Gamer Girl or Hot Girl
 

Sorry, the thread title is a little biased. My question can extend to girls as well.

A good portion of the GFF community is gamers. I was wondering if "gaming" is a characteristic you look for in girls or guys.

Personally, I dated a conventionally "hot" girl in high school. She had blond hair, green eyes and was athletic. She hated games though so I felt embarassed talking about it around her...;_; We eventually broke up due to compatability issues but you know, a pretty face and body will only get you so far.

Now I'm dating a gamer/anime girl. It may seem strange that I take "gaming" as a consideration but it is much easier for 2 main reasons.
1) We share a common hobby
2) I don't have to be ashamed of it
I felt like because our hobbies lined up, a lot of our personality traits did as well. :)

So my real question isnt about gaming or not gaming as much as it is about compatability. I read through the "Hot or Not" thread and "Looks Matter."

So yeah, discuss...?

Gaming isn't exactly a trait I look for in a girl. What matters most to me is not that she be a gamer, just that she accepts the fact that I am one. I've worked in gaming retail hell long enough to see those types that sit there on their boyfriends arms crying "I WANNA GO THIS STUFF IS BORING" after the guy has been in there for all of about a minute and a half. Those are the types I cannot stand.

Maybe this is why I've never had a real lasting relationship. The girls that don't mind your nerdy habits don't seem to come around too often.

No way. Gaming is my hobby, I don't care if a girl games or not. It's not necessary.

My girlfriend and I play games together. It's definitely a very nice point. I guess I could've got along with one who doesn't plays, I don't think it would've gone over as well, because I play games a lot. Conveniently enough, I also find my girlfriend hot, (though some people may not consider her so, she fits my tastes well), so I I am happy both ways.

I do think finding someone with similar interests is the most important thing though. You two can have more fun together if you like the same things.

Physical looks simply do not last. Time takes its toll on everyone. The good looks fade. The hair turns grey and falls out. The skin wears thin, wrinkles, stretches, and sags. The sex drive dries up and stops all together.

Having some interests in common is a good place to start off. Its also important to have differences. I've met some people who seem to think they need to find someone with almost identical interests or personalities. I think that finding someone who was pretty much just like me would get a annoying after a while, as well as deprive me of the opportunity to challenge myself to grow.

It would be ultra-nice if you were able to meet up with a gaming girl. That would be ideal for me, since I don't know if I could stand a girl that gets bored of video games after a minute. I wouldn't mind her on the sole condition, that she wouldn't mind my gaming.
A gamer girl could be the ugliest person ever, and I'd still choose her over a hot one, just because I know that we share the common interests that will last for a quite a while. A hot girl would turn me off if she couldn't relate to the things I like as well.

Having a girlfriend would mean sharing things with her and if I have to hide a side to me than that's me not being honest in the relationship. Honesty is important and I feel that if she doesn't mind then it's not too much of a problem. It's an important part of me and it means we lose out on this link.

Looks to me matter. Initially at least. That's not to say I MUST go out with someone HOT, I'll go out with someone who I find looks acceptable. I know it is disgraceful of me to be judge, but at ugly it could be a while before I look beyond that.

I think I have come across one girl who was into games, and she was quite hot but since then we have lost contact. I'd like to know some girls in gaming but unfortunately I don't know many girls full stop. ;_;

Every guy I dated never played video games and couldn't understand why I did. I consider it my version of watching sports.

It's one of those things I do that they didn't. If people can't deal with that, then they shouldn't be in a relationship.

And, Ronz, I've been in EB and heard that "I WANNA GO" line from some girl. I just looked at her boyfriend and rolled my eyes. He did, too. He told her to wait outside if she was going to act like a baby. I laughed. To myself, but I laughed.

Well, I don't game as much as I used to, but as long as she doesn't get pissy when I do have some games going or whatever, I'm cool with it.

It would be more fun if she was at least into gaming, in that it's something in common, something to converse about, and it's always easier to talk when you have something to talk about.

So it all really comes down to attitude, and if she's accepting of my habits or not. If she's like those girls that Ronz describes, than forget that.

Actually, if I found a girl who could own me in an RTS, I'd have to marry her.

That being said, why do people suck at RTS games.

Holy shit rock on. Last semester I took a whole course on this precise subject. There are a ton of psychological underpinnings related to causes of this.

Anyway, when it comes to hobbies, the only commonality I have with my girlfriend is reading. I can't really talk about Zelda or Star Wars or Lord of the Rings or other things equally awesome with her because she'll make fun of me for liking it; the only sensible counterattack is to make fun of her for not liking it. I guess I'm grateful for it, though, because it leaves room to explore other areas of common interest.

My girlfriend once played through Secret of Mana with me.

She's not a gamer by any means... you know, her brother had a nintendo at home, played her some Mario 64, etc, but not much else. I admire that she had enough of an open mind to share something like SoM with me even though she didn't have much interest in it. It made me really feel special.

So in a way it's good that she's not a gamer. But I'd like to convert her, if it's possible.

Most of my friends are big gamers, but I'm not. I'll play on my old Super Nintendo, and there are some new games I like, but I don't play that often. That being said, I don't mind hanging out with my friends while they play video games, and I only start complaining after watching them play first person shooters for four hours. As long as the game interests me, I'll sit and watch them play. So, even though I'm not a big gamer, I tend to like guys that are into gaming because I just seem to get along with them better than I get along with other people.

You must slay them at parties.

Personally speaking, anyone who says looks aren't important simply hasn't had very much experience dating. But that's not what the thread is about; no, I don't look for matching hobbies while looking for a partner. I'm one of those people who are strangely competitive but not very good at anything; I wouldn't sit well dating someone who's better than me. I also like it when people nerd it up about something they're passionate about; I love learning new things. If he's passionate about his hobbies that's cool, he can educate me and I can become a more well-rounded person. Hopefully I can have the same effect, too.

Absolutely. I don't care how much you love their mind, if the gear comes off and there isn't something there that makes you want to throw them against a wall and fuck them until you speak a language you don't even know, it isn't going to last.

Anyway, personally, gaming is entirely secondary so long as they're respectful. I'll put up with hobbies of theirs if I don't overly like them, so long as she understands that some days I will ditch her to play through some game I'm utterly taken with. I haven't had many girls with issues like this, but the ones who did, well... gaming was the least of my problems. You should have heard the shit I took for my pub crawling. They don't make it past about a week, so it really isn't a problem though.

