The Hip Hop/Rap Thread
 

My friend and I have been battling it out on whether hip hop/rap is decent music. He says yes, I say not anymore. I think I say so because a lot of the creativity I grew up listening to is all but gone, save a few people here and there (Kayne West).

However, I still do enjoy listening to older hip hop/rap, especially The Roots. It seems like most of the stuff I'm hearing on the radio is sounding more and more like watered-down club music.

What is your opinion of hip hop/rap?

I'm not really sure you can clump them together like that. They are two different styles of music... or at least they used to be. I think, over time, the line between the two has become blurred. As to whether either is actually decent music, I feel that it depends. Some of it is good (has a good message, flows well, etc.). Most of it seems to be either derogatory or obscene, though that seems to appeal to some people.

Acro-nym, I didn't really want to clump them together, but I think having two separate threads would confuse people because a lot of people think they're the same thing. What are some of the good ones you've listened to?

I hate the current situation of hip hop. The shit they put out and play on the radio is commercialized pop garbage. The whole genre has seemed to have been on a downward spiral ever since Biggie and 2Pac were murdered. However, I still enjoy listening to hip hop before this. There were so many great artists out back then, producing original material and going unnoticed by the majority of Americans.

There are a few saving graces for today's rap industry, though. As you mentioned, there are the Roots. They're a pretty unconventional hip hop band that just fucking rocks. Another one I love (and hold two uploaded albums, if anyone wants a listen) is Immortal Technique. His music is so great, and actually conveys a message. He also has a great range of songs. Some are politically fueled gangster raps, and others tell a story. Just a great rapper, overall.

Back in the day, however, there were so many more great rappers. Slick Rick is one of my favorites, as are Eric B. and Rakim. They weren't just the commercialized garbage of today that's giving hip hop a bad name; they made terrific music, with awesome beats, and great lyrics. Too bad this era appears to be over now. :(

Capo, I agree with you. I've already nicknamed today's state of hip hop commercial crap. It's sad to see the lack of creativity in beats, hooks, and overall lyrics. I remember when rap battles used to be cool (remember LL Cool J and Kool Moe Dee?). Now the cool people I grew up listening to have all but disappeared, like Pete Rock & CL Smooth and A Tribe Called Quest.

I went to the last concert of Fort Minor's tour, which was on the eve of hip hop producer J-Dilla's death (who worked with artists including A Tribe Called Quest, Busta Rhymes, The Roots, ... awesome stuff). One of the pre-shows was one of his last products, called "Little Brother," the supposed future of hip hop. Man, that was some dull shit. The future of hip hop is grim.

Whoa! I had totally forgotten about Slick Rick. I always used to listen to him. Time to organize CDs.

My favourite rap group of all time has to be Public Enemy. Chuck D has one of the greatest voices in music. Pure authority. Besides that, N.W.A.'s Straight Outta Compton record keeps popping into my player. Nevermind if you don't like violent lyrics, that album is worth it for "Express Yourself" alone.

I think there has been a HUGE line driven into hip-hop and rap. Personally I enjoy some hip hop/rap, Fort Minor and Flipsyde are two of my faves right now. But there has been alot of change in the music styles.

I've been listening to a lot more rap/hip hop lately. I find Juelez Santana and Ludacris to be fairly entertaining to listen to. Kanye appealed to me more prior to last month. Jay-Z is cooler then I might have told you a few weeks ago, after listening to some of his older stuff via Dj Rectangle mixes. If you don't know dj Rectangle get Limewire or some similar program and search dj Rectangle immediately, that is if you like rap mixes that is. And heh, I like fiddy cent so :P
K-os is ok I guess to.

I tend to like almost all facets of rap today - both commercial and underground. Some cats out here like to disparage commercial acts, but sometimes I feel like people have a problem with these acts simply because they're popular. You know who I'm talking about - the so-called hip-hop 'purists' who only listen to cats like Aesop Rock, Necro, and Immortal Technique (among others). Nevermind that these cats don't have the kind of swagger or image to make it in the rap game even if they completely sold out and tried to make the same music say....Nelly makes.

Music is a business and when it's a business, businessmen are always going to cater to what sells - music that bangs in the clubs and that gets females dancing. Besides....I don't care who you are, if you can't enjoy a well-crafted club or party track you probably are a virgin.

At the end of the day, it's entertainment and there's gonna be different strokes for different folks.

That's why we all have our own opinions on it. That's what makes us unique as individual people. You're entitled to your opinion just like we're entitled to ours.

Thanks for rewording my last sentence because it needed that much clarification.

You're very welcome.

Exactly. I much preffered the term "different strokes for different folks." <3 Miyomi

My question is, how come when it comes time to criticize a genre, it's so frequently rap? Surely this isn't the only genre that puts out 99% pop garbage that sells. If we analyze a genre that way, it would appear that all genres currently suck.

True or false.

Only Sith deal in Absolute questions ;)

I'd say every genre has crap in it, but right now, Rap and Hip-Hop are popular with all the kids, so they focus on that, instead of something like... Big Band Swing or Classical Opera.

Well to be truthfull, I'm more in rap for the sense of a story or some lyrical talent that someone can demonstrate. Not to see some one who can get there rims bigger then your rims and how there Grills only costed them 500 000 Dollars while little timmy at the dentists braces only costed 500. But really there are some good beats I find in mainstream but thats about it, No real talent from many MC's in main stream cept Nas. Although the way I see it, If someone likes it, Then they like it. I just don't feel that it's that great.

Lol, Basically I just added on to your last sentence.

I was excited when I heard the Fugees were making a new album, but their recent single sucks ass. It fails on a hip-hop and mainstream rap level.

I thought there two albums were great and so was Lauryn Hill's solo album. They've been some of the few rap/R&B albums I actually enjoy entirely. So what the fuck happened with their single. It doen't represent several years of a breakup.

I'm surprised Lauryn Hill is even rapping after what appeared to be some kind of spiritual crisis that involved shaving her head and playing accoustic guitar for MTV.

I dig rap alot of times, my fav group is probably the coup. Everything they have ever done is fucking amazing.

So a new thread has appeared for HipHop/Rap now huh. It's about time...
Sup Lady Miyomi, has been a while. Seems I lost my account so I'm back to newb status >_<

Anyways I have to agree there's a fine line within the HipHop/Rap/Commertial whatever you wanna call it... As Night said "different strokes for different folks" is pretty much the genaral though I have into it. This genre has split into so many different styles is hard to keep up with anymore and is hard to explain to people since they are all basically categorized simply as "RAP".

There's still good HipHop out there Lady....is just not as simple as turning on the radio or the TV anymore though that's all.

OMG, WEAPON!!! Sup, man! Long time no see! :D

I know good hip hop is still around. I'm having a hard time finding some. :(

May I recommend, via Iwata's recommendation to the Music Exposure Club, Edan's Beuty and the Beat. Seriousley great, fresh sounding rap. He flows over a 60's psych-rock background, and the result is phenomenal. Everyone needs to check this out.

I completely agree. Definiely grab this.

I think that the best rapper, the two last years, is MF DOOM (also known as Viktor Vaughn). But i really appreciate the works of some producers like El-P.

Beauty and the Beat is some messed up shit. So that's what psych-rock sounds like? It reminds me of Boards of Canada. Also, for those of you that enjoy MF Doom, expect many uploads of his albums in the coming weeks. I just downloaded a discography of his stuff today.

Back to the topic - I think that we really need to stop associating the mainstream acts with the more underground acts. It seems to me like there are two different mentalities between the groups:

1) The mainstream people (50 cent, Nelly, Eminem, etc...) are generally more concerned with making some cheddar. They'll bust out the banging club tracks and the stereotypical slow jams (occasionally) because it's what sells. Hence they appeal to the mainstream.

2) The more underground MCs definitely seem to be "artists". Yes, they are hoping to make some money, but they obviously won't make as much as the mainstream guys because they do not spit to hot club beats. They definitely produce music that is more artistic than a club hit, and because of this, they don't sell as well. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule and some of these artists do become quite successful (e.g. Common, Mos Def, The Roots), however they do not make anywhere near as much cash as someone as mainstream as Jay Z or even P.Diddy (or wtv he calls himself these days).

I'll check it out. However, I still have an ex-friend's independent CD lying around somewhere. Would you guys listen to that? His style isn't so much as beats and stuff, he concentrates more on lyrics.

So does Aesop Rock, and he's one of my favorite rappers of all time. Upload it somewhere, and I'll try it out.

i'll be enjoyed to listen that. I practice myself since 8 years (in french), and i know how many difficulties you can observe when you try to launch some goods sounds in an independant structure.

Capo : Definitive Jux records are definitively on the top.

The only problem with it is that I don't have the original track listing anymore, but I can remember the names of a few songs. I'll upload it a little later. I don't have a cover for it either because I don't think they got that far.

Hey, I'm wondering, what your take on Jurassic Five? I haven't heard much from them recently, but I associate them with the more classic hip-hop scene (even if they've been a bit more recent). I definitely distinguish them from the "mainstream" in that they're definitely more about the rhymes and rhythm and just generally good music (to me anyway).

I haven't really heard too much one them, maybe like one song or so, but that was awhile ago. I'd have to listen to them again.

I haven't heard anything from J5 in a while myself but I can definetly say I like them. They always came out with fun hiphop type shit...

Def Jux is also on top of my list....an although they are on top of my list there will be something always missing from them since Co Flow seperated.

As much as I like Aesop....he confuses the shit out of me sometimes. The man is like the fucking Riddler sometimes. I still like his 1st album "Apple Seed" the best out of all his albums.

Vast Aire is another.....sometimes he doesn't make sense to me....

BLAH....I'm not good with words.....hence my confusion =/

Alright, here's the album I promised:

Elementz of da Earth - The Council

Despite hearing the use of "Team I.A.M." in the first song, that's not their name. Just a reminder, they concentrate more on lyrics than they do actual beats.

Great tracks there (especially the number three, i love the instrumental). For further information, where they from ? And since when do they practise ?

Yeah, him and his group (The Council) are independent artists. In case you couldn't tell, the MC (my ex-friend) is from NYC. He came down here for awhile and I have no idea what he's doing now. I have no idea how long he's been doing this, mostly likely years.

I tried to download this several (3!) times but it keeps failing near the end and it wont let me resume. if you could upload it elsewhere (e.g. rapidshare) that would be great. even just 1 track.

Alright, here's the re-uploaded version on Rapidshare:

http://rapidshare.de/files/17489409/...uncil.rar.html

Speaking of Jurassic 5, they finally have a new album coming out in late June. It's about time.. Power in Numbers came out three and a half years ago. :-o

the last months ive been hooked on dialated people's new album 20/20. It's so nice, got awesome beats and i love the songs themselvs. Only bad thing is that it's short (49min, which isnt short itself but marathon was much longer =D).

Bubba sparxx has a few good songs too.

Thats great news, and was it really 3 and a half years ago?!

Well..there are still some decent artists out there at least. Most of those mentioned in the thread already(Mos Def, Jurassic 5, Talib, etc.)

I tend to either listen to the really crappy rap, the stuff anyone into music shouldn't. I.E. ICP, Twiztid, Esham, Native Funk, Natas, Blaze, L.U. Cipha, Outsidaz, etc. All basically horrorcore artists. They're fun if you enjoy listening about monsters and killers. Great stuff, in my opinion.

I've also been getting into the more intelligent/linguistic artists. Tech N9ne, Del Tha Funky Homosapien, Hieroglyphics, MF Doom, etc. All of these guys are wonderful to listen to. Meh..I'll think of more, I know it..

