Suspenion of Disbelief and You

I was playing Ninja Gaiden Black last night and I started thinking as I sometimes do:

Who the hell built this place? Why did they make trap infested corridors ending in buttons that need to be pressed to open a door elsewhere? Why is there a lava pit with steam jets and a ledge as the only way to get across? Why a series of rooms in which you have to switch these stones around to open the door you want to get through?

I realize being a gamer requires a massive suspension of disbelief, it's necessary the first time you pick up a controller. Otherwise you'd have scoffed at a fat plumber throwing a fireball and walked away, forever cheating yourself.

Yet with games far more realistic looking these days, one starts to wonder. Sure it's a fantasy world, it's made up, but just for the sake of argument, who the hell built these places?

Anyone else have this sort of situation happen to them?

Jam it back in, in the dark.

definitely... i was playing SMB (the first one) and managed to find my way into bowser's castle right? just before the end, there's a small stretch of water with bloopers and the rotating fire "arms". i never questioned how physically impossible it was to be hurt by fire while underwater before, or how bowser got them into the water in the first place for that matter.

i also wondered why in those castles the axe that dropped the bridge was there at all, or at least why bowser didn't use it to drop mario (well, that really didn't need much of an excuse because the game wouldn't be practical otherwise).

and on a general note, i think a couple times i also wondered how lava manages to find its way everywhere in old videogames: it seems everyone is able to make trips and carry it in buckets out to wherever they need in order to create a hazard for the hero.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

I’ve wondered how heroes in RPGs could carry many items with them without extra storage. At least with the Resident Evil games, the number of possible items a character could bring was limited. I also found it strange that enemies and heroes in most RPGs I've played would take turns attacking each other.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Gakineko

definitely... i was playing SMB (the first one) and managed to find my way into bowser's castle right? just before the end, there's a small stretch of water with bloopers and the rotating fire "arms". i never questioned how physically impossible it was to be hurt by fire while underwater before, or how bowser got them into the water in the first place for that matter.

i also wondered why in those castles the axe that dropped the bridge was there at all, or at least why bowser didn't use it to drop mario (well, that really didn't need much of an excuse because the game wouldn't be practical otherwise).

and on a general note, i think a couple times i also wondered how lava manages to find its way everywhere in old videogames: it seems everyone is able to make trips and carry it in buckets out to wherever they need in order to create a hazard for the hero.

I been trying to complete Super Mario Bros. recently I never really thought about that fire in the water thing when I got to that part! Sounds silly. =)

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

I find the taking turns thing fine. It's more of a representation of a fight - not a live action fight. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it...but if you consider a book, for example, reading a fight might sound turn-based (or perhaps CTB/ATB-based, because sometimes someone will strike twice xD).

I love the idea of the post-game though. Optional bosses and the like. If they wanted to rule the world, whew, our heroes would be a little screwed over in the main story. SO3 makes this point...I think the protagonists say something like "Wow, if he'd been that hard in the main game, we'd never have made it this far!" when they encounter a main-game boss in the post-game.

As for the suspension of disbelief, I'm fine with that too. If I've paid for a game, I just want to enjoy it. So unless I enjoy nit picking, I probably won't.
Suspending disbelief becomes increasingly easy, of course.
Perhaps in your first game, carrying 20 of each item (or indeed 99) including armour and weapon might seem a little funny - but you come to expect it after a while.
We make associations as well (and quite rightly so) - in Star Ocean, Till the End of Time, for example, one would assume it'd bear resemblance to other RPGs. Perhaps the Tales of~s series, or the Final Fantasys. So we'd be shocked if Fayt could only carry a measly two Valiant Armours. This helps in suspending the disbelief each time (ie, we only need to do it once). So not only is it necessary...it's easy too. ^ ^;;

On the other hand, if Solid Snake could carry 99 Claymores, we would be rather surprised. xD

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Rydia

I’ve wondered how heroes in RPGs could carry many items with them without extra storage. At least with the Resident Evil games, the number of possible items a character could bring was limited. I also found it strange that enemies and heroes in most RPGs I've played would take turns attacking each other.

Yeah, I've also wondered why for some of the more recent RPGs, your characters will wear the EXACT same clothing and have the same appearance, despite whatever the weather conditions are. I mean, let's see Wakka and Tidus walk around snowy environments with only wearing beach summer wear. Why not? This can be basically applied to most if not all types of RPGs, but meh, just a minor observation.

Quote:

there's a small stretch of water with bloopers and the rotating fire "arms". i never questioned how physically impossible it was to be hurt by fire while underwater before, or how bowser got them into the water in the first place for that matter.