The short answer? Neither. A complete person is vastly superior.

That's where you're going wrong mate. You shouldn't ever get involved with any bird who can't stick it out in the juicer as long as you can. There's nothing worse than some whiny bint nagging one of your mates about going home when you're all getting nicely hammered.

But otherwise, the only interests that matter to me in a girl would be their taste in films and music. I ain't going out with someone who doesn't like horror films or anyone who listens to all that guitar shite kids seem so fond of these days. My current girlfriend l9ikes a bunch of games on the DS which is handy as it gives her something to do if I'm playing something else.

But choosing someone for their hobbies over thier looks is retarded and symptomatic of low self esteem.

I know some girls who game and they're not hot but they're really pretty and attractive. (hot and pretty are different) Anyway, I think it's better to have a girl who enjoys gaming that way you both can play some games together or sometimes one person can play and the other watches. Some people rather watch others play instead of wanting to join in the game.

I guess I got lucky...my girlfriend is extremely attractive, then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and now is "pissed" at me because I got her readdicted to gaming.

It makes me laugh since shes a good sport about it and calls me more competitive that her, which is BS...lol.

But mainly for me it was, if you can accept me being a nerd and spending alot of my time playing games and we want to go out, cool. If not...GTFO!

What about a middle ground? You know, a relatively attractive, but not quite "hot" girl who occasionally plays video games? It's all about compromises people.

I dumped the bitch. Really, Shin. What do you think of me not to realise that?

Having a girl that enjoys gaming is a plus but not a definitive factor in a relationship. You can always have them watching you as you play and sometimes get her involved. Not always, of course. You'll bore her to death as if she took you to shopping, for example.

Looks are important, but not as important as personality in a relationship, you could be going out with the most attractive person in the world and they could be less interesting than a wet sponge, so looks aren't always the most important aspect of a relationship.
Having a partner that shares your interests (i.e. gaming) is a good basis for a relationship, wheter they be hot or not.
I would settle for that.

No one who has ever posted on this forum will ever date Jessica Simpson, so I don't know why she keeps getting brought up every single time someone mentions attractiveness.

You do realize you're the first to bring her up in this thread?

:eyebrow:

No, someone else brought up the 'perfect broad except she's devestatingly dull' strawman that the perpetually lonely beat on when someone suggests that physical attraction is important.

I'll explain it again for you if you need. My time is valueless.

Guess I missed the joke. But please, Jessica Simpson is far from perfect.

I'd take an appreciation or interest in gaming as a bonus trait in anyone I dated as opposed to a 'must have' quality. Then again, I myself play games less and less regularly, so it's not really a major concern.

Like Shin, I have come to stop dating girls whose musical taste clashes too much with mine. It really, really doesn't work.

Other than that, I can get anyone to enjoy a video game. I got my mother addicted to Pikmin 2, and my dad is a huge fan of Yoshi Touch & Go. My last ex-girlfriend (who hated games when I started dating her) is currently an avid World of Warcraft player, and I play Puzzle Pirates with my current girl.
So no, it's not a prerequisite trait, because they'll end up gamers if they spend more than a day with me anyway. =D

As for the whole "attractiveness is important", of course that's true. But, I think it's more important to guys than to girls. Admit it lads, you don't want to be dating some ugly broad, no matter how open-minded you are.
My experience is girls go more for the "charm" factor: ie. smooth talking, cocky/confident, sense of humour...

(I suppose that if you define attractiveness as "the traits that make a person attractive", then charm and even personality rank among them too, but you know what I mean.)

EDIT: I like your av/sig, Hydelloon. ;)

If you have to ask this question, it would seem you have one of several problems:

A) You play too many videogames to take the time out of your day to do something someone else might enjoy, and foregoing the opportunity to grow and expand your horizons.

B) You're a codependent personality that spends every waking moment with your partner. Seriously, there should be plenty of inbetween time to do what you want to do for yourself.

C) Shin is an alcoholic.

Ah, hell, that makes two of us.

Haha, I like how you got your family to game. My parents used to play DDR and my dad played Nintendo. The music taste thing is a big one. I totally forgot about that.

I like your avatar and sig.

Actually, I was just curious what other people thought on the issue. Surasshu brought up a good point with the music that I should mention again. I spend a lot of time at college going to parties, art festivals and music events with my girlfriend. I do spend a lot of time with my girlfriend but I think there is enough inbetween time because we study different majors so at least I don't see her at class and study sessions.

I'm also an alcoholic.

He's not an alcoholic. An alcoholic is someone who suffers from inebriation. He, much like myself, enjoys every minute of it.

Anyway, to stay on topic, it's funny that I was just thinking about this last weekend. I took this girl out to lunch and we just sat for a couple hours talking about this exact topic. Our conclusion: No. It's not imperative that your significant other plays games. It is, however, important that they respect your knack for playing them. I mean, if you don't click, you just don't click. There's no hidden agenda here. However... If you play video games to the point where it obstructs your actual relationship then it does become a problem and you need a new hobby.

Thankfully I don't play that much games. Although I can't speak for WOW players....

>_> now to get back on topic...

i don't think i could date a guy who doesn't play video games, or at least has some kind of history of videogames. Either that or he needs to share the love of anime or SOMETHING nerdy. I usually don't care about looks, but he can't be damn ugly as hell.

and if he's a WoW player i'll have to say...uh...no. I have that thin of a personality. All the WoW players i've came across have a certain...bad zing to their personality. The kind that says that some other mmorpg sucks when they haven't even played it. And that just pisses me off

I think it's the fact that they no longer live in the real world, so much as they live in the city of STORMWIND.

I find that having a significant other who at least understands your hobbies (including gaming) is extreamely helpful to a relationship. I also find that it can be a source of headache, especually when you both play the same MMO and you have an argument later about the loot that dropped :)

Seriously, though, my wife was a mild gamer when I met her and I have slowly turned her into more of a gamer as well as hooked her onto anime. It has its advantages as well as disadvantages, as our tastes now overlap and that creates some unique situations sometimes.

That's how I feel too...minus being married

...What?

