Double Standards
 

A discussion on my morning radio show got me thinking about this today. Adult women are allowed to make sexually suggestive comments about young (teenage) boys, but when grown men admit to finding a teenage girl sexually attractive, they're labeled as perverts.

I have to admit that this is something I'd never really given much thought to before. I work with a bunch of women ranging in age from 25 to 40, and we do it all the time, and no one raises an eyebrow, but - heaven forbid - if one of my male co-workers ever made a comment like, "If I was ten years younger I'd show her a thing or two," and directed it toward, say, our 19-year-old college intern, I guarantee you from that moment on he'd be considered the office creep.

On the flip side, my husband has told me many times that during his teenage years, the ultimate fantasy for him and his friends was to hook up with an older woman, but I can tell you from the female perspective that young women/teenage girls don't usually fantasize about older men (in general) unless they're celebrities or someone the girl knows personally.

What's up with this double standard? Also, discuss any other double standards that irritate you.

What the fuck, right? Lesbians are A-OK: everyone likes pussy. They're just having fun. ^____^ Fags, though? No way, gross.

Err, as I understand it, they mean if there were any guys in addition to the group of girls. Not a group of guys.

Hah, you are right, I misunderstood what they meant then. Either way, though, I know people who actually do think like that, and it's kind-of annoying.

I like it when I'm dating someone and I'm not allowed any contact with any other girls without having to deal with jealousy issues, but then the girl I'm dating leaves me for another girl. What is that about.

Or like how parrents are all like "dont swear, its bad" or "dont smoke, its bad for you" then they do it them selves. i dont do either of those things, but its still dumb.

life is full of these things.

I can answer that for you. Yes.

In all honesty, it has been more than two years since I dated an English major or psycho\art major.

Also, I like how guys can sleep around and no one really says anything negative about them, but if girls sleep around, they're labeled whores or sluts. Good job society.

no, its worse then that. guys get looked up to for that stuff. im a guy and stuff like this still pissed me off.

In a way I look at male/female sexuality as not quite the same. I mean, men have a penis, which gives. Women have a vagina, which receives. So it's almost like a woman has to let you while a guy has to ask. I think there's something subconsciously associated with this somehow, which might be why a guy couldn't say he wants to bang a younger woman while a woman could.


Also, my dad said when he was young, he had a crush on an older Jewish lady :-/ I think a lot of younger men do have a thing for older women. In fact it was the topic of an episode of That 70's Show. Kelso ended up touching Kitty on the ass in the supermarket.

The double standard that annoyed me for the longest time is the "asking-out" ritual. Under most circumstances, the male is expected to ask the female for a date. We're supposed to step it up and make the first move because women are vain creatures who need to feel desired.

This would be fine, if not for the fact that so many women play it coy and do their damnedest to appear wholly disinterested. It's aggravating to know that we men are expected to be mindreaders and that the reason you came back for an extra packet of sugar is because you want to be asked out. How the fuck are we supposed to know this? To us, it looks like your coffee wasn't sweet enough.

I absolutely hate learning that a girl was interested me, well after the fact that she's given up and moved on. I may not be the best at flirting, but I'm capable of picking up basic clues. Help us out, ladies. Don't sit there all shy, playing impossible-to-get, then bitch and whine when we don't notice you.

If a man likes a woman, he's expected to say something, right? Well if a woman likes a man, she should get off her fucking ego-trip and speak up. It'll cut through a lot of ridiculous gesturing and the two of them can actually be happy together. *GASP*

Mainly it's because adult women do not run around raping 14 years old boys?

Okay but if they tried to, it would be totally hot. I mean unless their not attractive. But if they were, it would be totally hot. In fact it would probably get legalized ASAP.

Crash, I understand your pain. Really, I do. But the thing is, there's yet another double standard at work here, which is the fact that women who do what you're asking them to do in your post are labeled "slutty," or at the minimum, "too forward." And I can tell you from what I've been told by boyfriends over the years - particularly when I was middle school/early high school age - boys' mothers AND FATHERS warned their sons about the dangers of girls who would pursue them. At least they did in my day.

This may be a generational (or maybe a southern) thing, but I was taught by my mother from a very young age that women are the pursued, NEVER the pursuer.

Alice you look like a hot older woman, want 2 have secks?

Sorry. I've determined through LOADS of trial and error that anyone under the age of 20 isn't worth my time. =P

Alice, that entire line of conditioning is nothing but archaic gender discrimination. It's objectifying women into little more than items to be collected.

If you want something, go for it. I wouldn't mind being chased after. (I'm taken, but I'd still be flattered.)

But I'm almost 21 :)

Exactly. The idea that a woman pursuing a man constitutes her being "too forward" or a whore is based around the idea that the woman is secondary to the man. The woman should be by the man's side, agreeing, not speaking for herself. Not doing as she pleases. Waiting for a man to come select her.

No. This is something that's akin to pretty much every culture on the planet. However, this is quite possibly one of the most asinine thinkings ever invented by women. I mean, with all the so-called strides that women have made in the past few decades to attain everything from job equality to sexual freedom, are you seriously going to tell me that a woman should always wait for the MEN to take initiative?

You know goddamn well we lack that shit nowadays. :p

How about in the workforce?
I don't know about everywhere else, but:
- I've only ever seen one male secretary
- I've never seen a female in construction

I know things are changing with male nurses and female...uh...well stuff like that. There are just some jobs that I haven't seen the opposite gender fill.

