My Nintendo DS Fear
 

Nintendo has been my favorite game company since the start of my gaming days in the 80's. Allow me to explain my Nintendo DS Fear starting from the beginning:

NES = This gave me excellent fulfillment in RPG's and multiplayer games with friends.

SNES = This gave me fulfillment in all areas it ever could: RPG's, multiplayer games, and 1-player non-rpg games.

N64 = No RPG fulfillment, but 4 controller ports and thus even more fun to play because you can play with more people.

GC = No RPG fulfillment, but the same amount of multiplaying addiction as N64.

So, Nintendo has been lacking in the quality RPG department since 1996 with the N64. I have not even been too mad at that fact because luckily Nintendo was smart enough to release RPG's for GBC and GBA. What a library that GBA has! So in "conclusion", Nintendo is the best company in all the genres because I can get fulfillment in multiplayer by playing their consoles and fulfillment in RPG's by playing their handheld systems...

*QUEUE THUNDER CRASH SOUND EFFECT*

...Until the Nintendo DS came out. It has been out for over a year now and there are little or no RPG's for it. I realize it's still early, but there are not such a good amount of RPG's in development for the future, either. As for present DS RPG's, Lunar DS was such a failure.
I'm not against DS for its WiFi playing or it's multiplayer playing or it's fun stylus pen action gameplay, but I fear that the DS is so different from the GBA, that Nintendo will now officially be a poor company in the RPG department in any of the video game systems they make. That is a really bad thing to me since RPG is my favorite genre.

So, discuss. What is your take on Nintendo's future direction and your take on different game genres for Nintendo systems?

They're coming soon. Children of Mana is out for the DS in Japan and Xenosaga I & II is out at the end of the month. I've seen video and pics of the latter and it looks fantastic.

But like everybody else, I want to see a free MMORPG. I'm sure it can be done, so do it Nintendo!

A WiFi online DS RPG would be my new addiction. I know it would not be as broad as a PC game (because the cart's are so tiny), but I'd love it. Perhaps it could be Shining Soul 3. (A diablo-like game that you obtain item drops and hack enemies).

The carts can be up to 1GB which should be more than enough for a MMORPG on a handheld system. It would be a good idea I reckon, but I don't know how likely it is this early in the life cycle of the machine. Seems like the kind of thing that doesn't happen until the console matured a bit. I'm not sure why.

Confirmed/released (all types of RPGs, don't know nothing about US releases, and it's from IGN so it could be wrong):

Iron Feather Action RPG DS News 01/24/2006
Pokemon Ranger: The Road to Diamond and Pearl Action RPG DS News 01/13/2006
Seiken Densetsu DS: Children of Mana Action RPG DS News 12/05/2005
Custom Robo DS Action RPG DS News 10/09/2005
Bouken-Ou Beet: Vandel vs Busters Action RPG DS News 08/17/2005
Deep Labyrinth Action RPG DS News 10/07/2004
Digimon World [working title] Action RPG DS
Baten Kaitos DS
New SD Gundam [working title]
Boktai DS RPG DS News 02/13/2006
Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time RPG DS All FAQs 02/07/2006
Lostmagic RPG DS News 02/02/2006
Tao's Adventure: Curse of the Demon Seal RPG DS Videos 01/25/2006
Wizardry Asterisk: Hiiro no Fuuin RPG DS News 01/19/2006
Rune Factory: New Harvest Moon RPG DS Images 01/18/2006
Harvest Moon DS RPG DS News 01/13/2006
Tales of the Tempest RPG DS News 01/10/2006
Korokke! DS: Tenkuu no Yuushatachi RPG DS News 12/19/2005
Slime Mori Mori Dragon Quest 2 RPG DS News 12/07/2005
Zoids Saga DS: Legend of Arcadia RPG DS News 12/07/2005
Tsubasa Chronicle RPG DS Images 12/01/2005
Mega Man Battle Network 5: Double Team DS RPG DS All FAQs 11/30/2005
Konchuu Kakutou: Mushi 1 Grand Prix RPG DS News 11/28/2005
Pokemon Mysterious Dungeon: Blue Rescue Force RPG DS News 11/28/2005
Spyro: Shadow Legacy RPG DS All FAQs 11/17/2005
Final Fantasy III RPG DS Previews 10/27/2005
Xenosaga I & II RPG DS Images 10/21/2005
ASH RPG DS News 10/12/2005
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles DS RPG DS News 10/05/2005
Monster Rancher RPG DS News 10/05/2005
Tingle RPG [working title] RPG DS News 10/05/2005
Lunar: Dragon Song RPG DS Reviews 09/28/2005
Doraemon: Nobita's Dinosaur 2006 RPG DS News 09/09/2005
Mysterious Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer DS RPG DS News 09/09/2005
Azure Dreams RPG DS News 08/10/2005
Pokemon Diamond RPG DS News 07/11/2005
Pokemon Pearl RPG DS News 07/11/2005
Naruto RPG 2: Chidori vs Rasengan RPG DS Images 07/07/2005
Far East of Eden II RPG DS News 05/12/2005
Dragon Quest Monsters RPG DS News 08/10/2004
RPG from Gamearts [untitled] RPG DS News 08/01/2004
Pikachu Demo RPG DS News 05/13/2004
Magical Vacation 2 RPG DS
Tsubasa Chronicle Volume 2 RPG DS
MAR Heaven: Karudea no Akuma RPG DS
Dark Reflections RPG DS