Actually, after playing WoW for 2 months it's become more like a visual AIM that I pay $15 a month for. I'm bored of the gameplay already. :(

And I don't really care if someone I date plays videogames. I don't play them much these days anyway. Having them as a common interest is all good and fine, but just the same, I'm not going to demand my significant other play tennis just because I like to.

my girlfriend is very attractive. Her and I play multiplayer games together all the time, and even play through some single player ones together by switching. This type of girl is rare, but I've never really looked for any girl that wasn't a gamer in hopes of finding one like this.

we have a lot of other things in common too, but pertaining to this thread, thats really all I have to say.

My girlfriend is actually just a regular girl, but I often have to pull HER away from the games shelves in retail stores.
Littel iromic actually. looks like we switched the "CAN WE GO NOW" lines. I pull mher away from game stores and i can shop for hours in all the clothes stores:P

The hot girl. Any day if I had the choice. People always will have something to talk about and I'd like to take a break from hearing about music, movies, games and stuff that I already know all about. I never go out looking for girls and I espicially would never go out looking for a 'gamerr gurl'. If the person is tolerable and plays games, even cooler but its not a 'selling' point at all.

My girlfriend used to be a pretty avid gamer, as did I -- back when we had just gotten to know each other, I'd hang out at her place and help her get through Final Fantasy IX.

That said, I'd pick the most compatible girl over the hottest girl any day of the week. How should I put it.. a hot girl who has no interests in common with me, or that I don't click with with on a level deeper than physical attraction, is so boring.

I think my girlfriend is plenty attractive physically, thank you very much, but if she was the most beautiful girl who ever lived but had nothing in common with me, I would not even think of dating her. I like that I can talk with her about video games, or microbiology, or the current crisis in Lebanon, and she can match me topic for topic, and she's extremely witty, to boot. Now, that's attractive.

A woman who proudly wears the title of "gamer" is, in my eyes, a level above those who don't. I've dated enough non-gamers to know that, given the amount of time I spend gaming (or talking about gaming), it's a requirement. This is why I have started using the third spectrum. I will explain.

Whenever we see a member of the appropriate sex, we place them against two spectrums of analysis: physical and personal. The first relates to the amount of percieved physical attraction, the second is the mental and emotional compatibility, or chemistry. The third spectrum... well, that is constructed from the persons abilities at various games and genres.

And yeah, Denicalis, the complete person IS superior. I've vowed to marry the woman who can own my ass in all the games that matter. ;)

my wife is both, thats y i got married

her undead warlock will own u

If she didn't game at all, I'd get sucked into whatever she's doing and game only a bit on the side. I'm a gamer, though I can shut off playing the games, but not my interest in them. I've always had to know about the newest games, what is considered "good" and ground breaking.

Looks/attractiveness is important though. 'Cause if you are not impressed by how they look, let them find someone else who will be (assuming they aren't a walking ass-face). I'd hate to find end up with a girl who isn't pleased with my looks. What kind of idiot would that make me feel like.

Alot of attractiveness also has to do with how you present yourself. A great example: I can think of 2 girls right now, both a bit over-weight (who isn't) but one who actually tries to be attractive (successfully) and one who doesn't (successfully). I'm sorry but not taking care of yourself to the point of attempting to impress people is a turn off to me. If you look bad, try to do a little something to solve it. Anything clothes, hair, make-up wise can do wonders, it doesn't even need to be alot.

Overall, gaming for me is low on the list. She'll either deal with it, or I'll just pick up a more musical hobby.

I can't say I'd ever be with a girl who isn't a gamer only because I seek out things that we have in common before considering a relationship. Every girl I've been with has been a friend first, and because of that groundwork of friendship, I got to know what they liked and so forth that got us to the next level.

But I mean if I had the sudden choice of hot girl or girl with common interests, I'd choose girl with common interests. Hot girl wouldn't last anyway.

I'd pick hot girl for that very reason!

I'd pick the hot girl, although not just any hot girl, but one that's going to last long. It'll just feel weird for me if my girlfriend is into gaming lol. Cuz at the moment I'm not even into gaming anymore. Overclocking is my only passion for computer now.

I would pick the gamer girl... I mean... she would have to be decent looking.

Honestly... people say looks arent everything, but at first they are everything. You have to be physically attracted to talk to them... usually.

But for me to kno she was a gamer girl that would mean i would have to kno her (b/c most girls arent proud of that).

In the end i would pick the gamer girl. B/c you would have something to do instead of wasting money.

I'd pick the hot girl. Gaming is just one hobby and its a very unimportant one. I mean you may not even be into games ten years from now.

And she might not be so hot ten years from now.

Still, it limits you to a smaller crowd of people if you only look for gaming girls. Then you have to remember that not all people who have your same interest are going to be perfect for you.

Similar interests are a lot better place to start than looks. At least in my experiences. Who's to say that gamer girls are ugly anyways?

Yeah, You're right. Who's to say gamer girls are ugly anyways?

Who's to say all hot girls are evil bitches and will dump you and of course, if they're hot, they have to have absolutely NO Common interests with you? Hm...seems like most people in this thread seem to be saying that in so many words. Seems everyones doing a bit of stereotyping here.

I still don't think common interests are where I'd want to start. I'd like to be attracted to the girl, THEN see if we have common interests or at least a compatible personality beforehand. Once again I'll say: I can give a rats ass less if shes a 'gamerr gurll". That makes no difference to me. I hardly would consider myself a 'gamer' anymore.

The things I am looking for in my discussion are clearly outlined in my first post.

Clearly you have stated that you prefer looks. That is perfectly fine.

Anyways, I would also like to point out that I also said:
I never mentioned anything about hot girls being evil bitches. I simply said that similar interests are a good place to start. While you may think certain beliefs are implied, do not put words into other user's mouths.

Why can't you have both? I've always dated gamer guys and they certainly weren't ugly, but I'm shallow too. I can have my girly moments, but I feel much more comfortable around guys. (maybe it's just the attention.) ;) My husband loves the fact that I play games and his friends get jealous since I'm not the type to be like "hey stop playing and focus on me plz"

I can't say that the majority of gamers are hot, but then again, neither is the general population. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

I know what you mean. I guess thats what a lot of people have been trying to say in the thread so far. I take it because you've always dated gamer guys, its a quality you look for in a person.

There are lot more people who are married at this board than I expected.

I think I'd go for a balance of the two. Sure, it'd be nice to have a hot girl who happened to love video games, but such types are rare. Realistically, though, I'd take a girl who had more in common with me over a beautiful body with no common ground any day.

