Civil War Discussion Thread
 

In my attempt to revive this subforum, and with my current enjoyment of Marvel's Civil War, I decided to start a discussion thread about this. Now, we all know many people have conflicting views about Civil War. Some say it's nothing but a way for Marvel to get back at DC's Infinite Crisis, while some say it's the most interesting thing Marvel came up in the past years.

As for me, I am enjoying Civil War so far. I can't it's better than Infinite Crisis since I'm not that well-versed with the DC universe to completely absorb and understand the event. As for House of M, it was ok, can't say CW will be better, but the HoM events kind of lead to CW, so I think they're sort of inter-connected. Bottomline, I'm loving it.

So, true believer, who's side are you on?

I love it. It's so much better than House of M and Infinite Crisis. All of the tie in issues have been fantastic, unlike the HoM and IC tie-ins. Frontline is turning out to be just as great a read as the main Civil War series. The art and the writing in CW are both fantastic. I cannot wait for more.

I'm on Captain America's side. As much as I dislike him (due to how he has treated the Thunderbolts in the past among other things), he's got the right idea this time. Stark and co. are just wrong. I'm anxiously anticipating Spidey's switch to Cap's team.

Perhaps what has me most curious is finding out which characters will abandon the life of a superhero and which characters will die. Millar has commented on how he disliked Infinite Crisis' mass murdering of heroes and how he wants to make any deaths in Civil War actually mean something. I have no idea who's going to get killed, but I can't wait to find out. This is going to cause some great story arcs in the future.

I'm on Cap's side simply from a nothing-else-makes-sense standpoint. In a recent Handbook I learned that the Mutant Registration Act failed because it was deemed unconstitutional. Yet, this Act appears to be going along fine. Heck, the government was able to start enforcing it before the President even signed! People aren't even able to openly protest the Registration Act, and I know that's unconstitutional. I love how the goal is how there won't be any more massive attacks because all the heroes will be trained and monitored. That's a pipe dream.

I really hope that Thor returns in issue #3 and begins straightening these people out...

Nice idea. I'm having trouble getting all of the relevant issues but I've gotten a decent number so far, so I think I can discuss :D

One of the key differences between this and the Mutant Registration Act is that the MRA was discrimatory against a Race, in the literal sense of the word, as Mutants are technically Homo Superior. Yes they are nearly human, except for the obvious use of superpowers, but they are still genetically different them Homo Sapien.

This new Registration Act is trying to put some sort of enforcement and accountability on Any Superpowered being that resides in the United States (And later on if this passes the UN may even pass a similar "International" version, if the Security Council Agrees). The constitionality of this new act is allowed since Superpowered beings are not protected under any current anti-discrimination laws, whereas Mutants would be protected.

What issue did this happen in?

They are not able to protest? Why on earth not?

I just read the Fantastic Four issue #536 where the Doombots help Dr. Doom to reach Mjlonir, but can someone quickly explain why Doom is able to get the Hammer so where Thor is in all of this?

Nvm, read the relevant issue

OH, and I'm not quite sure who's side I'm on.
No, I'm not a fencesitter, but I'm just not sure yet, have to read up more first :D

After reading all the lead-ins and side-issues of this i really got to say i dig, and i dig hard. And all of the civil war stuff is on jetsam so if you dont have, DOWNLOAd.

Uhh... Civil War #1.

I just started reading comics like a week or two after Civil War #1 came out, and although I don't know much about the whole universe, I must say that this has me loving my new hobby. The Front Line series is among the best comics I've picked up so far out of anything, the writing in it is absolutely fantastic.

But, then again, I'm not buying all the tie-ins. It is just too much for a newbie to absorb all together at once (as well as pricey when you don't even know what you like or don't like), so I'm missing tie-ins like this week's Thunderbolts.

At any rate, I really like how this goes. I wish I had started a few months ago, but good timing nonetheless.

BM - you need to start downloading books. If you would like suggestions on what to check out, feel free to ask. I read a ridiculous amount of books each week.

Well, my problem is that I don't like reading books/comics/etc. online. I know it is pricier to not pirate, but it's just not something that would be enjoyable to me online. Seems to ruin the experience a bit.

lol, serves me right for not reading to that part yet.

I guess I want to try and read it in order, for some reason
or other. No big deal if I read ahead though. Unless there's
a ZOMG ____ DIES!! spoiler in an upcoming issue (Which has
been assured there will be).

For those of you that are interested there i uploaded a checklist to jetsam, so you can all read it in correct order.

SimCity(nes): You should try it out, download some from jetsam and use cdisplay to read it, it's very smooth and after a couple of comics you dont even think about that you are reading on the computer.

Definitely seconded. I stumbled upon the world of digital comics when I started downloading the "Chronological X-Men" torrents and was left thinking "wtf is a .cbr". There is a certain nostalgia with holding the paper comic in your hand and all, but CDisplay is so user friendly that you definitely won't mind that you're sitting at your comptuer reading after one or two.

A google search leading to Zip's Civil War http downloads prompted my first visit to GFF, thanks for that btw. Except that those upload sites have a terrible limit on how many things you can DL from the site per hour or so. Even still, I've now read Civil War up to the most currently digitally released issues and wow.

This has got to be one of the most interesting story arcs I've read in comics. Not read Infinite Crisis, but after seeing the Wikipedia page on the dozens of different Earths, I'd rather stick with my X-Men issues (I'm up to 1986!) and my Civil War for now, thanks.

As far as whose side I'm on, I'd definitely have to say Cap. I do agree that superpowered beings should have some sort of accountability, but having them all be required to register their real names and become employees of S.H.I.E.L.D. defeats the purpose of having them around. The whole point of a superhero is that, regardless of their personal moral code, they more often than not have a vigilante brand of justice that a government official would never approve of.

It's odd. I agree with some of the things said, like when a villain breaks out and kills a whole mess of people for the third time, when does it start being Spider-Man's fault for not taking the threat down permanently. Yet I still don't think that registration is healthy for a superhero's family and friends.

mikey rocks for buying the actual comics. I would buy the comics if I had the means, but unfortunately I'll be sticking to scans for now.

I'm wondering what the Thunderbolts are up to, I just read #103 and it seems that Baron Zemo is up to something and is just using Iron-Man as way to achieve his (or his team's) goal.

FadedReality, you can visit us at #comics (irc.xelium.net) and you can access our http CW downloads.

After I downloaded the "civil war pack" from a bittorrent site and scoured the latest DCP releases for the most recent issues from the checklist, I found out that they were in jetsam :doh:

The best example of this is in Civil War: Frontline #2 where Prodigy protests and is engaged in combat by Iron Man after refusing to stop. Another example I've run across is the police trying to arrest Yancy Street thugs for protesting, though I believe that they were actually damaging property.

There is supposed to be a hero returning in the pages of Civil War #3 in a "flash of lightning" (or however Previews put it). Presumably, Thor, after retrieving his hammer in the pages of the FF as Donald Blake, will return then.

I thought that Thor was returning in the Fantastic Four book...

Also, what is Jetsam?

login: comics
pw: password

I was going to wait for the trades, but I bought the issue where Spider-Man reveals his identity and I got hooked. I'm so far enjoying every aspect of Civil War, and it's forcing me to read a lot of books I wouldn't pick up otherwise.

Like Sensational Spider-Man 28? That was an absolutely fantastic issue. You all must read it.

yeah, that's a good one. I think that Spider-Man Unmasked is one of the best plot lines in years.

I'm also really loving Frontline. especially the Speedball stories.

Ya, the Speedball stuff is great. I'm really anticipating the next issue of Frontline so that I can see where they are going with it.

So far my problem with the story is that the Pro-Reg side is not very sympathic. Stark is acting more like and more like Lex Luthor and Reed Richards is nothing like the character that was redefined by Mark Waid.

I think the Pro-Reg side is the right side, because in nearly every country you have to pass a test to get a drivers liscense so why can`t the Regristration Act be just like getting a liscense

Well, so far they've been focusing only on the anit-reg side. Perhaps in the following issues we'll see what's happening on the other side. We, I hope they do, maybe show why some people chose to be on the registration side, etc.. So, so far, we can't really say which side is the right one.

Nah, I think that they are aiming to make out the Pro-Reg side as the villains in the story, so I doubt that we'll be seeing much sympathy towards them. I'm pretty sure that Spider-Man is going to be the central figure in the coming issues.

I'm convinced that Spider-Man will change sides to Cap's team, and when he does, he'll switch to his old costume. my reason behind this? there hasn't been any merchandise made with the new costume. tee-hee.

Alright, so I'm reading the Newsrama interview with the editor of Civil War - Tom Brevoort.

Predictions - Death & Funeral - Captain America (actually, I have no idea, but he is getting the shit beat out of him in #3...)

Betrayal - Spidey switching sides

Team Reborn - Avengers, obviously.

Something tells me that Spider-man might be killed off.

Yes it would be a major upset (As would Cap's death), but it would also prove to be one of the most emotionally powerful reasons for the Civil War to stop (I expect him to be killed near the end of the war).

It would really be some brass balls of Marvel to do this, but its about time somebody that everyone knows gets killed off.

Thor's involvement will certainly be interesting to see.

I don't think Spider-Man will die, he's just too well known and loved. If it did happen though, it would be the single ballsiest(?) move in comic book history.

- WraithTwo -

Never going to happen. He's got his solo monthlies. Ah, it's going to be MJ or Aunt May. That would lead to Parker switching sides for sure.

Yeah, that makes sense.

#3 sure seemed like they wanted to forshadow a breakup of the Fantastic Four too, you know, wake up from a coma and go "what the hell are you idiots doing", etc. It was just short enough to know it will be a major plot point.

The FF breakup has been spoiled in the solicitations already. Half of them (looks like Thing and Reed) and Pro, and Sue and Johny are going to be against it. The only question that remains now is will Sue stop being "neutral" and actually fight?

I think Ben might go Anti Reg just like Sue and Johnny, based on the way he was acting in the last issue of F.F. I think only Reed is gonna stay Pro Reg

I agree, but for now he's with the Pro reg people.

Well in my defense I only said "Might".

Realistically the chance of losing Spider-man is practically nill, but remember when DC did (For a time) kill off Superman, thier mascot and the number one popular super-hero? (Say what you want about the Marvel Universe, but Spider-man IS very popular in mainstream society and is one of the few characters to be instantly recognizeable, on part with Superman, Batman, Captain America & The X-Men in recognition). That DC Comics were ballsy enough to do that to thier character (Despite that he 'came back' later on), it would make sense that Marvel would do something just as unexpected, or at least I would like for that to happen... that Marvel would kill off someone you never even thought of. There's just a lot of little hints that something is going to happen to Spider-man, subtext clues I think.

BUT: If MJ or Aunt May got killed off, well that would certainly give him a reason to stop supporting the registration act, not to mention would be a serious morale drain & emotional rollercoaster. Hard to say which would affect him worse: Aunt May is basically his only close relative, with his Uncle Dying, and Mary Jane is his best friend AND wife, with Gwen Stacey being killed by the Green Goblin.

Still, I'd love to see the Comic World's reaction if Spider-man is incapaciated, like maybe put into a Coma or something, ... something life-threatening.

As far as the Fantastic 4 go, I wonder what side Ben Grimm will take. His loyalties are probably closest to Johnny Storm (As they are as close as brothers can get without being blood).

Finally, I just read Wolverine #42, and I can't wait to see if he's able to track down Nitro (Or more likely, WHEN he will track down Nitro).

Heh, actually it's coming.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8...1897jt4.th.jpghttp://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6...1899ue6.th.jpg

Source: http://photos.superherotimes.com/sho...y.php?cat=1241

Anyway, does anyone know if they plan on reprinting Civil War #2 or Amazing Spider-man #532? Cause I missed out on both, and tried to get the reprint of ASM#532 but were all sold out when I got there.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think Spider-man is fucked. Honestly, by this series end, he'll probably wish he was dead.

- WraithTwo -

Actually, I just read the details on the Civil War panel at the latest Con and they've stated that Ben will finally decide that he is against Reg and will be moving to Europe instead of fighting against it.

A bit of a segue here, but what exactly is the difference between your garden variety superhero and a mutant? Is it that mutants are born with their abilities while super heros acquire them through some other means?

If Superman were in the Marvel Universe, would he be a mutant?

A mutant is someone that was born with a mutation in their gene pool. Superman wouldn't be a mutant because he was never human to begin with. A mutant, aside from their mutation, are otherwise completely human.

- WraithTwo -

Well, that makes sense. And I suppose I asked a fairly obvious question, but in my mind mutants and superheros were kind of the same thing: people (who may or may not even look like people) who can do some interesting things with their bodies. Thus I thought it was interesting that mutants were discriminated against while the regular capes flew around everywhere just fine... but I suppose this is a comparison already being drawn in the Civil War stories.

Obviously, you've forgotten the Death of Superman. That took guts. It would have been greater had he stayed dead, but, in this case, neither would Spidey. So it's really not much different.

I didn't like Civil War #3.
There's a paper with a picture of three of the Sinister Six on it. Didn't we just stop Lizard in Sensational Spider-Man? Hasn't Doc Ock been in custody since Millar's run on Marvel Knight's Spider-Man? (I've been noticing this a fair amount recently, but why are all documents and papers in Marvel written in Latin? Look at the one's in this issue. Look at the thing Speedball was supposed to sign in Front Line.)


The whole identities thing and the continuity with Cable & Deadpool seems a bit off. But maybe the events in Cable & Deadpool happen shortly before that dinner scene.

Cloak can be tranquilized? I was under the impression he couldn't be hit by anything. And how does this stop them from teleporting? Cable has that whole bodyslide system.

Some characters are acting out of character. Sue Richards and Thing working with Tony? In their own mag, Sue expressed her discontent on the issue, claiming she didn't want to fight people she'd worked with. Thing sympathized with the protesters on Yancy Street and also seemed to dislike the idea of fighting other heroes. Doc Samson almost never solves problems with his fists. Being involved in a battle of heroes is really out of character. He usually solves things through psychoanalysis and observing. I mean, it's fine for him to support the Act because he works for the government frequently, but I think it's a stretch to say he'd fight for it.