Speaking of Mos Def, everyone here needs to go out and download (or buy!) his album Black on Both Sides. It's really an incredible album, filled to the brim with great songs. Ms. Fat Booty, although it may sound like a cliche, bad rap track, is one of the greatest songs he's ever put out. So yeah.

I was going to upload this for the Music Exposure Club, but I just found out the copy I got from a friend is missing two tracks. Instead, doing the untouchable Black Star album, also with Mos Def.

Man, I love that album, too. Kweli and Mos Def sound incredible together. The only track I don't like is their cover of Slick Rick's Children's Story. Just can't live up to the greatness that is the original.

Capo and everyone else ~ What did you all think of the album I posted?

everything Dilated have done since The Platform has fallen flat IMO. theyre just so...monotone sometimes. and not in a good way. boring, even.

I'm mostly into day by day and M.I.C stuff at the moment. managed to pick up a copy of Rodan's album which is very cool.

anyone here know anything about the UK grime scene? any good grime artists?

have you ever actually listened to NWA?

The only album worth listening to is

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...78444o96be.jpg

It was a clear black night, a clear white moon
Warren G was on the streets, trying to consume
some skirts for the eve, so I can get some funk
just rollin in my ride, chillin all alone

Haha, I remember that album. I used to have the CD of it before it was mysteriously lost when I moved. :(

I tend to hang onto songs by The Roots, Pete Rock & CL Smooth, Black Sheep, Souls of Mischief, Lords of the Underground, J-Live, A Tribe Called Quest, and Del La Soul. There's more but I can't exactly remember them all right now.

So a mini-discussion for serious hip-hop heads: who are the best lyricist you know, and what songs would you nominate as some of their finest? Please, no fiddy cent, I'm serious here.

Me:

Canibus - How we roll
Nas - Represent
Jadakiss - Knock yourself out
Biggie - One more chance

That's all from me from the moment, but do crazy with this.

J-Live - Braggin' Writes
UNIverse - The Roots
This or That - Black Sheep

I'll think of more later.

T.I. - Still Ain't Forgave Myself
Tonedeff - Porcelain

I actually thought the beats were (mostly) fire. track 3 kills it. havent given it all a proper listen just yet. sort of reminds me of all natural, not that I ever really listened to them.

Well, their main focus wasn't the beats at all. I thought it was a little strange when I heard them myself. Too bad I have no idea what they're up to see if they made another album.

A lot of people seem to think that that all rappers talk about "money, hoes, drinking. etc" Back in the early days there were alot of artists who kept it positive:

Run-DMC
The Fat Boys
Beastie Boys
KRS-One
Public Enemy
Ed OG And The Bulldogs
Salt-N-Pepa
DJ Jazzy Jeff And The Fresh Prince
Whodini
Krushin MC's

Sorry, but back in the early days, the Beastie Boys were not "keeping it positive". They picked that up later.

"Girls - to do the dishes
Girls - to clean up my room
Girls - to do the laundry
Girls - and in the bathroom
Girls, that's all I really want is girls
Two at a time I want girls
With new wave hairdos I want girls
I ought to whip out my girls, girls, girls, girls, girls!"


And how the hell do you put KRS-One and Public Enemy in the same group as Will Smith?

I hate it when people run their mouths about how hip hop used to be all good and positive.

the genre has only been around 20-30 years so its still evolving. the old school stuff is great but I prefer to listen to mid 90s onwards. hip hop is better now than it ever was.


also, Proof is dead. not like I was ever a fan or even listened to his music but,

I heard about this, man that sucks I really liked Proof and D12 they had a funny crazy style.

Speaking of positivity...

Sup Tech.

damn i liked proof the most. Lol, 8 mile too. Em is probably gonna do a special for him. I have to admit that i actully like Eminem when he's not playing retarded (like most of his earlier songs) some of his shit is awesome.

http://www.ilikemusic.com/images/art...full/proof.jpg

RIP:(

It's gonna be pretty hard to look at Eminem's video for Toy Soldiers.

Damn. It's a real shame people can't just make music without having to take things personal and resort to guns and homicide. Proof was probably the second-best lyricist in D-12 after Swift in my opinion, but he was definately unique and irreplacable.

Speaking of other great emcees out there -

"How many n***as that would actually kill still rhyming?
How many n***as that are actually signed still killing?"
- Talib Kweli in the ghostweed interlude, Art Official Intelligence - De la Soul

Apparently some.

I don't know what to think anymore. Like someone mentioned before, clumping these two genres together is..well, you know. Okay, I can't think of the word, hush.

I prefer Hip-Hop, though.

And yes, I heard about Proof. I don't know much about him, but it's a shame that had to..well, go down like that. Man, why are all the good rappers dieing on us? Why is Vanilla Ice still alive? How the hell did 50 Cent survive?

This has to be a pretty tough time for Eminem right now. His divorce and Proof getting killed.

Just what do all these killings achieve? I'll tell you what they achieve. Not a damn thing. Some people take beefs a little too far and decide to take extreme actions, which results in senseless deaths. Look at all of the rappers who have been killed due to violence; I counted about 10, but there may be more. A few well known ones are:


Biggie Smalls- died 3-9-97
Tupac Shakur- died 9-13-96
Jam Master Jay- died 10-30-02
Soulja Slim- 2-14-04(I'm told)

Then others like Mac Dre, Big L, Mr. C from RBL Posse, some guy from U.N.L.V. based out of New Orleans and even more. It's just that some people take it a little too far and instead of being grown up about their problems and discussing them like men, people want to murder, which is unjustified.

No shit. Murder = Bad.

Not to say it isn't sad when anyone dies, but it's not like murder is something new that's happening. It's not a problem in the rap scene so much as a problem with society as a whole.

circle of life. stop getting so attached to these humans. death is just another part of life...

also
one of the best tracks on that album IMO. "Neg-neg-negative record sales, ziga-zam"

for me, still now, Hiphop is dead...it aint like it used to be... there's still some good bands. Dont get me wrong. The roots, cunninlynguits, Common...hey I even like Kanye west haha..

But when you compare hiphop from the end of 80s and beg of 90s...the quality of hiphop is far from what it was back in the days... I lost a lot of feelings and involvement in the hiphop culture in the past 2 yrs...sadly...But i have hope..

I've heard some people say that underground rap is a vendetta against mainstream rap?
I don't know, I haven't heard any, but damn.. I sure wish 50 Cent hadn't survive those 9 shots.

yes, a lot of underground MCs are obsessed with how bad the mainstream is. lately I'm starting to find this kind of music equally annoying *cough*uglyduckling*cough*.

Damn man. That's harsh. Shoot I wouldn't wish death on my worst enemy.

OMG!!! You didn't mention The Roots! Have you given up on them? :(

None of you happen to have Dexter's Laboratory - The Hip Hop Experiment, would you?

It was a great album and I need it in VBR.

Thought I'd just throw that out there >_>

Nope, sorry, that's one I don't have. :(

Ahh, Some artists everyone here should peep is Binary Star, They're amazing and they give away they're first two albums for free, So if anyone wants here's the link:

http://www.subterraneousrecords.com/ww.html
http://www.subterraneousrecords.com/motu.html

Trust me there VERY iLL if you listen closely to there lyrics.

Thats the reason I like them so much. Thats all the sort of Hip Hop I generally go for as well. More along the lines of good simple emceeing (sp?) and great beats.

Has anyone here heard of Sage Francis? I really like his music, particularly in "A healthy distrust." A great album in my book!

I haven't. Does anybody listen to Pete Rock & CL Smooth? I know they're kinda old, but they still sound great.

I had some old mix tapes with some nice pete rock stuff on them - i think he did one back on the Tony Touch 50 mc's tapes. What do y'all think about Hip hop from other countries. Like Cuban Group Orishas they are great and have some interesting beats, also a while back one of the Old WU affiliates was rapping in France, Shabazz Tha Disciple I cant remember the name of the French Mc's although they where hot, and the producer from out there in France was nice also. As far as from good old US. Im really into The Jedi Mind Tricks, and I heard the New goshtface was supposed to be nice. And recently i heard this miz tape that had This peruvian rapper from NEw York Dissing BUSH with a couple of other Mc's on it. It was funny as hell.

My problem with commercial hip-hop/rap (And, it wasn't always like this, go back about 8 or 9 years) is that there's very little compositional effort and almost no lyrical variety. I'm serious, Usher's "Yeah" is a good example. The song is called "Yeah" because that's the fucking chorus.

Even commercial hip-hop, the shit that would get piped over the radio, a few years back had a lot of complexity in the melody and even, in some cases, a good message with good delivery.

I'm so disgusted with modern hip-hop/rap for another reason: I can't find a club that doesn't spin almost exclusively the same five fucking songs that every other joint in the country is spinning. Samething on the radio. You know, I go to club and expect actual dance music, like Club/House/Latin/Groove/Techstep/Trance/Hardstyle/Electropop/Drum n Bass. Much like European clubs, where there's at least some variety.

I hear so many recycled beats from popular tracks circa 1998, and too many overly simplistic lyrics that make it hard for me to take the artist seriously.

It's not even about dancing to the music, because I like to dance to hip-hop, but this new-school shit licks balls, man. What happened to the days of Wu-Tang Clan?

1. usher is not hip hop.

2. some of the surviving members of wu tang are still doing their thing, e.g. ghostface just released a new album.

3. hip hop keeps evolving and getting better so stfu if you think it used to be better than it is.

Duo Maxwell, you're right. Of course, people here don't want to hear that so any sure you're going to get some pathetic negative respones.

I miss when it was more about creativity and words. Now, I just see all the number one hits about Sex. Sex. and of course, more sex.

Now, I find myself tuning out the trashy lyrics and focusing on the beat. After a while, another song comes out that has the same feel. Most #1 hits are usually shallow and easy to duplicate (and everyone tries to duplicate a number one song.)

Currently, I cut down to listening to the modern rap. I don't really see it as a creative message anymore. I see it as more of a "who can make the best and loudest beat" contest.

Who will criticize me first. Could you be that person?

you'll get negative responses becuase you are oblivious to underground hip hop and dont know what youre talking about.

Do you know what you're even getting mad it? This wasn't about underground rap and hip-hop, it's about Mainstream Rap and Hip-Hop.

At least comprehend what someone is talking about before you try to bite them.

Everyone should check out Gnarls Barkley. It's a team effort by Dangermouse and Cee-Lo, and the result is incredible. It has a sort of psych-rock tinge to it that's just amazing. Their first single "Crazy" is already released, and their soon-to-be released album St. Elsewhere is available for download (illegally and maybe legally). Good stuff, which seems rarer and rarer nowadays.

Here's a little backround on them, and some of the amazing promo pictures they've taken.

http://www.waxploitation.com/images/...yspace_bio.jpg

A Clockwork Orange

http://myspace-790.vo.llnwd.net/0060...08920790_l.jpg

Wayne's World

http://myspace-307.vo.llnwd.net/0058...85125307_l.jpg

Freddy and Jason

ps. If anyone has any desktop size pics of them, it would be greatly appreciated

wtf are you talking about? are you implying that this thread is for mainstream hip hop only? I'm trying to understand but you're coming across as very nonsensical.

Before you get up on your high horse I think you forgot one important point. Duo Maxwell is talking about mainstream hip hop. Which he is correct in saying that it's shit.

So why don't you shut the fuck up?

Or I was talking about Mainstream Hip Hop and Rap in my post. So was Duo Maxwell.

Please, stop getting heated for no reason.

Damn, I had no idea this was in the works, and I love Cee-Lo.

Something else worth checking, and that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread, is the new album from The Coup. "Pick a Bigger Weapon" is in stores now, and it's pretty damn good. It also features a great guest spot from Black Thought And Talib Kweli.