I play games a lot, so I feel more comfortable around guys who have the same interests. Guys who have been interested in me who don't play games end up all "shocked" thinking I'm some sort of polite, nice girl that would go home and make dinner and rub their feet. I just tend to gravitate towards guys who like video games, even if I don't find them attractive, they're at least more interesting to me. I have a weakness for dorks/geeks ;) Not the socially inept ones or anything, but guys who are kind of shy, like games but are often too scared to approach a girl, I like talking to those guys and finding out who they really are because they are certainly more interesting than the muscle heads who are brain dead due to too much sun.

Just from experience, dating people who are really hot, they obviously know it, and the ego/self esteem issues that come with that are just too annoying for me and I find that so shallow. If they're modest, that's different. Granted I'm shallow too so I'm being a hypocrite here, but I'd rather be with someone (friend or relationship) who I can help boost their self esteem (even better if there are no self esteem issues), not burst their overinflated head.

Generally guys who play video games that I've come across, also have other things in common with me too. Whether it be music, fantasy, Star Wars (hehehe) and other geeky stuff. It's hard enough for me to find a girl friend that likes similar things (so it's hard for a guy too to find a girl for a relationship), my best friends do, but otherwise, I know a lot of girls who are only into girly things so I tend to avoid girls night out and just have lan parties with the boys.

Haha, thats awesome! I've met a lot of gamer girls at college and that was one of the biggest surprises for me actually. Thats sweet.

Yup, they're there, just gotta look harder ;) Female gamers are on the rise, they're starting off with the Sims first and moving onto MMOs. :p

Once again I wander back into a TQP post and the majority of what I see are pain in the ass teenage virgins running their fucking mouths about women and relationships, completely unable to actually grasp any actual content outside of "pretty girls are bitches" and "gamer girlz aren't realz." With a few obvious exceptions (you can skip this if you're one of them, if you understand that there is no such thing as a true sweeping generalization such as "all gamer girls aren't pretty" or "all pretty girls refuse to game" this isn't meant for you.)

GROW THE FUCK UP.

Do you prefer pretty girls or gamer girls? How about a well-rounded individual you fucking prats? How about a girl who turns you on with her looks, has interests in common with you, AND likes things you don't know about so, god forbid, you might fucking learn something new?

I don't understand why this sub-forum always has to play with absolutes like this. Is it because the majority of people who post here are 14? Is it because so many of you don't have life experience? Again, if you're one of the few moderates in here, I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about the repeat-offender children who are running their mouths like they know something about life.

I restate an earlier point: Until you know something about anything, shut the fuck up. You're not only not helping, you're probably hindering someone else.

Sorry for acting 14 Deni. In fact, I'm sorry for starting a thread that has enraged you...;_;

But Deni put up a good point, unless you are going to add to the discussion with some personal testimony or real life experience, better stay out. If you are just making projections or guesses, its just taking up digital space. Its not like digital space is limitless. Gosh

Hyde, you weren't the point of my post. You brought up a simple question, if you had to choose between these two traits, which would you choose? Other people turned it into "NEVER THE TWO SHALL MEET" bullshit.

Post of the motherfucking year right there. You want to see who I have issue with, Hyde? Right there. At least he didn't go on to express how he can't understand why women don't want him, even though he's pathetic and exudes no confidence at all. It baffles.

(INTERNET EDIT) Jesus christ, get the sand out of your vagina.

I posted that semi-sarcastically but as a viable answer to this other-wise retarded thread. "hot girl or gamer girl"

First of all, the title implies that you have a choice between a girl that is aesthetically appealing and a girl who is into playing video games. Using simple logic I'd estimate that that "hot girl" is not into playing video games, and that "gamer girl" is vice-versa, not visually appealing.

Thus I choose the "hot girl." I have no fucking interest in a girl who plays video games, I'm not forbidding women of the masses to quit playing video games and get plastic surgery, I'm simply stating what I prefer.

If you want me to expound further, I will, just to appease your feminazi ass.

Similar interests go a long way? Nah, not really. I don't want my girlfriend to be sitting down playing video games with me, that's reserved for me and my friends, or when I'm alone... typically bored, and in desire for something to help me pass the time.

I would much rather BE with my girl. And no, I'm not going to concede to man's innate chauvinistic nature and say that I just want to fuck her 24/7. But no, I would liek to be with her. Go out on dates, talk to her [actually fucking be involved in a conversation] and have us enjoy ourselves.

Next time I'd appreciate you not deleting my post and attempting to hurt my "feelings" and self-esteem with your slanderous ways. Calm the fuck down, it's the internet.

First and foremost, it was deleted by a moderator, not by Deni because your post was too short.

Secondly, just because it is the internet does not mean you should act stupid. Read the first post, not just the thread title.

I deleted your spammy post, Void. Not Denicalis or anyone else. Only mods can delete posts.

Your post was removed because all it said was "hot girl". You offered no reason why. There was no discussion value, so I removed it.

Also, there will be no ROFL-ing in this thread.

http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/cu...ilepic27_3.gif

The face of the modern feminazi apparently.

Mate, your post didn't get any of that across. It wasn't ironic. It was just fucking shoddy. Get defensive all you want, but it got deleted by a moderator because it was fucking pointless. We'd been arguing an actual point before you showed up with your postcount boosting filler. But hey, good cover. It worked like magic.

Isn't that basically what Deni said? Admit it, you didn't read his post at all.

rofl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow, it's a brave new world, ain't it?

Okay to again further explain my opinion on the entire topic, there are in this universe such things as human beings with varied genetic structure and... dare I say, souls? Thus every one is an individual, communism won't ever work, blah blah blah.

Since everyone is an individual they all have their qualities that you love/hate about them, and it just fuels your preference over the years of meeting different people and never cracking through the facade. So under the umbrella of simply dating members of the opposite [or same] sex, I, Void [not void of mind, although that was admittedly clever] would have to say that I would put physical appearance rather high on my criterion... much... much higher than their interest in video games.

When it comes to true love, and marriage, and all of that good stuff. Of course she would have to be all-around a wonderful, beautiful person. Inside and out. Because like interests in video games and etcetera, surface beauty withers, and you don't want to stick around with a bitch like that for that long...

Yep. I went back and skimmed through and realized my opinion on the matter along with my feelings on this subforum are 100% in synch... o_O

What the hell are you talking about? Why are you arguing with someone with the same opinion as you? :doh:

It isn't an argument.