I would like to point out that there are a few good points. I like the stances of the School (as I've already said), Black Panther, and Dr. Strange. I'd prefer to see Strange end the whole thing by just making the Act disappear and doing a mind-wipe, but I guess that would be cheating. The art's a little better this issue, but I've isolated the problem: it's not dark enough. McNiven's art is too sunny for this dark tale.

that would be the most major mistake Marvel ever made. they wouldn't do it in a thousand years.

That's what I was saying above, as Superman's death was the basis of my theory that they might kill off spidey. That DC had the guts to kill of supes (At least for a time being) means that Marvel now has an example of what would happen, and could pull a similar stunt.

Not that It's bloody likely to happen, but if Marvel wanted to really pull readers in... well that's one way to approach it.

Its not on the Jetsam site, do you happen to have a way for us 'true belivers' to get it?

Well, I bought a copy at my local comic book store. Other than scanning the comic and then finding a site to store such scans, there's nothing I can do. You could read the synopsis on Wikipedia, I suppose.

A question, are the planning to release a Director's Cut version of CW 2 and the rest of the issues?

Cause I'd love to get my hands on that issue.

Well I found a link for it and now I have it. I'll see about uploading it tomorrow at school for the rest of you (Its about 12Mbs unrar'd) :)

However, I am still missing (In read order BEFORE CW #3):
Marvel Spotlight: Millar/McNiven
Amazing Spider-man #532
Thunderbolts #103
Wolverine #43
X-Factor #8

If anyone has any of those, let me know!

Civil War 3 is on Jetsam now, actually. Civil_War_3__of_7__-_Mark_Millar_-_Steve_McNiven__2006___RIP-ODB_.cbr

Lawl, nevermind then :tpg:

I just read frontline 4. I really like the adventure of Ben. It's nice to read something about ordinary people in the marvel univserse. Only thing i dislike is that last part where they draw lines to diffrent wars and stuff.

the little stories at the end are OK, but they could stop putting them in their altogether and I wouldn't notice. it's all the same to me. just a few more pages they could dedicate to Ben or Speedball.

Well, I liked the story in issue #2 where they compared Iron Man's actions to the start of the major Roman Civil War between Caesar and Pompey. I made the comparison between this war and that one in another thread once.

I would love if Jenkins would stop with the poetry at the end of each issue of Frontline and use those extra pages for some more story. I`d rather see more Ben Urich then some poetry about Japensese internment camps

It is story. I think that the comparison to other wars is a great idea. It certainly makes the whole Civil War concept seema lot more significant as a piece of fiction.

Its filler. It doesn`t expand any of the different story lines, and it doesn`t deepen my understanding of any of the characters. Its basically a step above an advertisment.

The whole point of the poetic parts of Frontline are to expand on a major event within the issue by comparing it to something within history. In this way, Jenkins effectively makes parts of Civil War (or at least Frontline) have a dash of realism.

Which I find cool. Like how he compared the attack on the anti-reg heroes with the soldiers at 'nam. It showed that not only the "heroes" are involved/affected by this event.

Hey guys, I've got all the CW issues and tie-ins update now, but have yet to read any of them. Is there a specific order I should be reading them in? Eg. CW1 then Amazing SM 532. Or does it matter at all?

Yes, it definitely matters. There should be a reading list somewhere on the net. Google for one.

Been surfing around and the best I found was this fan made one.

Another one here, but it seems incomplete: http://www.avengersdisassembled.com/...rtimeline.html

Is there an official one floating around? Or do most of you guys go by the checklist (which appears to be by months, and in alphabetical order)? I'll definitely be reading the "Road to Civil War" issues first, but probably won't start the main story till I get a more solid list of what the order is like.

I read everything as it's released, so I don't check anything for my reading order. I think that Marvel released a Civil War checklist, so that's probably in order.

Maybe Civil War and the tie-ins need a Mike Carlin-like system of plot flow...

http://www.opimage.co.uk/u/daikon/cwchecklist.jpg

I just use this, it's not updated though.

That doesn't seem to be the reading order. It's just an alphabetical checklist. The best thing to do is to check up on the release dates for the books and read them as they came out.

Yea, I think I'll do that. Just look up the shipping lists on Diamond and make a list from there.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com...d.php?t=132152

If you guys need help, this is a thread specializing in figuring out the timeline.

Crikey, you mean the the checklist ain't chronologically accurate?

Could one of you folks post and update the reading order of Civil War that makes the most sense? Currently, the Jetsam civil war reading order is based on that alphabetical checklist :P

As best as I've been able to determine, this is the reading order:

New Avengers: Illuminati
Fantastic Four #536-537
Amazing Spider-Man #529-531
Civil War #1
Wolverine #42
She-Hulk #8
Civil War: Front Line #1
New Avengers #21-22
Amazing Spider-Man #532
Civil War #2
Thunderbolts #103 (part of it during CW #2)
Amazing Spider-Man #533 (also during CW #2, but after Thunderbolts)
X-Factor #8-9
Civil War: Front Line #2
Fantastic Four #538
Daily Bugle- Civil War Special
Wolverine #43-44
Civil War: Front Line #3
Thunderbolts #104
Cable & Deadpool #30
Black Panther #18
Civil War #3
Civil War- X-Men #1
Civil War: Front Line #4
Fantastic Four #539
Amazing Spider-Man #534
Civil War: Front Line #5
Ms. Marvel #6

Special Note: In regards to X-Men titles, it should be read X-Factor #8 and most of #9, then CW #3 slides in, issue 9 finishes (where Cyke is still around), and CW: X-Men begins

Keep in mind that, in some circumstances, the depicted orders of some events don't agree (which shouldn't happen, but does anyway).

I found this today on comicbookresources.com:

"CIVIL WAR" TO SEE DELAYS

by Jonah Weiland, Executive Producer
Posted: August 15, 2006

Marvel Comics told comic retailers Tuesday afternoon that their highly succesful "Civil War" series will see some significant delays. Issue #4, originally schedued to ship tomorrow, has been moved back to September 20th, with issue #5 moving from an October release date to November 15th. Marvel issued the following corrections to their shipping list.


Over the next few weeks, the CIVIL WAR proper title and a few of the tie in books that are closely related to the story in the main book will be shipping later than originally planned. In an attempt to accommodate the creative team of Millar and McNiven and maintain the artistic integrity and high standards of the event, we will be shifting the following titles:

CIVIL WAR 4 (JUN061952; $2.99) moves to 9/20
CIVIL WAR 4 TURNER VARIANT (JUN061953; $2.99) moves to 9/20
CIVIL WAR 4 TURNER SKETCH VARIANT (APR068201; $2.00) moves to 9/20

FANTASTIC FOUR 540 (JUN061961; $2.99) moves to 9/20

CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 6 (JUN061955; $2.99) moves to 9/27

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 535 (JUN061938; $2.99) moves to 9/27

CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 7 (JUL061956; $2.99) moves to 10/11

CIVIL WAR 5 (JUL061952; $2.99) moves to 11/15
CIVIL WAR 5 TURNER VARIANT (JUL061953; $2.99) moves to 11/15
CIVIL WAR 5 TURNER SKETCH VARIANT (JUL061954; $2.00) moves to 11/15

CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 8 (JUL061957; $2.99) moves to 11/22

PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL 1 (JUL061988; $2.99) moves to 11/22
PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL 1(Black & White)(JUL061989; $2.99) moves to 11/22

FANTASTIC FOUR 541 (JUL061965; $2.99) moves to 11/22

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 536 (JUL061941; $2.99) moves to 11/22

CIVIL WAR 6 (AUG062033; $2.99) moves to 12/20
CIVIL WAR 6 TURNER VARIANT (AUG062034; $2.99) moves to 12/20
CIVIL WAR 6 TURNER SKETCH VARIANT (AUG062035; $2.00) moves to 12/20

CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 9 (AUG062036; $2.99) moves to 12/20

PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL 2 (AUG062066; $2.99) moves to 12/28

CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 10 (AUG062037; $2.99) moves to 1/4/07

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 537 (AUG062018; $2.99) moves to 1/4/07

FANTASTIC FOUR 542 (AUG062045; $2.99) moves to 1/4/07

NOT YET SOLICITED
CIVIL WAR 7 moves to 1/17/07
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 538 moves to 1/24/07
FANTASTIC FOUR 543 moves to 1/24/07

NEW ADDITIONS TO THE CIVIL WAR CHECKLIST!
BLACK PANTHER 23 CW December 2006
CIVIL WAR: WAR CRIMES December 2006 ONE SHOT
BLACK PANTHER 24 CW January 2007
BLACK PANTHER 25 CW February 2007
CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE 11 February 2007

Additionally, beginning in November, some Marvel titles will be branded as "Casulaties of War," similar to the "Road to Civil War" branding titles leading up to the mini-series received. Those titles are:

MOON KNIGHT 7
CAPTAIN AMERICA: WINTER SOLDIER SPECIAL (December)
IRON MAN/CAPTAIN AMERICA SPECIAL (December)
MOON KNIGHT 8 (December)
BLADE 5 (January)
MOON KNIGHT 9 (January)
-------------
Man, all these delays suck. But, I guess I can't be too surprised, delays happen all the time in comics.

xman25

OMG. I can't believe that they FUCKED THIS UP. Now I have to wait ANOTHER month to find out who dies in issue 4. I'm friggin pissed. And on top of that, they haven't dalayed all CW related books?! WTF. Now I'm going to be reading stuff way out of chronological order and get totally confused/spoiled for the delayed books.

Yeah, looks like they havn't delayed the two Iron Man tie-ins, Ms. Marvel #7 & #8 (2nd & 3rd tie-ins), the Civil War: X-MEN mini-series, the Young Avengers & Runaways Civil War mini-series, Heroes for Hire mini, New Avengers #23-25 (3rd, 4th, & 5th) tie-ins, Cable/Deadpool #31 & #32 (2nd & 3rd) tie-ins, Wolverine #45-47 (4th, 5th & 6th) tie-ins, Thunderbolts #105 (its last tie-in), and Captain America #22-24 (all three tie-ins). I figure if they are going to delay Civil War titles, why not delay them all. Everything or nothing. There's some logic behind all of this I guess.... Oh, accommodating the creative team. Shouldn't they accommodate us, we're the ones having to pay for all this, both financially and time. Well, anyway, I hope this helps them tell the stories.

xman25

Man that sucks. Glad I haven't really started reading into the series yet. Might as well wait until at least CW#4 releases. Rather confusing that they only delayed the Fantastic Four and Spider-Man tie-in issues and not the others too. Wasn't it their original plan to the finish the series before the end of the year? I wonder if we'll get any sort of compensation for the extended wait (though I doubt it, unless the new additions count as that).

Anyway, these new additions sound interesting, more Blank Panther, another CW: Frontline, and that one shot CW: War Crimes sounds pretty cool too. The "Casualties of War" titles sound like more must haves as well.

Big (SHOCKING!) surprise. Millar can't get his shit together on schedule.

I had hoped and hoped that this wouldn't turn into another Ultimates. Delays, and waiting forever for the next issue. Sadly it seems that's just what may happen. Speaking of the Ultimates 2, where the hell are my #12 and #13 issues Mark.

If he wasn't such a damn good writer I'd have dropped the books on principal by this point.

But his writing is the reason I stopped getting MK Spidey and would've avoided President Thor, had it been my place to decide. Granted, Ultimates is awesome and Ult. FF is currently okay (I don't know about this week's yet) but that's about it. To each his own, I suppose.

Yeah, I was speaking of his writing pretty much exclusively to Ultimates and CW. Everything else is alright. But personally I think Ultimates 2 is probably the best written superhero book (not) on the shelves right now.

Blasphemer. Ultimate Fantastic Four has been FANTASTIC ever since Mark started writing it. Marvel should have kept him on the book.

Haven't we had this discussion before? And given his current tendency towards lateness, I'm not sure they should've kept him on the book.

Have we? I don't remember. Also, I have a feeling that McNiven is the one delaying Civil War. Maybe something bad happened to one of them?

But ya, splitting Ultimates 2 #12 into two issues and then delaying them was a slap in the face. I'm glad that I don't pay for them.

Its not Millar thats the problem its McNieven. Millar admitted on his board that McNieven had no lead time and that Marvel was planning on having a fill in come in for 5, but they changed their minds because they didn`t want it to turn into IC with lots of fill ins.

From comicbookresources.com:

"MILLAR & McNIVEN RESPOND TO "CIVIL WAR" DELAY NEWS

by Jonah Weiland, Executive Producer
Posted: August 16, 2006

When the news broke yesterday that Marvel would delay the release of "Civil War" to allow artist Steve McNiven time catch-up and finish the series himself versus bringing in another artist, the reaction was loud and sometimes contentious in comics communities all over, including here on CBR's own Civil War Forum.

First up, Mark Millar responded to the news on his forum here:


All I can say is that this is really good of Marvel. Why? Let me explain. Civil War is seven issues long and both the first and last issues were extra-sized. Steve is a pretty fast artist, maybe a nine or ten books a year guy, but he only had a six or seven week head start on this series. Absolutely nothing at all. And it was always going to catch up with him, especially given that 100 characters appear in every issue and it's the most labour-intensive thing he's ever drawn. It also happens to be the BEST work of his career and Marvel could easily-- EASILY-- just done what DC did and stick fill-in guys on the series. In fact, we EXPECTED it for issue five because we knew a lot of titles like FF and so on were tying in.
But you know what? They didn't. MCW has rocketed Marvel profits lately. The new figures aren't available yet, but we're doubling and sometimes trebling the sales on the tie-in books, the anthology title-- an ANTHOLOGY TITLE-- is doing over 100K and we're heading towards 400K with the book itself. Marvel believe in the project and they feel me and Steve have formed a good team. Something they don't want to fuck with for the sake of squeezing a few more bucks into the next financial quarter and so, after doing their sums, decided they'll take a hit. Now this is a pain in the arse for being reading the book because it means waiting a few more weeks for Steve to finish. It's also a pain for people enjoying the tie-ins. But Steve is hammering away here and these books will all be done and dusted by the New Year and the series, and tie-ins, will all be published completely soon afterwards by the original teams and without some grotty fill-ins. It also means the collections remain looking great.