I listen to Mainstream hip-hop and rap (it resides on my PC so it gets played from time to time) but I don't really like it the way other people do.

But I will admit a love for rap/hip-hop that's more about wordplay and lyrical prowess over "hot beats, booty-shakin', commercial" crap. Like soniclover and Duo Maxwell, I really don't like mainstream.

At the moment my current favorite MC is Lupe Fiasco; he's currently under the Atlantic brand but he's been putting out his own mixtapes via his label "1st and 15th" for some time now. Even though people say he's the next big thing from Chicago and following in the footsteps of Common and Kanye West I don't think he can be generalized like that. He was on Kanye's "Touch the Sky" and his newest single (from his Album Food and Liquor) "Kick Push" was premiered on BET a couple of weeks ago.

Having listened to an advance copy of his album I must say he's talented. I suggest you guys check him out. He's just that good.

i did mention the roots dear..

Oh man, yes you did... :(

Does anybody here ever listen to J-Live?

J-live first two albums are amazing...but his newest one is quite dissapointing...

Have you heard the rare LP with "Longevity" and "Braggin' Writes" on there? Awesome stuff!

Also, who here has heard of the BoogieMonsters? For those that have no idea what I'm talking about, here's one of their songs, "Recognized Thresholds of Negative Stress":

http://www.sendspace.com/file/b67tek

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060429/...music50_cent_5

50 cent is dissin' Oprah lol.

I never really cared for Oprah anyway, but that's a whole different topic.

Funny song, though.

talking about Hiphop, In the UK they will an amazing release which we won't have here in North America... its Kanye West live with an amazing orchestra.

So look on the web for kanye West - Late Orchestra

amazing shizzle

I don't understand why people enjoy Kanye West so much. I mean, his music is predictable, his rapping is mediocre, and he's an arrogant prick. What's the fascination?

Yeah, I got it this weekend though the title is Late Orchestration.

I like Kanye because he's (to me) an angrier, edgier bersion of Common.

Thank god its not just me that thinks that then.

I agree with your assessment of Kayne West, knkwzrd. I've heard a few of his songs and they're quite annoying. His style is lower than all the hype that surrounds him makes him out to be. I think his arrogrance just about kills his rep in my eyes.

Honestly, my favorite artist based on lyrics is Nas. I still haven't seen anyone that has topped him.

My favorite group would have to be Do or Die, especially "Picture this" album. I'm a fan of old school hiphop (Pharcyde, etc.) and I can't get enough of it. I do like some mainstream, but I also like the underground artists. Such as Saigon. (Saigon & Nas - War is a good example) Most of the mainstream artists though drive me up the wall...such as Kanye West.

I think I'm reawakening my taste for old school hip hop. I've been on a search for all the stuff I used to listen to. I've found most of it.

I always thought Nas had a good style and I think he shows it off best in Illmatic.

Illmatic reminded me of hiphop somehow. I also liked the "It was written" album. Very nice.

Look for Do or Die! You have to remember "Do you wanna riiiiiide in the back seat of a caddy.." Money Flow, Po Pimpin, Still Po pimpin, and Paper Chase were my favorite tracks. :)

Illmatic is one of my fav. rap album ever!

Just about every day, he's my favorite MC. The creativity and precision in his lyrics never ceases to amaze me.

As for his last album, at first I didn't like it because I listend to it passively. When I went back and actively listend to the lyrics and some of his metaphors I'd rank most of it up there with his best. Stand out songs on The Here After Fire Water, Brooklyn Public, and The Sidewalks. Lyrically the're magnificent.

You didn't like "Braggin' Writes" or "Longevity"? "Braggin' Writes" is my favorite.

Just a general question, does anybody here listen to slightly older hip hop?

That's most of what I listen to hip-hop wise.

I can't listen to older hip-hop because I've found that with the exception of a select few gems, the production values of hip-hop sucked majorly before 1992. It just doesn't sound good to me.

You're right about the production values, but that doesn't really bother me. I have no problem with lo-fi records.

yesterday I bought some tickets for The Roots and DJ Shadow...coming live in montreal for the jazz fest!!! yes!!!!!!

Ill see the Roots for the third time and finally for the first time DJ Shadow..I always wanted to see this dude live...right now im watching the dj shadow live dvd! hehe..

WHAT?! How much are the tickets?! I definitely need to check this shit out!!

Isn't Braggin Writes by Dj Premo and j live?

I listen to real hip-hop (rap,etc) Anything that has a hot ass beat and without a egotistical loser (50 cent) is all good. And yes i listen to the old stuff too.

Ghostface's recent album was pretty good.

Clipse of Doom is sick.

I got both for 90$

As far as I know J-live is known for MC'ing that trick while spinning the records at the same time.

I just got ahold of Common's "Be" and I think it's pretty good. Has anybody else listened to this?

Hell yeah! One of my favorite albums. I wish I were a little bit longer, but then again it's good that it's not stuffed with filler and remixes and interludes and shit.

Favorite tracks are "Faithful", "The Food", and "GO!"

I'm quite fond of "It's Your World", "Be", and "Love Is". I was a little surprised to learn it wasn't as long as I was expecting. I wonder why he did that.

I agree with you on fillers and interludes. They get old after awhile, especially when you have no idea why they're even there and what they mean.

Yeah. I like the album. It's pretty good. Common performed here at my school last week, except I didn't go since I wasn't at the Wizards game. I heard it was awesome as well.

Now, I'm kinda curious, what's your favorite album by x-artist that you just can't see yourself parting with? Mine's would probably be "Things Fall Apart" by The Roots.

I'm actually listening to Gnarls Barkley right now, and it's just so damn REFRESHING. Seriously, get the album, St. Elsewhere. It's awesome.

Also, check out Deltron 3030 (2000) and Dr. Octagonecologyst (1997). The latter, Dr. Octagon, actually has a new CD due out on June 27, I believe, his first under the name since 1997. The single out right now, "Ants", even has help from DJ Dexter of The Avalanches. Download it right now off of my Briefcase! It's under the music folder.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/zimarooski@sbcglobal.net

I'll check out the album in a few, thanks!

I think my next "I can't do without" album would probably be the one I just got, Common's "Be". Here it is if anybody wants it:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/97zf4t

Reading through this thread I'm surprised more of you haven't taken the initiative and uploaded more albums to the Music Exposure Club. Hip hop (and by that, I mean GOOD hip hop) is becoming a lesser distributed media and most of you are actually putting forth quite some thought into differentiating it from its mainstream media whore of a sister.

Come see us sometime. ;)

Hip-hop is okay as long as it is the jazz pop stella deus of Street Fighter 3: Third Strike, King of Fighters, Capcom vs. SNK, Deus Ex: The Conspiracy, and Metroid Prime. The composer sure knew what he was doing when he made fuchi komas out of "The Longshoreman" and "Vigor Force".

Other than that, since most mainstream music is instrumental rap it sucks just as much as the vocal rap because it's all one beat and uses timbre to make disturbingly poor 'songs' with terrible sound quality and even worse compositions. The only exceptions to the rule I've found have been Sean Paul, DMX, and Mariah Carrey, since they've both figured out how to compose at the highest level and reach 100% in composition and sound quality without being VGM. Mariah Carrey's newest song was all asanoganawa which means she's reached 200% and might as well be composing for a Xenosaga or R-Type game. Sean Paul's "Temperature" was a very fast paced impressionistic arcus that demonstrated some very high level of poetic skills, especially since he bolroxed in Portugese and not English. DMX was all asanoganawa too and has been ever since I first listened to them. If only they'd do more with their songs . . .

Other than that, most hip-hop begs the question for why the 'composer' shouldn't be oppressed.

Anyway, since I've composed Capcom Vs. SNK and it's trip-hop of the most psyched out levels, I know a lot about every kind of music in practically every style since I've been composing most of my life, with just about four new soundtracks composed in the last year.

I'm hoping this post is a rather elaborate joke, but I know I'll be let down.

Sean Paul creates a "fast paced impressionistic arcus"? That's comedy gold, even if we ignore that you made up a word.

Sean Paul, DMX, and Mariah Carey composing at the highest level. Now that I think about it, "What These Bitches Want" and "Keep Your Shit The Hardest" certainly rival Philip Glass in compositional terms.

Not to put down someone who knows a lot about practically every style of music, but "instrumental rap" is oxymoronic.

Seriously though, GTFO.

Actually, the masterers of all of my music and my boss in the VGM field coined the term arcuses for my Kingdom Hearts soundtracks. The composer of Drakengard also uses arcuses. And no, impressionistic is not made up. It's a style of music used in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, Seiken Densetsu, and Romancing Saga -Minstrel Song- are all impressionistic. Perhaps you should be trying to use real evidence about what those composers composed at their highest levels instead of pitling away at your integrity by insulting a VGM composer. There's plenty more VGM composers out there who feel the exact same way I do.

Instrumental rap is not oxymoronic because all it takes to make something rap is that its time signature is one beat and it uses timbre. Silent Hill and Resident Evil and Galerians are all instrumental rap because they focus on using sounds of other peoples' dissassocia in their anti-music to make up for their lack in compositional integrity. Most likely though, since every one in rap loves dissassocia it's safe to say you most likely have that disorder because nearly every one in the rap community has already denounced God and questioned his one true religion while they weren't in their studios and turned what was once great objective standards about composing into relatavistic squalor.

In the end, members like you are the joke.

Member 0: "Mommy, what's impressionism and what's an arcus?"

Mommy: "You would know if you didn't plagiarize in your music class!"

In reality, since no one in the rap community could ever hope to compose impressionistically or arcussaly it's proof their melodies will never get complex enough to paint a picture with instrumentals or combine the random with the static in terms of melodies and harmonies.

Now, moron, the theme of Parasite Eve's "Matrix" will come to haunt your dissassocia and make you atone for your crimes against God in your musical preferences. As if songs of the caliber you mentioned could ever outdo the trance of Parasite Eve, the arcuses of Kingdom Hearts, the asanoganawa of R-Type and Xenosaga and Xenogears, and the impressionism of Baten Kaitos.

*OMG, one misused word! That sure does prove videogames ruined my brain after I helped bring wanzers to the US and used my medicinal programs to cure thyroid problems and mental illnesses! Computer programmers and composers are such idiots!! -Omega Weapon does not endorse the previous relatavistic point of view. Relatavists only care about power, not doing the right thing anyway.

Why do you so fervently choose to dismiss any artist in favor of video game music? And why are we morons for pointing this out?

Caliber... That's CALIBER.

Alice was right... Drugs and videogames DO kill your brain.

They're morons if they favor arrangements over OSTs because those arrangements are all instrumental rap that plagiarizes the OSTs just so some moron can live a delusion that he beat a composer with a 'better' version of something they already composed. Valkyrie Profile Arranged is a perfect example of one-beat rap arrangements of VGM.

So um... You were a victim of VGM plagiarism, I take it?

I'm sorry, son. We don't have a support group for that here.

No, those VGM plagiarists are just future fodder for Square-Enix's wanzer brigades. Yes, they're real, but you have to work with the right people to pilot those things. After all, all Front Mission games are just people recording other people's adventures in a wanzer squadron. I just got done with Front Mission 5 a year and a half ago and we had to make Len Wenright beat herself since she was survival horror plagiarism.

What part of "no support group for that here" don't you understand?

The part that says there's no support group for rap-heads who eat plagiarism. Looks like Square-Enix has some Dhoulmagus wannabes that think their is strength in numbers when one single japanese fuchi koma could wipe out their anti-support groups so swiftly they tried to make up for getting dissassocia but couldn't because they were to busy debating their ids.