I've seen many of both. But it's not surprising you haven't. Those are two jobs that one specific gender will usually excel at. Women are known to be a lot more friendly and talkative. Therefore, they're perfect secretaries. Men aren't afraid to get dirty and are usually a lot stronger. They're basically built for physical labour.

Of course, that's a generalisation, but a fairly true one. Women have been raised to do and believe certain things, just like men have. Those specific jobs suit one specific gender.

I really hate the double standard of women not being able to do math/science. Though most women are liberal arts/humanities majors (or in the case of most beauty pageants, "communications" majors), it still doesn't belittle the fact that there are some very capable women who can become great engineers, etc.

As for women playing the passive role in relationships, to me I can see it work the other way. A lot of my experiences have been men being too shy or afraid. Men should display their confidence more forwardly than women. Besides, that's a double standard society dictates, no? As for women playing "hard to get", there are a variety of reasons that women do that, ranging from they don't want to seem too easy to not interested.

I pretty much hate how straight couples are allowed so much license with a variety of pda's but two guys together, and you're scorned for freaking holding hands. Stupid breeder oppressors.

But we've been doing it for centuries. How about a change?

Maybe you've been dealing with nerds who were picked on throughout middle school and high school.

Racial double standards annoy me. Like it's not racist for a black, asian or hispanic to say white boy, but if I say black boy or whatever, then I'm racist.

Man Crash, I know exactly how you feel. I've seen cases where the girl throws glances at me, and seems interested, but when I start talking to her, she acts as if I'm some sort of pervert or something and tries to avoid talking to me. But then she still does those glances. As a result of this happening numerous times, I'm very "skeptical" when I see girls do this to me (maybe I just look weird to them or something, and they just have to stare in my general direction. I thought maybe they were looking at another guy, but usually I sit in a corner, so that if anyone does look this way, the only thing they're going to see is me). They also never "make the first move" either, so that certainly doesn't help.

I once tried picking this girl up, who seemed to be complaining that men never do this or that (despite me trying to do this and that for her, like "talk about feelings"). After about two months or so of hanging out, I tried asking her out. She waits about two weeks before giving me an answer, which essentially amounted to "no".

The next semester, I see her and one of my other friends hanging out. Since I'm on good terms with both of them, the guy tells me he's dating that girl I tried to go out with earlier, and that they've been going out for about a week now. They both seem pretty happy at first.

Come about a month and a half later, I ask both of them if they're still going out (cause I didn't see them together anymore). Both of them say they broke it off, but the girl's "reasons" seemed more "interesting" to me. She said that he drinks a lot (something I never do), and a lot of times when she saw him, he was drunk or at least had a buzz. He also had some crude behavior and acted like a jerk sometimes (again, something I don't do often, at least intentionally).

What pissed me off mostly was that I spent a few months trying to be a friend to her (she told me she didn't have a boyfriend too), so that when we did go out, she could see for herself that I can be quite a gentleman, and someone she could be happy with. After all that wasted time, she still isn't interested in me, yet it only takes that other guy like maybe 2 weeks or so for her to go out with him right away, and only to find out that he was a jerk (at least when it comes to dating. I still hang out with him cause we have a lot of interests and when he's not drunk, he's quite cool to hang out with).

Ugh, I hate having to deal with the opposite sex sometimes. They claim that "no man treats them right", but then they also usually refuse to go out with guys who might treat them right, but don't look like Fabio or something. Instead, they seem to go after good looking jerks who will treat them like crap, but because they look good, more women will keep going to them.

On a similar rant, I've noticed that women with kids seem interested in me. I must look like a good father figure or something. What upsets me is that I've seen women who wouldn't give me a second thought while they're childless, but the moment they get knocked up (and the guy subsequently leaves her), suddenly they seem to want to go out with me (I've even encountered a situation where one of the girl's friends asked me for my phone number for her, about the only time I was asked out by the girl, even if indirectly).

My rant is, "Why aren't I good enough for you before you have a child?" Because I'm afraid that if I do go out with them, and suddenly the baby's father wants to get back together, then I'm in a kind of a rough spot. It has happened before too, on several occasions, so as a rule now, I don't date women who have kids, even if they're really good looking. But I hate it when they give me the wrong impression, so that makes it even harder for me to want to ask a girl out (and I'm kind of the shy type too).

:eyebrow: Sounds like the you're the cuckold kind of guy to women. There's been a few articles on how at certain times of the month (ovulating and not) that women will prefer different types of men. They mentioned that maybe it was so the women could net the proper "father" type of man for their kids, but they still preferred as masculine representation of gene quality as possible (ie: a better looking guy).

I agree that the games people play while dating are ridiculous. The things men and women have to do, say, etc.. reminds me of the elaborate mating rituals of other animals. All this could be avoided if people were straightforward about their desires.

I'm a woman and I can completely agree with this. Although I've never been so forward it's only because I've never had reason to be so. But I've seen one of my best friends sit there and do nothing because she wanted the guy to ask her out, and I see this as nothing more than her wanting him to make her feel wanted. I was so irritated; if she was that interested she should've gotten over herself and asked him out but she never did =/.

Why is it such a big thing for a woman to ask a man out? Geez, sometimes men can be just as shy or egotistical as women can be. Each situation is different isn't it?

True, that!

I'm an Electrical Technologist. Out of maybe a hundred students I met in my Electronics courses, there were three girls.

I do suck-ratery work for my dentist, who is a lady. She chose me instead of a list of ladies because I'm a big guy. She likes the reassurance that if one of her patients flips out over a bill or can't control themselves under pain, I can step in to intervine.