It's a hiccup, sure, but I appreciate what they're doing. Seriously, it would have been easy for them and made them MUCH more money to get someone else in to draw issue five, but they believe in our thing, it's worked out bigger and better than any of us dreamed and they want it to look as cool as it was originally conceived.

In short, apologies for the art delays, but it's worth it.

Lotsa love, MM

Later in the day, McNiven spoke with fans through Mark Millar on the Millarworld Forums and addressed the issue:


Hey folks, just thought I should get a post up here. First up apologies to the fans and retailers of civil war. The responsibility for the art delays lies with me, period. I've been working harder than I ever have, (and this is my third profession), but this is the hardest project I've ever done and as Mark said, I had little lead time. It was as big a surprise to me as anyone else that Marvel changed its publishing schedule to allow Mark and I to finish the series together.
When I was sent word of this yesterday, I realized the problems that this will cause for readers and retailers immediately. After reading Hitchy's post I am beginning to understand why Marvel went this way, but it still amazes me. Of course I am proud of the work I have done on Civil War and I am chuffed that Marvel feels the same way, but I worry for the people that could be negatively effected by this. Please realize that the art delays were never meant in a malicious way nor am I being a prima donna with my work. What I'm trying is to do service to the exceptional story that Mark has written. That's it, and is all that I focus on when I'm at the table. I let Marvel know exactly where I am on a daily basis, from day one, so that they can make the decisions like the one they have made. I'll continue to work hard to put out the rest of this series with the best work I can do in the time I have been given and I hope that you, the fans and retailers will stick with us, 'cause Mark has written a real gem here.

Thanks,

Steve

"Hitchy's post" is in reference to a message left by artist Bryan Hitch earlier in the day supporting Marvel's decision to delay the series:


It's easy to think that having a late book is terminal and everybody flies into a panic because it's been a condition of the industry for so long. This is an industry that has, for most of it's seventy years, made it's living on periodicals and we all know they have a limited shelf life. If your book is a month late n the magazine racks your space goes to somebody else because the stores and newsagents wnat it filled.
This is not the case now; for a start comics are mostly sold in specialty stores and they will keep books on shelves for far longer than a single month, secondly there has been an enormous growth in revenue from collections and so called graphic novels.

Years back Perez hit his deadlines on Crisis by eventually going to breakdowns but had Ordway on finishes so the standard was high. Nobody was expecting twenty-five years of continued reformatting and sales of the collections, they were just aiming at deadlines. However, as much as I love my Absolute collection of Crisis as a mark of my comics reading childhood, I don't love the fact they had three different styles on the finish from three different inkers. I hate that on Infinite Crisis that so many cooks are involved when the fab Phil J should have been allowed to complete the project for my own tastes, anyway.

Two of my favourite re-reads in collections are Dark Knight and Watchmen. Nobody now remembers that each was late at the time of the original periodicals but that was a blip, a couple of years in each's 25 year publication history and these will STILL be published 25 years from now. I love these books but how awful would it have been if the otherwise brilliant Jim Aparo had drawn issue 3 of DK, or that DC had Alan Davis do an issue of Watcmen. Both brilliant guys but you would have hated the blip in the collections for the short term gain.

These days we have the benefit of hindsight and there are precedents. You can't set out to create a classic or a series with longevity but it's getting easier for publishers to spot them as they unfold because the collection market is so large now and one can see what works and what doesn't. A fill-in might potentially stave off an unfortunate delay but hurt the long term property potential and the only reason a company would consider a fill-in necessary would be to avoid a financial hit in the short term not to keep you guys happy. If they are willing to take what must be a massive hit in the pocket, believing in it's long term potential, to allow it's creators to finish the book as intended then that isn't really a bad thing.

If we do things the way they have always been done then we don't develop. It pays to be flexible, I guess and Marvel obviously believe they are doing the best thing in the long game for a product they believe in and one that has already proven more successful than they belived possible.

Mark isn't exaggerating when he talks of how quickly this thing was put together and the small lead time. Nobody had intended the book to even exist; other plans were in place but the geniuses of Bendis and especially Mighty Mark started the ball rolling that Mark would evolve into Civil War (which also means we have to find a new title for our big follow up, so thanks MM). It's also been the biggest jobs of both Markie and Stevie's careers and required an enormous amount of work from both. Watcmen was bi-monthly remember and wasn't a crossover. I envy them their massive sucess but not the even more massive work involved. Nobody gets paid more for working harder in comics.

Mark and Steve should be applauded for the efforts as those efforts are a clear indicator of why the book is a success. Marvel should also be applauded for making sure everybody gets the best prossible product. It's a delay guys, not a cancellation. Certainly not a crisis!"

Also from comicbookresources:

"CIVIL WAR" EDITOR TOM BREVOORT ADDRESSES DELAYS

by Jonah Weiland, Executive Producer
Posted: August 16, 2006

With the news of delays to come for "Civil War" out there as responses from the creative team already in, CBR News took a moment to catch up with "Civil War" Editor Tom Brevoort to discuss the delay, the reasons behind it and how Marvel is addressing the issue for fans and retailers.



Q) Tom, thanks for talking with CBR on a day that I'm sure has been pretty hectic. Let's begin by making sure we're all on the same page here because there's a yelling and screaming and finger pointing throughout the Intner. Steve McNiven said previously the delay is primarily to accommodate his schedule and to allow him to finish the series himself. In your own words, what was the reason for the delay?

A) The reason for the delay is to ensure that we'll be able to finish this project with the same creative team that we began with, and at the same quality level we've maintained so far.

And not that anybody will believe me when I say this, but these delays aren't at all because we're changing the story "Armageddon 2001"-style. [Editor's Note: This is in reference to changes made mid-stream during DC Comics' Armageddon event. Half way through the series the identity of the villain was revealed and last minute changes were made to keep a surprise ending.] There are some elements that are shifting around-hence the new 11th issue of "Front Line," but that's simply an issue of us having more elements on the canvas than we have space for in the remaining pages. But the ending that you will read will be the same ending we spent two days coming up with at our editorial retreat back towards the end of '05, the one that Joss Whedon visited briefly. Sorry, conspiracy theorists!

Q) In the past when faced with a situation like this publishers have often simple brought in a guest artist. Why the decision not to bring a guest artist in on "Civil War" to keep the series on time?

A) It's no great surprise: fill-in artists suck. And as much as everybody complains about delays like this, and how they're going to hurt sales and interest, the plain fact of the matter is that fill-in artists hurt it worse - they just do it more quietly, so people who aren't in the industry and don't see the sales numbers don't really realize. For all that everybody's up in arms about the delay, what readers really want when you get down to the content of what they're saying is for the project to be monthly by Mark and Steve. And when that becomes an impossibility, you have to ask yourself what's going to cause more lasting damage, long-term? I'm glad that people seem this upset because it shows that they're really into the story, that they can't wait until the next one comes out, but the reason that they feel that way is because Mark and Steve are producing an incredible book. And as soon as you bring in a replacement, you can immediately see the ardor of the fans start to cool.

To throw out two examples, look at "Ultimate Extinction" and the follow-up "Ultimate Galactus" series. They all sold well enough at the end of the day, but as soon as we had to bring in substitute artists - quality artists in all cases - the momentum of the series immediately started to slow. That trilogy should have been a monster seller for the Ultimate line, but it wasn't. And I think the reason that it wasn't is that the integrity of the project was compromised as we tried to meet the schedule. And that'll also effect the long-term sell-through of the "Ultimate Galactus" trade paperbacks. Or you can look across town at the end of "Infinite Crisis." You can almost chart where the bloom started to go off the rose at the moment when they had to pull Ivan Reis in to do a couple of pages in issue #3. In the short-term, people were willing to put up with it, but as each successive issue had to rely more and more heavily on substitute artists in greater and greater quantity, you could just see the dissatisfaction creep in - to the point where what seemed to be most discussed about issue #7 was the art inconsistency. I'm not saying that DC was wrong to do this - I don't know what kinds of financial pressures they might have been under, or publishing plan pressures they might have been under. But what I can tell for certain is what it did to the reading experience. And having seen that, I choose to try to learn from it.

Plus, these days you simply have to factor in the eventual trade paperback or hardcover collections, as they've become a significant part of the revenue stream. On another board, Bryan Hitch correctly pointed out that nobody today really remembers the four-month wait between "Dark Knight Returns" #2 and #3 - heck, most of the people reading this likely first read that story as a collected edition. And that's because the work is strong, and has stood the test of time. It wasn't compromised simply to meet the monthly schedule, and as a result, DC and the retailers will be able to sell it forever. I think that's the model for the future.

Q) Word is that Steve McNiven was given a shorter than normal lead time for this project at just six weeks. Is that accurate?

A) No, not quite. Steve had a shorter lead time for the project than we might have liked, but he sent me the first page of issue #1 on 1/3/06, so he's been actively penciling on it since the very tail end of last year. But it's a complicated book and a complicated story, and includes numerous characters that Steve isn't all that familiar with or hasn't completely wrapped his head around drawing before this. And it's at the center of a massive promotional spotlight, so the pressure to excel is incredible.

Q) Allright, so not quite as short a lead time as some have said, but still a shorter lead time than you would have liked. Why exactly was there such a short lead time?

A) It's pretty simple. We didn't come up with the concept for "Civil War" until that writer's retreat towards the middle-end of 2005 - September September I think it was. And the lay-of-the-land at that moment was perfect for it, provided that we got underway immediately, perfect in a way that wouldn't necessarily be the same another six months or a year down the line.

Q) Would you mind explaining to our readers what exactly this lead time means for Steve?

A) I'm not sure where the six weeks number came from. Steve takes about six weeks to pencil an average comic book, so maybe that's it. So I can't chart where it's being calculated from as a starting point. What I can tell you for certain is that I received the first page of issue #1 on 1/3/06, and that was for a book that shipped to stores on 5/3/06, so that's four months right there (although, to be fair, that first book was larger than normal, and you have to shave off a month of time for when the book actually has to go to the printer, approximately 4/3/06.)

Q) One of the big issues brought up by fans on many different forums including our own is the question of whether Steve McNiven could handle the schedule in the first place. According to Steve's own admission, he's not the fastest artist in the world and once said that he's only capable of approximately nine issues a year. With hind sight being 20/20, was it a mistake to schedule "Civil War" #1 when you did knowing Steve's artistic speed?

A) No, because without Steve McNiven we wouldn't have had "Civil War" to begin with. Mark was supposed to be taking this year largely off, to rest and recuperate at the instruction of his doctors. But he came up with the idea behind "Civil War" and was excited to do it - but it would only be worth the personal sacrifice if he could do the book with Steve. If McNiven had been unavailable, or uninterested in the project, there wouldn't have even been a project in the first place.

Plus "Civil War" is a crossover, and a crossover involves coordinating events across the entire line of books. As such, it's far more timely in terms of the overall publishing plan than an ordinary story. If we decided to try to hold off on "Civil War" until, say, December, what that means for the rest of the line is that none of the creators on any of the regular books can do anything to substantively change the status quo in their individual titles. Talk about working in a straitjacket, not to mention comics that the readership will quickly grow bored with.

Q) Why wasn't there more advance notice about the delay given to retailers?

A) We were trying to be responsible, believe it or not, and give retailers the whole picture of the ripple effect these changes would have to the entirety of the back end of "Civil War's" shipping schedule. It would have been the easiest thing in the world for us to simply say that "Civil War" #4 was going to be a week late, and then two weeks late again a week later, and so on, but we wanted to give everybody as much ample warning as possible, especially retailers so that they could manage their cash flow.

Q) What kind of e-mails and calls have you been getting from comics retailers? What feedback are they giving you? Does Marvel have any plans to help soften the financial blow some smaller retailers will take as a result of this delay?

A) I don't know the sum total of the response we've been seeing from retailers - that's more a question for David Gabriel. But on the matter of the financial blow, one of the things that changes along with the revised shipping schedule is revised Final Order Cutoff dates. So any retailer who believes that these delays are going to decimate his readers' interest in the project can immediately go to the Diamond site and cut back their orders. Or, if they need to reallocate funds for cash-flow reasons, they can reduce their CIVIL WAR numbers now, and re-up them in two weeks' time. So other than the fact that they're not going to be seeing "Civil War" dollars when they were expecting to, I don't know how much damage this can really have on the smaller shops. I may be missing something, though.

I do know that this is the biggest pain in the ass for the retailers, and I'm sorry that they have to deal with all of this.

Q) Essentially, the delay announced by Marvel constitutes a two month delay for issue #5. Will the series return to monthly publication following the release of issue #5?

A) I can tell you that for certain that they won't - which is what that whole list of dates and adjustments was about. We reworked the schedule for the entire back end of the crossover, and all of the affected titles, and gave those new dates to everybody all at once so that they could see how this will domino across everything. And hopefully, we've calculated correctly, and everything will go off like clockwork from this point on. But I'd be lying if I said I could absolutely guarantee that - the writer, for example, has a chronic disease that could quite possibly take him off the board at any time for an undetermined amount of time. Or it might not - but it's impossible to say for certain.

Thanks, Tom.
--------

xman25

That's a lot to read, especially this late at night, but I want to comment on this part. Is this really going to be considered the best work he's ever done? Maybe he's forgetting Meridian. Maybe he doesn't realize that McNiven's art doesn't really suit the Civil War story. Maybe he means in a sense of, "This is what he'll be remembered for."

...

Alright, so I feel like a jerk for getting all antsy. Hitch made me realize I was wrong. Solid decision by Marvel. Multiple artists really do ruin books.

Double Post:
Doesn't fit the story? Uhh... I find it perfect. Ok, well, that's just another area where our tastes disagree.

Thanks for the info xman25! That really gives us a much clearer view on the situation. At least there'll be consistency in the art for the CW series, which is clearly what Marvel wants for the series.