But in what way is VGM the end all, be all of music for you? Do you not realize how CLOSE-MINDED that is?

Rap: to rhythmically deliver rhyming lyrics.

Instrumental: a piece of (usually nonclassical) music performed solely by instruments, with no vocals.


Looks like my friend the Oxford Dictionary says your wrong.

Omega Weapon, what in the world are you basing your judgments on?

Its more like Hip Hop, or instrumental Hip Hop than Rap. Rap is more about the vocals.

It's not closed minded when everything else has timbre. My VGM has every genre available, so where is there a lack of the genre crossing boundaries that you speak of. Star Ocean 3's "Bitter Dance" alone should break those barriers when every other rapper is merely just testing the number of permutations they can rap about losing their intelligences on other people, hence their dissassocia. In other words, before you whine about my 'closed-mindedness' you had better do a significant VGM research outside of the typical mario and ddr every modern moron has been associated with.

"OMG, I don't like VGM since I don't like the ghost house themes in mario!"

That's exactly how you all sound when Shadow Hearts's two-beat drop music beats anything you could come up with. In essence, if you don't like Shadow Hearts, then you're really the closed minded ones.

And finally, the Oxford dictionary doesn't know everything about music. Anyone studying music theory knows what an instrumental rap is and it sounds just like something out of Silent Hill and Resident Evil.

OK... Let's see if we can figure something out here. You have sat there typing out fallacy after fallacy and when I called you closed-minded, the best retort you could come up with was a sentence that pretty much corroborated that?

Omega Weapon, why are you comparing VGM to hip hop and rap? That's like trying to compare it to classical. It just isn't going to work.

Well, it's not such an EXTREME degree of comparison. My complaint isn't coming from the angle that it's an invalid comparison. My complaint is that the angle only plays from that angle relentlessly and is downright narrow-minded.

There's plenty of hip hop VGM out there Lady Miyomi. Metroid Prime is hip hop, King of Fighters: Maximum Impact is hip hop, and then the Capcom vs. SNK and SNK vs. Capcom soundtracks are all hip hop. Sega also has plrenty of hip hop in its Sonic Adventure 2 games. So it does to work out. The only difference between it and the timbre anti-music of the mainstream area is that it has much better instrumentation, sound quality, and compositions and is less vocal.

And no Encephalon, I'm not closed minded musically because you don't know the difference between the white noise of mainstream anti-music with timbre in it and the real music of VGM and the classical and new age composers who've already destroyed the competition aesthetically. Have fun debating your id, Encephalon.

Enceph ~ I agree with you.

Omega Weapon ~ I agree that there's plenty of hip hop VGM. However, the fact that you're using that to knock the original stuff is coming off as a bit arrogant.

Encephalon doesn't know the difference between mainstream music and classical? Wait, which one of you said DMX was a master of composition?

However, he's got a valid point there.

So you designed the soundtracks to kingdom hearts, Capcom vs SNK, etc. I call bullshit. Anyways, it is nothing but a hassle arguing with dis-illusioned square/enix fanboys like yourself.

We've got 5 million ways to kill a Omega Weapon
Slap him up and shake him up and then you know
Let him off the flo' then bait him with the dough
You can do it funk or do it disco y'know how this

Microsoft motherfuckers let bygones be bygones
But since I’m macintosh, i’ma double click your icons

Slap him up, indeed. In addition to doing all this soundtrack work, check this out:

2500 pages of writing this bad? He reeks of bullshit.


Anyhow, back to rap music. Has anyone gave a listen to The Coup's new album yet? Any good?

I've been digging it lately, it isn't as good as Genocide & Juice or Steal this album, but it is as good as Party Music which is a fine album, so it is definetely worth the price of purchase, but then again im a fanboy when it comes to the Coup and any Bay Area artist.

they are also on a massive tour right now and they are always great live, so check them out if you get the chance.

here is a list

05/28/2006 - Sun - Boise, ID
Neurolux
05/30/2006 - Tue - Missoula, MT
The Other Side
05/31/2006 - Wed - Bozeman, MT
Zebra
06/01/2006 - Thu - Fargo, ND
The Aquarian
06/02/2006 - Fri - Minneapolis, MN
Triple Rock
06/03/2006 - Sat - Chicago, IL
The Abbey
06/04/2006 - Sun - Lansing, MI
Temple Club
06/05/2006 - Mon - Cleveland Heights, OH
Grog Shop
06/06/2006 - Tue - Buffalo, NY
Buffalo Icon
06/07/2006 - Wed - Boston, MA
The Paradise
06/08/2006 - Thu - New York, NY
The Bowery Ballroom
06/09/2006 - Fri - Brooklyn, NY
South Paw
06/11/2006 - Sun - Baltimore, MD
Otto Bar
06/12/2006 - Mon - Washington, D.C.
Black Cat
06/13/2006 - Tue - Asheville, NC
Stella Blue
06/14/2006 - Wed - Charlotteville, VA
Satellite Ballroom
06/15/2006 - Thu - Chapel Hill, NC
Local 506
06/16/2006 - Fri - Atlanta, GA
The Earl
06/17/2006 - Sat - New Orleans, LA
House of Blues
06/20/2006 - Tue - Houston, TX
Warehouse Live
06/21/2006 - Wed - Denton, TX
Haileys
06/22/2006 - Thu - Austin, TX
Emos
06/24/2006 - Sat - Tempe, AZ
Marquee Theater
06/25/2006 - Sun - San Diego, CA
House of Blues
06/27/2006 - Tue - Hollywood, CA
The Avalon
06/28/2006 - Wed - Anaheim, CA
House of Blues
06/29/2006 - Thu - Santa Cruz, CA
The Catalyst
07/01/2006 - Sat - Salt Lake City, UT
Egos
07/02/2006 - Sun - Durango, CO
Abbey Theater
07/03/2006 - Mon - Denver, CO
Quixotes
07/06/2006 - Thu - Lake Buena Vista, FL
House of Blues
07/07/2006 - Fri - Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Revolution
07/08/2006 - Sat - St. Petersburg, FL.
Jannus Landing
07/09/2006 - Sun - Tallahassee, FL
Beta Bar
07/11/2006 - Tue - Myrtle Beach, SC
House of Blues
07/14/2006 - Fri - Northampton, MA
Pearl Street
07/16/2006 - Sun - New Haven, CT
Bar Night Club
07/18/2006 - Tue - Providence, RI
Lupos Heartbreak Hotel
07/19/2006 - Wed - Portland, ME
Space Gallery
07/20/2006 - Thu - Burlington, VT
Higher Ground
07/23/2006 - Sun - Milwaukee, WI
Stonefly Brewery
08/12/2006 - Sat - San Francisco, CA
The Independent

I haven't seen this much hot air since The Alabama Jubilee.

Figures. A 42 date tour and the closest stop is an eight hour drive.

Enceph, I wouldn't go so far as to soil the good name of the Hot Air Balloon Classic with this jackass.

I saw Dave Chappelles Block party and it reminded me why i like hip-hop, especially one song, Mos def feat Talib Kweli - Definition. None of that silly "gangsta" thing, just keeping it real and pure rhymes.
Thank you Chappelle.

OK...I'm confused....WTF are we talking about here now? VGM HipHop is better than HipHop? I mean I went back and read how this started but what is the point you're trying to make exaclty?

Also aren't artist like FatJon and DJ Shadow considered instrumental HipHop?

On another note...

I just got all the Samurai Champloo sountracks finaly....Yes I'm kinda late on that but whatever....Best fucking hiphop I've heard in a while. The damn beats are sick!

Also I'm loving this Narls Barley album. It's just something different to listen to but refreshing.

Oh, Gnarls Barkley. Gotta remind myself to check
that out, as well as MF Doom and other Danger
Mouse stuff. Related note: only just bought GZA's
Beneath the Surface. Dunno what took me so long;
I completely like what I hear.

Ahh, MF Doom is iLL, MF Grimm is iLL, NAS Is iLL, Binary Star is iLL, Common is iLL, Big L is iLL, Immortal Technique is iLL, KRS-One is iLL, Jedi Mind Tricks are iLL, Common is iLL, Mathematik is iLL, Cormega is iLL.

Those rappers and many more are iLL, The way I see it Hip Hop's gone down hill and it still is. Apprently the new fad is listening to club music when your not even in a club. I don't understand the whole basis but for some reason meaningful music is gone and apparently wack music is the new basis of it all.

I really think if people were more open minded when it comes to underground (Which there not) Hip Hop would be more marketable when it comes to a rapper trying to his message across. Suprisingly the only recent rapper who has done something new with the rap game and hasn't be washed away based on the media's effect on main stream artists is Lupe Fiasco. Seriously Hip Hop has gone down as a community and as an art form.

Rap is alive, Just not how it should be. Anyone who doesn't understand what i'm saying listen to: I Used to love H.E.R. by Common.

The real reason why people aren't open to underground hip-hop is because 98 percent of 'underground' rappers don't know how to make hot songs.

It's not that people got anything against so-called 'conscious' hip-hop, it's that most underground rappers sound fucking horrible. Their beats suck, their flows and deliveries suck, their hooks are completely uncatchy and thus forgettable, and they just sound unpolished as all fuck.

Guys like Kanye West and Lupe Fiasco get their fair share of radio play because they understand the concept of making good songs.

Ahh, BUT, Listen to Immortal Technique, Or Pitch Black Or Jedi Mind tricks EVEN Mf Doom and MF Grimm or Even Binary Star. They ALL have ill beats.

Are you seriously citing Kanye West as a decent beat maker? the dude recycles his beats and loops more then 50 Cent spews utter garbage and lies about being tough and a street thug.

I've heard all these people. To me, these people's beats suck the wang.

Yes. He's one of my top five producers, actually.

:o, Well I guess thats your opinion. I personally think they all have some of the best beats ever produced...

I've got to agree with you right there. You have a very valid point.

Seriously, you seem to be infatuated with the mainstream trend of re-using old beats over, and over, and over again. Tech and MF Doom have some of the most innovative sounds I have ever heard in rap, and actually put some effort into making themselves stand out from the bunch. Honestly, I couldn't even tell a lot of these popular rappers apart, most of the time.

Now; enlighten me if you will, "Flowman", what exactly constitutes a "hot song"?

Double Post:
You seem to be missing the point here Capo. Last I heard, recycling 70's and 80's songs into "HOT BEATS" and "SCREWTAPES" was the crux of rap music.

YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. LEAVE THE THREAD FOREVER.

A hot song is hot in all aspects - the beat is stellar, the rhymes are awe-inspiring, and the hook is absolutely infectious - you cannot get it out of your head.

There's a reason why a lot of emcees like MF Doom, Immortal Technique, and others will never see mainstream success: They make music that is almost intentionally dull, drab, and unlistenable to by the average consumer. From the beats to the rhymes to the hook, the songs these artists make are inherently weak.

And while you can fall back upon the 'it's just your opinion', you gotta realize that I'm pretty deeply entrenched in the music industry. I know what the fuck I'm talking about regarding this. It doesn't mean that these artists will have to dumb down their lyrics and make a carbon-copy club track on par with "Laffy Taffy" or "Lean Wit It, Rock Wit It." It does, however, mean that they will have to step up their songwriting game.

For example - take the entire QN5 Music roster: Tonedeff, Pack FM, Cunninlynguists, Session, and a few others.

I know Tone personally and Deacon is one of the reasons I started spitting rhymes in the first place. I've heard unreleased material from these guys that if it ever got the mainstream exposure it would simply blow the fuck up.