In stagecrew, you'll see some women who could out muscle some of the typical fellas. Still, their numbers are pretty few and far between.

I don't like the double standard associated with child custody issues. Almost always, a mother will be awarded the children when two parents divorce, even if both parents held jobs before the divorce.

Yeah, I gotta agree with this. I know of a couple cases where the dad was a pretty upstanding guy who held a well paying job, the mother was a drug addict who didn't even have a job. When they went to court to decide who would get custody, the mother was handed full-custody over the children, as long as she went into rehab. She didn't, she still kept the kids who were never allowed to speak to their father again. Stuff like that is pretty sickening.

I thought it was illegal to keep children out of a parent's life, regardless of gender, religion, or criminal history. I remember my lady friend Darlene filed for child support when the father of her child didn't want the child in his life. He didn't want to pay out, so he filed for joint cusdity.

Not sure about that. It might depend on whether joint custody had all ready been turned down or not. But yeah, i think it was a case I studied back in highschool for law. It might also be different between Canada and America.

Ugh, I hate that too. But I hate it because it actually happened to me as a child. My mother was a dead beat and couldn't support any of her children. She couldn't even take care of herself and depended on my father. My father on the other hand had a solid job. He was an active participant in taking care of his children.

But who do they give the children to? Why, thier mommy ofcourse. Then she ends up fucking up and the law has to step in to pluck us out. Then after she disapears off the face of the earth they finally go "Okay lets give em to the dad!".

I assume they do this because of the close bond small children and thier mothers usually have. It just doesn't make sense when the mother couldn't possibly support them properly.

Anyways, enough of this emo bullshit, here's a double standard I haven't really seen mentioned. I'm kind of surprised too since there are so many gamers here. But the whole Male/Female gamer thing. A male gamer is sad or pathetic, maybe even a nerd. But the moment a female picks up a game controller trumpets go off and everyone screams in amazement. Like it's so rare that a female would play games.

Not only that, you have the whole 'skill' thing. A male gamer is always better at gaming than a female gamer. Or a female gamer can only play easy or cute games. Though It's not really as bad as it was years ago. This has been dieing off alot over the years.

Oh, I don't know, I still see a lot of silly Mary Kate & Ashley games and such, which nobody plays, but they still get produced.

While the male stereotype of what a gamer is has all but died off with the PlayStation generation making gaming a much more mainstream thing, the female stereotypes do still persist. I've encountered everything from hardcore FPS female fans to girls who act like they enjoy games to try and land the guy they're attracted to. Sorry, but methodical button mashing (can't be TOO obvious) on your crush's fighting game of choice doesn't make you a gamer. An ex of mine was obsessed with RPGs and proclaimed herself a gamer, yet when I got her Ico for Christmas, it went untouched after she ran around in it for 5 minutes and couldn't figure out what to do.

I'm not going to generalize, but if a girl plays solely RPGs for the reason that they lack any sort of competent hand-eye coordination, they shouldn't be referring to themself as a gamer. If you have no understanding of the details of the game past "things with higher numbers work better" and have no desire to learn said details, you aren't a "girl gamer". That's like claiming you're a race car driver because you drive a car.

Gamer girls. It had to come up sometime.

Okay. I never had any clue why girls were not in to gaming, until I met my friend Tina. I told her that I have been in to video games since the Atari 2600, and she said "Oh yeah. My father bought me one when I was young, but I had trouble expaining to him that I don't play video games because I am a girl." I wanted to faint right then and there. Did society just convince all girls that video games are only for fellas? Even worse, the video game industry backs up that statement by releasing "girl driven" games and applications like Cosmogirl, or like what Arrowhead pointed out, the latest Mary Kate & Ashley installment. If a girl wanted to get in to gaming, and was a complete stranger to the subject, what would she choose? Girls would most likely pick something that they can relate to the easiest, which also turns out to be the worst games on the market. The only solution I can come up with, is treat all ladies who are beginners to video games, the same way I would treat any newbie to a video game. Take a game with a simple concept that is easy to play, yet is not so easy it is bland and boring. Tetris, and the Final Fantasy series are the easiest examples I can come up with off the top of my head. I would recommend them to anybody, regardless of their previous gaming experiences. At the video gamers club in my college, we would play Guitaroo Man on a big projecter, and ladies would be drawn to the flashy graphics and eclectic music. When they saw all the fellas playing the game, some became determined to learn how to play the game, regardless of their novice level. One of the ladies became one of the best competetors, and many ladies had a great time getting in to video games through the game. Their isn't a clear, solid way to get everybody in to video games, but breaking stereotypes and not scaring away new gamers is vital.

50 cent: Yo Yo Yo nigga ahm 50 cent
other black guy: yo yo yo nigga

(50 cent and other black guy watch "funny" black sitcom)

50 cent: yo nigga
other black guy #2: yo yo yo what nigga?
50 cent: ahm gonna bust a cap in some white boy's ass
other black guy #2: everything gwan be airy
50 cent: do you want dem rice an' peas?
other black guy: WELCOME TO JAMROCK
50 cent: yo yo shuttup nigga
other guy: yo yo yo sorry nigga
White person: Hey, uh...how is everything down in the hood, nig...ger?
50 cent and other black guy 1 and 2: YO YO YOU'S A RACIST FUCK! GONNA BUST A CAP IN YOUR RACIST BIZZATCH ASS!
(all the black guys shoot white guy to death)
Asians/Jews/Arabs/Hispanics/Inuits/Indians/Europeans/etc: Wow we don't get our own fucking month and our own entertainment channel
Napoleon: ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS

For some reason, in GA it works like this:

Cat attacks Dog, dog dies: Cat owner gets life in prison (not really)
Dog attacks Cat, cat dies: Cat had no business in Dog's yard.

or

Cat attacks human: That's just how animals are
Dog attacks human: it's a menace to society.