It just doesan't seem dark enough to me. Those last few pages in #3 were the only ones that seemed to have the right mood. Just thought I should clarify.

I'm not surprised to hear all of this. From my experience, it's usually the artist holding a mag back. Recently, it happened in IC, as mentioned. I believe it also happened in Uncanny.

From silverbulletcomicbooks.com:

Civil War Checklist Expanded

Posted: Friday, August 18
Posted By: Keith Dallas

The biggest crossover in Marvel history has gotten even bigger. And to help fans keep track of their essential Civil War reading, Marvel is releasing a new Civil War checklist through retailers on September 13.

The updated checklist can be found below with the additions highlighted in yellow. Civil War has yet to even reach the halfway mark, so be prepared for even more shocks and surprises as war takes its toll on the Marvel Universe.

SEPTEMBER

CIVIL WAR #4
CIVIL WAR FILES
CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE #6
CIVIL WAR: X-MEN #3
CIVIL WAR: YOUNG AVENGERS & RUNAWAYS #3
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #535
CABLE & DEADPOOL #32
CAPTAIN AMERICA #22
FANTASTIC FOUR #540
HEROES FOR HIRE #2
MS. MARVEL #7
NEW AVENGERS #24
WOLVERINE #46

OCTOBER

CIVIL WAR: CHOOSING SIDES (One Shot)
CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE #7
CIVIL WAR: X-MEN #4
CIVIL WAR: YOUNG AVENGERS & RUNAWAYS #4
CAPTAIN AMERICA #23
HEROES FOR HIRE #3
IRON MAN #13
MS. MARVEL #8
NEW AVENGERS #25
WOLVERINE #47

NOVEMBER

CIVIL WAR #5
CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE #8
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #536
CAPTAIN AMERICA #24
FANTASTIC FOUR #541
IRON MAN #14
MOON KNIGHT #7 ("Casualties of War")
PUNISHER: WAR JOURNAL #1
WOLVERINE #48

DECEMBER

CIVIL WAR #6
CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE #9
BLACK PANTHER #23
CIVIL WAR: WAR CRIMES (One Shot)
IRON MAN/CAPTAIN AMERICA SPECIAL ("Casualties of War")
MOON KNIGHT #8 ("Casualties of War")
PUNISHER: WAR JOURNAL #2
WINTER SOLDIER: WINTER KILLS ("Casualties of War")

JANUARY 2007

CIVIL WAR #7
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #537
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #538
BLACK PANTHER #24
BLADE #5 ("Casualties of War")
CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE #10
FANTASTIC FOUR #542
FANTASTIC FOUR #543
MOON KNIGHT #10 ("Casualties of War")
PUNISHER: WAR JOURNAL #3

FEBRUARY 2007

CIVIL WAR FRONT LINE #11
CIVIL WAR: BATTLE DAMAGE REPORT
BLACK PANTHER #25
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I'm split about Marvel expanding the Civil War checklist. On one hand the expansion adds to the story. Gives a more in-depth look at how everyone and everything is being affected by what is going on. On the other hand it could thin out the story, stretch it out too far. Make the story become too big and difficult to keep track of. Plus, it makes keeping up with the whole story more expensive. Some people might not be able to afford to pick up every single issue. They would miss out on some (potentially) important plot points/story arcs.

xman25

thx for the update. I keep digging this civil war more and more.

Sweet ass cover for CW4! The Turner variant looks cool too.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3...w004dctsw1.jpg
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1...004adctex1.jpg

Source (contains an interview with Tom Brevoort): http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/C...WarRoom03.html

As I was reading that, it felt to me like Brevroot didn't know his own story in some cases. Dr. Strange is in the Sanctum. Really. Cable is a cyborg? (I guess it depends on how you look at it.) And using guns?

It seems to me that he's trying to say that events in FF take place a few weeks before Civil War #3, but that doesn't fit into the timeline we've already laid out. This might explain Ben and Sue's presence at the battle.

You mean you haven't seen Liefeld's work? =P

p.s. Cable isn't a cyborg. Who said this?

In my experience, a few have. However, the comment was directed at statements made my Brevoort.

Last I checked cable simply had cybernetic implants...

Looks like 3rd prints of CW 1 and 2 are on the way! Along with 2nd prints of CW: Front Line 2 and 3, Thunderbolts 104, and Avengers 21. They're also releasing CW ASM Decisions, which is a comic that collects ASM issues 529-532.

Source: http://www.marvel.com/news/-1.593

From silverbulletcomics.com:

Civil War Tie-In Heroes for Hire #1 Sells Out

Posted: Friday, September 1
Posted By: Keith Dallas
Print This Item

The first issue of Heroes for Hire, leaping directly out of Civil War, has sold out at Diamond and a Second Printing Variant is on its way.

In Heroes for Hire #1, writers Jimmy Palmiotti and Justin Gray along with fan-favorite artist Billy Tucci (Shi) bring to you a new ongoing series filled to the brim with action, adventure, and kung fu.

Palmiotti says, "Heroes for Hire features such an eclectic group of characters that there really is something for everyone in this series, and the book selling out so fast proves it. We are extremely happy about this news and the follow-up news that there will be a second printing only makes me happier because I know people will have another chance to pick it up if they missed it. We want to thank Marvel Comics, the retailers who support us and especially the fans."

Shawn Hill of SilverBulletComicBooks.com says Heroes for Hire #1 "is a nice read... with a strong concept and a diverse and interesting cast."

A group of heroes including Spider-Man's former flame Black Cat, the Daughters of the Dragon Colleen Wing and Misty Knight, the Master of Kung Fu Shang Chi, Paladin, and an all-new Tarantula unite to form one of Marvel's unlikeliest groups ever.

Also, be sure to pick up Heroes for Hire #2, a Civil War tie-in, as comics' newest team begins their hunt for the country's most prominent fugitive - Captain America.



HEROES FOR HIRE #1 SECOND PRINTING VARIANT (JUL068294)
Written by JUSTIN GRAY & JIMMY PALMIOTTI
Pencils & Cover by BILLY TUCCI
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$2.99
FOC - 9/14, On Sale - 10/4/2006
-------------

xman25

Was Heroes for Hire any good? I flipped through it and didn't like the look of it, so I didn't bother picking it up.

It was entertaining. It's main job was to set up the main characters. It did it well. I imagine things will get going with issue #2.

xman25

Heroes for Hire was pretty awesome. It was a fun book to read. It had its serious bits, but the main focus was on comedy.

It would have had to have been with Paladin looking like that.

I found this on comicbookresources.com:

"CIVIL WAR: CHOOSING SIDES" - THE WILDCARDS OF WAR
by Jonah Weiland, Executive Producer
Posted: September 7, 2006
Official Press Release

Civil War is encompassing the entire Marvel Universe and the effects of the war are being felt by every hero, villain, and civilian. Civil War: Choosing Sides One-Shot features five stories that shine a spotlight on the wildcards and impact players whose part in the Civil War has yet to be told, including Daredevil/Iron Fist, U.S. Agent, the Irredeemable Ant Man, Venom, and even…Howard the Duck!?

While the heroes wage war on one another, just what are the villains of the Marvel Universe up to? Mac Gargan, the supervillain known as Venom, is looking at a country full of preoccupied heroes. That spells trouble for anybody in his way. Written by Marc Guggenheim with art by Leinil Franics Yu, this Venom story shows why the psychotic symbiote’s bloody role in Civil War is just getting started. Everyone will be amazed where his story continues.

Danny Rand, the man who has recently moonlighted as Daredevil and who possesses the power of the Iron Fist, has joined Captain America’s Anti-Registration crew along with his former partner Luke Cage. Find out the reasons behind Iron Fist’s decision in this story by Matt Fraction and David Aja in a story that leads into the new Iron Fist ongoing series from Fraction, Brubaker, and Aja coming this November.

In a story by Robert Kirkman and Phil Hester, Civil War sees the birth of brand-new superhero with a classic name in the Irredeemable Ant-Man. When a low-level S.H.I.E.L.D. agent comes across Hank Pym’s prototype for a new Ant-Man suit, the entire Marvel Universe is in trouble. This “hero” isn’t looking to help mankind, he’s looking out for himself. Not only does this story feature the first appearance of the new Ant-Man, but it leads directly into the new ongoing The Irredeemable Ant-Man #1 in October.

Captain America has chosen a side, but what about the man who briefly took up his mantle, the U.S. Agent? In a story by Michael Avon Oeming and Scott Kolins, John Walker has to choose a side – the government he has always remained loyal to or the man whose legend he attempted to uphold? The answer won’t be what you think.

Plus, “Civil War: I’m With Howard!” What happens when you’re an alien duck stuck in a Civil War? The most asked for tale of Marvel’s Civil War…does a Master of Quack Fu need to register? Find out what the Super Human Registration Act has in store for everybody’s favorite surly duck in a story by Ty Templeton.

Don’t miss the Civil War: Choosing Sides One-Shot as the characters from these five stories gear up to make an impact on Civil War.

CIVIL WAR: CHOOSING SIDES (JUL068173)
Written by MICHAEL AVON OEMING, MATT FRACTION, ROBERT KIRKMAN, TY TEMPLETON, AND MARC GUGGENHEIM
Penciled by LEINIL FRANCIS YU, DAVID AJA, PHIL HESTER, SCOTT KOLLINS, AND TY TEMPLETON
48 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99
FOC 10/5, On Sale 10/25/2006
-----------

The site also has a picture of the cover. Howard the Duck? Gee wiz. :rolleyes:

xman25

Yeah, I saw that, too. I'm not interested in any of those characters, so I'll pass. Though, the thing with Howard does seem intriguing.

Venom, yay. Except it's not Eddie Brock and I have no idea what's been up with him for years.

okay someone fill me in on that duck, like uh who is it?

http://marvel.com/universe/Howard_the_Duck

He's sort of a cult hit. Like Spider-Girl and Manhunter, he's got a following.

Civil War #4 preview! I won't post the images just incase people wanna avoid spoilers, but man this issue looking to be sweet!

Source: http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/C...lWar04Pre.html

I've seen this preview and it adds fuel to the fire that this Thor isn't the real one.

I hadn't realized people were thinking that this Thor isn't the real one. What makes people think that this might be a fake Thor?

xman25

Cap dies in 4. This is going to be sweet.

EDIT: this is my personal guess based on the solicits and preview.

There are various, circumstantial reasons. When D.B. traveled to Ohio (I think that's right), we didn't actually see him grab the hammer. The fact that he's on the pro-side seems odd, given the character's history. )I'm sure there's more, but I don't remember any more than that.) In this preview, he doesn't talk like he used to and seems to be very bloodthirsty, an unusual characteristic.

Thor died. I'm sure death changes people.

Thor's a god. I'm sure he just feels like putting people in their place. I assume Ragnarok pissed him off JUST A BIT.

He wasn't pissed off when it happened. He seemed rather calm.

Even though this interview is about Spider-Man after 'Civil War' it's still 'Civil War' related. 'Civil War' is mentioned several times. I got this from comicbookresources.com:

SPIDER-MAN'S BACK IN BLACK IN FEBRUARY

by Jonah Weiland, Executive Producer
Posted: September 11, 2006

In February, 2007, following the events of "Civil War," Spider-Man will once again don the black costume beginning with "Amazing Spider-Man" #539. What's this all mean? Does this signify the return of the symbiont? What does this all mean for the rest of the Marvel Univerise? We spoke with editor Axel Alonso for more.


Q) Hey Axel, let's get into it. So, you've got Spider-Man in the black costume again, huh? Give us the low down.

A) In February, Spider-Man will be going back into the black costume. There will be a reason for this and in the post "Civil War" world it will make sense. There are a number of details that we're still working out right now, but we do know this will be the "Back in Black" event, so in all three Spider-Man titles and elsewhere he'll be appearing in the black costume. That will take place February through June. In July, that's when we're teeing up our next event.

Q) So, Peter's back in the black costume. Does this mean the symbiont has returned? Does this mean he's just back in the black costume?

A) You'll have to wait and see. In the post "Civil War" world the black costume makes sense.

Q) And JMS is still on the title at this point, right?

A) Absolutely.

Q) It sounds to me like the black costume is, in many ways, a metaphor for what the Marvel Universe has become following "Civil War."

A) What I'll say is that it's a metaphor for how Spider-Man is feeling.

Q) Wow. OK. A costume change is simply that, but does this have larger implications for the Marvel Universe?

A) Well, I hesitate to use words like larger implications because there are catastrophic things that have happened that involve buildings toppling, and then there is stuff that reflects on character, so it depends on what you mean by that. It's no small decision for Peter to go back into the Black costume - it's reflective of his state of mind. I'm not playing my cards when I tell you that the fact it's in a post-"Civil War" setting is relevant. A lot of things will occur in "Civil War" that affect Spider-Man on a personal basis, so he has good reason to get into this costume, let's put it that way.

Q) I don't want to make this sound like I think Spider-Man/Peter Parker is any sort of wimp, but in many ways the character is one of the more sensitive members of the Marvel Universe, so this all makes a certain amount of sense.

A) Well, the thing about Peter Parker is he's very different from let's say Tony Stark or Steve Rogers. His role in "Civil War" reflects his role in the larger Marvel Universe. This is a guy who crashes on his Aunt's couch - he doesn't own a mansion and he didn't fight in World War II. In that light, if you take a look at something like "Civil War," Steve Rogers and Tony Stark come to this as full-formed adults with very firm convictions in what they believe in. Peter is like the rest of us - kind of always in a search to find himself. Of course, there are basic values that he has and we all know what those are. I think of him as being sort of the heart of the Marvel Universe - he's the guy who makes mistakes, corrects those mistakes and tries to get better.

Q) Does this also signify a change in the way Spider-Man/Peter Parker will act in the Marvel Universe?

A) To a degree, yes, but it's also reflective of what he's gone through and what's acted upon him. Again, I have to be a little bit cryptic because there are story reasons why he's going into the black costume and, again, it's reflective of his state of mind and his reality.

