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Song of the Week - Qualification: Quiet Voice -conditional duty-
PLEASE ONLY VOTE IF YOU PARTICIPATE IN SONG OF THE WEEK
This is a poll on official policy, so I'd appreciate it if only people who vote and/or nominate vote on this matter. If I don't recognize your name, I won't count your vote with the final tally. Thanks in advance. :) ~~~~ ^ Totally just copy-pasted that header, even though this isn't really a policy decision. Quiet Voice -conditional duty- nominator: Djinova This track is by ZTS. In addition to a bunch of doujin video game arrangements like this one, he also has four VGM composition credits:
Note that all of these credits are collaborative, and he(?) has never written the complete soundtrack to a game by himself. Good enough to make this original work eligible? Vote y/n/dc now! See here for brief previous discussion, and populate this thread with further discussion. The poll will close at about the same time or so as Week 122 voting. |
I think that even if he isn't the most active vgm composer yet, it seems that he's starting a career here, so I voted in favor of it.
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I've been busy, so I missed the discussion in the main thread. If this were one of his VGM tracks I'd have no problem at all, but the original track makes me wary of another Ryuichi Sakamoto '79.
I'm confused, though. Djinova's original nomination says that the track is an "Arrangement from a game called "天使のいない12月." Now I can't read those moon characters, but it sounds like the music might have appeared in a game at some point, at which case all the problems vanish. Then again, it sounds like it might also be doujin, an arrangement of a track ZTS didn't write. Clarification? |
December When There Is No Angel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If this were one of his game tracks I'd have 0 problem with it, but this would be like nominating a Mustin remix when he's only done a couple tunes and sound effects here and there. At least a full soundtrack would be where I draw the line. |
The track I nominated is a doujin arrangement of a certain original track that has appeared in the visual novel called "天使のいない12月.". The arrangement itself has never appeared in any game. The original track is "無口な歌声" (Quiet Voice) written by "石川真也" (Shinya Ishikawa).
source: “VŽg‚Ì‚¢‚È‚¢12ŒŽ Original Sound Track |
Ah, thanks for the clarification :) Unfortunately, that makes me inclined to say "no," since doujin isn't normally eligible. An original track, yeah, but not doujin.
That kind of makes me question the need for a poll in the first place, since it seems like the track should be automatically disqualified. |
He has game composition credits on 4 games, no matter what the level, that's good enough for me. I would allow this.
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This is a tough one. As much as I would like to hear the track on SotW, I'd have to go with a no here since the track is a doujin and not an original work or an official arrangement. Unless there is a decision at the policy level to allow doujin in the contest.
But to be honest, I'm not certain that I can actually articulate the value in differentiating a doujin from an official remix/arrangement. Hypothetical scenario: A DJ arranges a VGM track as an official arrangement and then rearranges the track again but this time as a doujin though retaining the DJ's signature style used even in the official arrangement. Can the doujin really be considered to be that much different from the official arrangement, structure of arrangement aside? (Assume the DJ doesn't encounter an issues with copyrights etc.) Hope the above made sense (I'm typing this at an unearthly hour...). |
Hmm... I'd rather be lenient with rules so I'd err on the side of letting something enter... But I don't know. If it was a track from a game I'd be ready to cheer it on, but as it is, I think I'll vote for "abstain". Think of it as a "maybe..."
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I'm curious as to just how much work he has done outside of games.
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As a side note, since the change from the one-game-and-you're-a-composer rule, S.S.H's current status as a composer is debatable because he's only composed the soundtracks to two games. We haven't had anything to actually test it, though. Quote:
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It comes down to the purpose of the competition for me, namely highlighting obscure game soundtracks and composers. This nom is, when it comes down to it, a doujin track from a doujin arranger. Using a coincidental smattering of game credits in order to squeeze it in just seems to be missing the point. If you like the composer, nominate his compositions. If you like the source, nominate the source.
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I'm personally not feeling as though the credits are enough; each is collaborative and we cannot say for what percentage of each ZTS was responsible.
Sorry. If it's any consolation, this same criteria nixes a different song that I otherwise would've liked to nominate. |
If MintJam was allowed, ZTS should be allowed. No confusion here.
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I am amazed that you went to that trouble.
And also a bit frightened. |
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3 or so of his nominations including the latest winner are doujin arrangements done by a doujin group called "Studio A" with their main artists being "A'" and "Namihei" (VGM credits: 6 tracks for Princess Waltz OST, afaik). But they aren't considered "doujin" simply, because these arrangements appeared on an album released by some official producers. Whether a track is under the name of a small doujin release group or included in an official album to fill out space, does it really change the character of the track? Does it sound more official than it sounds doujin? Hence I totally avoid character discussions when it comes to nominations, because it can get very deep and I feel I might miss something the other person know. I didn't "tried" the backdoor for this nomination, but abided by previous instances shown by CHz (he's missing "Nightrain" by S.S.H, and "A rude performance -spicy Jam mix-" by Mintjam track (by _DH_, I like these tracks so I remembered), and nominated this with confidence of not violating any SoTW rules. Obviously I think partial credits in 4 albums suffice, which shows he can cooperate for different projects and is not just chance-composer for one game, but that's why the poll is here. |
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So, how many more tracks does ZTS need to compose before he can get his foot in this particular door?
Achievement Unlocked: Composed more than 87.5% of an official soundtrack |
Like I said, 100% is a good place to start. You may joke about achievements and stuff, but the fact is we do have to draw the line somewhere, or else any OCReMixer with 1 official track is eligible. ZTS clocks in at barely a third of a soundtrack on average, even excluding DJMAX and Higurashi.
And again my main issue is that nominating a doujin track from a doujin guy just seems to miss the point. Rude Performance and Nightrain are both original tracks, so you're seeing their skill as composers fully showcased there. Nominating their arrangements was iffy (I made a big hoopla about the FF Adventure track too), but doing the same thing for someone even less established pushes it over for me. Anyway, I've said my piece. I don't really take this as seriously as it looks like I do (I mean it's not even a real contest...), so sorry if I'm going all nerdfight on you guys. |
So, regardless of cumulative credits, an artist must compose a whole VGM album before he/she can be considered a VGM composer. That's a rather arbitrary rule. It'll also rule out plenty of composers whose discographies are exclusively collaborations, like the entire Leaf Sound Team -- whose (arranged) work is the track in question here.
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After considering it, I'm tempted to think yes on this issue. He isn't someone who has a career outside of game music and just happens to compose something in a game, like Ryuichi Sakamoto. You can see he's done doujin music along with his few credits, so it looks like he's aiming to become a video game musician, and that's where his popularity will come from if he continues. I guess what I'm saying is, there's a difference between someone who just dabbles in game music for a limited number of tracks, and someone devoted to game music who's still working their way up the ladder. One I'm okay with, and the other I'm not. |
Ah, so much complexity. I feel like I'm reading the US tax code instead of the SotW rules :D
Am I alone in longing for a simpler time, a time when people nominated music from video games? But even I've put up an original track recently... |
I´ve voted for yes...
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