Perhaps its super heated magnesium flares that are fueled by a souce which stretches inside the core. I dunno. I just know magnesium flares are used by divers deep in the ocean waters. And I don't think they're safe to touch, LOL. The only thing though, is burning magnesium is brilliant white, while the fire we see is well, flaming red orange. Herm.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

Personally I'd like to see the trend of games like Splinter Cell continue, albeit with the idea expanded on. Imagine Ninja Gaiden Black or Prince of Persia where instead of navigating these elaborate traps and such, you have to get from point A to point B attempting to utilize the architecture itself. The upcoming Assassin's Creed looks to blow the roof off with that concept and I can't wait. It just better come to X360 as well because I need Gears of War.

In SMB I always wondered why there was an axe there in the first place. Precariously placed in such a way that it could drop the bridge, no less. How come Bowser doesn't just grab the axe and hack Mario to bits?

While it's odd enough that lava is just laying about, I found it a lot more puzzling when a game had water as the deadly substance you couldn't touch.

FELIPE NO

How come clouds can support the weight of platform game characters?

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by Kolba

How come clouds can support the weight of platform game characters?

Why, the same way that floating platforms with no apparent means of upward propulsion can!

Jam it back in, in the dark.

They're probably just taped to the background layer. Maybe nailed, since Mario's fat, and they'd need to support his weight.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

What was great was that in SMB3 it was a secret to be able to go behind the platforms. Truly 2D thinking right there.

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

I get a cackle out of the 99 cap =p

"Can't take anymore, dude. We have 99."
"Well... It's just an herb, dude. Probably weighs as much as a sheet of paper."
"Hey. We have 99. We can't take anymore."
"Let's make it an even 100!"
"IMPOSSIBLE! >8U"

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by FadedReality

Why, the same way that floating platforms with no apparent means of upward propulsion can!"

No, those are solid, and all have their own tiny Master Emeralds powering them. My problem needs a totally different explanation.

I was speaking idiomatically.

Originally Posted by Kolba

How come clouds can support the weight of platform game characters?

All video game characters able to stand on clouds have top secret government boots that treat the clouds as solid objects.

How ya doing, buddy?

What about Wonderboy, he's bare foot.

FELIPE NO

Originally Posted by Kolba

What about Wonderboy, he's bare foot.

So you would think! Take a closer look.

Spoiler:

you will see in the magnification I've so generously provided that wonderboy has invisible government cloud-detector boots on his feet, complete with patented Stand on Clouds stumps. The Sega Master System simply could not render the invisible boots and the special stumps. It's actually a common misconception that he's barefoot.

What, you don't want my bikini-clad body?

Originally Posted by FadedReality

I was playing Ninja Gaiden Black last night and I started thinking as I sometimes do:

Who the hell built this place? Why did they make trap infested corridors ending in buttons that need to be pressed to open a door elsewhere? Why is there a lava pit with steam jets and a ledge as the only way to get across? Why a series of rooms in which you have to switch these stones around to open the door you want to get through?

I realize being a gamer requires a massive suspension of disbelief, it's necessary the first time you pick up a controller. Otherwise you'd have scoffed at a fat plumber throwing a fireball and walked away, forever cheating yourself.

Yet with games far more realistic looking these days, one starts to wonder. Sure it's a fantasy world, it's made up, but just for the sake of argument, who the hell built these places?

Anyone else have this sort of situation happen to them?

These are the aspects of gaming that you're not meant to think of. It's like thinking "Why is an oversized purple dinosaur teaching kids how to read? Why does he have friends? Why are they implying that dinosaurs still exist?"

I did this with ICO. Why is there a specific box hidden in the corner, which convinently happens to fall somewhere allowing you to reach another destination? Why do stone seats allow you to save? Why is Yorda so stupid? I'M RIGHT ABOVE YOU, TAKE MY FUCKING HAND.

I don't read too much into it. When you start questioning stuff like this, you have too much time on your hands. The games are supposed to be for entertainment, not realism.

Jam it back in, in the dark.

It's the same reason why most RPGs usually have a world population of 200. And why there is so much land in between cities. And why the world only has like 20 cities. Finally, the same reason why those houses in the cities have people in them and why they don't give a damn about you walking in, stealing an elixir off of the table and walk out of the house.

There's nowhere I can't reach.

Originally Posted by Elixir

These are the aspects of gaming that you're not meant to think of. It's like thinking "Why is an oversized purple dinosaur teaching kids how to read? Why does he have friends? Why are they implying that dinosaurs still exist?"

I did this with ICO. Why is there a specific box hidden in the corner, which convinently happens to fall somewhere allowing you to reach another destination? Why do stone seats allow you to save? Why is Yorda so stupid? I'M RIGHT ABOVE YOU, TAKE MY FUCKING HAND.