Q) One thing comic fans always wonder about are the long term affects of any sort of major change to a character. Here we're potentially seeing a new side of Peter Parker/Spider-Man. How will this play out for Peter?

A) Let's just say it is part of the long-term ramifications of what he's been through. All due respect, sometimes it's hard to answer these questions because it's almost like people want to know if this or that will have long and final earth shattering ramifications or something. Again, it all comes down to how you look at it. Some of the best stories are the more subtle ones. The death of one's parent, for instance, is that earth shattering and does it have long term ramifications? Yeah, on one level it absolutely does, but on another level it's a small personal story and then someone makes peace with that and moves on. So, in that light, we're trying to look at him as being a real character who's been through a real experience in "Civil War" and a real experience that has been affected by what he's seen happen, how he's participated in it, who wins and if in fact they really win, who looses and if in fact they really lost and who's still around when the smoke clears. All of these things are relevant. So, yeah, in one sense you could say it'll have long term ramifications. Will he stay in the black tights forever? I don't think it's any sort of spoiler when I say odds are you'll see him in the red and blue again. Again, the question is what does it mean to him at this moment, why is it crucial, why is it important and what does it reflect?

Q) Now, obviously this storyline isn't just about a guy in a black costume. What can you say about what you'll be exploring in this storyline?

A) Again I have to be cryptic, but we know that Peter will be put through the ringer physically and emotionally. When the smoke clears he'll have to look at himself in the mirror and look around to see who's still standing. His relationships with a number of people will be profoundly changed. Again, even subtracting Spider-Man out of the equation, the relationship between Captain American and Iron Man is changed. For the long term? Yes. Forever? We'll find out. Likewise with Peter.

We prefer to look at these characters as being characters and not icons. They're going to bounce back from everything until we decide we're willing to kill them, and sometimes even then! [laughs] At the end of the day, what you're looking at is that the most important thing here is in February Peter will exist in a world in which the "Civil War" has been resolved and now he has to get on with the hard task of living.

Q) Now, the next Spider-Man film features Peter in the black costume. Was the impetus for moving Spidey into the black costume based solely on the film?

A) For the most cynical fans out there who'll say Marvel wants Spider-Man in the black costume because of the movie, they're only 10% right. The beauty is we knew 16 months ago as we were planning out the thrust of "Civil War" and beyond, how all of this laid out beautifully for us to move into the future. So, the thing is the timing is perfect. We understand the motivations behind the change. The same as when we were planning "Civil War" and people would guess that maybe Cap would be the pro-registration guy and some complained that he would be, but then they saw how it was rendered and why he was motivated to do what he did. That's what's driving us right now. Character motivations and how they react to what's going on around them.

Q) So, you're saying that it's mostly a lucky bit of synergy that the black costume plays well into your plans, while at the same time the film makers are making this change as well?

A) Right. We didn't have to reach for reasons to put him in the black costume.
--------------
The interview also has a picture of the cover art to 'Amazing Spider-Man' #539

xman25

It won't be the symbiote. It'll be Black Cat's costume, worn for the same reason Superman makes his symbol red and black instead of red and yellow. And the fact that Alonso is talking about this event leading to another event clearly shows that Marvel has learned nothing.

I'd say it reminds me more about Sipder-Woman's costume. Maybe she dies when the SHIELD squad intercepts the Shroud and her in Ms Marvel 06...

She doesn't,It she seem like she ditchs America entirely and is joining the new Alpha Flight(Omega Flight)

http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/7474/omgftfh4.jpg
from what the preview pic indicates

I don't like the idea of Cap going to Canada, nor do I like that the artist is clearly ignoring Beta Ray's mini-series. I do like that that appears to be Talisman.

this is what i wrote in irc

[22:13] > ohoho so spiderman goes back to the black suit
[22:14] > peter will probably kill stark
[22:14] > and feel sad sad sad
[22:14] > and the symbiote has always left a piece of him in him
[22:14] > and it will use that sadness and rage to grow!

lol who knows, like the cover though :)

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? What, should they make every new arc pretend that the previous one didn't happen or something?

Double Post:
There goes my theory that Cap dies during Civil War. Also, I like how he doesn't appear to be the leader of that team.

No. They just need to stop doing a Spider-Man event once every year.

It's not an event, it's a story arc. Oh wait, events and story arcs are the same thing.

That's not what I meant at all. And, yes, in a sense it's an event. Him returning to his black costume is an important event. It'll cause questions and fan outcry (mainly positive). The fact that Peter's being introspective, which is why he dawns the suit, makes it a story.

So you're saying that they should write useless stories with a great character and waste his potential by making nothing meaningful happen? Ya, a year's worth of him catching random criminals is a great idea.

I'm saying they revert him back to the Spidey I liked, I suppose. Red and blue. No new powers. Secret identity. Not constantly second-guessing himself (which is what this sounds like this is going to be). You need to stop exaggerating my statements.

You need to stop wanting Marvel to re-write a character's history just to please you.

Re-write their history? I suppose you could call it that. I mainly just want them to get back to telling good stories without changing the powers, history, or dynamic of the main character(s). And maybe my assumptions about this new arc will be proven false when it comes out. I've really no way to know.

Minor comment on the Alpha Flight image:

Isn't that supposed to be US Agent, not Captain America?

well you know, after this many years it's getting kinda hard to tell a good story without like doing something new :/, which this whole civil war thing is doing, brining new juice to the juicer.

...

QFT.

They've done just about everything they could with Spidey prior to the unveiling of his SI. Now there are a TON of new stories that they can tell because of that. It's going to be exciting.

Also - the Omega Flight guy is US Agent? Damn. I thought that might be the case on the train coming home today. Hmm, if it is, then my theory of Cap dying in CW 4 might still prove to be true. Awesome.

You can't kill Captain America, man. He's an American icon! That's crazy talk. That's like DC killing Superman!

... wait.

And don't forget, nobody really DIES in comic books. They just disappear for a few years before the writers come up with an excuse to bring them back so that they can increase sales.

Except for Thunderbird, Magik, important origin characters, Captain Marvel I, Toro, and various villains. Hmm, DC seems to lack people in this category...

Give it time Acro, those guys will all come back. I mean, look, they said that Bucky, Uncle Ben and Jason Todd would never come back. Bucky came back as an angsty soldier, I heard that Ben was brought back in a horrible fashion and Jason Todd got turned into an Octopus monster that eats villains!

Ben hasn't really ever been brought back, though there is an alternate reality one apparently running around in Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man and he was briefly brought to the future to converse with Peter just before he died.

I'm thinking this should be moved to the "Everything Else" thread.

I thought they hadn't killed him off yet in FNSM. If I remember correctly

The second Ben I was referencing was in the Happy Birthday storyline in Amazing.

Just went through the Civil-War Files. Stark lists The Sentry as confirmed pro-reg. Anyone else know anything?? If its true then logically, with Sentry's powers, the War is already over for Cap and his supporters. Unless of course Marvel brings in Cosmic entities (already hinted with The Grandmaster's introduction)... But, in my opinion, that would be kind of stupid in an story-line like Civil War...

What's Thor listed as? He's one of the few Marvel people that would be able to stand up to the Sentry.

Thor is listed as "Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D."

I can't remember anything from the books about Thor being on SHEILD's side? First you see him grabbing his hammer (in FF 538), and the next he's fighting anti-reg heroes (Civil War 3). What happened, Marvel?

also they made a new checklist for the Civil War books:

http://www.opimage.co.uk/u/daikon/th...0Checklist.jpg

In Civil War #3, Hill mentions Codename: Lightning, an agent, twice. A few panels after the second reference, Thor appears. Coincidence?

Don't think so...

If Thor's confirmed as confirmed Pro-reg, (although like Hercules, l can't see how that can actually happen - considering he is a God, I thought he'd stay away like Namor) it would explain the rumors of Beta Ray joining up with Cap. But then since these happen post-Ragnarok, Thor is now blessed with the OdinForce. So that effectively means the Anti reg heroes actually have to face both Thor with the Odinforce and The Sentry... Won't be much of a battle unless Marvel introduces a deus ex machina...

What's next: Surfer? Thanos? Celestials? :biggrin:

Thor doesn't have the Odinforce anymore, as near as I can tell. He neither looks as he did with it, nor is he blind anymore.

No, Thanos is busy helping the Annihilation wave.

There seems to be a gap between the FF issue and his sudden appearance in CW#3... HURM.

They'll probably introduce Hawkeye and the pro-reg heroes will all die from anaphylactic shock.

Agreed. But how will they just make Ragnarok disappear? Coz Thor's hammer came to earth because of Ragnarok. I distinctly remember Doom saying in hell ...Ragnarok...The death of the Nordic Gods... along with a editor's note that said As seen in Thor 80-85, just in case you thought that we were making this stuff up... (FF #537)

I don't believe they will ignore Ragnarok. In fact, we may get more explanation once Thor's mag returns (as written by JMS). As of now, though, his character and actions seem a bit considering how he was at the end of Ragnarok. Maybe he has already recreated Asgard and its champions, only coming to Earth to retreive his hammer. There are too many questions. Hopefully, Millar will provide some answers.

A Civil War article from newsrama.com:


CRISTOS GAGE ON CASUALTIES OF WAR: IRON MAN/CAPTAIN AMERICA

As the Civil War rages on in the Marvel Universe, the smaller stories are getting their chance to be heard as well. As previously announced, Marvel will be releasing a series of specials during the (albeit extended) Civil War run, that will focus on characters, and otherwise expand elements from the main miniseries.

Case in point, December’s Casualties of War: Iron Man/Captain America, written by Cristos Gage. It’s the writer’s latest in a growing collection of Marvel work, and though he’s working in Captain America’s universe, writing the imminent Union Jack miniseries, Gage credits his relationship with editor Andy Schmidt for landing him the gig.

“When it became clear that Civil War was going to have to be delayed, Marvel saw the opportunity to flesh out the story with some specials,” Gage said. “The Iron Man/Cap Special would be edited by Andy. He needed a writer who was both fast (given the short notice) and knowledgeable about the history of Captain America and Iron Man. He knew I was fast because I routinely get my scripts in ahead of deadline, and he'd liked my work on Union Jack, which showed some familiarity with Cap history, so he called me up and asked what I thought of Cap and Iron Man's respective positions in Civil War. I said, ‘Well, it makes perfect sense to me, because in issue X, such-and-such happened, and we know Iron Man would feel this way because of Y,’ and I rattled off a whole bunch of incidents from both their titles going back to the Silver Age. I think that confirmed two things - that I had the job, and that my geekiness knows no bounds.”

As for where the project came from – Gage freely admits that the one-shot was something that Marvel offered him, but in regards to its true origin?

“This was a case of Marvel listening to the fans and responding,” Gage explained. There had been readers asking for clarification about why Cap and Iron Man have taken the stances they have, what makes them feel so strongly about it, and why two men who have been allies for so long would let things get to this point without finding a way to work it out. The sheer breakneck pace of Civil War has precluded an in-depth examination of these issues, so I was asked to come up with a story that would clarify matters.

“Obviously, I had to do it without messing up the larger storyline that had already been planned out, but aside from that I wasn't told ‘this is off limits.’ It was a matter of finding the right kind of story. I thought about it and said to Andy, ‘You know the diner scene from Heat?’ He replied, ‘You did not just ask me if I know the diner scene from Heat,’ like I'd just inquired if he knew who Jack Kirby was or something similarly insulting. That started the ball rolling.”

As that ball rolled, Gage came up with something that wasn’t shown in the main miniseries, something that some readers may see as a missing piece. “It's about Cap and Iron Man's secret meeting in the midst of Civil War, in the ruins of Avengers Mansion, under a flag of truce to see if they can work things out man to man,” Gage said. “If you'll recall Civil War #1, they've never really spoken to each other about this - while Iron Man was addressing the gathered heroes, Cap was on the Helicarrier fighting his way through an army of SHIELD agents. So this is the first time since it all started that they've met one on one, out of respect for their many years as friends and allies, to talk it out. We'll reference incidents from Marvel history to show why each man feels as strongly as he does, and each will have to defend his position as he tries to convince the other to rethink his own. But this isn't Meet the Press…given what's happened already, there's the constant and very real threat that it will come to blows. I don't want to give away too much, but whatever happens, readers should come away with a clearer view of why Captain America and Iron Man feel the way they do, and why the situation has reached the point it has.”

Joining Gage on the one-shot is artist Jeremy (Leading Man, Battle Hymn) Haun, and cover-artist Jimmy Cheung.

“Jeremy’s got a great feel for both Cap and Iron Man; I think anyone who isn't familiar with his stuff will really be impressed,” Gage said. His style is perfect for the book - he's great at conveying emotion, which we absolutely needed, but at the same time his heroes are iconic looking, which is key because he's being asked to draw some classic scenes from Marvel's past…which would intimidate some folks - like me, if I could draw, but just fills Jeremy with enthusiasm. He's really pumped for this, and it shows in the work. And as for that cover…need I say more? He's the man. Jimmy’s drawn both Cap and Iron Man before and is right up there with any of the greats who have rendered them over the years. I'll tell you what, getting to write such a momentous story in the history of two of my favorite childhood characters would be thrilling enough, but every time I look at these guys' art, it's official: I am in fanboy heaven.”

Having had to stick himself into the headspace of the two opposing sides’ biggest proponents, what side does Gage himself come down on in regards to Super Hero Registration?

“I'm kind of on the fence,” the writer confessed. “I think it was Dan Slott who said this, and I agree: as a Marvel Comics fan, I'm opposed to the Registration Act, but if I actually had to live in the Marvel Universe, I'd be for it. I definitely see both sides. Captain America is my favorite Marvel hero, so if anything, I've grown more sympathetic to Iron Man's position because, while my knee-jerk reaction is with Cap, I've had to really think about exactly where Tony's coming from, and it makes a lot of sense. I don't think he's power-hungry or unfeeling or some of the other things I've seen said online. Sure, he's got his issues, but so does Cap, and I think they're both trying to do what they believe is best. If I only accomplish one thing with this story, I'd like for it to be that the people saying ‘Iron Man's a jerk’ - and worse - come away with an understanding of why he's doing this. Not that they necessarily agree with or endorse his position, but that they understand it…because I definitely do.”