Does that make you a feminazi?

No, but it does make him someone who probably should have shot himself in the foot when it was in his mouth.

Well, it does pay to read the posts so you dont look dumb.

But back on topic. Deni, I happen to agree with your arguments. I don't understand why people are seperating "hot" and "gaming". I was more interested, when I started this thread, whether or not gaming is a characteristic one looks for. As silly as it sounds, it is one of those things that is on the back of my mind. Certainly I notice a girl's physical attributes first. Its nice to be able to tell a girl that "gaming" is your hobby and not get strange looks.

And I also posed the topic of compatability as a sub-discussion. I think that is where the issues arose. Or maybe its because some users read only the title and decide to post. =|

I think it's best not to think of your interest in gaming as "staying in the closet."

It certainly isn't the best conversation starter. But if you really like a girl, and have been dating her for a couple of months, and she dumps you because of your interest in videogames [which is really common in today's world] then she really isn't worth it.

But if you're ditching her to play video games, and see it as an alternative to being with her, she really has no choice but to leave you. Girls need attention, first and foremost, and they want to be your number 1 priority.

I've never had an experience where video games came between us, but I have had experience where religion did... and I applied the same logic to that, that if she wishes to leave me because of such ideals then she isn't worth it.

If your woman left you 2 months into your relationship when she found out your played video games; not only was she NOT for you, you are a tool.


I don't know how you can put religious beliefs and video games on the same plane of existence, but I do see where you're coming from. People aren't raised with the belief in Nintendo Almighty and weekly therapeutic EGM study after all.

Have you ever actually TALKED to SOLDIER?

Yes, but I don't think that ONE misfired cumshot should speak for this entire demographic.

It's "[ b ]" not "[ bold ]".

Damn, you win this round, Carlos Mencia.

good you learned your lesson, many, many do not. It's not about the fact the she plays games or watches anime but more of the fact of finding someone that has alot in common with you. Someone you can relate to, if that means they can talk on the same level with you when it comes to games and anime then hurray there you go. This is redundant I know but I'm just saying it's more then just games and anime I am looking for(although it is a part of it) It's what we have in common period.

Gaia Online, then, or gamefaqs. Penny Arcade's forums. Name it, man.

OK... So cumshots might get "misfired" more often than one might think. But just because they gather like a swarm of moths to one large flame doesn't mean they speak for everyone. :/

I'm just saying that thank god most of them are male, it saves on forced sterilization.

So you basically learned that personality is more important than looks. Good job.

A girl who games and watches anime is definately a plus, but it's not what I go around looking for. Lol, I don't join the anime club to find girls. :P So I guess I do base my first impressions on looks, everyone does... but the personaliy has to fit as well. The day you find a girl who is attractive and compatible to you, ohh its beautiful. Like everything has led up to this point lol. And you're like, "wait, you're amazingly hot and you play counterstrike?! NO!!". Anyways...

BTW, is this anime/gaming girl a tad weird? Like, is inlove with Japan for some weird reason, attempts the "americanized lolita look" and is part of alot of online communities? Stray away!

This is most definitely a generational thing. My husband is mildly amused by my gaming, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that he would rather I didn't play games at all. I know of one other person my age in real life who I would consider a gamer and she, like me, doesn't discuss it much with other people. The only way I found out about her is because I caught her taking her Gameboy Advance out of her purse one day at work when I walked past her office. I would love to have a picture of my face at that moment.

My girlfriend has little to no interest in games, except for the occasional Mario Kart on her brother's DS, but she isn't bothered by my gaming. I still favour being with her than playing some game, so it's not really an issue. Say we meet in the evening, she stays until 1 AM (her parents don't like it when she sleeps here everytime), and after that I play some games untile 4-5 AM, depending on if I have to get up at 7 or 8AM. Luckily I don't need a lot of sleep (3 hours, 5 if I got drunk), so I never have to bother her with my gaming habits.

Like most people have already said, it's compatability that really matters most.

I'll put myself up as an example. I'm an average asian female in early to mid twenties, very short, mid-length sleek straight black hair, very prominent eyebrows, medium olive tone skin. Whether that is "attractive" to people, that's their decision, so I'll leave it up to them.

On the other hand, I play games. Not a whole lot (not to the extent of my guy buddies or my boyfriend), but enough to not be a complete noob (Magic the Gathering, World of Warcraft, Halo 2, Counterstrike, various console games to name a few).
I play video games (WoW extensively) to keep in touch with RL friends and to spend time with my significant other. It's not the optimal way to spend time with each other in some respects, but it's a way to keep communication for us. It's situational. What works for my personal relationship when it comes to gaming together may not work with some other couples out there. For me, it works because I work late at night and often times too tired to go out with the BF to "spend time" together. But, if it's gaming, I can come home, get on the computer, and chat for about 3 hours and do a decent amount of instancing / question on WoW while having a good conversation with him.
If it was RL, chances are with in that same time frame of 3 hours, we'll have dinner (1.5 hours), talk, and that would be it...and with a big chance that I'd get tired and fall asleep during that three hour date.

Dating with someone attractive over someone who you're more likely to care much about because you're more compatible with means that you're basically only looking skin deep. I find my boyfriend extremely attractive (I'm biased, sorry), and he's a tad bit "too much" of a gamer for me sometimes, but it's the other intellectual/emotional connections that we have that keeps the relationship in tact. At least that's what I'd like to believe about us.

I think really the question comes down to gamer girl vs non-gamer girl. Unfortunately I've found that a lot of the non-gamers didn't even like to accept gaming as a hobby that I do on my free time apart from them. It was a flaw in their eyes. I don't want to have to feel flawed by my significant other. I'd go for the gamer girl almost everytime because of that.

hmmm...I'd like a partner with the same hobby as mine...aside from the fact that it would cut expenses..I'd have someone to talk to without alienating somebody...In games I usually take notice of the thing as a whole...

so..basically me and a friend (and I mean only one) talks about how the composer sounsd a bit different or how this artist changed the style a bit or how the hell the designers got that into 3ds max or Maya. It would be a nice change to talk with somebody whod understand that....

but on the other hand just as long as we respect each others hobbies I'm fine.

Most important of all is that the other party accepts you for who you are and your hobbies though it helps quite alot when the bf/gf has similar hobbies. That would make deciding where to go much easier. Not that having differences is bad - in fact, its good. With diversity both persons can be exposed to more things and broaden their interest (since couples tend to be influenced by each other... right?)