Also, why is it that Black people get their own fucking month???

If you'll remember, there were white slaves in England.
And what about the jews? They've gone through a LOT more than any Afro-American has!

Then of course, there's the infamous: Niggah problem.

Black people can say it, whites cant. What's with that?

And the NAACP??? Association for COLORED people? Why can't Whites have an Association for NON-COLORED people?

Ummm... maybe because the only 'discrimination' you'll face as a white person is distain when you try to rap? Or how about the fact that there is no backwoods belief that white people are inferior? (At least not a common one.) Even though our countries are legally fair (for the most part) and generaly friendly on its surface, black people are still associated with poverty and violence, mistreated (sometimes unconciously) and therefore may have a reason to want an association to back them up on this particular problem.

And this is from a female cptr engineering student: most guys only take you to be less mathematic/scientific if you give them a reason to.

Well I'm sure the Jews were given the option of having either their own month or their own country.

I don't understand why white people get so bent out of shape about the fact that black people are sensitive about non-black people using the word "nigger". Is it because they think it is a term of endearment, or maybe because imitating black culture just the new fad? I nearly beat the shit out of a black person for calling me "honky", and I live in a neighborhood where myself and my roommates are the only white people in the neighborhood. I know I'm not black, I respect the black culture, I have many black friends, and I never felt the need to call anybody a "nigger". So if Asians start calling each other "chinks", now white people have to call them "chinks" too?

Sublime.

Because "Nigger" is a derogatory word from "negro".

"Nigga" is, from what I've been told by black friends of mine, a mockery of the derogatory word. Meant to mock the oppressive offensiveness of it. So a white person saying "nigga" isn't the exact oppressive version of the word, but it's usually taken just the same.

What made our ancestors think it was alright to have ownership over another person is beyond me.

Oh yeah, the same thing that had us leaving another country claiming religious oppression only to invade another country and force religion on the natives there.

Ignorance.

none of the below is politically correct, so go stuff yourself

Mistreated my ass.

Cynthia McKinney was not mistreated.

They may HAVE BEEN mistreated, but now they just trample over their liberators.

Associated with poverty and violence?? Have you EVER walked down Peachtree Street? (oh wait, perhaps you haven't)

And besides, what about this crap about the only people in the south are rednecks? What of that? Perhaps the reason that yanks are considered down here to be snobbish is because they act snobbishly to us!

Back to Cynthia, Who does she think she is? She doesn't wear the pin because she thinks she's too good for it, gets removed, and punches someone. I would say that if anyone was mistreated, it was that po-po.

I myself have many black friends and none of them show disdain at my rapping. In fact, I have been complimented on it many times. I am offended that you make such a generalization. They don't talk about me behind my back, they laugh at my lack of rhythym openly to my face.

Double Post:
Hmm...
My friends didn't say that, but they did say that between races, it was sensed as wrong since there isn't the same sense of equality as there is within races.

Why ownership?

Well, once it was custom that after conquering a country, the citizens were yours, do what you want.

So... When the tribe leaders of Africa realized that the Euros felt the same way, they said, why don't we get rid of our enemies permanently!? so they sold people into slavery.

And of course, they were shipped to BOSTON (make note of that) but they couldn't survive the severe cold.
Then they were shipped to the south.

Eventually they got used to it and then the North said, HEY!!! You can't do that to another human! even though it was a practice they started in the first place.

And after that, it just gets uglier.

Double Post:
There are some black people in the GOP, unbelievably.

Hmn, maybe I'm wrong, but isn't black-history month mainly about black-americans? Gee, we don't need to celebrate everyone's braveness, do we? And if you think about it. we're sold short too. Every think about why black history month is on the shortest month of the year?

And didn't they do that a while ago to help encourage people to like black people? Show them they're capable of things too? If you're so mad about the idea of them having their own month, then write to the government about it. Ask them to make a "White history month," or an "Asian-history month." Also, every other month is pretty much taken.

You get it. Still, they don't take up the whole month. And what's so bad about it? It's one month. Again, the shortest.
-Icy


Okay, enough double posts. I'll say this and leave because I am angry as shit at the moment.

You guys kind of sound pathetic if you ask me. Why are you guys (the white people in here, or at least the people supporting the white/black nigger thing) SO hellbent on being able to say a racial slang? Why do you feel such an incredible need to call a black person a "nigger" that you have to argue about it like this? Does it make you feel big? Maybe we don't want you calling us that if it's so important that you can.

LISTEN TO YORSELVES. You're basically saying "I can't call a black person a nigger without being labled as "racist."" Do you even comprehend the incredible amount of stupid behind your arguments? And you wonder why there is no such thing as "true racial equality." Who the fuck are you trying to preach to? Or is that the equality you wish for? A white person being able to call a black person a nigger. If so, please shoot yourself now! Imagine how society will be in 50 years! THESE are the opinions influencing everyone!