Gage admitted that, in being a fan of the Captain America character, it was at times, something of a struggle to believably get Iron Man’s point across, though he feels he did get it, in the end.

“In writing both characters, I always tried to put myself in their shoes,” Gage said. “In rewrites, I'd go through the script from Iron Man's perspective, then from Cap's, then back again. I never wanted to favor one character or, worse yet, force my own views on the story. I wanted everything to come out of who these men have been established as being over 40 - or, in Cap's case, 65 - years of history. To shoehorn in my own agenda, whether it be ‘I'm liberal,’ ‘I'm conservative,’ or ‘I always wanted to write Cap and Iron Man breakdance-fighting,’ would be horrible. When I was writing the Deadshot miniseries for DC, at least one reader posted a message online making it clear he believed - without attacking me for it or anything - that I was a right-wing gun enthusiast, when in fact I've never fired anything higher caliber than a BB. I loved that, because it meant the character was coming through, not the writer.”

Back to speaking as a fan, how does Gage see the relationship between the two characters at the end of Civil War? Well, though a kiss and make-up ending isn’t in the cards for anyone, Gage said he hopes that a reconciliation between the two heroes is a possiblility, at least at some point in the future.

“It's not easy seeing them at odds; it's like your parents fighting, you know? The whole time I was working on the story, part of me kept wanting to write the scene where they resolve everything, hug it out, and say ‘Come on, old buddy, let's grab a root beer and go fight the Absorbing Man.’ The way superhero conflicts used to be worked out in the old days: meet, fight, team up, we're cool. But life isn't that simple, and neither is Civil War. I suspect it's going to take more than an appearance on the Dr. Phil show to get past this.”
-----------------

xman25

Marvel made a Civil War trailer, it's pretty cool.

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.638

Makes me wonder if they're gonna consider making the whole series into a digital comic and put it on a medium of sorts.

Can somebody upload Civil War #4 as soon as they download? In a .zip containing the image files if possible as I'll be at school for the majority of the day and I won't have access to CDisplay. I think that they have IRfanviewer installed, but I don't know if that can open .cbz or .cbr.

Thanks.

Is anybody else REALLY anticipating this?

I am.

SO FUCKING LATE MARVEL. WTF.

A review of Civil War #4 from comicbookresources.com. It's spoiler free:

Tuesday September 19, 2006

CIVIL WAR #4 ADVANCE REVIEW

It's getting tougher and tougher to write these previews without spoilers. The good news is that the big shocking surprises in this issue haven't been well spoiled by leading covers and tie-in issues, like they were with the grand Spidey unmasking in the second issue. There are a few moments in this book that came out of left field in a good way for me.

Basically, Thor is back and he's pissed. Why? How? Well, you'll have to read the book, but Mark Millar does provide a satisfactory and somewhat scary answer to both questions, while leading the reader in the direction that the next events might follow. The big fight in the beginning of this issue truly feels monumental and epic, even if it doesn't last as long as you might think. There are real consequences from this Big Superhero Fight scene, which is definitely nice to see.

Also nice to see are all the pieces of the puzzle coming together. Unlike with previous issues, I don't think you need to read the tie-in issues to get what's going on here. I think the developments in this plot have been set up nicely from within the three previous issues. Again, I don't want to spoil you on the developments or even lead you in their direction. For now, you'll just have to take my word that they're consistent with the series so far, and pay off on some previous scenes in a satisfying way.

There is a dramatic shift to the status quo of one corner of the Marvel Universe in this book, but I have a hard time buying into it completely. It's the kind of thing that can be reversed in a heartbeat -- or, at least, in one well-written issue of the main Marvel title. Peter Parker taking off the mask would require a cosmic event or a deus ex machina to reverse. This particular event would not require nearly as much work to undo.

Steve McNiven's artwork is brilliant in this issue. I'm not kidding here -- there's a range of storytelling talent on display here in one single issue that's not often seen in a typical superhero comic. He draws the heck out of the big battle scene complete with wide panels, bloodied superheroes, and a downpour of rain. But he excels in the moments afterwards, where characters often look confused, frightened, or quietly scary. The illustrations do as much to tell the story as Millar's word balloons. The body language of these characters looks unsure, not typically superheroic. There's a fair bit of moping happening in the issue, but it's well-deserved and contemplative.

Morry Hollowell's coloring is vibrant throughout the book, and I just hope it translates well into the printed page. The PDF preview I have is bright and energetic and detailed. Paper usually soaks up too much of it to convey the same feel, but I'll cross my fingers on this one.

While I don't think this particular issue will have the large outcry and conversational quotient that the second one did, I think there's enough in here to keep fans buzzing. I think there might even be a political aspect that some will gripe about. And I'm very curious to see some of the fallout from this book in a couple of the other main Marvel Universe series. The final few pages should result in major status quo changes in two different series, in particular.

I had a shaky moment with the series last issue, but I'm back on board again with this one.
--------------

xman25

Ah, Lying in the Gutters.

Here are some Civil War #4 previews (with some repeat):
http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/C...lWar04Pre.html
http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=40275

Wow. Thor is badass in those previews. This issue is going to be crazy.

The only thing I can't explain is why he doesn't seem to have pupils.

Wow. Civil War #4. Wow.

Mr. Fantastic and Iron Man are crazy. They are actually making a superhero clone army to fight against Cap and co. WTF. Mad props to Sue for protecting the ressistance and leaving the pro side.

Also, I was very disappointed with the choice of character to kill. I barely know anything about this guy. I think that they should have killed off somebody else.

I'm predicting that Spidey is switching sides in the next issue.

Wolverine is turning into crap. "Oh shit, some corporation was working behind the scenes to make the incident happen." I totally agree with the IGN reviewer - the social commentary is nice, but it also takes away from the whole event.

What day is CW5 scheduled for? I'm already counting the days - this is the best story ever told in comic book format. It needs to be made into a movie or two.

I agree, when he was killed i was like ::sigh::. Like who cares, I didnt even know who he was until 3-4 months ago. Kill some major guy because death in comic world only lasts like a year or two before someone tries to resurect you again and the world goes apeshit :D.

CW4 - ...... I seriously don't know what to write. I'm still kind of dumb-struck, and pissed cause it isn't October yet, and I can't get CW5... The only person (real) I can blame right now is Reed Richards. Anyone else feel that the encounter between Stark and the Sharpe lady was kinda touching?

It was kind of touching, but kind of "eh." Obviously Mrs Sharpe wants Tony to feel good about what she's doing because she's the one (on top of Stamford) that kind of prompted Tony to do it.

Or is she?

I admit I didn't follow Marvel stuff prior to Civil War so I don't really know what's up with Thor and all, but what the heck? Keeping hair? That's some awfully keen foresight. I can't wait til the next issue -- hope Spider-man hurries up and switches sides.

Also, Reed is a dick (and c0xblocked)

I think we can all figure out who the man in the ski mask is. Issue #4 shows how desperate the pro-reg people are: cloning Thor and having all those villians working for them. I'm kind of split about whose side I'm on. I understand both sides of the argument.

xman25

Man in the ski mask???

Yes, man in the ski mask. Top panel on the page where Goliath's funeral begins and the bottom panel of the page before it. It's in the book. Looking at the art again, I don't think it's who I originally thought it was. Different eye color.

xman25

I'm kinda confused about something. If you clone a God, would it be the real thing? I mean no one but Thor was supposed to have been able to lift that Hammer, so how come his clone was able to do just that?

Who did you think it was, xman? Cuz I'll just up and admit I'm confused.

I'm pretty sure that was a fake hammer. Isn't there a panel where they show some wires in it?

It's probably a fake hammer, since another "Thor" got the hammer from the FF book a while back.

Who the heck is the man in the ski mask?

I originally thought that the guy in the ski mask was Spider-Man, but the two have different eye color.

xman25

Double Post:
From newsrama.com. An interview with Joe Quesada, Editor-in-Chief of Marvel:

This week after a few "very special editions" in a row, we're back to a more familiar format. We ask Joe Quesada about Civil War and try to pry as much new info out of him, and he gives in here and refuses our advances there...
Newsarama: Joe, starting off with some Civil War questions that aren’t about scheduling in a month - it's not as if you're living in an ivory tower up there…what's your take on the reactions to issue #4? Pretty much as expected or are there responses and reactions that have surprised you?

Joe Quesada: Was there a reaction to Civil War #4? Did that finally come out? [laughs] Man, I must have missed that one.

In all seriousness, it was all very expected and we're not done yet. To be honest, I would have been devastated if we hadn't have gotten this reaction. This is what Civil War is all about, it's breaking some rules and it's got surprises at every turn. It also looks awful pretty.

NRAMA: Interestingly, the mainstream press picked up on Sue leaving Reed. Why do you think that hooked their interest, rather than, say, the hero killing hero as seen in the battle?

JQ: Because to the world outside of comics, unless the hero is one of the big icons, Spider-Man, Superman, etc. no one really cares. No one on the “street” knows who Goliath is. On the flip side of that, the FF, even before the movie had a decent level of recognition within the mainstream world and the book has always revolved around the idea of family. What's happening in Civil War and in FF proper strikes at the core of that idea and rips it apart, it's a very digestible event for the mainstream news to report. In other words, people outside of comics “get it.”

I also think it's just another in the many things about Civil War that hit, especially we Americans, between the eyes. Civil War is playing to the idea of polarization within the Marvel Universe, fandom, and our world. It reflects a very key component of what is happening in America today and I believe that that is one of the keys of its success. We've all been hearing stories about how politics has been tearing family and friends apart in this very partisan climate that has seemed to have developed over a very short period of time, so I believe that much of that has played into it.

Ten years ago, the idea of a couple splitting up because of varying political beliefs was so much more foreign than it is today, today, not so much. Reed and Sue are the marital icons of the world of comics, so their split is something that the news and everyone in general will be interested in.

NRAMA: We spoke with Tom [Brevoort] and Mark [Millar] about this earlier, but with the Pro-Registration side as it’s shown, can you honestly say they're still being shown in an even-handed manner? After all, Cap may have thrown the first punch, but Tony's side killed someone, is cloning an army, and sticking things in Clor's ear (that's what we call cloned Thor around here)…

That said - can you see the point of view of fans who say that you're only presenting Cap in a sympathetic light?

JQ: We are only on issue #4; can we just let the story play itself out? That said, I don't know if you can convince someone about one thing or another once they have their hearts set on something. I personally believe that many people were inclined to root for

Cap at the very onset as he is clearly the underdog and fighting against the big machine that is Tony, his troops and the government. Like so many things in life that affect people at their most base emotional levels, it would take a pretty harsh action to have them change their minds otherwise. But, with that in mind, do you think for a second that we didn't know where people were going to be instantly leaning?

Even before the first page of Civil War was read, we were 100% sure of who fandom was going to be rooting for, but that's pretty true of any story. What's key here is that that is how great writers construct their stories and they use those tools and manipulation of a reader's emotions in order to keep them guessing and surprised with how things turn out. Sometimes the butler has done it, sometimes not.

NRAMA: If you can, explain the “new” Thunderbolts a little…less quasi heroes acting on the fringes and more…Dirty Dozen?

JQ: You could say that, but it may be a bit more intense than that, actually I know it will be. I think when you hear what's happening to the book and the creative team involved, the boards will be alight with chatter and the Internet will have been shatter yet again. Come on, by this point you know we can do it [laughs]!

NRAMA: So - not to wade fully back into the horse guts of the dead one that's been beaten into paste…but this issue was late in arriving. Sales wise, have you seen an effect of it being late? Are the numbers down from #3? Or the velocity of re-orders decreased?

JQ: [Laughs] This is going to blow you away, but orders keep going up! They keep going on and not just on the main title, but on the tie-ins as well. Sales on issue #4 were higher than issue #3!

Also, if anything, we were very fortunate in that the delays helped reorder activity. We sent more issues back to press between 3 and 4 than we have all series so far, including a back to press on the monster-selling first issue.

So, without further or do, gentlemen and ladies start your engines, let the speculation and conspiracy theories begin. I mean that is what happens on the Internet, right?

NRAMA: Okay – let’s get to reader questions…a few more Civil War-related topics, and then on to a potpourri…

JQ: Sure, shoot!

NRAMA: So far we have only seen Iron Fist posing as Daredevil in Civil War. Will we get to see Matt Murdock in the story time soon?

JQ: I know it sounds cliché, but wait and see. Currently as all readers and lovers of Daredevil are aware, Matt is out of the country at the moment, so it's a bit tough for him to be a part of the action, but I'm sure he's there in spirit. That's the beauty of Civil War and the Marvel Universe as it stands right now, you have no idea what's going to happen next!

NRAMA: I was surprised to learn that Howard the Duck is making an appearance in the Civil War: Choosing Sides special. I believe Steve Gerber's Howard the Duck was one of the finest series to ever come out of Marvel. What are the chances of Gerber returning to the character he made famous?

JQ: Nope, currently there are no plans for a Gerber Howard the Duck series.
-----------

This is not the entire interview, just the Civil War related Q&As.

xman25

Does anyone know if Wolverine #42 will be going through a third printing? It saddens me that I couldn't even pick up a copy of the second printing ...

Speaking of reprints/variants, how much are the variants in your area (or are they all the same everywhere)? The Civil War #4 Turner variant goes for $20 at my local comic shop, while the black/white New Avengers #23 variant goes for $10.

My local comic shop sells the variant issues at cover price, at least that's how much he's been selling them to me anyway (heh, I always ask him to put aside one for me). But I know that there a few other shops in town that sell em between $15-$70, depending on their rarity. Eg. the $70 ones would be the sketch cover variants for CW, with the CW Turner variants at about $24-$30.

For anyone who missed and/or likes to collect, from silverbulletcomicbooks.com:

Civil War #3 Goes Back To Press With Thor Returns Variant

Posted: Tuesday, October 3
Posted By: Keith Dallas

In order to keep the hottest series of the year in stock and on shelves for readers, Marvel is going back to press on the red-hot Civil War #3 with a Thor Returns Variant Cover.

