Suspenion of Disbelief and You
 

I was playing Ninja Gaiden Black last night and I started thinking as I sometimes do:

Who the hell built this place? Why did they make trap infested corridors ending in buttons that need to be pressed to open a door elsewhere? Why is there a lava pit with steam jets and a ledge as the only way to get across? Why a series of rooms in which you have to switch these stones around to open the door you want to get through?

I realize being a gamer requires a massive suspension of disbelief, it's necessary the first time you pick up a controller. Otherwise you'd have scoffed at a fat plumber throwing a fireball and walked away, forever cheating yourself.

Yet with games far more realistic looking these days, one starts to wonder. Sure it's a fantasy world, it's made up, but just for the sake of argument, who the hell built these places?

Anyone else have this sort of situation happen to them?

definitely... i was playing SMB (the first one) and managed to find my way into bowser's castle right? just before the end, there's a small stretch of water with bloopers and the rotating fire "arms". i never questioned how physically impossible it was to be hurt by fire while underwater before, or how bowser got them into the water in the first place for that matter.

i also wondered why in those castles the axe that dropped the bridge was there at all, or at least why bowser didn't use it to drop mario (well, that really didn't need much of an excuse because the game wouldn't be practical otherwise).

and on a general note, i think a couple times i also wondered how lava manages to find its way everywhere in old videogames: it seems everyone is able to make trips and carry it in buckets out to wherever they need in order to create a hazard for the hero.

I’ve wondered how heroes in RPGs could carry many items with them without extra storage. At least with the Resident Evil games, the number of possible items a character could bring was limited. I also found it strange that enemies and heroes in most RPGs I've played would take turns attacking each other.

I been trying to complete Super Mario Bros. recently I never really thought about that fire in the water thing when I got to that part! Sounds silly. =)

I find the taking turns thing fine. It's more of a representation of a fight - not a live action fight. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it...but if you consider a book, for example, reading a fight might sound turn-based (or perhaps CTB/ATB-based, because sometimes someone will strike twice xD).

I love the idea of the post-game though. Optional bosses and the like. If they wanted to rule the world, whew, our heroes would be a little screwed over in the main story. SO3 makes this point...I think the protagonists say something like "Wow, if he'd been that hard in the main game, we'd never have made it this far!" when they encounter a main-game boss in the post-game.

As for the suspension of disbelief, I'm fine with that too. If I've paid for a game, I just want to enjoy it. So unless I enjoy nit picking, I probably won't.
Suspending disbelief becomes increasingly easy, of course.
Perhaps in your first game, carrying 20 of each item (or indeed 99) including armour and weapon might seem a little funny - but you come to expect it after a while.
We make associations as well (and quite rightly so) - in Star Ocean, Till the End of Time, for example, one would assume it'd bear resemblance to other RPGs. Perhaps the Tales of~s series, or the Final Fantasys. So we'd be shocked if Fayt could only carry a measly two Valiant Armours. This helps in suspending the disbelief each time (ie, we only need to do it once). So not only is it necessary...it's easy too. ^ ^;;

On the other hand, if Solid Snake could carry 99 Claymores, we would be rather surprised. xD

Yeah, I've also wondered why for some of the more recent RPGs, your characters will wear the EXACT same clothing and have the same appearance, despite whatever the weather conditions are. I mean, let's see Wakka and Tidus walk around snowy environments with only wearing beach summer wear. Why not? This can be basically applied to most if not all types of RPGs, but meh, just a minor observation.

Perhaps its super heated magnesium flares that are fueled by a souce which stretches inside the core. I dunno. I just know magnesium flares are used by divers deep in the ocean waters. And I don't think they're safe to touch, LOL. The only thing though, is burning magnesium is brilliant white, while the fire we see is well, flaming red orange. Herm.

Personally I'd like to see the trend of games like Splinter Cell continue, albeit with the idea expanded on. Imagine Ninja Gaiden Black or Prince of Persia where instead of navigating these elaborate traps and such, you have to get from point A to point B attempting to utilize the architecture itself. The upcoming Assassin's Creed looks to blow the roof off with that concept and I can't wait. It just better come to X360 as well because I need Gears of War.

In SMB I always wondered why there was an axe there in the first place. Precariously placed in such a way that it could drop the bridge, no less. How come Bowser doesn't just grab the axe and hack Mario to bits?

While it's odd enough that lava is just laying about, I found it a lot more puzzling when a game had water as the deadly substance you couldn't touch.