Also, Contact is a new RPG coming out from Suda 51 (of Killer 7 fame). It's also online, but no more details are really known.

Lost Magic will also be compatible with the WiFi connection for battles and such.

The DS better have GOlden Sun 3... i mean, to not follow up on a top rated RPG for a handheld system would be bad.

Even though I don't like RPG's that much, I'd like to find a good one to buy for the DS eventually. One that has more replay value in singleplayer than Tony Hawk's American Wasteland.

Golden Sun 3 would be pretty kickass, but as the story pretty much resolved itself at the end of The Lost Age, I have no idea as to what the game would focus on. The only place mentioned in The Lost Age that the characters never got to travel to was Anemos (isn't that what it was called?), the floating city that Sheba supposedly fell from.

I suppose now that Alchemy has been unleashed on the world, some new factions could try to harness its power... Revisiting all the old places in the game would be kind of lame, though. It needs something new and fresh.

I haven't finished Golden Sun 2 so I don't know the story, but in an interview with Camelot I remember them saying that both games were basically prequels to the entire Golden Sun mythos. Seeing as how Camelot's working on an unnamed "next gen rpg" for the Rev, I think it's very likely that it'll be Golden Sun 3.

At least I'm hoping it is. The Remote could make for some cool Psyengery moves.

I think it's pretty likely that Camelot's RPG is Golden Sun Rev (or at least it better be!)...

They also confirmed a while back that they weren't working on any DS games, which is completely understandable considering the small size of their team...

That is, assuming there is a Golden Sun 3

I think that perhaps you need to stop suckling at the RPG teat.

Unacceptable, I wany my Mario Tennis WiFi ASAP

Oh, DS RPGs. I'm looking forward to Tales of the Tempest and Pokemon Pearl/Diamond.

what makes you think that nintendo has something against rpg's? they sell dev kits to a ton of 3rd party developers. it's the 3rd party responsibility to provide you with the rpgs that you want, not the big n. nintendo is not to blame here for the lack of rpgs. also the ds is outselling the psp like crazy so if there are going to be any rpgs released on a handheld platform, chances are that they will be on ds.

Tony Hawk is my favorite RPG ever. A tear escaped my eye when he fell off the skateboard, I just wasn't expecting it to happen. Activision's the king of plot twists. How about that final boss, too! 720 twist roundhouse kick flip cockroach crawl burger king deluxe spinal, what a bitch. Holiday composed by Green Day was a touching song for the ending, really put the final touch on the epic!

Fuck off. DS is all about the future, innovation, fun and quick gaming. RPGS are all about bullshit ancient gaming conventions based around the limitations of hardware two decades ago.

There is no better proof in the way that all you RPG fanboys demanding fulfillment in this thread crap on about sequels and shit. Nup Camelot aren't allowed to have new ideas, has to be Golden Sun 3, can't be Silver Moon or anything like that.

Oh i see, playing through the same story, littered with tedius battles will likely have more replay value than a highscore game. Uhuh.