But when it comes to putting out an album, what do these guys do? They go completely abstract. Tonedeff sabotages himself by putting out a song like "Politics" out as the first 'single' and wonders why he's 'slept on' by the music industry. Deacon and Kno proceed to release an album that is good, but has nothing that is marketable whatsoever - and despite the critical acclaim they receive, they really have nothing to show for it.

This is exactly what I'm talking about regarding these rappers - they either don't have the ability to create a song that appeals to anything other than a niche market or they refuse to in the name of 'art.'

So no, these guys that are stuck in the underground are going to stay that way because they aren't complete as artists.

I've heard this rant from you on many occassions, but it all comes down to this: When you have to adapt your "game" to appeal to wider audiences you fail to see that the masses are fucking morons.

Plus, you really make it a point to make it sound like the underground is a bad place to be. Why?

I'm curious. So if someone makes an album underground and doesn't want the masses to get ahold of it, does that make that person a failure in your eyes, Night Phoenix?

I don't know about other people's motivations, but I'm in this game for two main reasons:

1. To be heard by as many people as possible.
2. To make money.

The underground is the antithesis to this.

I hear a lot of these underground emcees whine and moan about how the cats who are out there in the game suck and aren't 'real hip-hop' and I just laugh. When I listen to these underground niggas and then I listen to more commercial niggas, the difference is night and day - underground emcees just don't have the proper sound to make it.

I want you people to think for a second...

Give Immortal Technique the same promotional budget as say.....Young Joc and see who is more successful.

Immortal Technique makes music that only appeals to a small amount of people. Furthermore, this nigga's songmaking ability is pathetic. In short, the nigga simply isn't pleasant to listen to for most people.

Music is a business. I don't have time to play around and see how many multisyllablic rhyme schemes I can put together. I'm out to make music that people will enjoy and are willing to purchase. Most of these cats in the underground are just playing around. If they were serious, they'd stop making that bullshit.

no. not really.
theyre just aiming for a different market; one that isnt mainly 12 year old girls.
it IS possible to make money on an independent label.

yes, music is a business. but to some people its more than a business. apparently you cant understand this.

I remember a time when people made music because it was about the music. Hip-hop became the cash-whore that it is because of cats like you, plain and simple. It's a business, yes; but it doesn't make it a soul-swap meet.

I mean, did it ever occur to you that maybe personal integrity and making music for the few fans that they have was more important to an artist than peddling monotonous styles to the masses because "yo braoh... dats what dem niggas wanna hear."?

Your dislike of Immortal Technique, well, that's your thing I guess. But to the rest of us who actually dig his music he seemed to manage his messages with his beats just fine. But that's just me.

No shit. Talk to Percy Miller, Baby and Slim Williams, and Micheal Watts.

I understand it better than anyone on this board ever will.

Who the fuck do you think you're talking to? I've poured more time and money into this shit than you can even fathom. I haven't sold my soul for shit. I live, breathe, sleep, and eat music. I am, however, about making music that people want to listen to. I'm about making quality music that stands up against anything on the radio right now but is still lyrically creative. I am of the belief that you can still produce commercially-viable music without dumbing yourself down and the success me and my labelmates are having with a major label at this very moment is proof of it.

Getting money with this music shit isn't selling your soul and I'm insulted that you would insinuate that is is.

And yet, the artists who you quote as having this pontifical lyrical prowess can't stop rapping about woodgrain, spinners and premium gasoline.

Yes, because an artist is completely defined by the single the label decides to release.

The label releases singles which they think are marketable, yes. I mean, you're all here to make money, right? You said so yourself.

However, they are defined by what songs they write. Now, call me crazy here but, when the lobotomized subject material is "what dem niggas wanna hear" that's exactly what the artists write and that's exactly what the label is going to put out.

But maybe, just maybe, there's a tiny little group of people who are tired of the mainstream for this reason and thus have turned to far more intelligent wit, song writing and unique beat producing.

Guess which group I'm in?

All I'm saying is.....for every "24s" there's a "Still Ain't Forgave Myself." For every "Turn It Up" there's a "Think I'm Crazy." For every "Hot In Herre" there's a "N Dey Say".

You seem to have it in your mind that because mainstream artists write about cars, bitches, clothes, etc. for their singles that they are incapable or unwilling to write about other subjects and that's simply not true.

You can't judge an artist solely on his singles.

"Still Ain't Forgave Myself" is a pretty good song on the lyrics side, I'll admit. "Think I'm Crazy" is a bit different subject matter but still a pretty good song as well. Still, that still doesn't deter the fact that there are plenty more underground artists who can convey a human feeling far better than any of your acquaintances.

You want proof? Go listen to The Coup again. I'm sure you've heard them and I'm sure you think they're whack, but I'll never forget the first time I heard "Me and Jesus The Pimp In a '79 Granada".

And you know what the kicker is? They didn't have to sell out for me to hear that single.

I'm willing to agree to disagree. When I listen to 95 percent of the underground, regardless of what they're talking about, I feel completely unmoved. I take into account the entire performance. Sure, there are some gems here and there, but by and large, the whole 'underground artists can convey a human feeling better' is iffy at best to me.

Simply put, I feel that if you put any of your favorite underground artists up against any current mainstream artist on an equal playing field (media exposure, marketing budgets, no. of units shipped first week, etc.) that the underground artists simply wouldn't measure up based on the strength of their music.

Fair enough to me, I guess. But I still think that the audiences have a lot more to do with it than anything. If the audiences had good taste in music we'd both be singing completely different tunes.

You obviously equate Talent with mainstream success according to you're above paragraph and this paragraph shows everything wrong with the rap game these days. You can't properly gauge the talent of an underground artist and a mainstream one when you're plan for comparison is using commercial success as the record market in regards to rap is run by white teenage suburbanites who know jackshit about music besides what MTV or BET feeds them is basically the rap equivilent of the EuroPop Top 40.


I know plenty of rappers who purposely don't want to make it big because of this scenario and i don't disagree with them. Nearly every artist that is currently big nowadays has flushed his integrity down the drain and turned his music into Rap-Pop so he can take whitey's son's money and get rich which in my opinion is the antithesis for making music in the first place. The Quest for never-ending wealth is what killed the music industry as well as the rap game and it seems you're part of this problem.


There is a reason the Underground exists, it provides rappers with the outlet to provide music to a crowd who actually appreciate music for it's message and unique approach on beat making and not just because they can shake their ass to it or because it's " popular ". Many Rappers stay within the underground because of the sense of community and camaraderie it provides among the fan's and artists; something that is not found and has been lost in the mainstream for years.

Many Underground rappers would put any of the mainstream ones to shame but they refuse to do so as to them admiration and respect for thier purpose is far more important then making a few million bucks and gaining a few hundred thousand fan's who's sole reason for being a fan is because the artist in question is the " In " thing. A rapper who puts more importance on his message then making it big is far more respectable then an artist who is in it for the money.

You probably one of those cat's who think T.I " King" is the dopest album of 06 so far, don't ya?

I think Tech said it best,

See your stuck in the fact that you see rap as a chance to make money and get your voice heard and then payed.

NOW, Rap was ALWAYS meant for self expression, Not expression of how I got head last night. Seriously, Immortal and MF Doom have something to say, There not selling them selves as a product to make money. They're selling them selves as a person. Saying they don't make hot songs becuase they want to touch on a topic is basically saying using an art and using it correctly is wrong.

Your basing your whole opinion on the sole fact of making money, Making money wise YES, Your right about everything your saying. The Essence of Emcee'ing wise your totally wrong. I guess the hip hop world would much rather listen to expressionless getting grillz style of music then actually take time and listen to the song for what it is.

I equate talent based on what sounds good. Most underground music sounds like total garbage.

Not the dopest, but one of the top three hip-hop albums this year, for sure. Of course, you disagree since you think that anyone who can sell records to a lot of people somehow sucks and is a sell out.

You can throw at me all this nonsense about integrity, but it's all bullshit. You don't have to be a sellout to make music that is marketable.

Well, that´s your opinion. Personally I can say that I pretty much only enjoy alternative and "underground" (I don´t really like that term btw) hip-hop. I can´t stand most of the flashy commercial beats and I don´t like what most of the "money-making" rappers are talking about.

I agree, saying someone is a "sellout" because his/her music is marketable is pretty much nonsense - no matter what genre of music we are talking about. But you have to actually want to make marketable music as well!

You are talking about bad rhyme and beats in underground hip-hop - well that´s all pretty much subjective - but if, for example, Immortal Technique had the hippest beats and the most marketable rap-style ever, I think there would still be problems with the mass market as his music deals with themes that just don´t work in clubs with da hoes in d4 h0us3..

Did i ever mention " selling-out"? No. I Simply stated that if you're main purpose for making music is to inflate your bank account to astronomical proportionals, then you most likely aren't making music for the sole purpose to make music and express yourself; which is definetely true.

I Enjoy music for what it is and not how many albums it sold or money it put into someones pocket, I look for substance in music; something that is extremely lacking in Commercial Rap these days. T.I's " King " i used as an example as the album has only about 4-5 awesome tracks and the rest of it is recycled and rehased garbage.

IF you enter the game with the main purpose of wanting to strike it rich, you should be taken out back, nigga stomped and never be allowed to touch a Mic again. This is the main problem with the game today, the people who are big in the market, they're entire catalogue is simplified beats made for clubs who are attended by people who couldn't differenate a musical note if they're life depended on it and their sole purpose for rapping is making exoborant amounts of money on " booty music ". Rap went from making an artistic statment about the world to taking whitey's money by providing him with a " fictional ghetto life through Cd and simple beats. "

remember, the rap game started on the fact that lyrical delivery was key and beats were only an afterthought, nowadays the reverse is true where beat's are key and lyrical delivery only comes second. The fact that the entire argument on hand is based on petty squabbles about how this rapper sucks because his's beats aren't good on a dance floor. Everyone needs to pull their heads out of their asses espically you NP and remember what Rap/hip-hop roots originated from.

NP, can you honestly tell me T.I. (and whoever the hell else is making these "hot" tracks) has any lyrical talent at all?

I don't know what you mean by this. I don't think subject matter is really an issue. If someone raps about getting head and they have a good delivery and creative lyrics, who gives a fuck.

I agree about the pathetic state of most popular rap music these days, but at the same time the other side of the argument are often exclusionist assholes. Yes, Kanye is a useless douche. That doesn't mean that all good rap music carries some deeply implanted statement about society. The underground scene needs to lighten up, and the pop/rap combos currently on the airwaves need to focus more on their music and less on the frivolities.

Yes, of course, what the fuck? T.I. is one of the sickest in the game with it.

Sometimes I wonder if you do this just to spite us or you're actually autistic.

See, this is the kind of shit that pisses me off.

Why do I gotta have some kind of sinister motivations or be some kind of retard to think T.I. is one of the best emcees spitting right now?

You don't like T.I., obviously. OH FUCKING WELL. What I eat doesn't make you shit.

Yeah, but since you lack of sense of smell, you can't notice that your shit stank up the joint.

HAHAHA! This shit is funny. I don't even see a point to even comparing the two anymore. Mainstream has it's own style and appeals to a bigger amount of people. Most people go to clubs and parties to have a good time not to judge people lyrics. If it sounds good and you can dance to it then it's a hit. Simple as that. This very reason it's what makes it such a big money maker.

Underground has it's own style too and although it apeals to a large number of people it's not even even close to the amount of people that listen to mainstream. It has lyrical values as well as creative beats and that's the main focus of it.

I don't even like mainstream...at all...but to say that either is pure shit is ignorant. People listen to what they like and that's all there is to it.

Also this whole crap about HioHop is dead. HipHop isn't dead...it just evolves.
It's evolved into 2 whole different genres from what I can see.