How come clouds can support the weight of platform game characters?

Why, the same way that floating platforms with no apparent means of upward propulsion can!

They're probably just taped to the background layer. Maybe nailed, since Mario's fat, and they'd need to support his weight.

What was great was that in SMB3 it was a secret to be able to go behind the platforms. Truly 2D thinking right there.

I get a cackle out of the 99 cap =p

"Can't take anymore, dude. We have 99."
"Well... It's just an herb, dude. Probably weighs as much as a sheet of paper."
"Hey. We have 99. We can't take anymore."
"Let's make it an even 100!"
"IMPOSSIBLE! >8U"

No, those are solid, and all have their own tiny Master Emeralds powering them. My problem needs a totally different explanation.

All video game characters able to stand on clouds have top secret government boots that treat the clouds as solid objects.

What about Wonderboy, he's bare foot.

So you would think! Take a closer look.

These are the aspects of gaming that you're not meant to think of. It's like thinking "Why is an oversized purple dinosaur teaching kids how to read? Why does he have friends? Why are they implying that dinosaurs still exist?"

I did this with ICO. Why is there a specific box hidden in the corner, which convinently happens to fall somewhere allowing you to reach another destination? Why do stone seats allow you to save? Why is Yorda so stupid? I'M RIGHT ABOVE YOU, TAKE MY FUCKING HAND.

I don't read too much into it. When you start questioning stuff like this, you have too much time on your hands. The games are supposed to be for entertainment, not realism.

It's the same reason why most RPGs usually have a world population of 200. And why there is so much land in between cities. And why the world only has like 20 cities. Finally, the same reason why those houses in the cities have people in them and why they don't give a damn about you walking in, stealing an elixir off of the table and walk out of the house.

I'm not saying every time I load up a game I sit and ponder why the wolf I just killed is spewing gold and swords or why the only way to open a certain door in what is supposed to be merely a palace is 100 feet above the floor. You're right, that would indicate one not only having too much time on their hands, but not enjoying games as the escape from reality they're meant to be.

My point was that sometimes the thought just pops into my head that while it's good game design to have a complex path of ledges, poles to swing from, curtains to rip through, huge swinging axes to dodge, and other various dangers, it doesn't lend itself to an extremely immersive game experience. I've found the games I get the most into beyond simple enjoyment are the ones in which I'm doing things that are at least somewhat within the realm of human possibility.

Take Splinter Cell for example. Some people hate Splinter Cell, but I love the games. I love that everything Sam Fisher can do, a person in top physical condition could also do. To me that lends an extra bit of immersion to the game. I love my Prince of Persia, Ninja Gaiden, platformers, and my slew of FPS games that defy realism simply for the fact that you can take a slew of bullets and walk over top of a health pack to feel better. It just makes me chuckle :P

I wonder if he ever felt aggrieved that, while they could supply him with cloud walking studs, they had never thought up any more advanced techniques in the means of personal protection than to lob bits of flint.

Come to think of it, we never do see a fully side-on Wonder Boy.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2.../WonderBoy.gif

Is it possible there's a laser gun strapped to his back, out of view, for extreme circumstances only?

Perhaps. What we do know is that he went on to not only wear armor and brandish a sword:


but also had opportunities to indulge in drinking and the redemption of sexual favors from dinosaurs:

I had always wondered about some of the BAttlefield series. In BF2 you can fly a jet over the airstrip or aircraft carrier, and somehow magical floating mechanics will be able to fix your jet and re-arm it midflight. This also happens with helocopters.

Further, A medic can magically bring anyone back to life in a split second, even after being bombarded with artillary. The medic can also heal the most deadly gun wound by throwing magic healing bags at soldiers, which are sucked into the infantryman, healing them instantaneously.

Also you can jump from a 1 story building and use a parachute to avoid damage.

If a game is geared more towards fantasy and is well done, then I'll suspend my disbelief moreso than a realistic game that has something quirky going on about it.

Like with the Mario games, I dont' question it, I just play it. But a game say, Indigo Prophecy, it sometimes irritates me when it tries to simulate real life only to fall short, like not being able to perform an action when you have something in your hand. As long as the game itself is done well, I won't question it.

I really like it when I can blatantly spot out impossible situations like that. I usually only do so when I really get into a game and excited. Then I start thinking random things like: "Why does Terra's group have this load of items, and when take control of Celes's group, they have the same amount and kinds of items? Did my inventory double?"