I think that if a girl doesn't want your to talk about a certain something that really isn't big, in your case...video games, then the relationship is not worth you time. She has no right control what you talk about.

The girl I recently dated hated video games, then I decided to force her to play Ghost Recon 2 for the XBox360 and she immediately got hooked. Everyday she came over she wanted to play...and one day she got a score higher than me.

There's nothing wrong with getting a girl to play a game, in fact the reason why (if not the reason why everyone else plays them) is because it's a temporary escape from the real world.

Very well said.

I have managed to find very nice looking girl who accepts me and my habits/hobbies. Its awesome. She also decided that one day I have to teach to play some games. Very Cool.:biggrin:

Nofirefrog

Nah, I don't care about whether the girl is into videogames or not. Since I am not into them as much, my need for that has diminished. I have diversified my interests over the past while and as a result allows me to seek different types of girls.

There aren't many around in the first place, so you are kinda forced into looking at other interests.

As a general rule:

NOBODY can hate all video games. You got a hot girl but she doesn't like Battlefield 2 and World of Warcraft? Big deal. Place her in front of a TV with a game like DDR or Guitar Hero, or even something a little more conventional like Soul Calibur or Burnout (the newer ones, duh) and you'll bring something out in her that neither you nor she knew she had.

One of those four games are guaranteed to be enjoyable for her.

Prove me wrong. :P

I never said it would make them interested in video gaming. I implied they would enjoy one or more of those games. Slight difference there. I got plenty of friends who enjoy Guitar Hero and/or DDR, but would never play anything else, or obsess over the games in any fashion.

I will concede there are always exceptions to the rule - but why the hell would you wanna socialize with people that BORING anyway? Someone who doesn't even enjoy THOSE games is likely to not enjoy anything besides doing their hair and gossiping about other people and driving around in their daddy's brand new Beamer.

Dev, just admit when you've been proven wrong. You don't want to ignite this guy's emotionless passion.

The idea is that those games have entertainment value that's enjoyable to anyone with any interest in anything other than looking good, or other boring snooty stereotypes. I'll draw you a picture next time so you won't have to misinterpret what I said.
And yes. Gamers can be total morons. So can non-gamers. Glad you're with us.

#3 (whoever you are, you people and your airplanes...) Hah, that was actually kind of funny. I was going to change it, but now I think I'll keep Emotionless Passion, in honor of this amusing moment.

Despite the huge variety in games nowadays, I know girls that don't like anything... not even DDR. They'll play it to humour whoever else is playing. Karaoke revolution is another, but that's only if the enjoy singing. Everyone must have at least played Tetris at some point or another, or solitaire through windows.

So yeah, if you look at that way, EVERYONE must have played some sort of "video game" at some point in their life and enjoyed it. Doesn't mean their a gamer, and definitely doesn't mean that they're interesting either. :p I don't think anyone goes around hating video games with a passion and avoiding it at all costs, but we're talking about girls and gaming. The ones that don't play, they really don't care to.

"If you don't enjoy any video games, you must be a boring ditz." What kind of snobbish elitist gamer crap is that? Enjoyment of video games and social/intellectual capacity don't even follow each other. Pure non-sequitor. I'll spin it around for you. I know plenty of people who really, really enjoy most any videogame. And they are boring, because that's all they ever do or ever talk about. EVER.

And 'Prove me wrong' is not an argument. If I claim it is a fact that intelligent life exists in the 2nd star on Orion's Belt and they send me their alien pornography over undetectable subspace communication channels, shouting "PROVE ME WRONG" doesn't make me any less full of shit.

soapy- True. But I still maintain that you'd be hard-pressed to find a girl who doesn't at least ENJOY playing some kind of game, even if they don't like it enough to request it.

And so that we stay on topic at least a little more (that being girls who play and girls who don't), it's also true that girls who refuse to play, probably never will. But those girls, as I was stating earlier, are invariably boring.

ElectricSheep- As I said, the entertainment value in some of those games is completely undeniable. My point is that those who refuse to give it a shot are, in my experience, invariably boring/snobbish/stuck-up. It's like they think video games will cause cancer. And yeah. There are some gamers who are boring cause that's all they ever do or talk about. No argument there.

And, if you recall, "prove me wrong" wasn't used as an argument. The series of questions, statements, and replies, went as follows, in case you can't reference page 4 for yourself:
RAZGRIZ-2: "Yeah you got women all figured out don't ya? bitch please"
Me: "Prove me wrong. :P"

If that's not enough for you, let me quite simply point out that saying "Prove me wrong" is a rather concise way of saying "Okay, you and I seem to have conflicting opinions. My experiences have given me my opinion - did YOU have experiences that prove your point, or are you just assuming because you are an ass? If the former, please press reply. If the latter, please hang up now, do not pass 'Go,' do not collect $200."

I love how I have to spell everything out for some of you. Reminds me why I loved GFF so much! Can't believe I ever left.

You do infact sound like an elitist snob. But on the other end of the spectrum, their are probably girls who laugh at guys like you. "Boring" is subjective here, and you have not made that clearly. You must understand that you were the person who made the comment that instigated all this commotion with your "general rule." Because you've made such a lofty claim, you should have been prepared to defend it well.

On the other hand, many GFF members thrive on aggressive debate which I do not neccessarily support, especially in the quiet place. But seriously, the general rule you set foward is waiting for trouble.

Anyone who puts rules out there suggesting that it's not even questionable or debatable is setting themselves up to be shot down :p

Like 3/4 of my friends don't play video games, are they all boring? Maybe, but it's not because they don't play games... I don't think those two really go hand in hand. I know a ton of gamers, and they aren't exactly the creme of the crop either when it comes to "fun" and "interesting."

A certain somebody was in chat the other night. He was whining about how the Wii targets girls and grandparents:) I think I made a similar retort about snobbish elitist gamer crap followed by "like it would be a travesty if more girls played games." I then sat back and waited for Dev to come in and make her usual comment, "and you guys wonder why you don't have girlfriends."




P.S. The snooty girls often grow up by the time they get to university. Also, you discover that beneath their social veneer they are people too.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2...9466531jg6.jpg

I like how Ayos only knows people who are dull.

Dude, you have had zero success with the ladies, I don't think you should let your sour grapes define other people's interactions.

I mean, seriously. How can you?