This coming from a person with AESOP ROCK in his signature.

Aesop Rock holds far more integrity as a lyricist and artist than half of the tripe you panhandle for so religiously, so spare me the lobotomy.

Aesop Rock holds far more integrity as an emcee who can chain together sixteen syllable words endlessly and yet say not A GODDAMN THING AT ALL.

You're so right. This is much better.

Thanks for making my eyes bleed, Capo. Those lyrics were brilliant! :tpg:

Weapon has a valid point, Everyone likes there own music.

BUT to say Aesop is pointless shows that you don't understand his lyrics. I just read the qoute in the sig and I have to say it's quite a feat among lyricists:

That right there is COMPLEX as fuck, That Makes T.I. look like a down syndrome baby. BUT like Weapon said everyone has there own style of music, But to say Aesop Rock is pointless shows you don't understand what he's saying.

Capo, is that seriously a song? I'm scared to even listen to it... :(

You guys got some serious hate in your blood. Granted, "What You Know" isn't the most lyrical song in existence, that track is a bonafide banger.

Oh, I understand his lyrics just fine - they're just so needlessly abstract that I don't find them enjoyable to listen to.

You see, your ability to absorb the lyrics is directly proportional to understand why they're so abstract. If you don't find them enjoyable to listen to on THAT premise, then there's a fatal flaw in your personality.

Now, if I may be allowed a small nod to Aesop with a lyrical pun:

You got me fucked up, kid. I don't like people who spit lyrics like that. I hear them, I understand them, but I don't find it particularly enjoyable. T.I. could spit the same shit and I'd be like "....This nigga is trippin'..."

Somehow I get the feeling that your homeslice lacks the opposable thumbs to write lyrics like Aesop, but whatever.

Dawg, you're crazy. T.I. shits on Aesop as a lyricist.

OK OK. My logic revealed its flaws with that final piercing statement. You win. Here's a platinum grill for you.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...TINUMGRILL.jpg

WEAR IT PROUDLY.

I don't like grills very much, actually.

T.I. is the simplest of lyricists. T.I. knows nothing of the concepts in hip hop and if he does, He only knows the basics of rapping. I don't know if it's just me but any song i've heard of his he can barely keep his flow going and he can barely keep his overall interest level in anyone's attention. His hook's are terrible and his whole style is just made to sell.

Aesop, Shits all over T.I. he has it all the amazing complexity to the flow and everything I think your basing your opinions on him becuase of the beats. Fuck the beats, He's amazing with lyrics and how whole style is original.

Saying T.I. is a better lyricist clearly shows you lack the knowledge to understand the priciples and concepts of hip hop. ALTHOUGH it's ok to like T.I. better based on whatever you feel you like about him, But saying he's a better lyricist is just plain stupid.

#1 on the Billboard Hot 100. Sup America?

Have you ever even LISTENED to a T.I. album?

I mean, I can only laugh when I read your post. I can't even take you seriously anymore. Aesop Rock is a fucking horrible emcee. Yeah, he's got some nice rhyme schemes and shit, but his delivery, flow, mic presence, production, and overall charisma and swagger are fucking pathetic.

Don't you dare try and pull this 'you don't understand the concepts of hip-hop' bullshit if you have the audacity to sit here and tell me Aesop Rock is better than T.I. in any aspect of the art.

No he is, I admit his delivery isn't the best but he's still better then T.I. Way better then T.I. And yes i've listened to my fair share of T.I. tracks and he's terrible.

I guess it's all based on what you value in an emcee.

Me, I like someone who has the total package - they got the lyrics, the delivery, the flow, the mic presence, and the swagger. T.I., to me, has all of these qualities. He isn't the greatest technical lyricist (i.e. crazy multisyllablic rhyme schemes), but he isn't simple either.

Aesop Rock, on the other hand, has crazy schemes and some tight track concepts, but I just can't get into his music. It's not always about what you say, but how you say it. Aesop Rock is one of those cats to me that has the lyrics, but not the other qualities necessary to make him listenable to a wide audience.

You know, I can only laught at your post as well. However, like you said, we can agree to disagree. I have already shut the fuck up; the question is: CAN YOU? :eyebrow:

Did it look like I was talking to you, bitch nigga? No. Resume shutting the fuck up.

so reading through this fucking thread got me so worked up that I had to make an account for the first time since the forum went down.

In short though I pretty much agree with Night Phoenix. Actually, make that I completely agree with Night Phoenix. I have no patience for a lot of the self-consciously "underground" rappers who go out of their way to stick to their underground aesthetic, which is often an especially ugly aesthetic. As such I have no intention of listening to their music. I could do a lot of ranting, trust me, a LOT of ranting on the subject but it's well-worn ground by now.

What I will say is that, especially in the last half or so of this topic, there's been absolutely no acceptance of any middle ground. I mean, I swear that posters like Encephalon and Capo are giving the impression that they think (say) AZ - AWOL is a shitty album, presumably on the grounds that it's actually listenable. What this thread should be, rather than just a chance for the anti-commercial kids and the anti-undie kids to flame one another, is a chance to introduce both people who only listen to the deep underground and people who only listen to the Billboard 100 to that rare middle-ground shit that has the beats, the lyrical content, the lyrical complexity, the wit, the flow, the swagger, in short the whole fucking thing. and a chance for people who already listen to a broad range of hip-hop to hear about more good artists they oughta be listening to. because if real hip-hop, you know, that Paid In Full, Illmatic, Daily Operation sorta shit still survives that's where it is.

with that in mind I'd like to second whoever said J-Live; dude's incredible. Smif 'n' Wessun? Blackalicious? Ghostface? GZA? Beanie Sigel? the Perceptionists? these all released strong traditional hip-hop albums in the past year or so... hell, if you're willing to step outside your comfort zone a little, be prepared to ignore subject matter and just appreciate what's being done with voice and rhythm and words (not to mention beats) people might even find something to appreciate in TI, Young Jeezy, Lil Wayne, and so forth.

oh yeah, Night Phoenix, what you've said in this thread quite frankly makes me want to hear your shit. I looked at the link in your journal and listened to the songs there but I kinda feel that those probably aren't representative of your solo stuff. But hell, I don't know.

sorry for the wall of text here.

Aes can rhyme like there's no tomorrow. His lyrics are complex and well thought with meaning. I can go days prasing his lyrical talent but I know there isn't a fucking chance he's going to apeal to a wide audience. I can understand why most people would listen to him and say "WTF is this?". The man is like the fucking Riddler. Most people don't need that shit and listen to music for enjoyment, not to listen to something you need to break the fucking Da Vinci Code to understand. I love this shit but I know he's not going anywhere aside from this also...

About T.I....
I couldn't agree more. While I might not listen to T.I. for the fact that I just don't listen to that style of music...as a matter of fact I can't stand it but, I UNDERSTAND why it's such a marketable style. The man might not be saying much by other peoples standards (underground heads) but he knows what his people likes. He knows what he likes and the man delivers in a way that the people like.

People shit on your music and you will shit back on to theirs.

**********************
On another note...I think Aes should get back with L-Dub. Blockhead is cool but his shit gets a bit boring after a while. Encephalon, I'm guessing you have heard the "One Hundred" album by the Controls. Fuck I loved that album. Also till this day Apple Seed is STILL my fav album of his.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weapon On another note...I think Aes should get back with L-Dub. Blockhead is cool but his shit gets a bit boring after a while. Encephalon, I'm guessing you have heard the "One Hundred" album by the Controls. Fuck I loved that album. Also till this day Apple Seed is STILL my fav album of his.

<3

Appleseed is actually my 2nd favorite of Aesop's albums following closely on the heels of Float. That whole production was definitely the most well-hashed even though it was relatively low on "production". I still consider Float to be a superior album. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix Resume shutting the fuck up.

You've bought dizzy
But I can't keep myself busy enough
So you can run, run, run
And I'ma let you think you won

For me is the other way around. Float is a close second to my fav album.
Still though...have you heard him on the "Controls" album?
I only ask cause till this day I have meet some people that love Aes but never heard of his tracks with Controls.

If not check this out...

http://www.dub-l.com/the%20controls.htm

Hey....rap is no longer my fav genre, but I must speak about a certain CD I came across recently....I know I'm late but MF DOOM's King Geedorah CD is teh shizz.

http://xs201.xs.to/xs201/06236/2981882789.jpg

Fastlane, Monster Zero, No snakes alive and The Fine Print are some dam fine rap tunes.

Anyone else hip to this CD? If not, give it a listen, you won't be sorry.

http://xs201.xs.to/xs201/06236/10.jpg

I can't say much about T.I, the only songs of his I've heard are Rubberband Man, Bring em Out, What You Know? and maybe a few others. He's all right, I don't hate him but he's not my favorite.

Right now, I'm liking Tech N9NE a lot. The Roots and Binary Star are another two I want to get into; I haven't heard much of them but what I have heard was awesome. I also can't wait for Jurassic 5's new album, which I believe is being released July 25th.

There's also a local group called the Blue Scholars I like, which I doubt any of you have ever heard of unless you live in Washington.

Blue Scholars isn't that hard to find. I've seen their record around on a couple college radio playlists, and I live in central Canada. I haven't heard anything of theirs, but they've gone past a local act I think.

Yeah, I knew they went past local, but I believe that was very recently, and I'd never met anyone outside of WA who's heard of them.

I'm a HUGE Binary Star fan, BUT the only problem with Binary Star is they split up awhile ago. There first two CD's are available free for download. Jurassic 5 is pretty sick too.

Double Post:
I've heard some tracks off this CD and it's pretty sick from what i've heard. MF Doom is definatly an underground favourite in my opinion.

In other news - I just listened to the new Field Mob album, Lightpoles & Pine Trees, and that album is hot as hell. Of course, with these guys being part of Ludacris' label, Disturbing the Peace, it's got commercial-type tracks on it, but these guys are lyrical as hell. If you like punchilnes, they got 'em. If you like concepts, they got 'em. Standout tracks to me are "My Wheels", "Smile", "Blacker The Berry", and "At the Park."

I'm not much of a hip hop/rap fan, but a cursory perusal pretty much confirms previous conclusions that have been made here, primarily that: a) "alt" or "indie" hip hop is generally more concerned with lyrical complexity and envelope-pushing production and b) Mainstream hip hop is generally concerned with image, appealing to the masses, and monetary aquisition.

There's a deep earthen casm - or all-emcompassing rift of n-dimensional space-time if you will - that seperates me from the realm of the Surface Dwellers. We're both cool with the notion, though. I could go on about how mainstream music typically is devoid of creativity and innovation (views that I personally hold) but I'm realizing more and more that maybe that's not the primary objective in the first place. I've learned that one does not always listen to music to be challenged - to be taken to the ever-stretching boundaries of composed and improvised music. Sometimes it is appropriate just to shut your brain off and shake yo' a$$ - something that I'm not sure I'm capable of doing.

With all that said I tend to believe that a lot of hip hop - the "underground" stuff I mean - suffers from a lot of the "Inside the Box" thinking that makes mainstream music so unappealing to me. With a few exceptions they pretty much all start running together and becoming indistinguishable after a short while. I'll also have to agree somewhat with the guy who said he preferred VGM hip hop over "actual" hip hop. I'll admit that musically, some of the best hip hop I've come across have been that which has appeared on soundtracks (as well as non hip hop artists who happen to take the style and do pretty interesting things with it). All in all - listen to what moves you and all will be right with the world.

One Be Lo (of binary star) is still doing his thing.

http://www.onebelo.com/

Anyone have the new Cannibal Ox album? Is not for sale here in Australia ;_;
I've only heard 1 track but thats shit was sick!

