficult to comprehend, consider it this way. The Wii is not pushed as a powerhouse of a console for the next age of game graphics, therefore it doesn't have specific technical requirements (720p minimum, full 3D graphics naturally, overuse of bloom, every single surface must be shiny) that need to be met before you're allowed to make games for it, unlike PS3. It's also cheaper to develop for, which is pretty ideal for a relatively small company lacking in huge megasellers. No one is saying the Wii is the best platform for 2D games, but it's the most welcoming of the three. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? ![]() |
![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
Racketboy is a relyable source in my book so it's not bullshit, plus I have Treasure's sayings in way higher account than SNK's.
Also if the console is weaker so will the games be no? I for one would like to see a 720p (or even a 1080p) version of Guilty Gear instead of yet another 480p release, and before you say it, no creating higher resolution sprites isn't more expensive, infact all sprites have always been way over 1080p during conception, they are then redrawn, scaled and optimized for lower resolutions, color gamuts and other hardware limitations. As for the Wii being cheaper to develop... you get what you pay for ![]() FELIPE NO |
How ya doing, buddy? ![]()
Last edited by map car man words telling me to do things; Dec 27, 2006 at 02:16 PM.
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![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
Recently (sorta) the PC saw ports of Guilty Gear and 2 Taito X games (Raiden 3 and Shikigami no Shiro 3, unfortunly they're only released on Japan too! What da f*ck is wrong with these guys anyway??), let's indeed hope more retro goodness hits this shores. EDIT: You know what? It might as well be that! If you notice both new Sega and Taito arcade board are just locked PC hardware... hummm..... kinda suspicius ![]()
Jam it back in, in the dark.
Last edited by devilmaycry; Dec 27, 2006 at 06:31 PM.
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First of all, they said that there would be a new "shooter" released. Right? Treasure have made Gradius V, Bangai-O, Radiant's series and Sin and Punishment. So automatically assuming it's going to be an "ikaruga sequel" is inaccurate. Second of all, Treasure make games few and far between. In an interview they said they deliberately make them challenging so you'll have something to work on which will tone your reflexes as well as feeling like you've achieved something by passing a hard level/area. So they aren't stupid. Now, with saying that, why would they be making it for the 360, when the 360 has next to no interest with the japanese? ![]() Senko no Ronde looks great, but G.rev aren't too bright. Releasing Under Defeat on the Dreamcast in 2006, instead of the PS2, was a fucking dumb move. Yeah I bought the limited edition, but they would have made many more sales had they of chosen the PS2. Milestone are in the same boat with Radilgy. How I see it is that you have an obsession with the Dreamcast and you're worried that a (practically japan-exclusive already) genre will die with the next generation consoles being out. Well guess what? Technology moves on. Shmups are going to be few and far between and they've been getting more and more obscure since the 90's. It's just how it is. You seem to have something against the Wii, but face it, it isn't supporting HD and there's already 2 2D games available (Trauma Center, MSA) for it. If anything you'll be seeing 2D games on the Wii over the other 2. If the Wii isn't aimed at "hardcore gamers" but more a direct public, who cares. So long as the games get released it doesn't matter. There's nowhere I can't reach. |
![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
Anyway, you guys really hate me, I just asked how do you think vertical shmups will be played on HDTVs and you almost eat me alive...... is it because I don't post enough in the sewers subforum? ![]() This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
A vertical shooter will probably not be scaled to fit a 16:9 space, rather it is going to extend the boarders further to fill out the screen and/or move most of the on-screen information to the sides of the screen. And for tate mode, there are quite a lot of HDTV mounts out there that allow for 90+ degree rotation of the screen.
Also you are completely correct about development costs of sprite based games for the PS3 and XBox 360. The cost difference of developing a HD sprite vs a SD sprite is marginal and with the processing capabilities of the two machines compared to the Wii, developers of such games can afford say a particle system overlay and not have to spend tons of money on optimizations for the XBox 360 and PS3 because they are more than capable of dealing with the extra overhead. Sprite based games are potentially cheaper to develop on the Xbox 360 and PS3 because of the massive overhead the two machines can deal with when compared to the Wii. Plus the move to 720p resolutions offers the best possible increase in sprite quality in the past 10 years. These developers are going to absolutely love that home users finally have the ability to display sprite detail only previously offered at the development level. How ya doing, buddy? ![]() |
![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
As for HDTV vertical mounts I haven't seen any yet, but that would partially solve the thing, there would still be the problem of chaning between yoko and tate on the fly but it's better than duct tape ![]()
I was speaking idiomatically. |
You avoided the fact that just because they mentioned "shooter" doesn't necessarily indicate that it's going to be a sequel to Ikaruga.