Hot gaming girls are so rare. They prefer to go out with friends spend their time at phone or simply watch TV. I also think that girls play the worst games ever made: they don't like violence nor sports. The remaining games are Sims-like or some games for babies ( the 3+ ones). So finding a hot girl who likes VG is a real chalenge, think that you're not the only man who's searching that kind of girls!!!

Well, actually those Sim Games are pretty good games. I wouldn't call it one of the 'worst games ever made'. Yeah, granted, some of them may like games like the Adventures of Sailormoon but those Simulator games (no pun intended!) are pretty intellectual games if you ask me.

when it comes to gaming, since its such a big part of my life, along with anime, manga, etc, i'll try to look for a guy into those kinds of things. sadly, a hot gamer guy is almost as rare as a hot gamer girl! you don't know my pain~!

it's always about compatibility though. i usually go for likes and dislikes that are similar to mine and THEN maybe looks. hey, i'm a teenager i'm allowed to be shallow!!

Completely agree. I can actually count my number of friends who play games on one hand. Then again though, I don't exactly play games for the same reason most people do. I play games when I have nothing else to do. Not that I dont enjoy games, just that there are many other things I enjoy more, and will do them over games any time. Games often take up time when I can't do other things, especially when I need to get my mind off these other things. So I guess, associating with people in RL who are really into games, or who spend alot of time gaming, really isn't my thing.

and yes; </3 games = boring
is a crap theory.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you... definitions!

The word "general," as defined by dictionary.com (second definition)
adjective
of, pertaining to, or true of such persons or things in the main, with possible exceptions; common to most; prevalent; usual: the general mood of the people
The word "rule," as defined by dictionary.com (third definition)
noun
the customary or normal circumstance, occurrence, manner, practice, quality, etc.: the rule rather than the exception.

Put them together. Sure, I can excuse you if you decided to take it on FIRST definition terms, since that's what I do myself at times, but honestly, it would have been a little better for the vibe in here had you been a little more willing to explore the possibility that I wasn't limiting myself to the first definition of these wonderful words.
And finally, you'll notice that I said in more recent posts that they have been, in my experience, invariably boring.
I'm fully prepared to defend every single word of what I've said, but that would be like beating a dead horse with the walking stick of the dead man who used to ride the dead horse, which stick came from a very dead tree. But I'll do it if you really want to. I do enjoy dead-horse-beatings. And semantics. Oh la how I enjoy them.

avanent- I totally agree. I know plenty of people who aren't boring who don't LOVE video games.

If that confuses any of you or makes you think I contradicted myself... I have three words for you: learn to READ.

Yep. In my expierances, I've generally found the opposite to be true. However, the fact that you said 'in your expierance' and have stated that it is 'your opinion', makes you fully able to say it. Even if I think its crap :)

Let me preface this real quick: I am NOT being a sarcstic ass here, I'm being totally serious when I say this...

I would like to meet some of these non-boring girls who have never somewhat enjoyed a video game. I met one I thought was non-boring once, but she ended up being ... well, I guess maybe not BORING, but I didn't enjoy being around her. She was too high-strung all the time. Didn't know how to relax. So honestly, if you can introduce me to one, I'd be very appreciative. Broaden my world and whatnot.

Maybe you just don't get along with people who don't have some sort of secret love for video games. That's fine. You don't like high-strung girls who don't know how to relax. Generally, girls who have a lot of energy, don't want to sit on their ass to play games. That just goes with the territory.

It's not really about the games, maybe you just don't like that type of persona.

If liking video games makes you somewhat more interested in a person, then that's fine. But that doesn't mean that a girl who doesn't like video games will be boring to everyone other person that meets them. Sometimes I like being around people who are totally energetic, positive and always willing to do something. I don't necessarily always want to be indoors and staring at a big tv screen.

Ayos, the reason you get a lot of flack here is because you word your opinions as though they were true. You don't leave the topic very open, which prompt hasty responses from everyone else.

I'd like to get back to the point wherein you define video games as an intellectual persuit. What is intellectual about DDR? What great philosophies are explored in Guilty Gear? How are your reasoning facilities taxed in NBA Jam?

Ayos, I have an intellectual game for you. Explain how one person's experiences constitute a statistically sound and unbiased piece of evidence for generalizations made on a population.

And a personal question, if I may. How do you feel about Dean Koontz novels?

Replying to inital post of this thread:

There currently is a growing amount of hot girls who are also gaming girls. Not the, "Oh this girl plays just to have fun with everyone." I mean serious gamers. "Minus 50DKP from him, he totally screwed up the run!"

I don't know what the numbers or percentages are at, but I'm pretty sure, by gut feeling alone, that they're becoming more and more of a sight to see/notice.

Just watch, as more MMORPGs develope, with prettier graphics, sexy female character designs, and boyfriends who play, there'll be more hot gamer girls to interact with.

I wish I could find the article with the picture, but there are female gamers that are hardcore FPS players.

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,1885,00.html

This one doesn't have a picture, but the other article I read, the girls were not bad looking.

Granted, these all PMS clans don't seem like the type of girls I'd want to hang out with. They probably take gaming way too seriously and want to exercise their girl power all the time. That crap bugs me. I like playing anonymously as a guy and then have people be surprised when they find out I'm a girl.

So hot female gamers do exist, but then again, are they the type of girl you'd want to be with? The ones that can beat you at every game and then laugh at you and tell all your friends? (I'm sure there are nice hot gamer girls out there that aren't full of PMS, but this is just an example.)

that's why no one likes sausagefests, Devo. Not even the dudes!

I just take exception to the idea that one hobby, among all, should be a defining characteristic to look for in a mate. Same deal with that schmuck who felt he resonated with music so strongly that he could never find anyone tolerable. I mean, among all the things you look for in a mate, why should hobbies come even close to the top? Does personality, looks or any of that mean nothing?