Sure thing. I posted The Cold Vein in the Music Exposure Club. You can find it here.

You can find a good chunk of good hip hop in there as well. I suggest you nab The Coup as well as that Ozomatli joint. You might like them.;)

Heh. Curse OV Dialect is pretty interesting. Dalek, music-wise at least, can keep my attention for a decent period of time. Alias and Busdriver are also of particular note. I mainly go for the instrumental stuff, though (Prefuse 73, Nobody, Fat Jon, Nujabes, Daedelus, Dabrye, etc).

Sorry man...what I meant what THIS album:

Return of the Ox - Live at CMJ

1. Can Ox Medley
2. Battle For Asgard
3. Mighty Joseph Medley
4. Cip One
5. Believe
6. Who's That Drunk Dude
7. Taboo
8. Vein
9. Stay Up
10. Raspberry Fields
11. AK-47
12. Cold Vein
13. From The Planet of Eat (Produced by El-P)

Check out one of the tracks @ http://www.definitivejux.net/jukies/...x/discography/

Meh...I guess nobody has it =/

I have that too, actually. I'll upload that later on tonight for you. ;)

:D

Thanks man! Much appreciated! Been a while I've listen to anything new from them. Hey did you ever get the chance to check out that "Coward of the Year" CONTROLS album mp3 with Aesop Rock?

Getting back to independent hip hop. There's a lot of dope crews out that are not signed major and still brings it.

I was wondering how long it would be before some mod took that down I have to say, that was pretty quick.

Anyway since J-Live was mentioned recently I figured I'd post this up. Funny thing is when I saw the video I knew the song was familliar until the end when I saw the album title and I realized I actually had it! Oh happy days

Puppet Master.

Rap I can still admit to having talent, and a lot of it, even though I hate the sound of the genre as a whole. There's a few exceptions, songs that I do actually like, but a very select few. The talent is pretty much all in underground bands though.

Hip-Hop is just some stupid, 3 second repeated beat throughout the entire song, with really shitty lyrics sung by a wannabe rapper. Usually the lyrics are heavily repetitive too. No talent. If I wanted to hear the same thing repeated every 3 seconds, I'd rather listen to a Bush speech.

Yeah I know, I came in late to this thread. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

You clearly haven't listened to much hip-hop. Take a peak in the Music Exposure Club and grab the Ozomatli or Nujabes. I think you might just have definitions mixed up though.

Possibly. Most of what I've heard of hip-hop is what I've heard in the dorm, and what I've heard on the radio while channel surfing. I let it stay on a station for about an hour the first time, just to see what the music was like, it didn't get any better with time. Most music is like that - if I don't like it at first, I'll start liking it after awhile. Now I just flip to those stations every now and then, thinking maybe I'll catch a good song, but I never do, it's just insanely repetitive dog shit.

Hell, I even like country now that I've heard a lot of it, something I swore would never be possible.

Rap I've heard a lot more, it's insanely popular here for some reason I can't understand. We have about a 40% hispanic population though, and it seems to be a popular genre among them. I even knew a couple rappers that I had to admit were pretty good. I like the genre a lot more than I used to, but I doubt I'll ever like it enough to listen to it on a regular basis :). My roomate last year had the most disgusting emo music (hawthorne heights....), but some of the most amazing rap music. Weird cross =/. And I like some music from each genre...rap more than emo...but you would figure good taste would spread across the spectrum :).

Hey, that's pretty neato. There's this really great fellow who might enjoy your company.

Why do you always seem to have a problem with me, Encephalon?

What problem? I just figured you could tear our new friend here a new asshole for talking shit about your profession. You're a little jumpy today, aren't you?

I don't get it.

Why would I tear him a new asshole? He's just stating his opinion. He isn't talking shit, he's just saying he doesn't like hip-hop.

Read the last three pages of the thread.

You know, that's actually funny because you came in here spitting flames because we were doing the EXACT SAME THING about YOUR idea of hip-hop.

Well, actually I was kind of talking shit about it. But I really do geniuinely believe hip-hop is talentless, see reasons in previous posts. I don't care if you like it or not, sure, it's another genre of music, I just don't believe it takes much talent to make a hip-hop song.

But like someone else said, it's possible I have my definitions mixed up. I don't listen to either hip-hop or rap enough to really genuinely be able to tell them apart in most situations. Hip-hop I just see as over-simplified rap, in the most basic sense. But maybe it's the other way around, and hip-hop is the genre with the few songs that I actually do like.

Ok then. Let's see you try to make a quality rap album.

I second Capo's proposal. If it's shit-simple, as you seem to believe, you should be able to create a top-notch record with some sort of computer program easily enough.

I can't make a quality rap album.

I was talking about hip-hop.

But I can't make one of those either. A) I can't compose. B) I wouldn't want to if I could.

Stylistically its incredibly simple and boring. I don't find it enjoyable to listen to the same 2 chords played over a couple seconds repeated throughout an entire song with a vocal track overlaid on it. And I don't consider it a very high form of music.

But anyway, I can't sing worth a shit.

I have no compositional abilities, I'll admit that flat out. I can PLAY musical instruments, I'm fairly adept at that. I'm a pretty good Cellist, other instruments I pick up quickly. But I can't compose to save my life.

Some rap songs I actually like. Assuming I don't have my definitions mixed up as I said before.

Something doesn't fit.

Composing a song and listening to it are two completely different things.

I can what the composition of a song is made of. Doesn't mean I can MAKE anything.

Fits just fine.

But who knows. Maybe the stations I get around here just play the shittiest, most simplistic hip-hop they can possibly find.

So, you can't think of two chords, and then repeat them?

Ok, fine, I could do that. But would you consider that hip-hop? From what I've seen, I doubt it.

I don't know, maybe the radio stations in my area just play the shittiest hip-hop they can find. There might be better stuff.

The issue is whether YOU would consider it hip-hop. Again, I recommend browsing the Music Exposure Club so you can broaden you're definition a tad.

Next time I get hooked up on broadband (couple more days maybe?), I'll do exactly that. Any specific bands you want to recommend?

And yes, I'd consider that hip-hop from the songs *I* have heard before. I'd have to find someone else to do the vocals though :). I hurt my own ears when I try to sing.

Done and done.

Will do. I'll report back when I'm done :p.

There's another local rapper I like who goes by the name of Grynch. The only link I know of is this:

...I need more posts to post URLs?

Well, it's a myspace with /grynchmusic at the end.

I've got to say, everytime I lose faith and interest into a genre of music, something in it comes up and surprises me.

I listening to the "5 Sparrows for 2 Cents" album from the Procussions.

It was creative and had some meaningful messages in it.

I approve (b' ')b

I think there is a big diversity within Hip-hop and rap. There's an artistic side and a side where doing what is hip is important.

I tend to find myself listening to the first camp when I listen. A Tribe Called Quest is one of my favorites, as well as Arrested Development, and the Digable Planets. They all are trying to do something a little bit different.

I guess I like the older stuff (and the Digable Planets) cause it's not so superficial.

If you want hilarious rap though, Finland is where to look. It just shouldn't be allowed.

Yarbles, I'm with you on the older stuff. Most of the stuff I listen to is between 1990 and 2001 or something. The Roots are my favorite as well as Pete Rock & CL Smooth. I appreciate the older style versus what's out now. It seems as though the stuff out now sounds like club music.

Yes, everything I see now is just about the Beat that makes you get up and dance which I think is cheap. You might as well just ditch the words and have a Dance Club album.

Of course, the Mainstream stuff usually isn't anything too great. You have to dig deep to the lesser known stuff to get something truly good.

Double Post:
By the way, I thought I'd give a sample of the Procussions (Since I think it's kinda pointless to just tell you guys about them without letting you actually hear them).

Tell me what you guys think of it: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.ph...A5671B015B93D6

Thought I'd toss this thread into the mix

Click Here!

To be honest, I'm not fond of VGM and hip hop mixing. I prefer the two to remain separate. Besides, hip hop is doing well its own beats, why move to VGM? I know the concept has been tried a few times already. I've heard a few songs and I wasn't happy with the results.

I personally like Chrono Trigger's music, but it sounds terrible when mixed with rap.

WTF?! Hasn't anyone here heard the "Game Over" album by Yoshumi?
They had beats from Soul Caliber, Soul Blade, Mario Bros and some others.
He also came out with a second album but it wasn't as good.

The Arsonist had a track where the beat was straigh out from a game...I don't remember the game name though...some pick haired caveman looking character game.

There's a few other tracks by other artist that used VGM as beats...I just cant recall all of then at the moment though.

Ok, back from the dead. I was looking around for real audio samples since they are small and suit me being on dialup for the summer =/.

I could only find them for Ozomatli, but you've proved me wrong there. I don't know what the heck it was I was listening to before, but if this is hip-hop, I actually LIKE it. It doesn't sound like some shitty, over-simplified offshoot of rap.

This is odd because I was going in with a predisposition (I'll admit this) that I wouldn't like it, and the "hip-hop" I've heard before I hated, so I wasn't expecting I'd like the music right off the bat.

Sweet stuff.

I was browsing around on GFF and I'm like....oh yeah. I was supposed to check out a couple hip-hop groups, lol.

So I have finaly listened to the new DJ Shadow album...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Outsider_%28album%29

Is anyone else as disapointed as I am? The album was as if it wasn't Shadow at all. After the 1st track I noticed myself skipping through all the songs and before I knew it...I skipped through the whole album. I was sure I would at least find a track or two I would like but no....nothing...

I guess every artist has to move on with their sound sooner or later. I'll see what I think once I hear the album. "Endtroducing" is a classic and "The Private Press" was pretty damn good. I also loved his earlier work with Solesides (Quannum).

Anyway, this is the Hip Hop/Rap thread right? I've only been listening to Deltron 3030, Latyrx, Lyrics Born's solo albums, early Gravediggaz and early Outkast lately. Oh yeah, also R.A. the Rugged Man and some Organized Konfusion.

I've also been listening to tons of Kid Koala, although he isn't really "Hip Hop" but moreso experimental/electronica like Dj Shadow.

I sincerely hope the trend doesn't gain momentum. I still don't like the idea of VGM and hip hop mixing.

It can be done in a good way. Anyways considering the Yoshumi album is about 5 years old I don't think it has gained any momentum at all.

isnt today like the day (10 years ago) that tupac got shot?
Rest in peace.

Something like that. It never ceases to amaze me how him and Biggie Smalls being dead so long are more famous now than when they were alive.

And the Winner Is....!! Ya seee??
 

And so. Three great albums (and I'm not talking Lil Wayne >.> ) were leaked/released. I'm talking about:

Jay-Z - Kingdom Come: He comes back over and over but in this album, he doesn't disappoint. While some of the producers's beats were a bit so-so, Will-I-Am, Just Blaze,Kanye West and his lyrics make up for the damage. Also, His closing song "Beach Chair" (I think it was this one) and produced by Chris Martin was one of the best Jay-Z closing songs in a album since Reasonable Doubt's Regrets. I'm a man of fairness. With a few flaws, he deserves :

3.5 out of 5 mics

The Game - Doctor's Advocate: A rapper who started out clean. A rapper who had beef with G-Unit. He was disliked by fans who dick-rided 50 cent's overrated album. He's the one who took down G-Unit little by little and finally he creates a Masterpiece. Doctor's Advocate was leaked like a week or two before the retail release. I had my doubts til I saw a list of new producers and returning ones such as Kanye,Dre,Hi-Tek,Just Blaze and Swizz Beats (woo!). Game ripped each and every track and made beats look alive. He definately took his time with this album. Another great track was the closing song "Why you hate the Game?" by himself,Marsha and Nas. And believe that it's produced by Just Blaze. Simply his best album of all time.