Whatever happened to Egg Monster Heroes, or whatever it was called, from Square-Enix? It was first mentioned as coming out close to launch, and it's slowly been forgotten. I haven't heard anything about it recently.

Yes--if the game happens to be Tony Hawk and thus you get sick of it after 2 minutes. =D

I certainly agree with the rest of what you've said, RPGs are like living fossils. But there are without a doubt ways to make the genre less of a bore, and a lot of them involve making optimal use of the DS hardware.

Yeah, it's been out almost a year in Japan. Don't think it did too well. And I guess the US release got canned some time ago.

Tough guy now huh?

RAB had some good points, but they were lost in his flaming rant of fury, so it's hard to actually take him seriously.

RAB's points are invalid and pathetic except for the fact that the DS is innovative and still awesome in many ways.
RAB symbolizes the downfall of video games as he believes that anything Tony Hawk's related is a good thing. It's people like him that are the reason why Sony is number 1 in sales.

Wow this thread is turning into some kind of super stupid. Shape it up or I will close it.

That's why there's RPGs like Vandal Hearts, Children of Mana, Ys Strategy, Lost Magic, Wizardry Asterisk, and Contact being made for DS? If they had such a poor reputation with gamers then the developers of these RPGs would be defeating the purpose of the DS' limitations.

Say that a genre is outdated based on hardware limitations is so inaccurate. It's not like it's some obscure genre like light-gun games, shoot 'em ups or music games. RPGs are in demand for their quantity as well as quality. The newer 3D RPGs have been pushing hardware limitations, not going unmade based on other possibilities.

The turn based battle system was invented because they couldn't simulate any kind of meaningful battle with a crosspad and two buttons. Since we are no longer playing on a NES because it's 2006 I don't expect Dragon Quest -Insert huge roman numeral here- to still be stuck with this same, almost unchanged system, despite us having analoge controllers with many times the number of buttons. Every single other genre has moved on from it's roots.

Yet the only example Elixer can give is the graphical improvement of RPGs.

Half Life 2 is far more than a graphically enhanced Wolfenstein yet what is Grandia 3 to Dragon Quest 1?

So back to topic. RPGs should shape up and embrace the future if they expect to be worthwhile additions to the DS library. Tales of the Tempest at least looks to be trying with it's touch screen controlled tri-linear motion battles.

You don't fix what is not broken.

My old 56k modem works just fine, guess I don't need this fancy DSL thinger! Just because something works doesn't mean it shouldn't be improved upon. If everyone followed the way you're interpretting that saying then there'd be no progression at all.

Which is pretty much the case with modern RPGs. The only thing different between them are the characters and the stories, and even those are practically (ALMOST EXACTLY) the same. It's been like this since RPGs hit the market. Almost all of them are the same damn thing. Time for something new.

That analogy does not work because I can just say that DQ8 is a T1 line (which it is to me and to many people).

Non-random battle RPG's are not fun because when I want to venture out into the world I want to venture out into the UNKNOWN and just have my wits and my items to keep me going rather than know where the enemies are before the battle appears. It's not fun to venture into the KNOWN. That's part of the thrill that RPGs should be having. If I want to play a game which the enemies are seen, I will play a video game like Diablo 2 (which I love) or any other action/RPG. Standard RPG's with shown-enemies suck.

What? You need to work on your analogies.

So you dislike Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana? Are you retarded?

I don't need to work on anything. The reply to "If it aint broke dont fix it" is not "my 56k modem works fine so theres no point in getting DSL". That is totally not what I was talking about. So "KnowsNothing" needs to work on it.

CT is one of the worst RPG's ive ever played. Haven't tried Mana.

Haha okay I had to do an ip check to make sure you weren't someone's joke account.

I suppose you hate Earthbound and any of the Mario RPGs as well then. ='D

Acer Bandit for the KO. B awar that seiken, mArio, saga, tactics, and mmo fans are currently targeting your posts for flamz.

An if ur plyin the DS lookn 4 RPGs of value, ur totally misinterpretting the system and its target audience. DS, as far as geeze can tell, have been action/strategy subclasses of rpgs, if at all. Utilization of dualscreenz is limetteded by teh traditionnal format of rpgs you seem to been sekkin. (Spare maybe Into The Blue and select othurrss)

You missed the train out of nintendarr (an handheldz in general) w/ teh intrest of trad. rpgsz.