Someone really needs to answer that question for me. Is "nigger" so powerful and life-changing that you need to call someone it? Just call them by their name! Someone tell me why "nigga" is so popular around black people too. We all just need to erase that word from our vocabulary altogether. It's an extreme embarrassment that black people freely call themselves this, but it's even MORE of an embasrrassment to see some white people getting MAD because they CAN'T!

I'm sorry if anyone is offended, but am I the only one noticing the complete and total stupidity of this argument? This is so confusing to me. I just can't believe it. People are mad because they can't call someone a nigger. What the hell is wrong with you people?!

And gee, it just might have to do with it being the "word of choice" in slavery days. WHITE people called BLACK people that word. It's not THAT hard to comprehend. Maybe today's society is making you naive and stupid, but that's the truth, no matter how you choose to justify it. Maybe I'm weird, but I get offended when someone calls me that. Black or not, I'd feel like shooting you in the face if you called me that.

"nig·ger ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ngr)
n. Offensive Slang

Used as a disparaging term for a Black person: “You can only be destroyed by believing that you really are what the white world calls a nigger” (James Baldwin).
Used as a disparaging term for a member of any dark-skinned people.
Used as a disparaging term for a member of any socially, economically, or politically deprived group of people: “Gun owners are the new niggers... of society” (John Aquilino). "

Quote me if I'm wrong, but you are quite the idiot to have to debate over this. The debate should over why this word is still in our vocabulary. It is an offensive word no matter what race uses it, no matter your "justification" of using it, or your pronounciation of it. I just can't believe people are actually aguing over why they can't say it! This just amazes to me to no end. I need an asprin.

And one more thing for the road:

rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

"I can't call him a black boy" doesm't sound a little racist to you? I'm sorry to hurt your derranged feelings, but it does show racism. Black people calling white people "white boy" or "white girl" is a racist statement. You guys have to understand that you don't have to be racist to say or think something racist. You can be an idiot, though. You guys are telling me that you're mad because you can't call someone "black?" I'm mad because it seems that none of you (who are arguing this point) can't live about the hell-deep influence. Instead of calling someone "black boy," or "white girl," why don't you try their name? I'm sorry, but I am not going to sugar-coat this message to make someone feel happy. It [I[is[/I] a racial statement. I just can't believe that some of you are actually foolish enough to think it isn't.

I understand the whole meaning here "a black person can say something, but a white person can't." Change your argument before you change the world. Maybe ask, "why do we want to say this in the first place?" "Why is it sociably acceptable for anyone to say this?" Sometimes you have to make someone feel bad for their own good. Get "real" with them. Instead of changing what is okay, try to change why it is okay. Maybe your effort will seem as though it is in vain, but that isn't the point. You'll get the message across to somebody Trust me, if you say the right thing, you will touch somebody. Things do get done. Okay. I'm out.
-Icy

Yes, but America isn't England. And also, America didn't ship jews to camps. If you'll take notice, black history month is an AMERICAN HOLIDAY FUCKTARD.

Whites do have an association for non-colored people. It's called THE RUNNING OF THE WORLD association.


What, is Peachtree Street one of the TENS of rich black communities in the US? How about you look at some statistics instead of relying on your own personal worldview, and be a little less ignorant for all of our sakes.


They may have been mistreated? MAY HAVE BEEN? Maybe you're right. Maybe getting my leg chopped off for trying to escape a slave camp isn't so bad after all.

I really wish you would've been born into a ghetto, abandoned by your father, lived with gang violence all during your life, and then try to make a living selling drugs since that's the only visible opportunity to be successful in your life.

And then, I want you to say that you haven't been mistreated by society, because your chances of success were EQUAL to a white suburban male growing up.

If by "snobbish" you mean "call you a fucking retard for being such a bigot," then yes, I'm acting snobbishly towards you.

Oh it just gets uglier after that? You mean, at the point in which the South said fuck you, we're going to keep our slave labor because plantation owners like being rich? Oh yea, that ugly part. The part where they went to war in order to have the right to own people.

And you know, I don't blame anyone who lives in the south now for what's happened in the past. My mom and brothers and stepdad all live there, and it's a great place. It's just fucking bigots like you that bring out the anger so well.

Hu Jintao and Abdul Kalam among many others would be insulted by that statement.

I call fallacy of appeal to emotion.

A little bit more than snobbish, I think.

You mean the part where the North said the South could no longer use the slaves that THEY SOLD TO THEM? And the part where the South went to war to protect their economy?

Oh, so he's bigoted and you're not? Seriously. Look at what he said, and look at what you said. Now tell me that he's bigoted and you're not.

The truest statement I've read all week.

I have a huge problem with many of the double standards in life.

Hispanic and black people can have their own award shows, honoring only people of that race, but a white award show would be condemned for being racist. I mean, I guess I understand it. A minority rising up and accomplishing the same as a few from majority may be impressive, and some, I suppose, feel that such talented people deserve even more recognition than those from the majority. I'm personally under the belief that if they truly have accomplished great things in whatever field, they will be recognized for it by those within the field. Not just anybody gets an Oscar or Espy or Eisner nomination.

I have problems with items being sold in the U.S. that have been translated into other languages from English. If I went to another country (as far as I know), I'd be expected to know at least a little bit of their language, or at least have access to some kind of translator, whether it be a person or a dictionary. Maybe someone from another country can provide insight into this matter that I lack.

There's the double standard involved with raising children. In teenage years, some parents are overly protective of daughters in terms of relationships, but not of sons. My dad tried to explain this one to me recently, saying that parents don't have to worry about sons getting pregnant. If a child is conceived, the responsibility for raising the child mainly falls on the unwed mother and her family.