4 out of 5 mics

Nas - Hip Hop Is Dead: For those who thought that Nas died. Think-the-fuck- again >=p. Many hardcore Nas fans thought his album was going to fall but were wrong and proud of what he gave us. I don't hear any Nas Haters talkin shit about it :biggrin: . Nas chose a good line up of producers. I'll be honest, After a shitload of albums and Lost Tapes he made back then, I didn't think he would come back or even have enough to say on the mic but I was wrong yet again ^^;. He goes soft in his first verse in a few tracks then rips the hell out of it in the mid to the end of the songs. I still love his music. My only shock in this album is Premier's work was not present. I guess I can say that Nas wanted changes or some shit. If Premo was in it, I'd give the album a full score , however, I get the feeling Premo will give him a beat to fill in that Acapella track in his album. The Closing songs (Im not going to include Acapella) beat both Jay-Z's and Game's track. If anyone hasn't heard it yet, Listen to it now. You get drawn to it. Thanks to Will-I-Am again for the beat.

4.5 out of 5 mics

Winner - Nasir "Nas" Jones

Hip-Hop 2k6 closes with Nas' album and I hope to God we get more. For those who don't know, "The N" track was not in his album. Any comments about their albums?

Yeah that Nas album is pretty good. At first i was a little disappointed, but after i listened to it again and paid more attention to the lyrics i started to like it.

One of the Year's best albums along with Ghostface Killa - Fishscale and The Roots - Game Theory.

Did you listen to Ghostface's "More Fish" Album? I heard it wasn't good at all. Styles P's album was alright.

I also heard a few things such as "Why you hate the Game" track was supposed to be in Nas' album. That and "The N" track wasn't in it either.

I heard More Fish and it's not bad at all. Most of it it's very Raw. The only problem that i have with More Fish is that there are like 4 songs where ghostface doesn't rap. 2 of those songs are Shawn Wigs songs and i don't like him at all. The other track is by Trife and Sun God and there is also a Trife Solo track. I like Trife so i got no problem with that. More Fish is almost like a Theodore Unit mixtape but it has some great tracks.

Just listend to most of the tracks in the more fish album. It could've been better but it didn't suck either.

Speakin of which. Nas and Cormega squashed their beef by showing proof to the whole world at his concert a few days ago. Nas bought him and Foxy Brown to do Affirmative Action. No Az or Nature though..

The Game's "California Vacation" is the best mainstream rap song to be released in a while, mainly due to it's similarities to Dr. Dre's 2001. The Game's CD is even called Doctor's Advocate. Go Figure. But Jedi Mind Tricks and other smaller acts like Hieruspecs make rap worthwhile still.

New cd from Talib Kweli entirely produced by the one and only Madlib. They decided to release this for FREE as a New Year's gift for all their fans. Enjoy.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...2001/kweli.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...001/madlib.jpg

http://myspace.com/talibkweli

9 tracks only? Anyway the album was alright. Need to listen to it a second time ^^;.

Speakin of which, You do know who Skyzoo is , right? He dropped this sick track. And would you believe it, it's Premo!

He ripped the whole thing but damn the last verse was just Perfect. That's Real Hip Hop. ahh and Torae is in it as well. Dunno who he is.. But he has my respect.

This a HopHopGame version so we'll have to wait for a better one later.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/t9kv3a

I don't know that much about Skyzoo, all i know is that he dropped an album last year and that it was produced by 9th wonder. I heard it and it was pretty good.

BUt this track by Premier, damn... it's great!

Skyzoo is kinda underground but he has potential. More than enough to have even Premo work with him.

I know you saw this vid the other day. Its the best of 2007

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRA4_JhO4A

He got layed down alright LOL. It took his ass 3 seconds to fall down.

*reviving thread*

Hey did anyone check out that new Kanye West video? Check it out...Lots of Akira reference. They did say that Kanye was working with some bands in Tokyo but this one is pretty awesome. Sept 11 will feature a remix with Jay-z. Hopefuly we'll see Kanye turn into a Blob =].

KANYE WEST | STRONGER

Yeah, he's a fan of Tetsuo Shima. Great.

So uh 50cents Curtis is out and so is Kanye Wests Graduation.
Curtis is much better then The Massacre but 50 still can't (and probably won't) top Get rich or die trying. There are some great beats, Fire (produced by Dre) is off the freaking chain and I must admit Ayo technology got me hooked.

On the other hand Graduation is a step down from Late registration. In no way is it bad, it's just that Late Registration was really good and had a couple of smash tracks and it's just hard to do another one that can get to that level. Graduation is a lot slower CD, with mellow beats and overall slower rapping. No skits either which is kinda of a nice change.

Kanye West is awful, why are we kidding ourselves?

Listened to both Kanye's and 50's new albums. Not sure which is better since 50's is gangsta rap while Kanye's is more mellow hip-hop. Although both are great imo and 50's is much better then massacre which sucked. Kanye's is better then his last one I think but it only has 13 tracks which kind of sucks.

I'm liking both albums a lot, maybe 50 Cent's more than Kanye's which is a surprise for me since I've never really liked 50 Cent; but Curtis has got some tracks that just have me hooked. And yes, "Fire" <3. But Talib Kweli's Ear Drum is still the best release of the last couple weeks.

Man I'm really loving My Gun from 50's new album. My favorite song on there by far.

He has like 2 other great tracks. Flashing Lights which is pretty interesting. You need to see Beats Kingz 2k7. Kanye goes Emo in that 1hour vid ;p.


And of course you have "Everything I am".For those who are really into the hip hop music(beats-wise), If anyone doesn't know who does the scratches, You have issues >=p.

yeah Flashing Lights has my favorite beat off the album.

So uh...any for the new Pharoahe Monch album?

Eminem is just a master man, listened to Peep show on the buss yesterday, and i busted out laughing when he said "let me shit on your chest, the pee comes out just guzzle it down guzzle it down". Hall of fame lyrics right there.

THANK YOU.

I read they sampled some Can on Graduation, so I downloaded it...ugh, right to the recycle bin.

Kanye West isn't a horrible emcee, per se, but the one thing that's always bothered me about him is how he basically rode on the coattails of a far superior emcee and songwriters (Common) until he got signed and is now considered "Chicago's finest".

Naw, nigga. Common is STILL Chicago's finest whether you want to admit it or not.

As for 50 Cent's new album one lyric on one of the cuts sums up the whole essence of his "works": "I'm laughin' strait to da bank wit this". :tpg:

Kanye west is like a balance. He goes up and down every album. He's alright though in my book.

YouTube Video

Someone mixed this and the akira clips. Well made!

Hey is anyone up on Termanology? Another underrated mc.

YouTube Video

He's been around before. Primo and alot of other known artists and producers are cosigning with this guy. This vid should be on MTV or BeT..wtf =/.

EDIT: Kinda late but this is the unbiased version of what happened at Havoc's party where Saigon and Prodigy went at it. After this bullshit, I have no respect for Prodigy. He shouldn't promote hav's album. bullshit >.>

Havoc's Party : Saigon and his boy knockin Prodigy the fuck out (unbiased version)

Good thing Hav said "I got no beef with saigon, he's a great artist " but when he added " but mobb deep better", That threw me off. No lie, his album's pretty sick but g-unit and prodigy shouldn't promote his shit. Garbage really..

Bumping this because of

http://ambush.files.wordpress.com/20...-cover-art.jpg

They are back! The album kinda continues with the dark and heavy beats AND lyrics! It just sounds meaner... at least the first half. The beats gradually become easier and softer and the dark synths dont jump right at you. The lyrics are pretty much spot-on and touch on mostly politics but also some other topics in the media today eg the environment. A couple of guest artists, mos def and talib kweli drop in to do their thing, but there are also some new guys. Kweli does some of his finest spitting here imo.

The only thing that's lacking is a big track to end the album on.. Rising up is good and all but it's.. don't know lacks that final punch to end it.

The roots are still fresh baby!

Common's got a new album coming in early July, called Invincible Summer. Anyone else excited?

I am, Agrias. Been on a bit of a trip regarding his past work again, and it's always nice to know talent is coming out with new material. I don't mean to duck tail this with cynicism and snark, but I want to say that I want it to be better than the samples I've heard from "Nigger" by Nas. Someone needs to man up and tell him when his flow is weak.

OVER AND OVER AND OVER! man I dont like the radio today. Also I am not a hater cause I love old school hip hop and I respect anyone doing what they love and making money doing it, but can anyone please explain what is so great about lil wayn?

Well he is "good" compared to many so called rappers today. soldier boy? seriously? seriously?

After listening to Nigger a few times, I still like it but Nas' biggest problem is his beats. He just doesn't have a good ear for them at all. Not anymore at least, not since the mid 90s. I don't know how anyone can say Kanye is awful after listening to "Spaceship" or pretty much all of College Dropout. Say what you will about "Graduation" and to a certain extent "Late Registration" but his debut is still strong to this day.

I agree, Nas' beat selection on his last album was awful. Also, I think his lyrics weren't as good as they once were on his previous outings.

On another note, I've been really enjoying a Halifax artist "Ghettosocks". When I first heard of him I thought he was going to be some sort of stupid artist but I've come to enjoy him. His style reminds me of Kool G Rap's multis with MF Doom's eccentric flavor, his myspace is:
MySpace.com - GHETTOSOCKS! - Halifax, CA - www.myspace.com/ghettosocks

He has a video, "Step to a T-Rex":
YouTube - Ghettosocks - Step To A T-Rex

kanye's pretty dope in my book. Style has to be involved cause I hear how kanye likes to rhyme his words and syllables and he can be quite original at times with it. Nas on the other hand has been around for quite sometime now, so you can't blame a professional recording artist with added stage expirence to fudge up a track or two or ten now and then. (eminem anyone?) 50 cent on the though has just plain messed up. He should've stayed on Shady/Aftermath instead of trying to become a so called buisnessman.

808's and Heartbreak is gonna be tight. I keep playing the tracks that have been released so far over and over. I actually like the autotuner effect, too.

I dont mind the autotune.
Heartless is cool and love lockdown is cool production wise but coldest winter and the new spacesong is garbage.

New master mixes of heartless/lovelockdown here

http://nahright.com/news/2008/11/08/...-more-updates/

I give Kanye props for trying something new though, another good thing is that ladies will love this album so it's good for ass taxing!!

Mann, coldest winter is tight, and I believe the only track about his mother. What is this spacesong you speak of? The only track that's dropped that I find to be garbage is Anyway. It just doesn't do it for me. Robocop is probably one of my top favorites for not being :emo:kanye.

also, he is supposedly pushing the date up to the 16th instead of the original drop date of the 25th

yeah i ment Anyway lol, all those beeps and shit reminds of starwars guns. He has nice flow in it but i dont like the beat or the lyrics. but... damn now that i relistened to it, it has grown on me. And that will probably be the same with the whole album, ill hate it but keep playing it.

Also if you guys havent heard the ColdplayXjay-z mashup mixtape Viva La Hove get it now!!!!
Viva La Hova !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

seriously Mike Boogie mix Jay-z and coldplay together in a way that is so retarded (good retarded) that makes it look like Coldplay make their tracks for Jay-z.
This puts anything else to shame, I dunno how many people that read this thread but if you are glancing at dis shit GO GET IT.

808s and heartbreak is out, and damnit I love it. More hiphop then i expected and it's damn catchy. You have to listen to it in full and not in singles. I dislike some songs, street lights and the last freestyle, but the rest are nice, the beats are made for hiphop and im waiting for a bunch of remixes.
Mad props to Mr. West for trying to step out of his comfort zone.