For stuff like that, then you could even think farther by saying that if this were a movie adaptation and we see Terra use a potion, and Celes use a potion as well in some other part of Kefka tower, we would assume the two groups just split up their inventory beforehand. Thus it would be impractical to split it into an exact ratio in-game.
yeah...

When I think of this issue I'm much more amused rather than disgusted at how impossible most situations like this would be.

"How can I suddenly "spark" this grandiose axe technique "fuji view" in battle? Would I have not been trying to hit in the most powerful way beforehand? So that implies I wasn't trying?"

"Why can I summon a meteor shower from outer space easily, but have to cast 3 white elemental spells in a row before I can call in some winged dudes to throw javelins?"

"Why can I light someone's afro on fire in a battle, but I can't raze the battlefield by summoning this gigantic fire bird?"

etc.
You know you love the fantasy :)

I just want to know one thing: Where the hell did Dr. Wily get all of those Skull Castles from?

My guess: He just had an extended warranty on one and kept exchanging it after the old one was penetrated/got blown up.

Why the hell does Dr. Wily keep wasting money building elaborate bases with expensive robots confined in the last room?

I wonder how much the Mecha Dragon would cost to build IRL...Would give me something to look forward to doing if I won the lottery.

My suspension of disbelief is challenged only in certain instances or when I feel like being a smartass.

The MGS series is of special note here. In each installment, they up the realism of the combat engine, eliminating unrealistic but fun devices like instant-heal rations and a motion detector--neither of which I had any problem with--on the grounds tha they're not realistic enough. Yet at the same time, the plot becomes more ridiculous. Undead bisexual Gypsy? Check. 105-year-old super sniper? Check. Living bee swarm? Check. Those are fine, but not instant-heal rations, oh no--too unrealistic.

As for Dr. Wily, the trick is that he's really just rebuilding the castle over and over again, on the same spot using the same parts (mostly the giant metal skull left over from Dia De Los Muertos 1985). It's the perfect plot--who would ever expect such a move?

Which is all the time.

Ok. Crash Bandicoot's story makes no sense either. Tomb Raider's story also makes little sense. Why is there a bandicoot running around in the jungle collecting apples from pre-packaged boxes, or why is some girl running around the aztec half naked attacking crows. All these things are meant to be overlooked because they're a minor issue.

I'm usually able to suspend all disbelief in a game and get wrapped up in the universe. Until I notice a graphical or sound glitch. Then I'm snapped right out of it. Good example, Halo 2. There's so much pop-in and every single time I realise "oh yeah, this shit's retarded."

Otherwise, it doesn't matter. I don't like ruining games for myself over stupid things like odd trap-infested buildings and strange storylines.

Or a hedgehog. Or a fox. Or a frog. Or a dog. Or a cat. Or a (insert random animal to be fashioned into a badical character with 'tude!).

Frog? Why would I need to question Frogger? Frogs cross busy highways all the time. http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/im...cons/icon8.gif

Oh well, if gaming consisted of realism and realism only we wouldn't bother with gaming in the first place. I mean, Tails and Megalith. You really think they're going to be flying that fighter jet? No, so it's hello Ace Combat. Half of the games I play (semi-realistic) I wouldn't do. It's meant to be the escape from reality which sets gaming apart.

We could sit here and question a bunch of things which will ultimately be left unresolved. It's funny because some of the more realistic games aren't selling too well. Which reminds me, why must you cut everyone's head off in Tenchu?

Diablo II always struck me as a bit shocking in the amount of demons that one man/woman is able to take on and live to tell about it. Even Diablo 1, with a lot less coming at you at one time, seemed pretty wild in terms of enemy/hero ratio. Mostly this occurred to me because I was briefly considering some Diablo fanfiction and wondered how exactly I could bring about the feel of the games without turning it into something masturbatory and overtly false.

The one question that always sprang to my mind was "Doesn't his arm ever get tired?"

Why I can invade anyone's house and take their stuff and they just sit there idly

Grand Theft Auto is a pretty ridiculous game. A random killing spree takes only about a grand and the confiscation of your arms to get out of. All keys are left in the ignition of cars or the main character knows how to hotwire anything with wheels and a motor in record time. Policemen are the only drivers with locked doors. My absolute favorite thing would have to be how standing on the hood of a moving vehicle while stomping it like a campfire will eventually cause a fire from the engine, a few seconds later, an explosion.