I don't read too much into it. When you start questioning stuff like this, you have too much time on your hands. The games are supposed to be for entertainment, not realism.

I'm not saying every time I load up a game I sit and ponder why the wolf I just killed is spewing gold and swords or why the only way to open a certain door in what is supposed to be merely a palace is 100 feet above the floor. You're right, that would indicate one not only having too much time on their hands, but not enjoying games as the escape from reality they're meant to be.

My point was that sometimes the thought just pops into my head that while it's good game design to have a complex path of ledges, poles to swing from, curtains to rip through, huge swinging axes to dodge, and other various dangers, it doesn't lend itself to an extremely immersive game experience. I've found the games I get the most into beyond simple enjoyment are the ones in which I'm doing things that are at least somewhat within the realm of human possibility.

Take Splinter Cell for example. Some people hate Splinter Cell, but I love the games. I love that everything Sam Fisher can do, a person in top physical condition could also do. To me that lends an extra bit of immersion to the game. I love my Prince of Persia, Ninja Gaiden, platformers, and my slew of FPS games that defy realism simply for the fact that you can take a slew of bullets and walk over top of a health pack to feel better. It just makes me chuckle :P

This thing is sticky, and I don't like it. I don't appreciate it.

Originally Posted by FadedReality

So you would think! Take a closer look.

Spoiler:

you will see in the magnification I've so generously provided that wonderboy has invisible government cloud-detector boots on his feet, complete with patented Stand on Clouds stumps. The Sega Master System simply could not render the invisible boots and the special stumps. It's actually a common misconception that he's barefoot.

I wonder if he ever felt aggrieved that, while they could supply him with cloud walking studs, they had never thought up any more advanced techniques in the means of personal protection than to lob bits of flint.

Come to think of it, we never do see a fully side-on Wonder Boy.



Is it possible there's a laser gun strapped to his back, out of view, for extreme circumstances only?

I am a dolphin, do you want me on your body?

Originally Posted by Kolba

I wonder if he ever felt aggrieved that, while they could supply him with cloud walking studs, they had never thought up any more advanced techniques in the means of personal protection than to lob bits of flint.

Come to think of it, we never do see a fully side-on Wonder Boy.



Is it possible there's a laser gun strapped to his back, out of view, for extreme circumstances only?

Perhaps. What we do know is that he went on to not only wear armor and brandish a sword:

Spoiler:

but also had opportunities to indulge in drinking and the redemption of sexual favors from dinosaurs:

Spoiler:

Most amazing jew boots

I had always wondered about some of the BAttlefield series. In BF2 you can fly a jet over the airstrip or aircraft carrier, and somehow magical floating mechanics will be able to fix your jet and re-arm it midflight. This also happens with helocopters.

Further, A medic can magically bring anyone back to life in a split second, even after being bombarded with artillary. The medic can also heal the most deadly gun wound by throwing magic healing bags at soldiers, which are sucked into the infantryman, healing them instantaneously.

Also you can jump from a 1 story building and use a parachute to avoid damage.

What kind of toxic man-thing is happening now?

If a game is geared more towards fantasy and is well done, then I'll suspend my disbelief moreso than a realistic game that has something quirky going on about it.

Like with the Mario games, I dont' question it, I just play it. But a game say, Indigo Prophecy, it sometimes irritates me when it tries to simulate real life only to fall short, like not being able to perform an action when you have something in your hand. As long as the game itself is done well, I won't question it.

FELIPE NO

I really like it when I can blatantly spot out impossible situations like that. I usually only do so when I really get into a game and excited. Then I start thinking random things like: "Why does Terra's group have this load of items, and when take control of Celes's group, they have the same amount and kinds of items? Did my inventory double?"

For stuff like that, then you could even think farther by saying that if this were a movie adaptation and we see Terra use a potion, and Celes use a potion as well in some other part of Kefka tower, we would assume the two groups just split up their inventory beforehand. Thus it would be impractical to split it into an exact ratio in-game.
yeah...

When I think of this issue I'm much more amused rather than disgusted at how impossible most situations like this would be.

"How can I suddenly "spark" this grandiose axe technique "fuji view" in battle? Would I have not been trying to hit in the most powerful way beforehand? So that implies I wasn't trying?"

"Why can I summon a meteor shower from outer space easily, but have to cast 3 white elemental spells in a row before I can call in some winged dudes to throw javelins?"

"Why can I light someone's afro on fire in a battle, but I can't raze the battlefield by summoning this gigantic fire bird?"

etc.
You know you love the fantasy

How ya doing, buddy?

I just want to know one thing: Where the hell did Dr. Wily get all of those Skull Castles from?

My guess: He just had an extended warranty on one and kept exchanging it after the old one was penetrated/got blown up.

Jam it back in, in the dark.