A question of Morality
 

Read my latest journal if you want to see why I am starting this thread.

I want to know what everyone here would do if they were put into the situation where they could easily steal the identities of thousands of people in an instant. Would you do it? Even knowing that it would hurt many families as they would have to deal with the mess you left with their credit? Or would you turn that information over to those who are responsible and left it out in the open for the entire world do see?

Now broaden this question out more. Are you the kind of person that if they found someone else's wallet that you would return it? Even if it had money in it? Or if not, why? I know some of us here have strong moral that have been set in place by our faith or other set of rules by which we live our lives, however a large number of people here have proclaimed themselves atheist. So the atheists of GFF, what guilds your morals of what are right and wrong?

If you take a stance on either side please defend your reasoning because I want to know why you would act either way in such a situation.

I know this is a highly objective subject, so please keep this discussion clean. Calling someone a nigger/retard/faggot/[insert random insult] is not conducive to the discussion.

Being atheist does not mean that you are devoid of all values or morals. From childhood one is taught how to be a good boy/girl. People are taught about basic responsibilities and civic duties in society. So again this question is extremely relative. Relative to the morals that a person is holding and what cultual values does his/her society promote?

I'd respect identity if it means securing my own identity.
I'm too goody-goody, I'd more likely return the wallet.

Exactly, this is a relative question and that is why I asked it because many people see if differently and I want to hear their reasoning behind what they think they would do in that situation. However I never said atheists were devoid of all values or morals, but they also don't necessarly have the same consequences set in front of them as say a christian who faces eternal damnation. I want to hear from both sides of the camp.

Well, I think it's wrong to overlap morality and religion; they're separate issues. To me, morality is simple. If it's harmful, it's wrong.

If given access to identities, I would not steal them. If I actually found a wallet, if I could identify the owner, I would return it. What if I just found a $20 on the sidewalk? Well, I'd keep that, but only because there's no surefire way to identify the owner.

Do no harm, that's how I go with it.

I don't think most christians percieve stealing a wallet or identity as something that's going to land them in hell though do they? I mean ultimately everyone answers to their own concious long before they answer to their religion even if the basic outlines of it are set by whatever they believe. It's a moot point I suppose. I just get snippy when people suggest that atheists or agnostics are somehow less moral by default.

Anyway I wouldn't steal a wallet as I feel that it's a violation of someones ability to live their life. A wallet I would return but I'd likely take the money and say it was gone when I found it as I'm poor as hell. If I were well enough off at the moment or the person looked like they were doing as bad or worse than me I wouldn't take it though.

Is it just me or does this seem more quiet place material? Admittedly anything that goes in their immediately gets drowned in lameness but still.

It's not just you.

Well recently I found a 10 dollar bill on the ground in the local mall during an event, I asked around to see if anyone had dropped it, then I told the security gaurd about it, but they said "finders keepers"

I ended up giving it to a friend though, I really have no idea why.

I have very strong morals but I'm not quite that extreme. If perhaps I had seen someone drop their money I would return it, but if not then it's mine.

I don't think I would steal identities, I couldn't deal with the thought of what that would do to other people's lives. If I do something morally wrong I get incredible guilt and nervousness. I'm not sure why, I guess my parents must have just been very strict. I see how religion ties into this though. It's strange to think that if you don't believe anything bad will happen to you, some people (like myself) won't do bad things simply because "it's wrong". Who made the rules?

Well, there are consequences to consider too but besides that credit and cash in a wallet are completely different. If I lost 100 bucks then I'd be pretty pissed off but I'll get over it and it really isn't a big deal. But with credit, once that's fucked up, you're fucked up. What do you think banks look at when you buy a house?? your credit. what about when you want to buy a car?? I'm pretty sure everyone wants their own house and car when they're old enough so you realize what's right and what's wrong.

To me, i am neutral, i am atheist and honestly if i saw someone drop money/wallet i would return it, if i found money/wallet but didn't see who dropped it i would claim it as my own. As for identity thief, it goes to the extent of wither or not i could feel guilt free with stealing someones identity and hurt the family. I would most likely just leave people to living their lives, i don't need to take someone else's identity on...

You understand that right and wrong are constructed before they are obtained, so you try to make the best decision possible through observation and analysis. Would I want someone to fuck me out of my money and identity? No, so what gives me the right to do it to somebody else? And more importantly, why would I need someone to tell me not to selfishly fuck people’s identities to begin with?

I don't need to fear eternal damnation to be a decent person. All it takes is a little empathy - would I want someone to walk off with my wallet or steal my identity? Not especially.

Those are my wicked atheist morals.

Not everyone sees stealing as wrong. Some people see it as a way to make a living. Otherwise we wouldn't have the massive problem with theft that we do. I'm sure their reasoning is some self justifying/entitlement bullshit, but that is besides the point.

I agree thought that one of the main reason why I wouldn't do that to someone else is because I don't want it to happen to me.

Ok lets open this up. What if the identity/wallet was someone you knew... and hated/strongly disliked? Would your actions still be the same as they would for a complete stranger?

They still see stealing as wrong, and their bullshit justification for taking such actions doesn't change that. They do it *knowing* that it is wrong.

Thusly, you get weak willed Atheists and weak willed Theists stealing.

As for your questions, I would return the wallet. I would never commit identity theft. If it was someone I disliked I may keep the money, but am not entirely sure. It might be more statisfying to return it intact. Depends on the nature of the dislike.

I do not hate.

People who are perfectly willing to do identity theft are probably doing it out of both the need to survive and desperation, not so much because they don’t see anything ‘wrong’ with it. If they don’t see anything wrong with it, it’s just the result of that survival instinct and desperation. If it's not this, it's a result of some other unhealthy mind state, like getting a rush out of it. Think about it, would a healthy, well off person feel the need to steal identities based of the simple premise that they don’t' see it as wrong?

My man, you're thinking backwards in my opinion. How in the world is this besides the point? To focus on the idea that they don’t see it as wrong is to focus on the effect and not the cause. If you don't figure out the cause of why something is happen, how can you expect to fix the problem? Only thing you can do is acknowledge what's wrong, then what? Should it just go away now?

If it was just hate, then yes, I would. I find that when I hate something it's usually a result of me not understanding it well enough. So my course of action (after I get over the fact that I'm mad) is to attempt to understand it better. But realistically this would really depend on a lot of conditions. For example, if I hated the person because they fucked me over in that past, then I might consider it. But it still would depend on how many variables are in the picture. How bad did they screw me? If I get even, do I effect more than just him, like his family? What's my current situation, do I need to get even or am I just being childish and petty? Etc.