The comic event of the decade just gets bigger and better as the long-missing Thor returned... and was shown to be on the side of the Pro-Registration heroes. The Thunder God's return in Civil War #3 is one of the biggest comic moments of 2006, making this issue a must-have.

The reaction to Civil War has been tremendous from the beginning and as this event marches on, it keeps getting better and better.

Civil War keeps gaining momentum so be on the lookout for the 2nd printing of Civil War #3 with the Thor Returns Variant Cover.

CIVIL WAR #3 (OF 7) THOR RETURNS SECOND PRINTING VARIANT (AUG068071)
Written by MARK MILLAR
Pencils & Cover by STEVE MCNIVEN
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$2.99
FOC - 10/19, On-Sale - 11/8/2006
---------

xman25

Thor's returned? Since when? Oh, he means the guy the Pro-side is trying to pass for Thor. That's hardy what he says.

Sweet, thanks for the info! Definitely another cover to pick up.

It's spoiler proof, so that's a good thing, even though it's not true. Last thing they want is spoil a piece of the story on their site.

People, check this out:
http://rapidshare.de/files/35683450/...arody.cbr.html

I'm not giving any description coz I'm still aching in the sides from too much laughing... Seriously, after the taut edge CW had most of us on, this one was a unexpected (not to mention outrageously funny) break... :biggrin:

From silverbulletcomicbooks.com:

Civil War Meets "Planet Hulk" In Incredible Hulk #100

Posted: Monday, October 9
Posted By: Keith Dallas

Civil War is going to get a taste of the incredible in the pages of Incredible Hulk #100 as the seeds are planted for next year's epic World War Hulk. The milestone centennial issue of Incredible Hulk will feature a back-up story penned by Greg Pak with pencils by Gary Frank bringing to readers a very important Civil War story that examines whether the Illuminati was justified in banishing the Hulk into space. Plus, learn more about the Thor clone that debuted in Civil War #3 and killed Goliath in Civil War #4.

Not only will this Hulk-sized issue contain an important Civil War back-up story and reprints of the Incredible Hulk #3, #143, and #152, but this issue continues the instant-classic "Planet Hulk" story as the next chapter, "Planet Hulk: Allegiance," begins.

Like the "Road to Civil War" issues, which sold out quickly and had multiple reprintings, Incredible Hulk #100 is sure to be a red-hot issue as the road to next year's big event, World War Hulk, begins here!

Will the Hulk save Sakaar from the planet's greatest enemies or will he fulfill the prophecy of the Sakkarson and be revealed as the Worldbreaker? It's an all-out smash-fest as the Hulk and Caiera the Oldstrong lead their warriors against the horrifying Spikes. And amidst the battle, Miek undergoes a shocking development.

There are 100 reasons not to miss Incredible Hulk #100: Civil War, "Planet Hulk," Greg Pak, the return of Carlo Pagulayan, Gary Frank penciling Hulk again, classic Hulk stories, and the list goes on.
--------------
The issue is scheduled to come out November 1 of this year. I can't wait for the Hulk to come back. You know he is going to give the Illuminati a lot of shit. The site has scans of some of the pages from the issue. I've included one scan which ties in to Civil War, so I guess the 'spoiler warning' can apply to it.

xman25

I bet Miek has a sex change. :P

Also, that Civil War page is so useless. It's just Clor on a table.

I finally got around to reading this issue. And I must say it's the worst comic I've read since Infinite Crisis (pick a part). The characterization issues, the sonic device use in the battle, the clichéd explosion of gas truck hitting something, the fact that three of the smartest minds in Marvel cannot control their creation and can't shrink Goliath, and the lack of understanding of where these villains came from are all factors as to why I don't like this issue. And since the story probably won't end with issue #7 anyway, I'm not sure it's worth it to continue reading.

From newsarama.com:

PREVIEWING TURNER'S COVER TO CIVIL WAR #5
From Marvel

Michael Turner’s Variant for Civil War #5 has been revealed as the next issue of Civil War gets closer and closer.

Civil War #5 is fast approaching and is on track for its on-sale date of November 15th, when the comic world is sure to be rocked by the next important chapter in this universe-changing event.

The Punisher enters the war in Civil War #5, but whose side is Frank Castle on? Is he even on anybody’s side? The Punisher always works alone, but will a war among super-heroes cause him to rethink his position as the lone wolf?

Plus, the villains of the Marvel Universe make their presence known and change the balance of power in the war. But who or what are they targeting?
---------------

I really like the variant cover that Turner did. I hope I have an extra $15 for the variant. $15 is what the store I go to charges for the non-sketch variants to the main Cival War issues. I think they charge $75 for the sketch variants. Newsarama included a picture of Turner's variant to Cival War #5.

xman25

WTF. That doesn't make any sense. Why are the variants so much?

Supply and demand.

xman25

Also because an order quota must be met to get certain variants. I think it was 75 copies for 1 sketch variant and 18 or 24 copies for the Turner variant.

Isn't issue #5 when they make the variants normal priced and offer a 50/50 split?

A thing writen about Civil War in the forums at Newsarama.com:

JOURNEY INTO COMICS: CIVIL WONDERINGS
by Michael San Giacomo

Speaking of Marvel’s Civil War, (and who isn’t?) I can’t wait to see how writer Mark Millar and artist Steve McNiven manage to end this series has been tearing the heart out of the Marvel Universe most of the year.

The superhero community is split in two. Iron Man and Reed Richards lead the pro registration faction while Captain America leads the freedom fighters.

Issue four was the turning point when one of Cap’s crew is killed in a battle. Okay, it was Black Goliath, or Giant-Man, or whatever Bill Foster was calling himself these days, not exactly a name player.

But he was one of Hank Pym’s best friends, as Hank himself pointed out. So how much longer will Hank Pym (Yellowjacket, Giant-Man or whatever he’s calling himself these days) stick with Iron Man?

And isn’t this whole thing getting a little sick?

When it’s all over, I wonder how any of these guys ever trust each other again?

Is it possible that the future of Marvel superheroes will truly be changed forever? Will no one ever trust Iron Man and Reed again? I mean, how could they?

Don’t I ask a lot of questions for a guy from Cleveland?

The only out I can see to get things back to where they were is either by mind control (which is certainly possible) or some larger scheme. Is everyone who they say they are - not just the heroes but those who are motivating the activity as well? After all, it doesn't take too much of a criminal mind to realize that an event like what was shown in Civil War #1, well executed, could turn public opinion against the good guys.

So gang, if - and still, it’s a big if - someone is doing the deed, who go you think is pulling the mental strings?

1/ Red Skull

2/ Dr. Faustus (We’ve seen these two in the shadows, but they could be red herrings.)

3/ Hate Monger

4/ Dr. Psycho

5/ Dr. Doom (suspiciously absent)

6/ Puppet Master

7/ The Mad Thinker

8/ Professor Xavier

9/ Emma Frost

10/ Maximus the Mad

11/ Scarlet Witch

12/ Purple Man

13/ Loki

14/ Your choice here.
----------

xman25

Skrulls. My theory is that a hidden armada of Skrulls are behind these events.

Everyone knows it's the Smurfs.

spider man revealing his identity though, the look on Jonah's face was priceless

From silverbulletcomicbooks.com:

Turner and Turnbull See Black Panther Enter Civil War

Posted: Tuesday, October 24
Posted By: Keith Dallas
Print This Item

A rising superstar in his own right will be taking over penciling duties for this arc of Black Panther as Aspen artist Koi Turnbull brings his dynamic pencils to the King of Wakanda.

The honeymoon is over. The diplomatic tour is almost at its end and now it is time for T’Challa and Ororo to go visit the last stop of their tour: the United States. Going back to family and friends wouldn’t be so hard if the superhero community wasn’t in the middle of a war, but Storm and Black Panther have no other choice. They’ve got to make a stand.

Writer Reginald Hudlin’s latest story arc will have Storm and Black Panther in the midst of a battle they wish they could avoid. Both sides are looking to boost their numbers, but which side will this power couple ultimately join? Find out as Civil War continues in Black Panther #23.

BLACK PANTHER #23 (OCT062147)
Written by REGINALD HUDLIN
Penciled by KOI TURNBULL
Cover by MICHAEL TURNER
32 PGS./Rated T+ ...$2.99
On-Sale – 12/27/2006
-----------
xman25

From silverbulletcomicbooks.com:

CIVIL WAR: Choosing Sides Sells Out, More Specials on the Way!

Posted: Tuesday, November 14
Posted By: Keith Dallas
Print This Item

The red-hot one-shot that gave first looks at books like the all-new, all deadly Thunderbolts; Omega Flight; and Iron Fist; as well as providing a glipse at where Ant-Man and even Howard the Duck stand on Civil War has sold out. CIVIL WAR: CHOOSING SIDES featured an all-star creative team and proved to be a smash hit with both retailers and fans alike!

A late addition to the Civil War checklist, CHOOSING SIDES is just one of four new specials designed to enrich the Civil War epic unfolding throughout the Marvel Universe. Given the rapid sell-out of this special, retailers are urged to check their orders on the following upcoming one-shots: CIVIL WAR: WAR CRIMES, in which the Kingpin of crime enters the War; WINTER SOLDIER: WINTER KILLS, which finds the Winter Soldier facing off with both the Young Avengers and his former team mates the Invaders; and IRON MAN/CAPTAIN AMERICA: CASUALTIES OF WAR, where a last ditch effort made by the leaders of Civil War to put an end to the War could lead to making matters far worse!

As Civil War continues to tear apart the Marvel Universe, and with promises of long-reaching ramifications by the stories end, fans are encouraged to strap in for the wild ride the final months will prove to be!

Despite requests from retailers and fans for a second printing, no decision has been made at this time. Although CIVIL WAR: CHOOSING SIDES has sold out at Diamond, there may be some copies available at retailers across the country.

WINTER SOLDIER: WINTER KILLS ONE-SHOT (OCT062149)
Written by ED BRUBAKER
Penciled by LEE WEEKS
Cover by STEVE EPTING
48 PGS./Rated T+ ...$3.99
FOC – 11/21, On-Sale – 12/13/2006

IRON MAN/CAPTAIN AMERICA: CASUALTIES OF WAR ONE SHOT (OCT062158)
Written by CHRISTOS GAGE
Penciled by JEREMY HAUN
Cover by JIM CHEUNG 50/50 Cover Split
48 PGS./Rated A ...$3.99
FOC – 11/21, On-Sale – 12/13/2006

CIVIL WAR: WAR CRIMES ONE-SHOT (OCT062150)
Written By FRANK TIERI
Pencils by STAZ JOHNSON
Cover by SEAN SCOFFIELD
48 PGS/RATED T+... $3.99
FOC – 11/30, On-Sale – 12/20/2006
---------------------------
xman25

Ahh, I gotta watch out for these one shots. I had to look all over town to get "Choosing Sides", as it was sold it at all the places I frequented (and they usually have a big supply when it comes to CW issues). Hopefully this won't be the case for the rest of the one shots.

Oh, and I noticed that the Casualties of War is gonna have 2 different covers. I bet one features Iron Man, while the other is Captain America. I'll definitely be buying both.

EDIT:

Just saw the article, heh, looks like I was right about the covers.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/8453/11zm6.th.jpghttp://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2001/12yc4.th.jpg

From silverbulletcomicbooks.com:

Civil War Makes Maxim’s Most Awesome of 2006 List

Posted: Wednesday, November 15
Posted By: Keith Dallas

Maxim Magazine has released their Most Awesome list of 2006, naming Civil War one of the Most Awesome things of the past year in their December issue.

The shock of Peter Parker revealing his identity to the world, the return of Thor, and the awe-inspiring battles between heroes, including a bloody battle between Captain America and Iron Man, has catapulted Civil War to the top of the most awesome things of 2006.

And the year’s not even over yet! Civil War still has more awesomeness to come before the year ends! Civil War #5 is on-sale now as the all-new, all-deadly Thunderbolts take the fight to the anti-Registration heroes, the Punisher enters the war, and Spider-Man makes another monumental decision that changes his life forever – again!

If you are looking for sheer awesome story-telling, look no further than the biggest event of the year – Civil War!
-----------------
Well, if Maxim likes it, it must be good.....:edgarrock: :rolleyes:

xman25

So Civil War 5 was great. The IGN reviewer needs to chill. They rated the issue a "check it" - i.e. average. That's BS. The complaint is continuity (I didn't really notice any continuity issues, maybe the Johny thing) and that the event was spoiled beforehand. Ya, because you have to read solicits (that's probably where the spoiler was).

Acro-nym: I wish the variants were only $2.99; they're still $19.99 at my local shop.

I need to grab a copy of "Choosing Sides" in the coming week. There were still about six copies left.

RE spoiler

Civil War #5 was better than any previous issue, though that isn't really saying much. I don't know why those two enemies were sent to deal with Spidey. I don't know when Tony reinforced the glass to make it be sturdier than as seen previously. I don't know why Spider-Man calls the clone Thor a cyborg since he clearly isn't. Spidey's motivations are not crystal clear to those who haven't read or heard about events in Amazing Spider-Man. But these are just minor qualms and in no way truly matter to the story itself. I hope the rest of the mini-series is at least as good as this issue. It needs redemption.

I didn't really read comic books before Civil War so continuity isn't really an issue for me. I know the basic backstory to most of people involved but not enough to say what a characetr would and wouldn't do. After this though I'll probabaly follow some of the more itneresting books.

The Runaways(can't wait for Whedon to get started), Cable and Deadpool, Ms Marvel(maybe), The New Avengers(if thats still around post-CW) and maybe Wolverines solo title.

As for the most recent books:

From newsrama.com:

CIVIL WAR #6 GETS A SCHEDULE BUMP

Marvel Comics has confirmed for Newsarama that the on-sale date of Civil War #6 has been moved to January 3rd, two weeks later than the previously announced on-sale date of December 20th, given when Marvel originally informed retailers and readers issues #4-6 of the mega-selling limited series would not ship on their originally solicited dates, along with the necessary delays of Civil War related tie-in titles timed to the release of the main mini-series.