Well, in Ayos' case, yes. He will take any chick who so much as looks at him, and then berate her for being 'boring' when he realizes she was just asking directions. :(

soapy- I enjoy the company of girls who don't have a secret love for video games all the time... I just haven't found any who have never even enjoyed playing one of the four aforementioned games, who weren't extremely boring, and I never enjoy their company.
Girls with energy are fun. High-strung girls are no fun. There is a difference.
I myself sit in front of a screen for maybe a max of 2 hours a day, none of which is spent on video games, so I'd prefer being with someone who doesn't play video games for hours anyway.
And my opinions are true - in my experience. As previously stated. Maybe not in yours. I do appreciate your concern, by the way... but I just don't mind getting flak so much. In general (ooh there's that word again) it's been from people who are asshats anyway, so what more could I expect? :)

GRUN-3- One person's experiences do NOT constitute a statistically sound and unbiased piece of evidence for generalizations made on a population. They do however constitute a perfectly sound and BIASED piece of evidence for generalizations made on all members of a certain part of the population that person has ever had a chance to encounter. We all form our own biases (a.k.a. prejudices) based on our experiences. And I don't think I ever even tried to argue about or define video games as an intellectual pursuit (as a general rule, they are not. In most ways.) Finally, I've never read any Dean Koontz novels so I have no opinion on them.

I'm very grateful for the fact that the most recent statement made by you about me is NOT true... I shudder to think of the girls I would have ended up with, if I took every chick that looked at me. No no, I prefer to stick with the hot interesting intelligent ones. Technically "hot" and "interesting" are, I suppose, in the eye of the beholder... but when the majority agrees, what can you do?

Majority says: Dude that girl you're with is hot.
Conclusion: The girl is hot.
Majority says: Ayos is a cock.
Conclusion: Ayos is a cock.

See? :)

Go outside, virgin.

Thanks for the compliment. And no, outside is cold right now. Screw being outside. I'd much rather stay inside where I can say "NO SEX" to girls who want to bump uglies with me.

Maybe I'll have my documentary girls let me take pictures with them holding up signs that say "He's the best I've ever had, and he's still a virgin! OMGWTFBBQ? Magic fingers what?"

I don't think I've ever heard of a situation more befitting the term "bump uglies".

Not even the retards who live on your street? Damn, I really must be ugly. Good thing your opinion of my looks matters as much to me as my opinion does to you.

Any more personal insults I think should be directed toward my PM inbox, or you can create a thread in the Sewers explicitly to bash me. Maybe it's already there, I haven't checked - if it hasn't been made yet, I'll be very disappointed. You need to keep on top of these things.

Now to get back on topic.

There are hot gamer girls. There are hot non-gamer girls. There are non-hot gamer girls. There are non-hot non-gamer girls. If I HAD to choose between non-hot gamer, or hot non-gamer, I'd probably pick hot non-gamer, as long as she isn't boring. My theory is simple... if the girl isn't boring, you have more chance of getting her to at least enjoy ONE game, than you do of making a non-hot girl HOT.

agrred.

while i havn't much attempted the latter part, I do have some hot friends who've always disliked games find some interest and find a few mildly amusing on rare occasions.

As shallow as that seems, I have to agree whole heartedly.

huh? No I was just saying that I'd agree if the whole hot-non gamer/non-hot gamer thing was true and applied to me, fortunately, it doesn't. I managed to get the best of both worlds

Why do we talk as if they are mutually exclusive? Can't a Gamer Girl be hot too?

Anyways, my personal opinion would be yes, since I could care less if the girl wasn't hot. I'm not really into hot girls per se, since they unfortunately have the "slut" image attached as well. I'm not saying all hot girls are like that, but that's what my experience has led me to believe. I'm personally more fond of cute girls, instead of hot. Gamer Girl has nothing to do with looks. If a girl games, it doesn't matter if she's hot or cute or whatever, they're completely independent of each other.

hot, cute, beautiful; I was thinking it was meaning more as in 'atrractive' not specifically 'hot'.

Sound and biased are two words that contradict. Otherwise, you are absolutely correct. Your personal experiences are absolutely on target for generalizing everyone that you personally have come in contact with. Big deal. I'm not going to meet any of the girls you have. Your posts are as empty as your soul.

There is boring and then there is vapid. So, what video game genre do you feel stretches the grey matter to the limit? please say rpgs

yes, I reckon her WoW avatar was pretty hot and interesting.

Double Post:
Personally, I like how Ayos keeps dragging out the strawman of 'well EVERYONE enjoys at least ONE video game, even if they haven't played it yet!' The joint discovery that your girlfriend really likes Kingdom Hearts doesn't make her a gamer, dipshit, and most people don't appreciate being badgered into liking a hobby.

Sound (second iteration, third definition)
adjective
competent, sensible, or valid

Nothing about competent, sensible, or valid contradicts "biased" or "prejudiced" as there are plenty of valid prejudices.
And am I going to meet any of the girls YOU have? No probably not. Wait, so does that make your posts empty too? You're kinda confusing me here.
RPGs have great stories, but I don't know that I can say they stretch your grey matter to the limit, at least, not in too many ways. Certain adventure puzzle games (Myst comes to mind) may make you think, but usually it's lateral thinking, which is only good for certain things anyway. I'm really not sure where you're trying to head with this, are you trying to convince me that playing video games make a person smarter?
Dear GOD if you mention WoW ever again I will hunt you down and make sure you never type another word your entire life. That game is a mindless plague on humanity.
Did I ever say it made them a gamer? You people need to stop ATTEMPTING to read between the lines, and just read what I write. Or not, and I'll keep making fun of you.

You're racist, aren't you?

Seen it before, little buddy.

Ah, I see. Regardless, They're still mutually independent so they can be both. But if it were only one or the other, I would not mind Gaming less to spend time with a girl.

Ayos has been banned from the thread for being a disruptive influence and offering nothing in the way of informed or intelligent debate in his posts.

You can carry on calling him a loser in the inevitable journal entry this move leads to.

Someone already pointed out that beauty is shallow and leaves us anyway, not to mention "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" as for gamer girls that's all well and good but couples should have differences between them. So for that reason I say neither of the above as a person's character comes before all else, and if you're a decent person who doesn't play religiously and so are they, playing videogames isn't be a problem :)

It would be fun to have a girlfriend who played games, but honestly? If I get a girlfriend, I'm mostly interested in her sexually. I have friends to play games with, some of whom are girls. If I get a "girlfriend" (my relationships hardly match the typical perception of girlfriend), I want her to be attractive and interesting, and that's about all I ask for.
I don't ask for compatibility or anything. I just don't view sexual relationships that way.

Now, if it was a really serious relationship, one that might lead to marriage and the raising of children, I'd like her to be interested in games (or at least tolerant of my liking them). I dunno that I'd like a "gamer girl". I don't like most gamers I meet, boy or girl.