I don't think of any of this stuff in games. At least, I don't think I do.

Besides, you're all forgetting the most perplexing VG mystery of all time: Where did the Koopa Kids come from? I don't see any female Bowsers anywhere in Mario's exploits.

maybe Bowser is a-sexual

In the original SMB, Mario is a terrorist. None of the enemies really actively seek you out (as far as I can remember), it's Mario who is running through the landscape squashing and burning.

I think that's where Birdo fits into the whole thing. As nightmare inducing that sounds.

Rippped right off of Infernal's Journal. Now when I see this movie, it just makes me go WTF. Maybe when I was 5 years old back then playing it, I'd be like whatever, but now....wow, how "enemies" have progressed in gaming history.

Earthbound was very believable. A bunch of snakes, birds, and dogs attack you, so you pick up the cracked bat from your sister's room and have at it. And then a meteor just happens to land at the top of the cliff, which is the SAME cliff that you live on with your evil fat neighbor. And at the top the giant meteor send a bee from the future to tell you that you and 3 children have to save the world....happened to me all the time.

In any RPG, I never understand why the hero only has one parent... I highly doubt the other one died valiantly for his family. It was probably stupidity. Also, out of everyone in the world they could've chosen, why this ONE person? I don't get it.

Well. One of their parents is sometimes involved in the story, hence making the protagonist's role special. Like Tidus, for example - he sort of only had a mum, but for a relatively good reason.

But I get what you mean. If they're royalty, they only have a father who promptly dies; if they're a layperson, they only have a mother.
Did Crono have a dad? :x

As for the second question, that's sort of looking at things the wrong way round.
You're watching the story of the hero. You're not watching the story of a randomly selected person. ><;;
Looking back on history, we could study all sorts of things. We could study (insert German name)'s story, or we could study Adolf Hitler's story. It just so happens that the second one is more significant and interesting, so that's the one people write about.

Ness had a dad....he was just somewhere else where you just happen to be able to get ahold of him via phone all the time.

I always just figured it was Peach...

You know, I've been playing Front Mission 3 for about 2 or so weeks now, and it's a pretty fun, if not addictive game. The thing though, is why the hell does the "troop of five" (Rudolf Kaiser, Rebecca Sydney , Greg Herigle, Hatari Khartoum, and Emilio Gusly ) keep chasing after you guys even though you've beaten them like 3 / 4 times already. I mean, HELLO, DO YOU WANT YOUR ASS KICKED MORE?

Why is it that when I utterly destroy a boss in some RPG, in the following cutscene, MY people are on their knees begging for forgiveness?

GET UP YOU LAZY FUCKS YOU WON THE BATTLE.

Bastards.

I always wonder where people go to the bathroom. Hardly any games have a bathroom in them, and when you're exploring the world, you'll need one in every town you stop in.

Video game characters just go in their clothes. Like in the days of yore.

I think the earliest case that I contemplated these things was back when I was playing the 2d Sonic games on the Genesis, I kinda wondered "why doesn't Robotnik just build a big wall in the level that's too high for me to jump over?". That's a kind of simplistic look at it, but really it does seem a little strange that the bad guys would make all these elaborate levels and fill them with hundreds of robotic villans, yet they never seem to build a wall in your path that's higher than you can jump or can't be broken simply by running into it.

One thing that did kinda hurt a game's belief for me is Star Ocean: The Second Story. A ways through the game, you go to a totally different planet that hasn't had contact with the outside world for a very long time. And yet the great thing is, all of the money that was used on the backwater planet you were on works just fine on the new planet! Hey guys, no need to convert money or anything, a shopkeeper in a futuristic world is more than willing to accept your rupees! And it's worth EXACTLY as much as it was on the other planet, you can even sell your equipment for the exact same price! You'd think that no shopkeeper would want the junk you got from some hick town, but I guess he does!

But really, RPGs are filled with all kinds of ridiculous things like that, but usually I just ignore them and concentrate on killing things. Come to think of it, I don't even know why we accept half the crap shoved at us in these games...I guess we've just been conditioned to not question all mannors of weird plot holes and bizzare non-explainations for various things. Hell, RPGs actually seem to be getting WORSE in that regard, Star Ocean 3's plot twist just blows the doors off any sense of logic or reasoning.