Marvel also informed Newsarama that Civil War #7, originally solicited after the announced delays of issues #4-6 for a 1/17/07 on-sale, will remain on January’s schedule and is now scheduled for a 1/31 release.

Unlike the previous schedule changes, these changes do not affect many Civil War tie-in issues. Only Punisher War Journal #2 will be delayed one week until January 3rd, to time it to the release of Civil War #6.

Amazing Spider-Man #538 and Fantastic Four #543 though announced in Marvel’s August press release about the shipping delays as going on sale 1/24, were actually subsequently originally solicited for a January 31st release, and those dates have not been affected.

As to the question of why this two week delay, according to Marvel Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada,

“The decision to delay Civil War #6 was both a strategic and cautious decision on our part.

“First, let me say that all the materials are still coming in on schedule, but [series artist] Steve [McNiven] has come down with a very severe case of strep throat,” Quesada told Newsarama Thursday morning, which was later confirmed by the artist himself. “However, even with the strep, he's persevered and is still producing a page a day. So, while Steve's impaired health hasn't caused any delays, we felt that with something like strep, it would be best to buffer the schedule a tad in case he wises up and decides to put his head down for a couple of days.

“The second and most important reason we moved the book two weeks (rather than just one) is because we heard from our retail partners that if they had their way, they would preferred that issue #6 ship in January as opposed to the last week of December, which is traditionally not a great time for comics retailers. So, putting all of these things into the mix, we figured two weeks was a smart thing to do.”
--------------------
Can't be too surprised.

xman25

That's too bad. I crave more Civil War. It really is an excellent series. So much better than the latest DC crossover and its tie-ins. Consistent art = :)

Oh wow, I actually didn't even know CW #6 was actually set for Dec. 20th. Oh well, can't wait to read the next issue, I really wanna see how this is gonna wrap.

Second the consistent art! McNiven's work is fantastic! It wouldn't have been the same if they got another artist to cover for the delays.

Hopefully this will be the end of the delays though. At least for the main title I hope.

A look at Civil War #6's cover, the source's article is obivously old. Looks like they're going storm into the Negative Zone Prison (as if anyone didn't see that coming).


http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/9...cov100tli0.jpg

Source: http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=91713

I was looking through the March solicits (at least, I think it was March) and I noticed something.

Any of you have an updated list of all Civil War related books? This one I have doesn't have Black Panther #22 in it, even though #22 has the "Civil War" cover, but it has #23, so maybe one of you guys have an updated list of somesort.

Here you go. It's pretty much complete IMO. And it's easy to keep track of your collection. Just put x-s besides the issues you have...

Cool, thanks man!

So, I heard that post-war the Avengers will be broken into 2 groups? Anyone can confirm this? All I know is the "Mighty Avengers" group, and no idea what the other one is called (if there is another one, that is).

I think they're keeping the "New Avengers" title and starting up a second one, the "Might Avengers". I don't remember the details though.

Rumor is that CW causes the Fantastic Four to split up. The new FF is Torch, Thing, Storm and her hubby, Black Panther.

Unless Sue Storm is a casualty, I really don't see how she's going to split from her brother. It would be an interesting line-up though...

That doesn't sound like they're split up at all, only that Black Panther is included in the roster now.

Man, and post-war there's also World War Hulk! (which some people say is the summer comics event of the year). I'm also waiting for Silent War, but I think Silent War isn't caused by the events that happened in CW.

From comicbookresources.com:

"CIVIL WAR" VS. THE WEST COAST: DIAMOND EXPLAINS DELAY
by Andy Khouri, Staff Writer
Posted: January 3, 2007

Word reached comics fans and retailers on Sunday that Diamond Comics Distributors would be shipping this week surprisingly fewer issues of “Civil War” #6 to west coast stores than were originally ordered, some by as much as 90% less. CBR News contacted Diamond as well as Marvel Comics, and has learned that poor weather conditions shut down crucial highways, consequently preventing numerous books from multiple publishers from reaching the Diamond warehouses that service west coast retailers (as well as stores in Australia and other territories).
Diamond Comics indicated to CBR News that a small quantity of “Civil War” #6 was received in time to be distributed this week, but that the remaining issues will be shipped next week. Marvel Comics Vice President of Sales-Publishing, David Gabriel told CBR News, “Diamond has been doing everything possible to make that those retailers affected will receive a portion of the books they ordered.”

When news of the delay broke, west coast retailer Brian Hibbs of Comix Experience posted on the Millarworld forum a plea to fans to “…just be a little patient, and not run all over town to try and grab a copy. Most comics shops have extremely tight cash flow, and have you down for ‘your' copy of ‘Civil War.' If you buy it somewhere else, your store still has to pay for that copy!”

On behalf of affected fans, Hibbs implored readers in other regions to not post reviews or spoilers of “Civil War” #6 until everyone else had received their copies.

“The situation stinks,” remarked Marvel's David Gabriel, adding, “I'm looking into doing something to help out those retailers who were affected… If it had been any other title involved, it wouldn't be such a terrible problem. We are taking steps to make sure something similar does not affect the launch of ‘Dark Tower: Gunslinger Born.'”
---------------

Is anyone surprised?

xman25

I've read a somewhat similar article on Newsarama. Well, if the cause of the problem is the weather, then it's nobody's fault. But then, CW #6 is late to begin with, and add the delay brought by the weather/transpo problem, I wouldn't be surprised to see some angry fans complaining about the delay.

So 1/2 the team changing doesn't mean they split up?

How do you mean? Cause that's definitely how you worded it in your post, perhaps a rephrase please?

It's probably another plot twist in the FF canon. Reed's probably in hiding after the CW fiesta. That, or he joined the French team Thing is currently with.

Ok, this is getting ridiculous.

I'm not surprised, Marvel tends to do that a LOT. Damn.. Feb. 21 is so far away.

Here is the official release on the delay:
(from comicbookresources.com)

MARVEL ANNOUNCES NEW "CIVIL WAR" #7 PAGE COUNT & RELEASE DATE
by Arune Singh, Staff Writer
Posted: January 9, 2007

Official Press Release

The critically- and commercially-acclaimed universe-altering limited series is coming to a close, bursting with some of the most intense action and plot twists ever. Literally. While Marvel regrets the final late shipping of the issue, we are pleased to announce that there will be extra pages added at no additional cost. The final, in-store arrival date for Civil War #7 is February 21.

Says series editor Tom Brevoort, “CIVIL WAR #7 has topped out at 28 pages of story content—six more than a normal comic. As such, we need to block in a little bit more time to make sure that Steve can get it done—especially since these are some of the most difficult pages in the entire series to draw from a number-of-characters-on-the-page perspective.”

Now, to help tide you over until the final issue comes out, here is a look at the unseen cover to Civil War #7, by series artist Steve McNiven.

In addition to extra pages, Civil War is getting a shocking epilogue issue, CIVIL WAR: THE CONFESSION, brought to you by the Eisner-winning team of Brian Michael Bendis & Alex Maleev- the team that brought you the Civil War prequel New Avengers: The Illuminati. RETAILERS NOTE: this item is not in the Marvel Order Form. Please use the item code NOV068200.

The Final checklist with final shipping dates are below. To help fans and retailers, Marvel will provide retailers with an adslick that they can download showing the new cover and the updated checklist. Check the Marvel retailer pages for this by visiting https://retailer.diamondcomics.com/main/marvel/

FANTASTIC FOUR 542 17-Jan-07
CIVIL WAR: THE RETURN 24-Jan-07
MOON KNIGHT 7 24-Jan-07
PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL 3 24-Jan-07
BLACK PANTHER 24 31-Jan-07
CIVIL WAR: BLACK PANTHER WAR CRIMES (21-23) 07-Feb-07
CIVIL WAR: CASUALTIES OF WAR One-Shots (IRON MAN/CAPTAIN AMERICA, WAR CRIMES, WINTER SOLDIER) 14-Feb-07
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 538 21-Feb-07
CIVIL WAR 7 21-Feb-07
CIVIL WAR POSTER BOOK 21-Feb-07
FANTASTIC FOUR 543 21-Feb-07
MOON KNIGHT 8 21-Feb-07
BLACK PANTHER 25 28-Feb-07
CIVIL WAR: FRONT LINE 11 28-Feb-07
CIVIL WAR: THE INITIATIVE 28-Feb-07
CAPTAIN AMERICA 25 07-Mar-07
CIVIL WAR: BATTLE DAMAGE REPORT 07-Mar-07
MARVEL SPOTLIGHT: CIVIL WAR AFTERMATH 07-Mar-07
CIVIL WAR: THE CONFESSION 14-Mar-07
MOON KNIGHT 9 21-Mar-07

CIVIL WAR: THE CONFESSION (NOV068200)

Written by BRAIN MICHAEL
Pencils & Cover by ALEX MALEEV

From the Eisner Award winning team that brought you the start of CIVIL WAR with the NEW AVENGERS ILLUMINATI SPECIAL comes this heart-wrenching finale that cannot be missed. Two of the Marvel heroes most affected by the shocking conclusion of the war get together one last time. What is said between them will set the course of the Marvel Universe for years to come. This is the confession. Alex Maleev unveils another new fantastic art style especially for this very emotional and shocking issue.
Rated T+ ...$2.99
FOC 2/22/07, On-Sale 3/14/07

CIVIL WAR #7 (OF 7) (SEP062101)
Written by MARK MILLAR
Pencils & Cover by STEVE MCNIVEN
It all ends here! The startling battle that will determine the future of the Marvel Universe!
Rated T+ ...$2.99
FOC 2/1/07 , On-Sale 2/21/07

CIVIL WAR #7 (OF 7) TURNER VARIANT (SEP062102)
Written by MARK MILLAR
Pencils & Cover by STEVE MCNIVEN
Rated T+ ...$2.99
FOC 2/1/07 , On-Sale 2/21/07

CIVIL WAR #7 (OF 7) TURNER SKETCH VARIANT (SEP062103)
Written by MARK MILLAR
Pencils & Cover by STEVE MCNIVEN
Rated T+ ...$2.99
FOC 2/1/07 , On-Sale 2/21/07

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4...07100thga2.jpg

Aw man that cover looks sweet! Pretty much boils down to just Cap and Iron Man. The delay news sucks, but the additional pages news is great! Means it's gonna be done right, and won't get cut short.

At least they're making up for the delay.

(can't wait for new Maleev art!)

Civil War 7 was finally released and....

CW7 is such a disappointment. Fucking Millar. Like 'nuggle said, the ending was total crap. I mean, what the hell? I think they rushed this fucking thing just so they can end it and get on with continuity. Millar's a good writer, he could have done better than a boring ending like that. But yeah, at least there's good follow-up stories. The Spider-Man tie-in is a lot better than Civil War, at least it made sense.

Also new Ronin is actually

I don't know why I didn't think of that. It could work, but then again the rest of the heroes seem to dislike that man. Is this a guess of yours?

RE Amazing Spider-Man 538 - it was lame how they plugged CW7. The issue was way too long. Nothing happened until the last two pages. Actually, I'll admit, the stuff with Fisk in prison was interesting, but I really could have gone without the 2-3 pages showing the sniper fall asleep. LAME.

The guess came from the most (un)reliable source, 4chan. But I thought it's interesting, and that it might work.

Based on what I've heard about the direction of the new team, I think he could fit. They're billing Ronin as a character that is trying to change his or her ways, so maybe the events of CW7 have made that man turn over a new leaf?

Perhaps, but then that means Punisher will be more of a "superhero", and less of a "vigilante". And I think majority of the readers like him to be more of a vigilante rather than to be tagged as one of the "non killing" heroes.

Ya, which is why I believe that he might not be Ronin. Also, the little bit of speech that Ronin had in the latest issue of New Avengers definitely didn't sound like it was coming from the mouth of the Punisher.

Props on the new av/sig. That new series is dope.

At first, I thought the world had gone completely mad when I read that people actually enjoyed CW7's ending. Thank goodness this place has some sanity left. But anyway, I thought Hercules had the best scene.

At least we still have the Spidey-led underground resistance movement (i.e. New Avengers) to look forward to. :)

Oh man, I agree with you guys completely, the ending was a complete let down. It was like they just cut it off, definitely felt like a piece was missing somewhere. Though, at the same time the ending of the war was inevitable and predictable. The issue had some good moments (eg. Hercules' scene and assist from an unlikely hero), but the abrupt end was meh.

Also, anyone else find that NcNiven's work for this issue was somewhat inconsistent? If anything the coloring definitely took a hit. Panels, not pages (though, there were some of that too), that were just inconsistent. Hell, the last few pages looked like crap compared to the previous issues.

Clearly a rushed issue. Oh well, looking forward to these post-war follow up tie-ins. As that's probably where a chunk of the closure is destined to be.

Does anybody know what the big secret that Ben Ulhric discovered in Civil War Frontline was? I never ended up finishing that series and I'd like to know.

I missed issues 8-10 of Front Line, but from the synopses I read, Ben Urich's fed. friend, Dan, suspected someone was manipulating Norman Osborn's nanobots and that Tony Stark was using the "war" to generate money. (This scene takes place at the Atlantean hideout that the Green Goblin bombed.)

These aren't really secrets, if you ask me, considering they've been addressed in other tie-in issues.

Civil War Frontline #11 comes out this week. That will be the conclusion to this whole sordid mess, I guess.

Now that I've read Front Line #11, it seems I was right. And it was kinda obvious who was controlling Osborn...

So basically... (Frontline 11 and Thunderbolts 110-111)

Actually, Urich said he won't be releasing his (and Sally's) story.

...when? WTF is the point of him confronting Tony if he's not going to do anything with it?

Toward the end of Front Line #11, Urich says to Tony:

Greetings, gamingforce. Recently I've become very interested in the entirety of the marvel universe and want to pick up on reading Amazing Spiderman ( not the tie ins) and perhaps the civil war to get things started.

Is there a particular website that offers direct download scans of the latest spidey or comics out there?