Those are just a few I feel like mentioning right now. I may return later with more.

Interesting. My friend at work has a daughter on the way and he said he was going to teach her what he knows of martial arts so she can defend herself from thieves/rapists.

The strange part about that is I doubt he would say the same thing if he was going to have a son, even though males are more likely to be victims of violent crimes (and nearly every crime) aside from rape.

Historically speaking, yes, conquered peoples were yours to do with as you pleased. However, just about all of them, except American slavery, let you be a freed person after x number of years of being a "slave". Even in the Roman Empire one could strive to be a freeman after being a slave for a while (even if it was a long time).

With American slavery however, blacks for the most part were slaves all their lives, and any children they had would be slaves as well. It was hereditary. They also prevented blacks from having formal marriages, so that it would be easier for the slave owners to tear families apart if they needed to (for example, to sell the children to another person). Slaves were treated like "property", no different from a horse or plow.

Yes, sadly African tribes did capture their enemies and sold them off to Europeans, who would then ship them to the New World (not just the US), to work on plantations and grow stuff to be sent to Europe to sell.

There were many issues concerning the lead up to the American Civil War. It was originally fought to preserve the Union (cause the Confederate States didn't want the North messing with their rights, hence why they seceded). But as the war began to drag on, Abraham Lincoln put a new twist on it, "To free the slaves". Even his Emancipation Proclaimation only freed slaves in the southern states, any slaves in the northern states weren't affected (probably cause if all slaves = free, those union states might've went Confederate as well).

And yeah, it gets worse after the war and during Reconstruction. Apparently, Northerners are opposed to slavery, but a lot of them were just as racist as the South was. Sure, they didn't want slavery, but they sure as heck didn't want blacks living in the North either. It would take the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960's for blacks (and other non-whites for that matter) to finally start getting some equality put into the law and have it enforced.

------

On a slightly OT, but related issue, I think the problem with stuff like this is that a lot of US history books in high school and below tend to omit a lot of stuff that happened, and just show everything as a one sided affair, with everything working out A-OK (and boy was I mad when I found out all this stuff in my college history courses, which I don't ever recall hearing in my high school history classes). As a result, many US citizens are pretty ignorant of what's "really" happened in the past (or they don't get a clear picture), and then wonder why stuff like 9/11 and Saddam Hussein happened (we actually supported Bin Laden during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, and we supported Saddam cause he was anti-communist and fighting Iran, who we didn't like after the Shah got overthrown. Of course, once communism lost, Saddam was no longer needed, so all the bad stuff he did was bad for the world).

Another interesting fact that's left out of US high school history books is that the US (well specifically Woodrow Wilson) sent troops into many countries, including Russia, to help fight against the Reds (communists). When it was apparent the Whites (non-communist Russians) were going to lose, he pulled them out, and pretty much got rid of any mention of it in the US. However, Soviet history textbooks all point out that the US had troops here at one time in the 1920's.

Ho Chi Minh also wanted Wilson to go to Vietnam and help them establish a self-determined state, just like he said during his 14 points address. But because Vietnam was under control of the French, and Wilson was pretty racist (he got rid of a lot of blacks who were working in the government), he basically ignored Ho Chi Minh, who then promptly went to communists (and this would help set the backdrop for the Vietnam War later on). But once again, many history books omit this information, cause it's not "nice to hear".

Sorry for going slightly OT, but I think that history shouldn't really be whitewashed, because a lot of interesting things happened in the past, and while "hero-ification" of historic figures is nice, we should also show the struggles they faced so that they'll seem more human, not like something you read in badly written fiction. The Woodrow Wilson you'll probably read about is the one that presented the 14 points, and tried to set up the League of Nations (which the US never joined ironically enough), and basically the guy that helped win WW1. But you'll never hear of how he shunned Ho Chi Minh (and other non-white delegates at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919), or all the invasions of other countries (I forget which ones, but I recall Panama, Russia, and invaded Mexico like 6 times), which would make him seem less of a hero, but at least would make him human and more understandable as a result (cause nobody's perfect).

However, I'm not just accusing the US of this, because just about every other country tends to hide their imperfect actions as well, or they tend to downplay it, such as the Japanese record of WW2, which I'm sure you remember infuriated the Chinese and Koreans. Or many of the things that the Soviet Union did as well, like the fact that more people died under Stalin than Hitler. Yet history tends to paint Hitler as the ultimate evil man, cause of his views on the world. But only by studying why things happened the way they did in the past (such as Germany's loss in WW1, and the brutal reparations the Allies forced on them), can you understand why Hitler would do what he did (such as blaming the Jews for the loss of WW1, and that they're the reason why things are so bad, so therefore they should be killed. He felt similarly about communists and the Russians as well).

I'm not saying that it'll give you a good feeling to learn all this stuff, just that it'll help you understand history better, and why things today are the way they are as a result of what happened in the past (the crisis in the Middle East also comes back to WW1 and WW2 as well, such as putting the Jews back in what's now known as Israel, pissing off the Muslims living around that area).

First of all, I'm not a bigot.
Second of all, I don't hate blacks of yanks. I simply state popular southern opinion.

No, fucktard. Peachtree street is one of the worst streets there are.
All of Atlanta is awful.


You misuse my words. I didn't capitalize May for a reason. Have been was capitalised to signify that that was in the PAST!!!!!!
Get over it!!!
Come on!!! The jews don't tell us about how awful the Holocaust was (which was 200 times worse than anything that the Blacks went through), why should they lord it over us? Me especially as my family was too poor to OWN slaves.