My IP and posts are being "checked" all of a sudden just because of my opinion?
I was one of the people that saved GFF by donating one of the large sums of money so don't even begin to think I'm a bad guy here.

The DS is an excellent console. I love Kart and cannot wait for Tetris. I just want the RPG aspect to live up to what the GBA did.

As for Earthbound - haven't tried it but I had a friend in the 90's who played it all day. I have Super Mario RPG and like it. I believe they did great with the enemies that are on the map because it requires me to do more. I feel like im playing a semi-3d mario game and an RPG at the same time. I also like paper mario games. Not such a fan of the gameplay of M&L games though.

You have a terrible opinion, so it's natural that we assume you're not serious. Also your sig is terrible. I don't think there could be anything more incidental than your selection of quotes.

In any case, comparing Dragon Quest VIII to a T1 line isn't too far off, I suppose, assuming that the Dragon Quest combat system is the transfer of data through packets as opposed to some other heathen method of data transmission.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" is a very fitting adage, because fanbases don't want their favorite franchises to make drastic changes. They become accustomed to how certain things are done, and any deviation from that is viewed with criticism. While this may seem petty, I can't think of any example of an RPG franchise drastically changing its combat system in a way that was superior to its predecessor.

Games like Dragon Quest don't change, and really shouldn't change, because the target audience of an established franchise should always be the established fanbase. Any deviation from that school of thought invites disaster.

Don't you remember the CT opinion thread before GFF went down? There were a few people in there arguing that CT is one of the worst RPGs ever. CelticWhisper gave it a 1/10. I explained as much as I could why I dislike CT, while Celtic fully explained in every way why he hates CT. So it is incorrect to say that I am not serious with my opinion because I think CT sucks. You are just saying that because you cannot accept anyone disliking it. You probably cannot comprehend anyone disliking it. (I, perhaps, cannot comprehend anyone hating FF4).

And my sig sucks? What business is that of yours? It's just a quote from Shining Force CD showing the true evil of some bosses in the game. Who cares what my sig is but me?

As for the 56k modem / T1 line garbage. I didn't originally bring it up. I think it's stupid to make analogies like that anyway, so let's just change the subject. I simply replied back with the point that DQ8 is a really really good game. That was my point. And that is my opinion.

And your final thoughts are correct.

I'm sorry, it is imperically impossible for Chrono Trigger to be the worst RPG ever. Even assuming you didn't like the gameplay, there are other aspects of game design like story, art, and production values that add to the overall atmosphere of a game.

Actually, the turn-based battle system was invented because people didn't feel pathetic enough to LARP. It's the only way you can allow complete roleplaying control without actually making a fool of yourself in public, and to a certain extent, provides even greater control than LARPing, since all aspects of a character's abilities are determined by the player, spreadsheet, and the die.

Turn-based combat isn't the problem with RPGs, far from it. The problem is that most people don't view RPGs as anything more than spreadsheets with linear storytelling. An innovative console RPG would be something that actually allows a player to choose his role in a gameworld beyond what is chosen for him. That is the one thing that hasn't been taken advantage of when it comes to new hardware, is the ability to create open-ended gameworlds where a player is given choice.

If you think he's a joke account, at least he's consistent.

He's always been this stupid!

Aww.. no one out there can accept that a few people out there dislike CT.

No, I could care less whether you like CT or not. In all honesty, I haven't even played through it.

I'm saying you're stupid because every word out of your mouth is stupid, regardless of any meaning or opinion attached to them.

"Flaming is the act of posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting, usually in the social context of a discussion board".

... so clearly you have a lot of growing up to do, unless you go back on the main topic of video games, and quote what I have said in this thread and tell me why my points are bad ones.

Well really, all the random battles are doing is keeping you from exploring the UNKNOWN. You get to a brand new section, the same purple blobs or radioactive ants attack you every single time you dare to take a footstep. Complete with the background that never changes. You might have been near a waterfall, with some flowers and trees, exploring! But no, here come the enemies, and now all of a sudden you're standing in the middle of nowhere.

I can really only think of the Breath of Fire V, which, while being a not so great game experience, had an excellent combat system, completely different from the previous titles (the whole game structure and design was drastically changed as well).