Oh, but I have to say that some games like Tomb Raider actually pull it off pretty well. The random switches and traps are actually there for a somewhat valid reason, and the levels design is fairly justified. Even the main character's role makes sense (duh, she's a tomb raider, not just some hillbilly off the street that happens to need to save the world). Most FPS games even have somewhat believable (if sometimes still flawed) settings for their environments and events. Obviously not every game needs this kind of justification for why your character is doing what they are, but at times it can help that whole immersion thing.


The same way Godzilla had a kid when there's no female Godzillas? Maybe the American Godzilla was onto something with that whole asexual reproduction thing, and hey, they're both lizards. Or maybe Godzilla is actually a female and hooked up with Bowser and they had some kids together (3 of which ended up being Koopas, the other was a Godzilla). See, any plothole can be filled if you take the time to come up with baseless reasoning.

I always found it funny how your character had all these fantastic superhuman abilities and yet when it came time to enter an area that was at that time was restricted entry, you couldn't get in. This usually happens in RPGs, and I can't think of a specific example at the moment, but I'd be saying to myself "the place I want to go is RIGHT FUCKING THERE! You're telling me you can run a 50ft Dragon through with an aluminum blade, and can command fire at will, but can't jump over a simple crate?!" Recently game designers have come up with much better reasons for why you can't enter certain areas like that which is a good thing.

Another thing that I found funny is in action games where you've got the arsenal of a small army, and can't get into a doorway. You've got guns that could take down Dinosaurs in one shot, why spend hours looking for a key when you could just point it at the door and be on your way?

Is that the English version? If so, how much was it?

I suppose I suspend my disbelief pretty well, as I tend to just accept everything that comes as part of the game world. I'll admit, though, that when playing a game where the main character is supposed to be powerful, only to be stopped because they don't have the right color key or some such is pretty ridiculous.

I think the first time I snorted at BS within a game was when I was playing Secret of Mana, and I found a fur bikini that was several points of defense more effective than the full-bodied armor my female character was wearing. I remember thinking, 'if I sent her into battle naked, would she be invincible?'
I'm also surprised nobody's mentioned how an eagle's claw is three times as damaging to a ninja as a bullet to the face at point-blank range.

Personally though, I think unrealism makes a game better by and large. Case in point: I tried playing a Law & Order game for PC and having a miserable time of it; you really have to be able to do investigations and legal battles well in the first place to have a chance, and you get regularly berated for doing poorly. By contrast, Phoenix Wright doesn't resemble court proceedings anywhere on Earth by even a little bit, but it's about 300% more fun. With a videogame, something that requires active input to enjoy, that's really all that matters.

Easy. Robots=Manual Labor. You don't think he only uses them for eliminating Mega Man, do you?

As for where he gets the funds, well that's easy too. He's a criminal, end of story.

I've been asking this question for years. That, along with "Where are they now?"

The last game I remember that hyped itself as having no obstacles and make your own path because locked doors don't mean a damn thing was Red Faction. Yet, in playing it, on the off chance you did get something explosive with which to blow a hole in a wall, you couldn't do anything to a locked door. If you were lucky enough that the wall next to it was breakable, then yeah. The door would remain standing even if the wall all around it was completely obliterated.

Oh, I just remember something that really bugged the hell out of me. In Legend of Dragoon (and in it's copy-cat that ripped off it's basic storyline and suckiness, Baten Kaitos), they have about the most unforgivable overlook in "story" design ever. Basically in both games, the characters can sprout wings when they get into fights and do all kinds of crazy acrobatic maneuvers, and often through the story they'll even break out the wings when need be...and yet when you're traversing the map, you are GLUED to the ground. And I mean GLUED. In LoD, there's a roughly waist-high log that you have to get past. So what do you have to do? Find a hatchet in some shack off the map and chop it down. Yes, the main characters have wings, and they can fly, but they need to chop down a waist-high lump of wood to get by. And of course there's no way they could go AROUND it, oh no.

And Baten Kaitos even ripped off that scenario, except they made the log SLIGHTLY bigger so that it doesn't look like you could simply hop over it (of course you should be able to fly right over it without any problem, but noooooo, flying is reserved for BATTLES so that you can fly in place! Not silly things like traveling!).

I can't count the number of times in each game that you would need to jump about 5 feet in order to bypass all kinds of crap in the levels, and yet you're totally unable to get there even though you can FLY! I'm sorry, some RPG plot devices I can overlook, but that's just unforgivable.

Easy. Nintendo went back in time (...what?) and killed them off, thus they now cease to exist.

DOUBLE JUMP.

Thank you.