"I really wish you would've been born into a ghetto, abandoned by your father, lived with gang violence all during your life, and then try to make a living selling drugs since that's the only visible opportunity to be successful in your life."

welcome to my world, ass wipe.
It sucks to be us, doesn't it?

Did I ever say that I (emphasis on the singular) was mistreated?? No, I'm not, but the idea of choosing a black guy with a GED over a white guy who actually made it through HS simply because the black guy is black and they don't have enough black people in the college they applied to, for some reason that makes me mad.
That makes me real mad.

I don't blame the south for seceding.
Steel from Birmingham was always chaper than steel from Detroit for obvious reasons.
Does it seem fair that the government puts a TAX on SOUTHERN steel?
No, it doesn't.
Then they try to take away the industry that the NORTH supplied the SOUTH, that built it into a great industry.

Do you blame them for creating a new country???
IT WAS UNFAIR AND BIASED!!!

Now, I'm not saying that I'm for slavery of any kind, but in this instanse (slave trade aside) I'm with the south.

Double Post:
I'm going to try to persuade everyone to END the "White vs. Black : North vs. South" fight. None of us are racist (or at least I hope not) and no one wants to be called a bigot.

Stop.

It's uncivilized, blaming the other for both of your's problem (awkward sentence. :P ).

If I have in any way offended anyone, I'm sorry. I never intended it to get this bad.

Touche is not the word for me, but I do feel that it is time that I take my leave of this conversation, although It might not be permanent.

My 2 cents on everything so far:

Men and women: Considering how much times have changed, I'm still surprised that we as men still have to make the first move... which is lame, considering that girls don't like chilvary as much anymore.

The age difference? Makes me wonder if there's more female rapists out there than society would have us believe. And someone had better not give me that crap about "oh she's hot she can rape me anytime"

Gamers: Once more girls start playing, this one will disappear/diminish at least.

Black standards: White power? You mean that crap you always have and never use unless you're TRYING to be racist? Grow up. Also Black people say that White History month is every other month of the year (which is crap, but hey it's good for a laugh). Yes, black people are still mired in their maintained double standards quite simply because if we don't it could easily revert back to how it was in 1960--subtle and blatant racism all around.

However, I don't represent the opinions of all black people. I think affirmative action is no longer necessary except in maybe some extreme cases which the NAACP should more than handle. (Maybe I feel so strongly because Georgia Tech has no affirmative action and uses that as bragging rights?).

And that is all.

My Last Remark:
 

These are lyrics to a song from the Broadway Musical Avenue Q:

Everyone's A Little Bit Racist

Princeton:
Say, Kate, can I ask you a question?

Kate Monster:
Sure!

Princeton:
Well, you know Trekkie Monster upstairs?

Kate Monster:
Uh huh.

Princeton:
Well, he's Trekkie Monster, and you're Kate Monster.

Kate Monster:
Right.

Princeton:
You're both Monsters.

Kate Monster:
Yeah.

Princeton:
Are you two related?

Kate Monster:
What?! Princeton, I'm surprised at you! I find that racist!

Princeton:
Oh, well, I'm sorry! I was just asking!

Kate Monster:
Well, it's a touchy subject.
No, not all Monsters are related.
What are you trying say, huh?
That we all look the same to you?
Huh, huh, huh?

Princeton:
No, no, no, not at all. I'm sorry,
I guess that was a little racist.

Kate Monster:
I should say so. You should be much more
careful when you're talking about the
sensitive subject of race.

Princeton:
Well, look who's talking!

Kate Monster:
What do you mean?

Princeton:
What about that special Monster School you told me about?

Kate Monster:
What about it?

Princeton:
Could someone like me go there?

Kate Monster:
No, we don't want people like you-

Princeton:
You see?!

You're a little bit racist.

Kate Monster:
Well, you're a little bit too.

Princeton:
I guess we're both a little bit racist.

Kate Monster:
Admitting it is not an easy thing to do...

Princeton:
But I guess it's true.

Kate Monster:
Between me and you,
I think

Both:
Everyone's a little bit racist
Sometimes.
Doesn't mean we go
Around committing hate crimes.
Look around and you will find
No one's really color blind.
Maybe it's a fact
We all should face
Everyone makes judgments
Based on race.

Princeton:
Now not big judgments, like who to hire
or who to buy a newspaper from -

Kate Monster:
No!

Princeton:
No, just little judgments like thinking that Mexican
busboys should learn to speak goddamn English!

Kate Monster:
Right!

Both:
Everyone's a little bit racist
Today.
So, everyone's a little bit racist
Okay!
Ethinic jokes might be uncouth,
But you laugh because
They're based on truth.
Don't take them as
Personal attacks.
Everyone enjoys them -
So relax!

Princeton:
All right, stop me if you've heard this one.

Kate Monster:
Okay!

Princeton:
There's a plan going down and there's only
one paracute. And there's a rabbi, a priest...

Kate Monster:
And a black guy!

Gary Coleman:
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Kate?

Kate Monster:
Uh...

Gary Coleman:
You were telling a black joke!

Princeton:
Well, sure, Gary, but lots of people tell black jokes.

Gary Coleman:
I don't.

Princeton:
Well, of course you don't - you're black!
But I bet you tell Polack jokes, right?

Gary Coleman:
Well, sure I do. Those stupid Polacks!

Princeton:
Now, don't you think that's a little racist?