G.rev is hardly what I'd consider newly formed either. What, they didn't turn enough profit from Border Down to release Under Defeat on the PS2? I dunno. Making games for the Dreamcast in 2006 almost feels like beta testing. What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
Also I don't really care if it's a new Ikaruga simply because I don't think the game is that good as many belive, it's simply the most well known recent shmup, it's good but hardly the best even on DC.
But don't take my word, take their word; check this EDGE interview to G.Rev president. There's also an interview to Milestone of Radirgy fame that you also criticized, they are few too (only 9) and formed from an old company, Compile, from the Aleste and MUSHA fame (SNES, MD, MCD). Triangle Service makers Trizeal, a very lame DC shmup is also interviewed... a 1 man company at the time of interview O_o They all state their very tight budgets and profits, the dificult that is a small company like that to survive, the shrinking arcade market in Japan and why do they choose NAOMI/Dreamcast instead of PS2/other boards (basicly because NAOMI boards have a large installed base among arcade operators on Japan). Now that you made a complete jackass, idiot and moron figure of yourself could you please take your ignorant trolling somewhere else? Thanks in advance. BTW you are in my black list now. Have fun. FELIPE NO |
Also, releasing a title on the 360 is dumb, like I said, which is why this is more rumour material. Actually I know about this. It was posted on an upcoming list of registered games on some site, stating Treasure (shooter) (unknown) where unknown was what the title of the game was going to be, along with Raiden 4, which also has it's own website yet the Treasure title is absolutely nowhere in sight.
What, you don't want my bikini-clad body? |
![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
1. People do what they want, if Treasure want to release their new game on the 360/PS3/DC/Wii they will, it doesn't have to make sense to you or be smart.
2. Treasure is a 30 employee company, well established and almost 15 years old. Check wikipedia or their homepage. 3. I'm only hostile to persons who barge into topic about how a vertical shmup will be developed considering the wide screen TV ratio with stuff like: shmups will DIE and the last of them will be on the Wii because you want to or how companies you know nothing about should do stuff the way you think it's smarter or even how I'm obcessed with the Dreamcast. 4. there is no point 4 5. You do like to sit on topics don't you? Jam it back in, in the dark. |
Shooters are almost dead anyway. I'm probably the biggest shooting fan on gff second to MrMonkeyMan who posts once every 5 years. I'd love to see more games for the next generation consoles, but there isn't going to be very many in this catagory. Seriously. I'd much rather prefer the genre to stick to Dreamcast, Gamecube, and PS2. Most of the CAVE titles I own, along with a bunch of other shooters. The problem is, 2D doesn't look good on HDTV's. Even with 480p, 16:9 isn't bound to happen. How many 2D games support 16:9 aspect ratio, let alone the 480p? I can think of Sega Ages 25: Treasure Box, which does both. But I've compared a 29" HDTV 480p/16:9 Gunstar Heroes to a standard 29" SDTV with component, and the component looked better. Seriously, you would be surprised at how poor some of the games on HDTVs look if they're 2D. Take Disgaea for a example. Jagged and pixellation everywhere. Like I said, they're best off in the PS2/GC/DC at the moment. There's a few xbox shooters but I avoid them since they're on PS2 as well, and the controller sucks. I can't think of a single xbox shooter that's exclusive. How ya doing, buddy? |
This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it. |
![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
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Also CRT SDTV have a natural bluring that LCD screens don't have, that help reducing pixelation. As a proof of concept, incase you don't belive me here's a screenshot of an upcoming 2D PC shmup, using 480p resolution: ![]() .... it sure looks pixeled. ![]() I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?
Last edited by devilmaycry; Dec 28, 2006 at 06:50 PM.
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This won't be the case if the 2D game was developed natively for 720p with 1280x720 backgrounds and proper sprite resolutions. I was speaking idiomatically. ![]()
Last edited by Cetra; Dec 28, 2006 at 09:20 PM.
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This is why I said the Wii is more likely to have them. Just look at Metal Slug Anthology which is already out (in america). Component cables are out too, and there's third party ones which are cheap as hell. I'm sure I'd much rather prefer to play it on a SDTV over a HDTV. It's just too much hassle.
What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now? |
FELIPE NO ![]() |
![]() Member 4461 ![]() Level 13.07 ![]() Apr 2006 ![]() |
Do you think before posting? Do you even think at all?
Most amazing jew boots |
This isn't difficult to comprehend. Jam it back in, in the dark.
Last edited by Elixir; Dec 29, 2006 at 06:27 AM.
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