Naturally, virtually every single BoF fan despised it even though it was a far better game and a brave attempt especially from a company like Capcom.


And the poisonous weeds, don't forget the poisonous weeds (or spiders)!
Why a piece of seaweed would ever have poison, much less move and attack heavily armed strangers passing by in the first place is beyond me, but they anyway ALWAYS get at least one attack in before you kill them even at much higher levels so you always get at least one character poisoned from every fight.

I like going into the unknown of when, how, and where a battle is going to come, and what that battle is going to be and who the monsters in the battle are going to be.

I could care less about going into the unknown of the "sights and sounds" of the ahead because it is just all fake video game graphics.

So i was trying to make a point about enemies and battling, but I get why you thought I meant the "unknown" of whats ahead in the graphical aspects of a game.

Graphics = least important thing to me, ever.

Thanks for completely unnecessary definition of "flaming." I'm well aware of what it is, and I'm aware of the fact that I'm doing. In fact, I'm almost intentionally doing it! I bet you never figured that out!

Clearly you have a lot of SHUTTING THE FUCK UP to do. I'm skipping the bullshit of refuting your "points" and just calling you an idiot flat-out.

Besides, it's been long on the downward spiral, so why bother.

Haha, maybe the seaweed just came back from the doctor, who explained the reason he was feeling sick was because he has some terrible disease! But it can be cured with an injection, except that he realizes he's dealing with a piece of seaweed, and the needle would just go straight through him. So Mr. Poison Seaweed heads back home, which for some reason might be a mountain or desert. Depressed, he decides to end his life.

But much to his delight, four random people dressed in elephant sized suits of armour appear (except for the two females, who are in bikinis). He knows he won't stand a chance, and steps in front of them.

"WHOA! WATCH OUT! SEAWEED! IT'S GLOWING, TOO, POISON!"

But it's too late! Mr. Seaweed has already coughed on one of the party members, and now they too glow.

"NOOOOOOOO! YOU'RE GONNA PAY FOR THAT, DEMON FROM HELL!"
"Oh but I'm just a heap of seawe-AUUGH"

There's a blinding flash, he's dead. And in an ironic twist, Mr. Seaweed drops a big bottle of potion to cure any poison effects as he fades away.

Oh. Well, okay. Fair enough. Personally, I slog through RPGs for their story and worlds. Graphics and such. The turn based battles often bore me to tears. Especially when I'm trying to get to a save point so I can turn the game off, and there's about fifty random encounters on my way there.
Super RPG 4000 features over fourty hours of selecting the attack command!

I think the DS has a ton of potential for most genres. You can do a real lot with a touch pad. Since we're all talking about RPGs, the stylus can be used to select commands and stuff, which speeds up the process. Maybe they can work in some sort of seal system like in CV: Dawn of Sorrow, where you need to draw magic seals to cast spells.

In regards to Nintendo's future direction, I think it's the right direction. It's the direction they always go in, and it's the direction that has consistently worked throughout the years. Innovate, get copied, repeat.



Also, I loved Chrono Trigger.

As an addendum, when I was talking about Turn-Based combat, I was referring more to combat taking place on a tactical grid. The whole I-attack You-attack thing is something RPGs can do without.

Borg, you skipped over a major handheld that has a TON of RPGs on it that is also playable on the DS, and that is Gameboy Advance.
I tend to think that RPGs are more bang for your buck because they take longer to complete in most cases (if you thoroughly complete it with sidequests and what-not) and they take game developers longer to create.
You also have to keep gamers interested storywise while potentially having large gaps in between story sequences when players level up, shop, etc. Battles should also be innovative and not limited to the same old formula, even if it worked flawlessly in the last incarnation. There is always room for improvement or creativity. Still, this can be a very difficult balance to attain.

I mentioned GBA in the very first post for being so good with RPGs.

It doesn't mar the fact that you basically skipped over it's titles by only giving it a mention. It literally brings DS' RPG library to near NES levels!
Still, I agree with you about DS needing more RPGs. The innovations in the genre that could be done using the dual screens is provocative, and yet unsuccessfully tapped.

The thread is about DS, so I didn't want to discuss GBA too much.