Gary Coleman:
Well, damn, I guess you're right.

Kate Monster:
You're a little bit racist.

Gary Coleman:
Well, you're a little bit too.

Princeton:
We're all a little bit racist.

Gary Coleman:
I think that I would
Have to agree with you.

Princeton/Kate Monster:
We're glad you do.

Gary Coleman:
It's sad but true!
Everyone's a little bit racist -

All right!

Kate Monster:
All right!

Princeton:
All right!

Gary Coleman:
All right!
Bigotry has never been
Exclusively white

All:
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
Even though we all know
That it's wrong,
Maybe it would help us
Get along.

Princeton:
Oh, Christ do I feel good.

Gary Coleman:
Now there was a fine upstanding black man!

Princeton:
Who?

Gary Coleman:
Jesus Christ.

Kate Monster:
But, Gary, Jesus was white.

Gary Coleman:
No, Jesus was black.

Kate Monster:
No, Jesus was white.

Gary Coleman:
No, I'm pretty sure that Jesus was black-

Princeton:
Guys, guys...Jesus was Jewish!

Brian:
Hey guys, what are you laughing about?

Gary Coleman:
Racism!

Brian:
Cool.

Christmas Eve:
BRIAN! Come back here!
You take out lecycuraburs!

Princeton:
What's that mean?

Brian:
Um, recyclables.
Hey, don't laugh at her!
How many languages do you speak?

Kate Monster:
Oh, come off it, Brian!
Everyone's a little bit racist.

Brian:
I'm not!

Princeton:
Oh no?

Brian:
Nope!

How many Oriental wives
Have you got?

Christmas Eve:
What? Brian!

Princeton:
Brian, buddy, where you been?
The term is Asian-American!

Christmas Eve:
I know you are no
Intending to be
But calling me Oriental -
Offensive to me!

Brian:
I'm sorry, honey, I love you.

Christmas Eve:
And I love you.

Brian:
But you're racist, too.

Christmas Eve:
Yes, I know.
The Jews have all
The money
And the whites have all
The power.
And I'm always in taxi-cab
With driver who no shower!

Princeton:
Me too!

Kate Monster:
Me too!

Gary Coleman:
I can't even get a taxi!

All:
Everyone's a little bit racist
It's true.
But everyone is just about
As racist as you!
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
And everyone stopped being
So PC
Maybe we could live in -
Harmony!

Christmas Eve:
Evlyone's a ritter bit lacist!


bit long, yes, but it serves a purpose.

Goodbye, I'm leaving.

I'm sorry, but was that really necessary? Do you think we could we get back to talking about double standards now?

Why, thank you for missing the point of my exaggeration.

I don't care what you call. It's the reality of most kids growing up in a ghetto, regardless of race. Your rejection of this situation is is due to believing the world gives every person an equal chance regardless of their circumstances, which is statistically proven to be a load of shit. Steven Levitt shows that socioeconomic conditions are deeply correlated to the level of success a child will show in the school system in his book Freakonomics.

Yes, the part where the South went to war to protect their economy based around slave labor. An economy who's premise is white people staying rich and black people staying slaves. Just because slavery was part of their economic system doesn't all of a sudden make it less bad.

Not that I'm saying the North wasn't also to blame. I'm not going to defend the North and say they committed no wrongs. There were good people on both sides of the line. But in the end, them winning was the better outcome for equality, obviously.

OK. I seriously looked, seriously. And now I have to tell you.... ok I can do this... he's a bigot and I'm not. There we go! Actually you're correct, I'm a bigot against those who'd like to claim the battle for civil rights has been won and we need to move on. Especially when it comes from people who don't know jack fuck about the statistics and the reality of living life in the inner city.

http://www.diversityinc.com/public/21699.cfm

An example of why you're wrong.

OK. So, I'm not sure why you brought it up in reference to the street then. Is it populated mostly by whites? If you're trying to make the point that white people are also victims of violence and poverty, I agree. However, by and large, minorities make up the largest amount of people below the poverty line and vicitims of far more many crimes related to gang violence or other inner city circumstances.

Fair enough, I apologize.

If you're in this situation then I wish you the best in what you do. You are one of the many fighting against the environment you were born into. My point still remains that a disproportionate amount of minorities are in your situation then are white people. Your conclusion that minorities shouldn't need any more help from the government may be true idealistically, but the government is doing next to nothing concerning poverty, so the next best thing are groups formed to help their race, and more specifically the poorer, more violence ridden places their race lives in.

You mean affirmative action pisses you off. Which I could agree with to an extent, in that affirmative action tries to fix the problem after it's too late. The problem with racial inequality starts way before an 18 year old goes to look for a job or to apply to a college.

So you're for the south concerning economic penalties they suffered that were unrelated to their slave system? I'd agree.

How does this prove me wrong? Are you trying to say that minorities in politics get too little recognition? I'm sure they do, but politicians don't get awards for things, unless they appear in some type of media. Thus, minorities aren't the only ones not being recognized for their political actions. Maybe there should be a politican award program. I'm sure at least a few would get some kind of recognition if such a thing existed.

Ahhh OK, I thought for some reason you were expanding on things beyond award-type things. Sorry. I'd agree that with most awards there's an equal chance between any race to recieve one. But then you also have to look at something like movies, like the Academy Awards. How often do you see a black guy in a dramatic, serious lead role? They may have an equal chance once they become a star, but becoming a star in the first place is the tricky thing, or getting that high in any field, I would think, is harder for a minority.